SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Quick recap-FWW had year long affair in 1998. OBS finds out, and OM ends affair. My DD is 2 weeks later. Go to MC for a year-ends as I realized she loved him, and not sorry about the A, just sorry she got caught and sorry she hurt me. While the marriage survives, it survives so I can raise my kids, not some deep love between us.
Kids leave home, but I stay on. Nice home, good finances-a beautiful gilded cage-but still a cage. I am not a saint, as there were times I would see the love of my life, and think "this is it", only to be disappointed as her coldness would return.
We entered an almost sexless existence for several years, and I was starving for a woman’s love, physically and emotionally. Don’t think I was some puppy dog, I had completely given up on anything with FWW. Dead limbo.
She retired in December, and she suddenly starts making sexual moves on me. First time is WTF? Then a couple of more times. Wow-endorphins go off like crazy. I have slowly opened my self up to her. So far so good.
I asked her why now, and she said she loves me, and missed sex with me. That is an ego boost on both fronts.
A couple of times when making love I asked if I was safe. She says "you’re always safe with me baby."
This has reawakened me good and bad. Long buried feelings are back, along with long buried fears. For instance a call came in from New York-OM home state. I saw it and was suddenly panicked. She picked up her messages, and it was just spam. There has been NC for over 20 years, and I suddenly think he is back-crazy right?

I told her I am looking forward to the future, and am happier than I have been in years. Her reply was "oh, the sex". I told her that was part of it, but what I really wanted was to spend time with her, and us have adventures together.

I love the pre A wife. She is the love of my life. The A and post A wife (for the most part) is a cold bitch I would not give the time of day to. Most days since December, I have the love of my life, and I am re discovering her.

The problem? I want to be the love of her life. I am not sure i am. She does love me. She would say of course I am the love of her life-but I don’t know. Sometimes (a lot) I feel like OM is her love of her life, but since he was gone, she settled for me.

I want her to love me wholly. I want to be loved physically, but more than that, I want to be loved emotionally. I want my faults to be accepted, for her to be proud of me. I am not perfect, but I am a great person, and I deserve for someone (hopefully her) to accept and love that.

Be with me because you want to be with me, not because I am your default choice.

How do I ask that? Should I ever ask that? Have I watched too many Hallmark movies?

I have forgiven her for the A, and for loving him. I have forgiven her shitty treatment of me. This is more insecurity than holding it against her.

How do I ask that? Should I ever ask that? Have I watched too many Hallmark movies?

It matters to you, so you should absolutely ask.

And while we humans are far more flawed than our fictional Hallmark movie counterparts, romance (to me) was a huge part of our rebuilding the M.

It sounds like you need to communicate more about how much the A still bothers you. She can't guess the extent of the damage, you have to tell her.

There has been NC for over 20 years, and I suddenly think he is back-crazy right?

Nope. If you never fully processed all the hurt and pain, then there is no way for you to feel good about it -- until you process it. Feel the feels, because it didn't help you at all to bury them.

No one wants to be the last man standing as a reason to stay married. I wouldn't have stayed if that was the case here.

My wife is relentless about communicating how much I mean to her, and I return the favor. The key to our recovery is being able to tell each other ANYTHING and ask about ANYTHING, without hesitation or walking on eggshells about the past. The A is a part of the relationship, so it gets talked about when I need to. Seven years of work, it doesn't happen often, but I take great comfort in not having to pretend I'm okay with what happened.

I wake up every morning and choose my life. Choose my M. Choose my wife. If it changes, it changes and I know exactly where the front door is. For me, after infidelity, the only silver lining is there no trap. It is all my call. My wife has the same choices. She doesn't have to stay either. We choose each other.

I will say, every day we choose the M, it gets a little stronger all the time.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 3:01 PM, Thursday, April 13th]

I'm not sure I can offer much advice. I have been in a similar situation for a long time.. This year marks the 40th anniversary of the day I caught her preparing to go on a date with with some POS who convinced her to go out with him even though he knew perfectly well she was engaged. She was my fiancée at the time. After two and a half years of more lies, deceit and betrayal, we broke up for two years. We did eventually reconcile. But like you, I don't know if I am just the default, or if she really wanted me. Her AP apparently eventually became non caring and mostly ignored her, so she left.

My planned solution is to eventually give her all my writings about how much she hurt me and how horribly she treated me. After I caught her she raved about how great he was while refusing me any intimacy. I've written about all of it. Then I have a list of over 90 questions I have for her. She knows about this and just keeps telling me to give her the questions so we can get it over with. But through my research here on SI and a few years of other reading and research, and educatiing her about betrayal, she does seem to be receptive to working through all this, including the questions.

Only suggestion I can give you. Good luck..

I tend to think that this is "true" for most women, but maybe it's just true for me and I try to generalize it to most women, but here goes:

I want her to love me wholly. I want to be loved physically, but more than that, I want to be loved emotionally.

I think for many women intimacy is communication first. Physical intimacy is often second to that.

I think men would often put these in reverse order. In my (very limited) experience, men are often reassured about the stability of the relationship by physical intimacy first, and emotional intimacy (communication) comes second.

With that said, I think the way to establish what you are looking for is to communicate with your wife. Communicate your fears. Communicate the pain that still reverberates from the affair. Communicate what you love about her. Keep communicating your desire to go on adventures together...and then plan some together.

Many women feel that "relationship currency" is emotional intimacy--vulnerability, deeper conversations, etc.

What you are seeking may well be what she is seeking too.

I told her I am looking forward to the future, and am happier than I have been in years. Her reply was "oh, the sex".

Your answer to her was great. She may have been looking for reassurance that it wasn't "just" the new and improved sex life that was the end-game for you.

[This message edited by BreakingBad at 12:38 PM, Friday, April 14th]

You've been in self imposed limbo for a quarter of a century.

No offense, but your wife might be confused that you are suddenly open to R and it's on the heals of a renewed sex life. You never R'd. You didn't tell her you wanted to reestablish a happy, loving marriage 25 years ago. You stayed for the kids, you say.

Do you tell her you were only staying for the kids at any point? Did you call her a cold bitch to her face?

I think that much time in limbo is bound to build up huge amounts of pent up resentment on both sides. Not some magical rediscovery of true love.

Talk to her. Be vulnerable. Tell her what you want, what you hope for, what you're scared of. What you miss. Ask her what she wants and what her fears are. You DO deserve to be loved and accepted and cherished. So does she. The only way you can get there is by being vulnerable and taking a risk.

GTMI,

You wrote...

She retired in December, and she suddenly starts making sexual moves on me. First time is WTF?

Was she emotionally attached to someone at work or in a quiet long term work affair?

Or did she get news such as the OM died and it ended the vampires spell that he held on her?

The problem? I want to be the love of her life. I am not sure i am. She does love me. She would say of course I am the love of her life-but I don’t know. Sometimes (a lot) I feel like OM is her love of her life, but since he was gone, she settled for me.

It can be difficult to believe we can ever match the emotional, spiritual and physical connectedness our WWs had with the OM after seeing the intensity of the affair.

I want her to love me wholly. I want to be loved physically, but more than that, I want to be loved emotionally. I want my faults to be accepted, for her to be proud of me. I am not perfect, but I am a great person, and I deserve for someone (hopefully her) to accept and love that.

After OM1 I felt my WW had impossible standards for me to meet and the unconditional acceptance she always felt from me was impossible now from her.

We talked about this in another thread of yours, right after your wife restarted the sex and intimacy. I believe the general consensus was what emergent8 is suggesting--be vulnerable. It appeared that you did that, with very good results. I wouldn't recommend changing course.

It does sound like there are still some insecurities running around in your head. Those, unfortunately, are going to be your issues to address.

Ask yourself:

--Do you believe that she is honest with you in all other aspects?
--Do you believe that she enjoys the new connection with you?
--Would you believe her if she said you are her true love? If not, why? That is assuming the answer to the first two questions are a resounding 'yes'.

Bottom line--You can't have the levels of intimacy that you seek with without trust and vulnerability. And both of those have to come from YOU.

I'd say: 'Continue to be vulnerable' instead of 'be vulnerable'. Knowing that the whole connection was more important the the physical connection and sharing that was an act of being vulnerable, IMO, so you've started, also IMO.

Here's the thing: You have to open yourself up to being hurt again, and badly. You can recover from that, if it happens, but if it doesn't (if your W doesn't hurt you badly again), you've got evidence that she does truly love you.

JMO.

I find the timing a little suspicious. She retires,amd suddenly,after years of a dead bedroom, she is wanting sex with you.

What work did she do to become safe?

^^^^This^^^^

The timing of retirement along with suddenly wanting sex feels like she is no longer getting her physical needs met (at work) and you're the one that's now available.

The problem? I want to be the love of her life. I am not sure i am. She does love me. She would say of course I am the love of her life-but I don’t know. Sometimes (a lot) I feel like OM is her love of her life, but since he was gone, she settled for me.

I want her to love me wholly. I want to be loved physically, but more than that, I want to be loved emotionally. I want my faults to be accepted, for her to be proud of me. I am not perfect, but I am a great person, and I deserve for someone (hopefully her) to accept and love that.

I am worried about the "love of my life" phrase, which does sound to me tbh a bit Hallmark. But more importantly, looking behind the phrase, I’m sensing a huge insecurity from way back when which has not been dealt with, and I really encourage you to look inwards for the affirmation you need. Not at her. You are absolutely the prize and I’m hoping she sees that (sounds like she maybe does). I don’t cynically distrust her reignition of a sexual relationship with you the way some others do as I see it as another way of speaking, another language. So I’m hopeful for you. But the coldness you describe feeling from her for so long needs to be reckoned, contended with. For her to explain it. You could simply say, I feel you’ve returned, where have you been?

And crucially for me why did it take retirement for that to happen?

Any big life change, like retirement, can cause a person to reassess where they are and what they want. I think it’s promising that during such a change your wife turned toward you, and that you want, despite the hurt, to turn toward her. Take a risk and be vulnerable, but at the same time build yourself up. This sounds like a good thing. Leaning into it and seeing where it goes sounds like a much better option than continuing with the status quo, which sounds pretty crappy.

[This message edited by Grieving at 12:46 PM, Sunday, April 16th]

The non existent sex and wanting it back maybe menopause related or a change in pace of life if she is retirement age. Have you asked her what has changed for her to want intimacy again? As for the love of your life I think it depends on what she and you think and feel love is. I do not believe in love of your life as I think humans are capable of loving multiple people. It's a chemical reaction and evolution and survival drives us to find a match for breeding. It is not a romantic view but I would urge you to ask whether she believe in love of your life before asking if you are hers. My answer would be no to my WH on the basis I do not believe there is such a thing but has he been the partner I have loved the most and who I loved solely? Yes. You will never fully believe or know her reasons for staying you can only trust her reason

[This message edited by DayDreamBeliever at 4:20 PM, Monday, April 17th]

It is a horrible place to be - wondering. Granted my WH has told me numerous times since the end of the A that he didn't leave me - even when he thought that was maybe what he wanted to do in the midst of the A love and all that - because he never was 100% sure, that he thought he would be making a mistake if he left. That is his reason for not ending it with me after d-day 1, when the A went underground for a year: that he was afraid to make the "wrong decision" and that ultimately when the A blew up a year and a half after d-day 1 and everyone knew, he didn't follow the AP even though she made it very clear she wanted him to. Because he "chose" to stay with me - and he tells me I am the love of his life etc, and I believe he really feels that way...now.

But you know what: being told you were the choice - the prize - isn't much of a prize to me. It's just a different side of the same coin. The fact that he chose to stay with me (or still wants to - we are no longer "together" even though we date - it's casual now for me at least) doesn't make me feel like I have won. It doesn't rekindle all that spark. In fact I have told him as much. The winner here is him - not me. He "won" because I still talk to him at all. I lost a lot even though he still talks to me and wants to be with me. I am still pristine and he is still tarnished and there is nothing that will ever change that - that is part of our story forever no matter where it goes from here. It's part of yours too.

For a time, for both of us - you and me - we were not the sole first choice for our respective WS. We were second, or at "best" co-first choices - in other words we were an option. For a time we were an option, even if we are not now, and that is a reality you cannot change. Wanting that pre-A love back isn't reality - you can never get that back. I'm not saying it can't be as good, or, as others who have successfully R'ed even better possibly - but it will not be the same. It sounds to me like you are still processing that reality - and doing so in a delayed fashion because for years you just pushed all that away because your WS hadn't really "chosen" you in any way that was fulfilling to you.

I would be curious to know what your WS's reason is for this renewed interest all of a sudden, after such a long long time. If she is not open to talking about that it would be cause for my own concern, not necessarily because of some A-related fear, but because you deserve to have some agency over your marriage. Your WS should not get to solely choose when and how you relate to each other and just expect you to stand by and wait: e.g. if she isn't interested in giving attention you must sit and wait until she is, and accept it no questions asked. If someone can be a "cold bitch" for 10-20 years it would be hard for me to trust their behavior for no other reason than they have not shown me they are going to take care of my feelings as you would in a marriage - a long term relationship.

Do not be afraid to ask, because you worry you will "rock the boat" by doing so. This marriage is yours too - you deserve to know where you stand AND to have some control over its path.

I often ask myself this as well. I wish all the time that he had chosen her so that there would actually be a reason for all this shitty heartache. But he stayed and is doing the work and for the most part things are okay except for this gigantic blemish on our marriage for no reason.

My point of view is that the betrayed gets the most pain on so many levels.

Having to come to terms that the person we loved the most lied and cheated is hard enough.

But coming to terms with being relegated to second best in your partner/spouse’s life is devastating.

And then watching the cheater try to make amends is equally painful. Because in your heart you know it will never be the same, no matter how hard the cheater tries to make amends.

My H thought he loved the OW enough to kick me to the curb to be with her. And I’m sure he thinks because he changed his mind at the last minute and realized he didn’t love her at all that it means something.

He didn’t choose me in the end. I chose to reconcile — because it was what I wanted.

Thanks to all who responded.

To answer a big question-why now in retirement-some work affair that ended? She got sent home when COVID began, and never returned to the office-so a PA was not possible after 2/2020. Also, when we began having sex again, she struggled a bit with penetration (use it or lose it). I just don’t think she was fucking anyone.

An EA-while possible, highly unlikely-she had a work computer only, and her phone was monitored by the company.

I think it has to do with the fact she is not under stress anymore. Also, her friends at work became more distant in COVID-so there is only me for company.

Did OM die? God I hope so, and I hope it was long and painful.

On the deeper side-I don’t trust her. I want to, but I don’t. She cut me deeper than anyone ever has.

She loved OM. I was barely in the supporting cast of their great love story. She even brought him into our home and cooked dinner for him and my kids-I guess seeing how he looked at the head of the table. In the fantasy, I was going to step aside and she and OM were going to parent my sons. My six year old told me about mommy’s friend after DD-out of the mouths of babes.

Here is what I would like recognition for:

1. Being the hero to my sons. They think I am their hero, but because I am their Dad. They don’t know, and they will never know, I kept their world from crashing in. (In fairness, W also worked hard on this too.)

2. Being open and fair with our finances. I kept her inheritance separate in her name alone. She has all the passwords to our accounts. She knows exactly what is hers, and what is ours. If she ever decided to leave, she know about what she would get-I have not kept financial secrets from her.

3. I kept the shitty affair a secret. I did not humiliate her on this-very few of our friends know. Most of the ones that did are not in our close friendships anymore.

4. That I fought for her. I could have dropped her, the marriage, everything, but I did not. I could have gone out and fucked a bunch of women when I found out, but I did not. (I eventually gave up on the marriage, as I got so little back).

5. That I owned my shit on the marriage-I was a workaholic, I was mean to her without cause, I was a baby about getting denied sex. I was a selfish and greedy person. And I changed-and it was fucking hard, and I am still working on it.

What I want to ask-just not sure how-

1. Am I the great guy who keeps you warm and safe and dry ( like in the song)- the one you love, but not "the one"? (Even if the answer is yes, I am ok. I kinda feel like the answer is yes to this one.)

2. Why do you come back every once in a while- and the go away again? Where do you go? This one I really want to know. I feel like she is slipping away again and I don’t know why.

3. I love you, and want the real you with me for the rest of my life. I will always be here for you. But I love you enough to let you go, if that is what you want. (Not really a question)

4. When I held you in my arms and told you that I did not just love you, but I was in love with you-you just squeezed my hand tight and did not say anything-what did that mean?

5. What is it with you and sex with me? You say you want spontaneous-and I ask and the answer is no. Then I try to plan, you agree, then back out. Really, what the fuck do you want?

Hurts I still carry-

1. The story above

2. How she hoped OM did not think she betrayed him (yeah, I get the fucking irony)

3. How I was calling what she and OM did fucking to minimize what they had. (Barf)

I am sure this shows up all the time, but I will rant anyway. It is unfair that I have to be the one to be vulnerable to getting hurt. I have to trust her with my heart and ego. Why can’t she go first? I know everyone is right on what I have to do, but it sucks.

Some of you guys might say "I deserve to be with someone who recognizes and appreciates me for the great guy I am.”

But I am still in love with the old her-that is who I want. I should have done a lot of this work years ago, but I was too immature, and so was she.

Thank for any advice-it has been a shitty week, and I am just worn out.

[This message edited by goingtomakeit at 5:37 AM, Saturday, May 13th]

PS- I think I am going to hit the sex and the where do you go questions tomorrow.

If all goes well, maybe ask about #4.

I will ask 1. & 3 a little later this week.

Ok I finally just talked with her, and came away with answers:

1. She said she had affair and she was wrong.
2. OM was nothing-he was just a fantasy
3. I am the one
4. She is mad because I rarely cooked dinner (?) predefined gender stereotypes play into this as our age and society when we were born and lived .
5. She is still hanging me on the cross for being a workaholic post A. I did work a lot (and we are now retired and not yet 60), but I cut back and made time for boys plays, sports, vacations, etc. I called my oldest and asked him, but he says after 6th grade, I got better and was there a lot. He feels like I was there and at home most nights( as how I remember it) (as an aside, son asked if I had cancer-he said this is a I just found out I had cancer question-LOL). She said she would re examine her memory.
6. She said last several years, she was an angry person, and thought I did not love her. I thought the same thing of her-guess we don’t communicate well, and I need to change that on my side.
7. Going to try the EMDR thing-hopefully it will offload the pain I have been carrying around.

I was afraid of some of the answers I would get. And they were ok. I survived it. I did not get hurt. I might in the next round, but this round of tough questions makes me feel like my fears are worse than reality.
I think at 59, I might be a big boy now.