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The AP is back. I am losing my mind, yet again. D day was 1.5 years ago. My WH was caught, dropped the AP, although she clung on and tried to stay in touch for months, it did not work. He was resolute in ending it. We got through it. I have access to all devices and seen zero contact for a long time. So...his former AP out of nowhere messages, a few days ago. It was a random message, made no sense, it was administrative and not personal to him. I confronted him immediately and said we were done. Yes, I am now at the Plane of Lethal Flatness. He was horrified and trying to reassure me that they are not in contact at all. (I know they have not seen one another in 1.5 years) He blocked her and then deleted the messaging ap (as he never uses it, I have verified this). He gave me his phone. But I know this means nothing. I thought we were past this, but she just creeped in. Again. So either they are talking OR she is fishing. She has fished many times before. My divorce lawyer thinks she is fishing, and that WH is probably not guilty. I know where WH is 24/7 and have access to his phone and computer. So this may be a one-off random message, or I am missing a bigger issue. I don't know what to believe and can't live like this. What do the wise people at SI think? Did I overreact or is this a real warning signal? I hate that just when I was feeling more normal again, something like this happens and it sets me back to square one emotionally.

[This message edited by canadianfarmgirl at 2:04 PM, Tuesday, September 3rd]

I am so sorry. What can your husband do for you to believe him? Polygraph??

I’m sorry you are having to deal with this nonsense.

I do think the details matter here. If it truly is just AP sending an unsolicited message, then your husband is not guilty of anything. Your feelings about it are perfectly valid and understandable, and he should be bending over backward to comfort you. But he can’t control AP any more than you can control him.

That said, if the bigger picture is that this reveals that your life is fragile in a way that you won’t tolerate because of the A, with the whims of a tramp he invited in blowing things up, then you could make a choice to D.

What makes sense for you?

My WH was caught, dropped the AP, although she clung on and tried to stay in touch for months, it did not work. He was resolute in ending it. We got through it. I have access to all devices and seen zero contact for a long time.

How resolute was he in being transparent and owning his stuff? Is he doing the work to become a safe and trustworthy partner? If so, you might choose to believe him and remain watchful. You can also choose to ask for a polygraph to help calibrate your gut. Or you can choose to throw in the towel because you don't want to live this way. All are solid choices.

In relationships, trust is based on belief, not on facts. There is no way to know someone else's heart and mind. All we can do is believe that they're being honest and are worthy of our vulnerability. After infidelity, we have to learn to trust ourselves all over again to discern what's really going on by listening to our gut and observing actions. We can retreat at any time if it turns out to not be warranted. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, screw you. Not shame on me - no, we're not to be shamed for offering grace if all the signs are there that it's a reasonable bet to try again.

If asking for a polygraph helps you to believe him, I say go for it. I think that's a great idea.

Thank you CometGirl, we have not discussed a polygraph, but maybe that is next.

InkHulk you are spot on, as usual. I believe he does not want to be with her, he says he wants nothing except our marriage/has never been happier. He also insists there is no contact. One of 3 things is going on: A) I just got unfortunately lucky with the bad timing of this unsolicited message ...or.... B) They have started up communicating again recently (or C, she sent it by accident to the wrong person)

I guess if they had been 'in contact' I would have picked up on it long ago, because this was a really sloppy mistake on his part. He would never have left his phone out, with notifications enabled, with her real name on them. The phone made a ping noise, and poof - it was right there on the screen. I don't think he is that dumb if he had something to hide. So I guess this helps me to believe him.

I check his phone a few times a week. He never uses this messaging application, and has not opened it in 7 months. If he were really back in contact, I think he would have had his phone glued to him, which he did during the affair. He now leaves his phone everywhere. So I am clinging to these facts and trying to find comfort in them.

Your question is a good one. Every time the AP tries to reach him, I lose my shit. I am fragile. He says exactly what you said - he cannot control what she does and we just keep ignoring. But I am still suspicious, and I don't know if that is because of me being sensitive or because there really is cause for concern. I will eventually have to decide if I can live like this, or find a better way to cope when she inevitably pops up again, because she will.

SacredSoul - thank you for your strong advice. He was transparent-ish when everything blew up last year, and when this comes up now, he just keeps saying that there is no contact. I guess this is where facts vs beliefs comes into play. I have gathered facts and facts and facts and yet I still don't know what to believe. I want to believe him, and trying to use facts to bolster my belief. But clearly I have trust issues.

It sounds like they are still working in the same place - or at least there is a work association. You said her message was "administrative". That is challenging.

What boundaries are in place to maintain distance between them? Do you have an idea of what you would be willing to tolerate? Even though it is not your WH’s "fault" it is still possible that you find you can’t tolerate a world where this kind of communication continues to occur. You could request he change jobs or speak to HR to create a framework that maintains NO CONTACT.

Good question - he does not work with her. They have not seen one another in person in almost 2 years. Physical boundaries are in place.

In the past, a few times she would revert to administrative-type language, almost 'in code' because she and my WH were afraid of getting caught. (Speaking vaguely about documents or deliveries etc...) This only happened 3-4 times, 90% of the time she spoke like a normal cheating scumbag.

But in this recent instance, she never mentioned him or anything personal, just a vague message about a recipt for something. So there was no smoking gun type of message. I guess the question I will never be able to answer: were there messages exchanged leading up to my discovery? Most of my evidence says likely not, but there will always be doubt.

I want to believe him, but the more I think about it, the more sad I get.

The "administrative" language sounds like an insider code they came up with. Have you asked him to decipher it for you?

And while you may be fragile, it is fully understandable and not your fault, certainly nothing to feel bad about or apologize for. This was done to you, not by you. And yes, you need to heal yourself, but there is no judgment of where you stand on that journey, especially as early on as you are.

What AP is doing is within the risks your husband took in secretly inviting her into your marriage. While he can’t control her now, this is still on him that it is happening at all. You don’t have to accept this. And you can accept this if you want. You have that power and that control.

During the actual affair, code language only happened 3-4 times out of a zillion messages. I asked him to translate the recent one and he had no clue (so he said). In the past, I was able to easily translate the code. So this time around, either she was sending him some type of coded message, or it was in response to a message he sent (which I saw no evidence of) or she sent in error. I have to accept that I will never know.

Bottom line, the fact that any of this is still in my life, even if it is just one message, just shows how precarious this situation is and I am nowhere near trusting my WH. What a wake up call and total setback. It feels like D-Day all over again.

I have to accept that I will never know.

You could work on acceptance. Or you could ask him for a polygraph.

It feels like D-Day all over again.

I’m so sorry. Be kind to yourself.

I don’t have much advice on how to trust because it’s pretty hard to trust a known liar and cheater in the "early days." We’ve all been there.

The AP and my WH were coworkers, the only way they communicated was through good ol texting. I never thought of it until well after the fact, but I downloaded my cell phone carriers app and was able to log in and see all the incoming/outgoing texts from everyone on his phone. Not one message (since day before Dday) was sent to her and vice versa … except she sent my WH a text on the day/time she was fired (confirmed via records). My WH did not respond to her (confirmed via records). However, he also never told me she messaged him and we discussed 2 months prior in MC that he was to tell me if she did - he agreed. Needless to say, him not telling me this and me finding out on my own accord was a setback for us. He said he saw the message and panicked, deleted it instantly without thinking about it (sure, maybe, but unacceptable … especially since we discussed this scenario prior). I told him if he ever did this again he can get the fuck out.

Anyways … fast forward a few months after this "blip" I downloaded a texting app that changes your phone number so you can send messages from your phone and it will come up as a different number. I decided to test my WH … I sent a text "from her" to him … doing this made me sick because if he was going to choose to conceal this from me again I would probably D because there would just be no way I could ever trust him. Luckily for him, he came home and showed me immediately. He asked if I wanted to respond, block her or leave it alone. His response was "calming" and helped restore some trust. To this day he doesn’t know it was me. I might do another test like this at some point if I feel the need too.

Maybe this is something you could do. Did they ever communicate via text or a specific app? Create a number or fake account and pose as her. See what he does with it?

Did you consider having him reply something along the lines of Stay the hell away from me.
It seems very fortunate that you were there for the text arrival. I hear what you are saying as far as would your WH really be so dumb as to leave the app on with no notifications. I do think you have to trust your gut. And it sounds like your gut is telling you this is not of his doing.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 1:37 AM, Wednesday, September 4th]

HeartBroken Wife: That is something I have thought about, and I am impressed you were brave enough to pull it off. You and I are are similar in timelines and methodology, yet you seem to be doing great - I am happy for you. It seems like you have a truly remorseful WH.

As for testing my WH, I am considering it. I'll need to let the dust settle. Also, your post reminded me that I will get the phone records. He offered them last year and I said no because I was too angry. But now, I will get them. There may be some things in there I don't want to see, but I have to face the facts. There will always be the apps but I have ways of checking those.

StillConfused: Thank you for making me feel rational for at least trying to believe a known liar. How did you finally lose the AP? You must be very strong to withstand that type of stress. We have ignored, but she fishes and I finally got him to consider a restraining order. We spoke about a response, but then we don't want to engage with her. Ignore is not working, so may have to escalate. He keeps telling me that she will go away, and then bam - she's back. I intercepted that text somehow, but I know they have not been using this application for communication, unless very recently.

Whatever I have done you should probably do the complete opposite of that because what I have done has not been successful. Year 3 post-dday she managed to get herself rehired by his company. He had to go get her refired. Then just 3 months ago back again. She manufactured a patient care situation where they would have to collaborate. He is still trying to extract himself from that without violating any ethics.

I sort of wish I realized when I was at your stage that it doesn’t matter whether the WH is doing nothing wrong. It is still traumatizing to you and it will take a toll. It may not be worth it to you to stay. That is a very hard choice to make. Just dont waste a decade of your life getting retraumatized like I did.

The whole "test" ordeal made me feel so nervous. I kept thinking "what if I get found out" or "he’s going to know it’s me" … I strategically had to wait for the precise moment where it made sense that she might text him out of the blue. I contemplated heavily on doing it because I knew there was that potential of him "failing," but I wanted to see how he would respond. As I stated above, it was a huge relief he responded the way a remorseful and empathetic WH should. However, had it of played out differently I still would have gotten "closure," just a different kind.

Phone records! Honestly, I’m so mad at myself I didn’t think of digging these up sooner. I only more recently looked these up back in March! I will say, it was nerve wrecking to look through them (I went through everything with a fine tooth comb) and again it was a relief to have physical proof that what my WH had been telling me all along aligned with the phone records. I’m with Bell, but I think it’s standard that most phone companies only hold onto the past 6 months - anything after that is gone. However, it might give you some piece of mind being able to view whatever you can (maybe you find something, maybe you don’t). Infidelity … the gift that keeps giving

Also, I do agree with StillConfused. Trust your gut. Her messaging something random and seemingly out of the blue could be her phishing. I would like to think your H wouldn’t be that careless if he was actually up to something - he could be very innocent here. Your WH does need to step up his game in comforting you and maybe taking some initiative … sending a restraining order is a wonderful idea. Scheduling a poly sounds reasonable too. What do you think would help you and what can your WH do to help build trust?

I’m sorry you are having to deal with this. This brings up issues with me in regards to whether or not I can remain in this marriage. It sounds like your husband is being honest with you and doing some work. My. Wife has just now started to see a counselor through her works EAP program. Probably not going to truly help her much but in my world, I still feel the disconnect. I still don’t have the trust. She doesn’t really want to work on herself or show me change. So it my being suspicious a lot of the time valid, or am I really telling myself that the way my marriage is right now is not something I can live with. From your first post I feel like I’m hearing you asking yourself this same question. If something doesn’t change where your trust can grow, then is this a marriage you want to remain in. It’s a valid question and one I’ve been struggling with for a while. I hope you can find some clarity in what you truly need to be happy and safe.

CopingmyBest - that is exactly the question. How much uncertainty am I willing to live with? You are in the same boat, I suspect. My WH did not do 'the work' as people put it, but admitted everything, apologized profusely and since D Day has 99% shown up as a good partner. A year ago I was almost willing to live with it. Now I realize that this fishing could go on for years. And we don't have a way to stop it, or at least we have not yet agreed on a plan. And the question remains, can I live a life with someone where there is always a lingering doubt, combined with her fishing attempts? Or do I leave and find a new situation oneday where I won't have to feel this way?

Heartbrokenwife23- I am hoping my gut is correct. I will probably do a test at some point, but right now I am just trying to stay calm and sort through the facts. I never saw anything from him to her, he never uses the app (I have his app usage)so it looks like fishing but I'll never really know. I am working on a way for him to improve his response to me on this. I am traveling for work, so we are now apart and I don't actually want to speak with him at all. He knows I am still upset, but he keeps trying to move away from the topic and that it had nothing to do with him. This is what gives me pause....he is not as pissed off as I am. If I was in his position, I would be furious with the AP. He just seemed to think she was pathetic, but didn't seem all that rattled.

StillConfused - thank you for that perspective. I am getting re-traumatized almost 1.5 years post D-Day. this could go on forever, so your advice is spot on. His AP is not as brazen as yours (getting rehired!?) but....she has tried a few other stunts along the way, including fishing. I do not believe it will ever stop, so how do I live with it. I am also trying EMDR therapy to try and help with the repeat trauma. But I can feel myself getting weak and physically sick when this happens. Even though there is no active affair, I feel like there is.