SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all, new info looking for thoughts and feedback. Trigger warning potentially
Quick recap - DD#2 7 months ago, WH inappropriate texting to a long-distance coworker July 23 and also discovered met a different coworker 15 years prior a few times for kissing sessions. DD#1 was also long-distance communication with a classmate 12 years ago. WH doing all the right things, remorseful, IC, etc.

Anyway, of the things he is working on is porn. He has stated he wants to stop looking at porn altogether (not requested from me) because he doesn't like how it makes him think and he gets obsessive (ADHD/OCD diagnosed). We have not been physically intimate at all since July 23. So in part of his transparency efforts, he is letting me know what his habits are in taking care of his sexual needs. He has mentioned listening to stories and reading stories and stated he fantasizes while self-pleasuring and has thought of me during.
Well, today I snooped while he was at work. I've been doing much less of this and making progress with not being so consumed but I still "snoop" about 1x a week and look at his phone 1x a week (this he is aware of).
I found a letter, which he labeled at the top "sexual fantasy letter." I'm not sure if this is something he is working on in therapy but my guess is he wrote out a letter to read back vs. looking at porn. I will spare you the details except what is very triggering for me is it was with a coworker, not a specific name, not even sure if it's a real or fictionalized coworker, but still a coworker! The infidelity was with a coworker so it's very triggering that his fantasy involves work at all.

I'm still on the fence about working things out but have come to a more comfortable "on the fence" place in the last month. I'm doing a LOT of inner work and have some insights I'm going to post on a different thread.

Thoughts, feedback, support?
TIA as always!

His affair was with a coworker, and his sexual fantasy, that he writes about to read while getting off is about a coworker. Real,or not, IMO, that's a huge red flag. If he were truly remorseful, even fantasizing about a coworker should turn his stomach.

This is a tough one. Sexual fantasies are normal. Making a big deal outta this could cause him to never discuss his with you again.

It's also a really shit fantasy for him to have.... and to write down. Let me break what I mean down a little.

A "coworker" - is his imagination handicapped? Did he fixate on a specific porn scene at 13 and never let go? The fantasy itself is about as vanilla as the come. The problem I have with this, is if you're gonna fantasize then fantasize. Add in a hot elf. Make gravity a little lighter. Full. Body. Paint.

If you're gonna fantasize, why hold back?

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I know that doesn't really address how you feel triggered about the letter, but if you follow the line of thought, you'll either divert yourself for at least 5 mins from the annoyance of poorly written smut.

HellFire - Red Flad to me too! Even if it is not a coworker that doesn't actually exist! WTH does it have to be a coworker? Why not like a girl at the gym or elsewhere ya know?! Just fills me with doubts.

Notthevictem - I haven't said anything yet and I don't have a problem with the fantasy except the coworker part because of his history of cheating with coworkers. Also, I'm not going to necessarily judge the contents of the fantasy, I'm fine with plain/vanilla myself so perhaps my imagination is "handicap" myself. I left out the steamy part to spare details and keep it as private as possible. It's the coworker part honestly.

What are the chances he knew you find it?

Well, he has very low executive functioning so his organizational skills are terrible. The letter was not very hidden though, next to the bed he is sleeping in, torn from a notebook, and in a book on top of his mess.
I don't think he knows I have been looking at his stuff occasionally other than his phone so I don't think he like left it to be found. However, he didn't appear to go to great lengths to hide it. Although maybe there are more and this one was misplaced/forgotten. He leaves crap everywhere, like all over the place.

Was it newly written or older?

I think it's fairly recent, like a couple of weeks maybe. But not 100% sure.

This is a sticky wicket. On the one hand, he has a right to his privacy when it comes to sexual fantasies, but on the other, he wrote down this sexual fantasy and didn’t secure it from your eyes. He already knows you snoop in his phone. It shouldn’t be a big shock that you’d snoop in his stuff, too. If it is, he ain’t the brightest star in the sky. (Also, do you have kids? Kids SNOOP. That stuff needs to be locked down tight.)

If you were solid on wanting to R, I’d recommend fronting yourself out and telling him that you found the letter, and that you’re disturbed that this fantasy was with a coworker. I think it has to be addressed or it will always nag at you.

Also, transparency and honesty is a cornerstone of R, not just for the WS, but for the BS too. We have to own our stuff (snooping) and share our thoughts and feelings.

However, you did say that you’re still on the fence about R or D, so there’s a solid case for keeping this to yourself while you wait and watch. And snoop some more.

A joint session with your H and his IC might be very useful, if your H allows his IC to share his goals and progress. (I made that a requirement for R.)

It's a red flag. IMO, confronting it may help you choose between D & R.

Thank you. One way or another I will confront him. He’s being more transparent about his "habits" to rebuild honesty. However he has not mentioned writing stories despite me fishing.
Interesting enough in his transparency efforts last night he mentioned a coworker that may fit this description. He said she has been more social since they’ve returned in office and he mentioned this because he is not returning the overly "friendliness".
So now my brain is assuming this is the coworker from the story. I realize this is his effort to stay loyal but I’m feeling it just may be too stressful for me to know he is thinking of coworkers in this way when he has crossed the line in the past.
Thanks as always for the support.

All of our situations are different, but for what it is worth, I will share this.

I found my spouse's record of his texts (he hand wrote copies of them before deleting them from his phone). They were full of fantasies about the AP. I am still sometimes haunted by the things I read. It has been a journey to find peace and settle the images in my head.

What has helped was this:

1. Prioritizing our joint recovery over questions of reconciliation. That space has helped me look at my spouse's issues (and there are many) as things that exist for him to work on separately from me. I did not commit to reconciliation for 8 months after DDay, and now we are on a "daily choice" model. Each day, we have to choose each other or walk away. Each day, he has to show me he wants reality, not the fantasy.

2. Researching more about the psychological needs behind his affair. My spouse had a limerent affair; he engaged in a fantasy relationship because he wanted to be someone different; he wanted a fantasy of someone who could heal the hole inside him. He was addicted to her. She was like heroin to him, and he wrote to her and about her like an addict. It has helped me to understand those things I read less as truth and more as fantasy and escape... words of a person craving the chemical release.

3. Valuing my own strength. We both experienced deeply traumatic things, especially in our experience of parenthood. I did not self-destruct in the way he did. I am not lesser, not inadequate, not pale in comparison to his fantasy. I am the core, the anchor, the grounded one who can handle his damage and offer him the grace of a chance to heal himself IF HE WILL DO THE WORK.

Give yourself time—and lots of self-love. If he is capable of reconciliation, he will have to first show he is interested in recovery. Take the risk to talk in a way you have never done before because you have NOTHING TO LOSE. The infidelity has already broken everything. The question is if there is something left that is worth rebuilding.

Notthevictem - I found out the fantasy story was written between 1/28-and 2/3 of this year, during our therapeutic separation.

Also, I meant to title this post Fantasy Story

I definitely see how finding a letter like that hurts.

With his executive speedbumps, I can also see how you would struggle with if he left it out intentionally (less likely) or was just being absent-minded (more likely). And how even the more likely option contains a HUGE lack of consideration on his part.

The fact that he was working through his fantasies while on a separation that hopefully should have convinced him to refocus on you and the marriage... probably didn't do him any favors in convincing you to offer him reconciliation.

This fantasy sounds a lot like a work crush. And those are pretty normal-- as in most people get them at some point in their life. I've had one or two before. What happened when I realized I had a work crush, though, is I ruthlessly smothered that emotion because its infantile... obviously not everyone does, given the number of members on this website alone.

We both know that if he can't let this fantasy go, then reconciling is a lost cause. It's natural if the letter makes you feel wary.

When I was in the fencesitting stage, one of the things that helped me was a kinda if/then chart I made one night. And by made, I mean it was more of a obsessive mad scientist frenzy of scribbling.

Not sure if doing one will help you, but if you're having sleepless nights like I did, then it might feel more productive that going full on sherlock holmes yet again (which we all did too).

The choice chart helped me keep calm sometimes when I found out new things, because I could refer back to my handy-dandy list.

So, that's my recommendation for doing something while you're waiting to see if he truly has pulled his head outta his ass.

No pressure if that's not your thing, either. Everyone's road to recovery is different.

At the very least, you know you've been heard (or, read technically) and understood.

Notthevictem -
The fact that he was working through his fantasies while on a separation that hopefully should have convinced him to refocus on you and the marriage... probably didn't do him any favors in convincing you to offer him reconciliation.

Thank you for this! Exactly how I feel and I love the idea of a choice chart.

lessthinking - Did you ever ask him about this? Do you guys talk about what he's doing in therapy? I wonder if that's a good way of figuring out if it was homework or not.

In saying this I know that people are of differing minds about how therapy is supposed to work, and I know many are adamant about the sanctity of the private nature of therapy - and I don't discount that. But I am nosy and impatient and often asked if he was willing to discuss, and my husband was typically happy to provide a report. He would even take notes afterwards of stuff he though was significant so he could tell me about it. It resulted in some productive discussions about the issues that came up, and it allowed me to be mindful of the stuff he was working on, and the breakthroughs he had.

[This message edited by emergent8 at 8:51 PM, Friday, March 15th]

I think every BS would be wise to require their WS to sign a release allowing their IC to talk with them (the BS); the WS's IC can't talk with anyone other than the WS without a release in most states. Joint sessions every so often are good ideas, too. WSes are prone to lying, and connecting with the IC can help make sure of the WS's honesty.

I made a release a requirement for R. My W was free to refuse, but she had to choose between keeping her IC confidential and being with me. Of course, her IC that she'd answer only simple questions from me. If I asked anything complex, she wouldn't want to answer outside of a joint session. That was good enough for me.

I have not mentioned it to him yet. I'm holding off, working it through in my head. I did ask about his work in therapy and he shared what they are working on. They are NOT working on this or anything sexual in nature at all. I don't think his IC is a good fit for what we currently have going on honestly. They have been working together for a couple of years now on OCD/ADHD stuff. I almost feel like I'm holding off on bringing up the fantasy story because I know it's more evidence to have me leaning towards D and I want to be ready.
I know he will basically find a new counselor if I ask him but I don't know if I want to bother just yet.

I rarely disagree with sisoon, but IMO, requiring a release for your spouse's therapy pretty much guarantees that they will lie to their therapist. I don't necessarily mean factual lies; I'm talking about editing the inner work and ugly thoughts that are the meat of IC. That makes the process expensive and pointless unless your WS has already achieved remorse and really has nothing they aren't ready to share with you (related to the A or otherwise).

I might have agreed to sign such a release in order to keep my marriage, but there's not a snowball's chance in hell that I would have been as open as I would if doctor-patient confidentiality was intact. I also think that performative mindset would have prevented me from reaching true authenticity inside or outside of counseling.