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I told her if there were any other men or any other times with this guy, it would be addressed during the poly. I asked her how the OBS would react to all this info. She said that she and the AP discussed it and he was sure she should not know. He made it sound like it would be a big deal. My guess is he has been caught before in previous affairs.

She should rewrite her timeline and include every detail about the affair. Also add if she had other men she had affair with. All the sexual activities should be included including if they ever met up to have sex. I believe you had an idea on when they might have met up. You should push her on that.

Good luck!

I guess you still don't know much of the truth.

Why do you leave informing OBS to her, I think you should do it. Say that she admitted to having sex once for now, but you guess there more to learn.

Looking back now, all those lies, all the efforts to cover up the truth, seem much more terrible than the betrayel itself. Just the part you posted here is disgusting enough. How does she feel now, was it worth it?

I agree with guvensiz. You should be the one informing OBS. She's your friend right now. She might uncover other details about their affair. You never know, they might have been exchanging explicits between themselves that POSOM has been keeping for himself.

I know you're highly leaning for D right now. Are you going to file it under adultery? I know Michigan is a no-fault but fault will count in marital assets, custody and spousal support from what I've read.

Good luck!

It’s also cruel to the OBS to have her do it. She will be shattered beyond belief and her husband’s girlfriend delivering the news will make it 10x worse. You can do it both sympathetically and with as much equal standing with her that is humanly possible.

I’m not sure how I, going to file yet.

She’s acting very sorry and states over and over the same stuff she’s been saying all along. She’s been super responsive to questions which is a big change. I do feel like she has had a shift. She told me when she stopped talking to him this recent time she did it because she was listening to a podcast. I guess it talked about empathy. She said it hit her like a ton of bricks what she had been doing to me and decided to stop communicating with. Problem is I can’t believe that. I’m going back and rereading old messages she wrote to me over the last 4 years. It’s interesting to see the lies now that I have more information. It just makes me angry and shows how little she cares about me. In the recent messages from earlier this year she makes statement to him like "I’m worried Legatus is going to find out about us writing. My life as I know it would change if he found out. I don’t care if he doesn't want us talking. I need someone to talk to who understands me. Even just chatting with you makes me happy". She never said she feels bad about betraying me. It’s all about her and her needs. It seems like these two have something special, she should probably go after it.

It can be cruel to tell the OBS and I should probably consider that more. They are in Greece for the foreseeable future. That’s going to make it difficult to contact her. I did try to talk to the OBS initially, but my wife and her lover got to her first. She wasn’t having any of it.

I’m just angry right now. The emotional abuse over the last four years has been unyielding. I may feel different in a few days, but I thought getting this information would make it seem like it was less than I though or help me understand. It hasn’t though. I see her as an evil selfish person.

One last point. Today I told her again to cancel our reservations for a trip to Mexico in January. We are going with 5 other couples. She freaked out saying we will be ok by then and we don’t have to cancel the trip because we will work this out. I think she just wants to go to Mexico with her friends. I told her she should get a refund and use the money to go to one of those weekend programs for cheaters.

You have to think about it. Your wife and your so-called friend played you for the entire time. On the surface, it appears that they're just friends but all those years you had an inkling that there's an on-going affair, which was EA at the very least. It took her 1400 days (?) to admit to having sex for at least once. And you worked very hard to get that off her. My point is, all your thoughts during those times were proven to be true.

They gaslighted you. They told you, that you were the problem and not them. You proved them both wrong.

Now, you also have an inkling that it was not a one-time sex. Again, you have proven yourself correct. Will you be willing to work hard again in order to get her to tell you those other adventures they did? I'm 100% sure that whatever is playing in your mind right now is correct. Those days you thought they met up. I'm pretty sure they did. Would you be able to live one year from now and uncover more 'truths' as time goes by? Again, it took you 1400 days to uncover one sexual act. How much longer can you take to uncover others?

Whatever she's doing now, she's just showing you what you need to see. But that's a mirage.

Think about it.

FFS, she went there with full intentions on having sex with him & likely did it more than once all over that house.

He didn’t wear a condom.

Tell OBS, she deserves the truth the same way you do. If contacting her was a priority, you’d figure out a way.

She seemed contented with a separation until she realized her lifestyle would change. Realizing she wouldn’t be going on trips anymore. If AP were a free agent, who would she choose?

Bro I wish you all the best.

Beb -when I first received the information earlier today I felt good, like I finally had the truth. As the day went on I started to think her story still didn’t make sense. So, I’m in agreement with you. I don’t have it in me to go another year, and really I don’t need to. I think I will pull the trigger on the poly in the coming days and use the results as the most truth I’m going to get. Also, I know the most important thing. She’s willing to hurt me over a protracted period of time. That’s really the most important thing I know. She’ll continue doing it.

Alethia - I don’t know if he would really want her. I really think there is a strong power and control thing going on with him. I think he really enjoyed having sex with another mans wife. If she was free of marriage I think the appeal would go away. Years ago his wife joked/complained he was on his phone all the time messaging friends. I think he has a number of poles in the water.

If he were a free agent I think she would choose him. I say that because that’s what she’s been doing for the past 4 years. Not a lot of confusion there.

He did wear a condom. I mentioned that because his wife is unable to get pregnant. I thought it was telling he had one on hand since she claims sex was not on the menu leading up to the trip.

WW says he used a condom. She’s not the best historian & rarely do APs use protection. Using condoms with her lover? But pretending they did, it’s more proof that they both intended on having sex. I also found her "

we’ll be ok by then

" interesting. She still doesn’t get it. She doesn’t realize the depths to which she’s hurt you. She expects you to let it go like all the other times, you’re just taking longer this time then in the past.

[This message edited by Aletheia at 2:44 AM, Thursday, August 26th]

Legatus,

Today I told her again to cancel our reservations for a trip to Mexico in January. We are going with 5 other couples. She freaked out saying we will be ok by then and we don’t have to cancel the trip because we will work this out. I think she just wants to go to Mexico with her friends.

There is no reason to squander marital resources on a trip you'll never take. You should cancel the reservation yourself and inform the friends you will not be attending and why. Tell them you've discovered your wife has been unfaithful and you cannot go on a vacation or trip while your marriage is undergoing so much turmoil.

I am sad that there was a PA, but not surprised. You can poly her, and whether it was a one time event or not, she has continued the affair for years. No matter what she says, she has lived a double life. But NOW she gets it.

You seem resolved to end this charade of a marriage, yet she thinks you will be over it in January. That shows the depth of her delusional thinking. I get that you feel you need a poly to have some level of certainty. Once that is done, it’s really time for you to pull the pin. All else is floundering around.

In the immortal words of Tuco in the good, bad and ugly, "If you’re gonna shoot, shoot. Don’t talk!"

Her plan is to promise the sky, sun, moon and stars and wait you out. What is yours?

[This message edited by longsadstory1952 at 3:02 AM, Thursday, August 26th]

It can be cruel to tell the OBS and I should probably consider that more.

You are absolutely wrong on this point. Think about how hard you have fought for the truth and what that truth means to you. Does OBS not deserve that, also?

To that point, if you are done, be done. I’m lost on why you say you are going to D then continue to dig. If you’re are not done and may consider R, there is absolutely no shame in that but admit it to yourself.

You will never get the full truth and if you do, even with a poly, you’ll never believe you have it. Case in point, she came clean today about the sex, BUT she continues to lie about it. Either it was pre-planned (and he got condoms) or he didn’t use a condom (which is probably the truth). As soon as you take her to do the poly you’ll get the data-dump you’re looking for but it will still only be enough for her to pass the poly(or at least what she thinks is enough). The next day, after you begin to digest it, her story will again make no sense.

If you’re done be done.

[This message edited by DeWittle at 9:44 PM, August 25th (Wednesday)]

Trolls aside have you confronted her with her own words both to you and to her AP during the affair?

Of course you have every right to file for D knowing what she has done. In fact you did before you had the admittance it was physical.

However I can tell you are conflicted about it. So if you want to know anything and have the need for her to answer it, nows the time to be asking.

Anyway it would be important to me to have her finally have the evidence in front of her and confront her with it to get her acknowledgement of the extent of her deception. Obviously others would not see the need.

No matter which path you choose to take from here, to me, knowledge is power and any opportunity you have to gain insight to her thought process I’d see as useful.

Finally, absolutely cancel the trip. 5 months from now is a millisecond in reconciliation time. If she’s upset about that then that tells you all you need to know about what is important to her.

She’s delusional.

Anyway it would be important to me to have her finally have the evidence in front of her and confront her with it to get her acknowledgement of the extent of her deception. Obviously others would not see the need.

and

She’s delusional

I'm not sure how you can get acknowledgement of the extent of this WW's deception from her considering she is delusional. She is also a habitual liar who was happy to gaslight the OP, making him question his own sanity, during her affair.

I really can't see any benefit in talking to her at all. Or any other liar for that matter. Not without years of therapy and self discovery on her part.

That used to be standard advice around here....

It’s not cruel whatsoever. "My name is so and so. I have difficult information for you. Your husband and my wife were in an affair, I have confirmed this with proof and her own admission. It is likely that I will be pursuing divorce and thought that you should know so that you do not get blindsided as I did"

It is morally and ethically the right thing to do to inform the other man’s wife.

From a health perspective— she deserves to know. She may be at risk thinking he’s not cheating and having unprotected sex. That could be deadly with all the diseases around.

Consider informing her. She deserves to know.

If you want your wife to face the consequences then tell her to tell the OBS. You cancelling the trip means nothing to her and serves as her fuel to justify in her head that it is a reason that she cheated on you.

She should feel embarrassed and ashamed. Not anger and frustration. Cancelling the trip falls under anger and frustration from my point of view.

I don't really know the reason behind your not exposing the affair. Is it a way to hang over a thing over your cheaters head as a form of control because there does not seem to be a good reason for not killing the virus that is actively infecting your marriage.

It may be too cruel to the OBS to have your wife be the one to inform her that they did indeed have sex. But in my opinion I agree, it definitely needs to be done. And unfortunately that lands on you to do if you can bring yourself to do it.

But I would offer to have my wife be available to confirm it of the OBS decides she wants to hear it from her. And your wife should be willing to offer any and all details the OBS needs to hear.

Has your WW told you exactly what they told the OBS back then to make her agree that nothing was going on? That would also be good to know in case the OBS asks about what she considered the truth all these years.

Your wife has years of work ahead of her. First up should be IC with an infidelity specialist. I can’t remember if that has started yet.

While you work on forming up the timeline you should take the time to develop the path you need to take here to find your happiness. There is no rush. Nor does making decisions now preclude your from changing your mind later.

As always, I wish you well on this unfortunate journey.

I laughed when you posted that your WW and the OM decided it would not be a good idea to inform his wife.

Here's two cheaters who (among other things in marriage) are: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lack empathy for their spouses elevating their sordid long term affair to a 'justifiable' romance between two star crossed lovers.

I call BS. These are two people that wanted more than what any marriage offers (the high from an affair). Whatever your wife got from the OM she could have found elsewhere without adultery.

One of the few consequences of their decision to commit adultery and betray their loved ones is exposure.

The OBS is living a lie. She is unknowingly competing with her husband's fantasy lover (including the memory of) and she can never be could enough. If you expose, she will have an opportunity to realize that their past marital problems were not her fault - but rather due to the presence of another woman in their marriage.

Any discomfort she experiences is not caused by you - but by her husbands infidelity.

Don't let him get away with it.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 2:21 PM, Thursday, August 26th]