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I don’t think we are saying anything too different at this point. It would be hard to take it TOO much deeper without direct talking, lots of time, and some mezcal wouldn’t hurt

I don’t believe that fear of others abandoning us is equivalent to our fear of self abandonment.

I agree they are not equivalent.

On one hand, some of us fear abandonment because our inner child feels abandoned. (Thanks, OIN, for bring that phrase into the discussion.)

OTOH, some of us have actually abandoned themselves. - those who need external validation, for example, though others abandon themselves by deciding they and the world are simply Not-OK, in Transactional Analysis terms (raises hands). Now that I think of it, the 2 dysfunctions can be treated by the same change - deciding one is OK, again in TA terms - but one can cure fear of abandonment in other ways, too, without dealing with the core issue (thinking one is Not OK).

I hope that's not psychobabble - thanks, OIN, for bringing us that term, too .

Now that I think of it, the 2 dysfunctions can be treated by the same change - deciding one is OK,

I feel this is very true.

What I have found is that what we believe or think is what controls our emotions and behaviors. There is unavoidable pain in any sort of loss but there is pain that we bring into it just because we have decided something is or isn’t. That’s why anyone can benefit from looking at how you have formed some of your perceptions and deciding if those perceptions are serving us. Foo/historical information is not an excuse for any behavior but part of the awareness needed to change our minds.

It brings to mind the great words

of the Dalai Lama - "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional"

And I think that same duality applies to abandonment:

It is painful to be abandoned by others, but we add to our own suffering when we abandon ourselves. When we allow another person to dictate our worth, our masculinity, femininity, etc.

So no I don’t think you can cure fear of abandonment by not fearing self abandonment, because as OIN pointed out we don’t fear self abandonment it’s more something we just tend to do. But we can make the fear less by knowing we can rely on ourselves.

I really appreciate all the morsels of wisdom that helped me clarify why this statement resonates, even if I didn’t have a lot of clarity around why.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:12 PM, Friday, April 26th]