SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hole in the Wall,

So sorry you are here. You've gotten some great advice. But

are you doing any trauma work for yourself? It's often said that the WH has to do his own therapy and the BS has to do her trauma work before it's possible to work on the marriage. Your husband needs a CSAT, not just any therapist. You need a specialist in betrayal trauma. (you can find one by googling International Association of Trauma Professionals, which has a pull down menu.) It's crucial that you the trauma work now to prevent Complex PTSD, which can sneak up later even if you don't meet the criteria yet.

After you have both stabilized and are ready to work on your marriage, your marriage counselor too should have training in sexual addiction betrayal. Regular counselors sometimes make it worse for the betrayed spouse because they don't understand how ill the sex addict is and how blindsided and betrayed we are.

12-step meetings are a source of strength and calm me like nothing else. Personally, I don't think Al-Anon is appropriate for spouses of sex addicts. a) it's different for us since we didn't see the acting out, as opposed to say, spouses of alcoholics, who deal with terrible but very different things. b) because we didn't know about their behavior, it is incorrect to call us co-dependent. That doesn't mean that some of us don't have co-dependency issues, but the term most often used for spouses of sex addicts who didn't know it was happening is prodependce, which Robert Weiss came up with. Anyhow, there's nothing like a meeting with other women who know EXACTLY what you've been through. I tried the SA-anon ones but they were by phone. Luckily, there are some good zoom ones through SAL Lifeline (which also has some other resources on its website.)

Vicky Tidwell Palmer has the go-to book, Moving Beyond Betrayal, and she also has good info on her website and good podcasts.

Finally, I know exactly what you mean about reverting to seeking comfort from the man who did this to you. I did the same thing. I think muscle memory is pretty entrenched. But things become clearer as time goes by and you find other support through meetings and your therapist.

Good luck

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 12:37 AM, January 17th (Sunday)]

Thanks Raven.

After my outburst last night, I can't stop crying and my past traumas are haunting mhe frightened kid that had no one tell. The empty teen with no support after a suicide attempt, the adult remembering childhood sexual abuse who felt her emotions out of control but had the support of her spouse and friends. The emptiness of losing my parents within a year of each other, leaving me as the only member of my immediate or extended family. And now

I've been in the loneliest place since March 2020. Going on one year, although I just found out about his running around at Thanksgiving.

I was doing ok for a bit. But, after getting so angry t y, screaming at WH last night, all of this other stuff came up.

I do not have a trauma therapist but have been working with someone for years. Should I get an additional therapist for me? As far as hes concerned, after last night, I would be surprised if he even interacts with me.

I made my situation so much worse I think. I don't know how I am going to get through the day.

HITW,

I'm sorry you're feeling so terrible. You told your WS your truth and it can be scary to finally name who he is and what's happening. The entire landscape has shifted beneath your feet. Do the next right thing - eat, sleep, walk, work - whatever is in front of you. Be gentle with yourself. Consider conversations with him going forward in terms of what the aftermath might be for you and whether you want to take that on in that moment. It's totally natural to lose your shit after being blindsided. We all have done it many times.

I can't stop crying and my past traumas are haunting mhe frightened kid that had no one tell.

The trauma of betrayal did the exact same thing to me - it brought up all the old traumas and losses. I lost all of my family in the last 15 years - all of them. My husband was my family - the only adult I could lean on and rely on. I know well that lonely feeling. It does get easier.

If your current therapist isn't quite cutting it on the trauma front add someone else by all means. Throw everything at this and see what feels right. Are you seeing anyone for meds? For me, having meds to deal with the depression, anxiety and sleep issues got me through that first stretch of shock and disorientation.

Hello HITW, I'm sorry you've been given the need to be here. I'm somewhat new to the page. My most recent of 4 Ddays was in August and I became an official member here in October.

I've been gone a while. On my last post, about 6 weeks ago, I had said my SAWH and I was getting a divorce. We had teeter-tottered for months after Dday #4 but things came to a head and crossroads for me when he sent me some horrible texts, calling me a Bitch, told me to Fuck off and that I kept trying to change him but he was not going to change.

I've been seeing a counselor for a few months. Well...I've been MIA because two days after Christmas and another big blow up, we decided to reconcile...neither of us mention divorce anymore, try our best, and begin marriage counselling. He is willing to go to marriage counseling but said he will only go to individual counseling if the MC says he needs to. I've been informally assured he would be because this is Biblical counseling.

A big change in my attitude and heart came when he finally verbally apologized for the language he used with me in his hateful texts. (he had previously texted an apology after an argument and I had let him know how important a verbal was to me).

However, the apology only seemed to be the minimal amount of sincerity but i took it and somehow felt better. He still never actually apologized for calling me a Bitch and hurting me profoundly. As crazy as it may sound, I had felt there was no coming back from that text.

Anyhow, when we decided to start over he told me he was no longer looking at any kind of porn because he knew how it made me feel. He has both a personal and work cell phone and had changed his passwords after I hacked into one of them and found months worth of porn, albeit mostly soft porn with scantily dressed women modeling underwear (and on ---camera changing).

Well today while he was scrolling through his facebook when were both in bed, i saw several advertisements of sexy women with this soft porn again. He's told me in the past that whatever searches you do using our wi-fi on your phone will generate in-kind advertisements on your facebook. Now i have a faster beating heart again and a lump in my throat because I know that he's not only still been doing it but he lied to me again.

Things have been a lot better between us for the past few weeks to this point. I was even starting to trust him again. His previous arguement about counseling had been the cost. A friend of mine found we can get free counseling from her church. They don't advertise it to non-members and we had to submit an application that basically gave information about ourselves and the issues. He and I had completed them together. I told him earlier in the week I wanted him to go with me to church this morning and turn them in. He never said he would go but he knew it was important to me because I told him that since the counseling is for both of us we should turn them in together to show we are serious about it.

He didnt go with me and I told him I was getting ready to go.

We've been getting our house ready to sell because we've wanted to downsize and it's currently a seller's market. I'm thinking I shouldn't say anything right now about what I saw on his phone and instead continue on with the sale of our house. I dont want to plan a vacation for the summer like he wants me to do and I dont want to look for another home yet. Our house is supposed to go on the market 3/1 and will probably be under contract within 2 weeks at top dollar because there is basically no inventory in our area...everything sells fast.

What are your opinions of my discovery and plans? I don't foresee any success with MC but I want to give it a shot for both us and to let him fall flat on his face when he quits the counseling. My share of the equity would be enough to start over.

[This message edited by MyHeart101 at 1:46 PM, January 17th (Sunday)]

I feel that's terrible of me to say "Falls flat on his face". I love my husband but his actions are showing me he has a real problem and I don't feel I can trust or believe him. It was just 3-4 weeks ago that he last told me he hasn't viewed anymore porn and he hasn't been tempted and it was less than 2 months ago when he chose to remove the Covenant Eyes app to monitor his online activity. He hasn't shown signs of being sincere with his offer of/ contingency on IC.

We were notified that we should be contacted to begin our sessions for MC in a week after they evaluate our paperwork.

[This message edited by MyHeart101 at 12:03 PM, January 20th (Wednesday)]

12-step meetings are a source of strength and calm me like nothing else. Personally, I don't think Al-Anon is appropriate for spouses of sex addicts. a) it's different for us since we didn't see the acting out, as opposed to say, spouses of alcoholics, who deal with terrible but very different things. b) because we didn't know about their behavior, it is incorrect to call us co-dependent. That doesn't mean that some of us don't have co-dependency issues, but the term most often used for spouses of sex addicts who didn't know it was happening is prodependce, which Robert Weiss came up with. Anyhow, there's nothing like a meeting with other women who know EXACTLY what you've been through. I tried the SA-anon ones but they were by phone. Luckily, there are some good zoom ones through SAL Lifeline (which also has some other resources on its website.)

Well said. I got enormous help from SANON in early days even though the official POV of the national group more closely identifies with AA, the idea of codependence is paramount. In my experience, I definitely became codependent, not because I knew what he was up to, but because I was trying to keep the peace. Like many addicts, he went on the attack if I dared to question anything. They attack if their drug of choice is threatened. It behooves all of us to examine our actions and evaluate whether or not we are codependent, it's an unhealthy way to live. On the other hand, it's hard to figure out what is healthy nurturing and what is unhealthy. We are programmed to want to protect our families, a good counselor can help us figure it out.

he sent me some horrible texts, calling me a Bitch, told me to Fuck off and that I kept trying to change him but he was not going to change.

This may be the most honest he's been with you in years.

I've been seeing a counselor for a few months. Well...I've been MIA because two days after Christmas and another big blow up, we decided to reconcile...neither of us mention divorce anymore, try our best, and begin marriage counselling. He is willing to go to marriage counseling but said he will only go to individual counseling if the MC says he needs to. I've been informally assured he would be because this is Biblical counseling.

He's controlling the outcome still. He's hiding. Scrupulous honesty is the only way he'll get to sobriety, if ever.

A big change in my attitude and heart came when he finally verbally apologized for the language he used with me in his hateful texts. (he had previously texted an apology after an argument and I had let him know how important a verbal was to me).

However, the apology only seemed to be the minimal amount of sincerity but i took it and somehow felt better. He still never actually apologized for calling me a Bitch and hurting me profoundly. As crazy as it may sound, I had felt there was no coming back from that text.

Despite the fact that my husband has changed dramatically, there are words and insults he slung at me years and years ago that still echo in my head. I can re-hear them, recall exactly where I was standing, recall the same emotions. I don't think we get over that. He is very remorseful and hates himself for saying those things, can verbalize WHY he said them. But it doesn't change my memory.

Well today while he was scrolling through his facebook when were both in bed, i saw several advertisements of sexy women with this soft porn again. He's told me in the past that whatever searches you do using our wi-fi on your phone will generate in-kind advertisements on your facebook. Now i have a faster beating heart again and a lump in my throat because I know that he's not only still been doing it but he lied to me again.

Yep. Still lying, not even trying to be sober, whiteknuckling at best.

Things have been a lot better between us for the past few weeks to this point.

It's better because you are still hiding his secrets. By not talking about it, you enable him. Secrets are an addict's most precious possession.

I was even starting to trust him again.

He hasn't earned that trust. Far from it.

His previous arguement about counseling had been the cost.

An excuse. Addicts will avoid anything that might get in his way. An addict will find a reason to use when there is NO reason to use.

He didnt go with me and I told him I was getting ready to go.

Of course not. Counseling threatens his drug of choice.

We've been getting our house ready to sell because we've wanted to downsize and it's currently a seller's market. I'm thinking I shouldn't say anything right now about what I saw on his phone and instead continue on with the sale of our house. I dont want to plan a vacation for the summer like he wants me to do and I dont want to look for another home yet. Our house is supposed to go on the market 3/1 and will probably be under contract within 2 weeks at top dollar because there is basically no inventory in our area...everything sells fast.

What are your opinions of my discovery and plans? I don't foresee any success with MC but I want to give it a shot for both us and to let him fall flat on his face when he quits the counseling. My share of the equity would be enough to start over.

No reason to say anything to him. I'd keep the plans close to the vest. But make copies of ALL your important papers, save them in a safe place. When he figures it all out, he may just ramp up his attack, who knows what kind of retaliation he may come up with.

You are NOT SAFE with him, maybe he isn't a physical threat, but addicts are simply not to be trusted. They are incapable of love and caring. They are the epitome of selfishness. IMO, staying with an addict who is NOT involved in an active, ongoing recovery program is devastating. Even then, slips and relapses are common, even expected. It's very, very hard on the spouse, stressful and continuing.

I am 12 years out from when the shit hit the fan. Even then, I didn't know the extent of his addiction. Since then, we've had slips and a major relapse. I am aged by all of this, I see the stress in my face, in my chronic pain, in my nightmares. The hypervigilance required is ongoing and very hard on the body. My husband is continually remorseful, actively ashamed, and determined to fix himself. Still, my life has been profoundly damaged and my underlying feeling is that my life has been a lie.

I have sympathy for addicts, I do. They are victims of their addiction that often stems from childhood abuse, often sexual abuse. But that doesn't mean we have to help them, or put up with it, or stay with them. Sickness and Health doesn't mean at the risk of our own health.

I'm sorry to be negative. I am happy in my life, I'm happy because I put myself first and mindfully do things that I want to do. But I also have a real, tangible plan if he ramps it up again or engages with RL women. That gives me a measure of peace and serenity.

Love to you all. You are heroes.

[This message edited by Lionne at 9:20 PM, January 20th (Wednesday)]

Personally, I don't think Al-Anon is appropriate for spouses of sex addicts. a) it's different for us since we didn't see the acting out, as opposed to say, spouses of alcoholics, who deal with terrible but very different things. b) because we didn't know about their behavior, it is incorrect to call us co-dependent. That doesn't mean that some of us don't have co-dependency issues, but the term most often used for spouses of sex addicts who didn't know it was happening is prodependce, which Robert Weiss came up with. Anyhow, there's nothing like a meeting with other women who know EXACTLY what you've been through. I tried the SA-anon ones but they were by phone. Luckily, there are some good zoom ones through SAL Lifeline (which also has some other resources on its website.)

I think you make a very good point. I didn't discover the SA stuff until after drug addiction reared it's head (he started drugs because he was with drug-addicted prostitites), so I was in Al-Anon and Nar-Anon before infidelity was even on the radar for me. I wasn't codependent and the major lessons were no-brainers for me. What I got from it was the comfort of being with others who knew what it was like to be with someone who had essentially lost his mind and left me standing there holding the bag. By the time I knew of the SA stuff, I had spent a good couple of months in the other groups. But no, if it's purely just SA, I can see being highly offended by the lessons in codependency delivered by other programs because it just isn't the same at all. I knew something was up when he started doing drugs. I didn't have a clue when it was prostitutes.

Thank you for your response Lionne.

But no, if it's purely just SA, I can see being highly offended by the lessons in codependency delivered by other programs

When I hear codependency I want to scream. To be victimized to the point of a mental breakdown and still picking up the pieces 18 months later, and then have someone suggest I should talk about the defects in my character is beyond understand. Can I stop bleeding first?

Grrr.

Yeah...I was not particularly codependent. I had him kicked out and the locks changed two weeks after he first came home high and the third time was the charm. And I LOOOOVED that man. So no, even the codependency talk in Al-Anon and Nar-Anon was like "yep, totally agreed, can't change it or control it." and then it was just the comfort of being around others who knew the pain. I had good groups, though. There was no "you're broken". It was all "You can't help them, so love yourself and don't enable them and here's a big big hug to go with that coffee and donut".

And that was pre-DDay and when I thought I knew what pain was, lol.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 3:57 PM, January 28th (Thursday)]

My SAWH and I have our first MCsession Tuesday via zoom. In the past, husband said he would go to IC IF MC told him he needed to go. This is Biblical counselling and I expect he'll be told he needs to go. I hope. It's been 5 months since last Dday and I know he's slipped by watching porn again and lying to me about doing it. I didnt call him out on it. I probably should have but was kind of waiting to begin counseling and do it during then.

Ladies,

I just found out I'm divorced.

I'm shaking - sad and relieved all at once.

Just popping in for an update.

Good news - PTSD has brought up some straggling emotions of past traumas and allowed me to move through them. At the same time I am working on the current betrayal trauma and issues that have been haunting me for a long time, as some are the same. I did manage to get some clarity. I have been reading, journaling, going to IC, found a support group (not sure about it yet) and working my butt off. I don't want to be in this situation again, myself, I have to get better. I am determined.

I am no stranger to crises and trauma. Nothing has been so intense for the last 30 or so years, but the person I am now, compared to the person I was then, is much healthier and has navigated a lot of this type stuff before. I am not trying to make it sound easy. Make no mistake, I am still F'ed up.

Detachment: I have been able to detach for some things that use to make me full of anxiety. I found myself not detaching from a temper tantrum WS had in another room this morning. I stopped myself when my 3 dogs huddled under my desk - he scares them - my attention was diverted to them so they were distracted.

Boundries: I canceled the MC this week because WS has not managed to get to a meeting yet. I did not want to go in circles again and waste time. We need a new counselor that knows about SA. I am searching for one that takes our insurance. I am ready to set some other boundries as situations arise.

WS is off Sat and Sun. His sleep has been messed up since March of last year (hasn't addressed it), is burnt out from work and is on the brink of losing his job and facing financial pressure and is a bit beyond grumpy. The SA meeting he thinks he is going to attend is at 8a tomorrow. As if....

Forecast: Stormy Skies ahead for the next couple of days.

Ladies,

I just found out I'm divorced.

I'm shaking - sad and relieved all at once.

YES!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

This is a good day. You are just you again. This is gorgeous.

I hope so, Dee.

I almost burst out crying at the eye doctor's office. Geez. They said 3-4 months from when I filed final papers but it took two weeks! I was actually divorced on January 7, but it just posted online today. I didn't file with copies so nothing came in the mail. I don't know what drove me to check online - I had a feeling or maybe I was just hoping for a miracle. My ex probably has no idea. I thought of telling him since he's putting me on his new health insurance, but decided it's not my responsibility. He knows how to use a computer.

I suppose the final healing can commence now. But, yeah, I feel a little yuck.

To the new people, my heartfelt sympathy that you are here. I’m too triggered at the moment to catch up fully or offer any advice.

Skeeter, that must be difficult to accept the finality of the divorce but also relieving. I did read your post in divorce though so I know you are struggling with it. Hang in there. Hopefully it gets easier.

I’m struggling still...it is so hard. I’m at a crossroad which is not new to me. He is suggesting all options to not separating, therapy and such.... All the stuff that should have been ongoing all this time. I honestly feel the betrayals, regardless of cause, have been to many to recover from at this point.

I’m starting to lean into that empathy for his addictions. However, I’m not falling for the ‘i have no control over my choices because I’m an addict or I’ve been abused’ part. I have learned they have choice, they know right from wrong...he has chosen his addictions over family every time.

It just pulls on my heart strings because I am the one initiating this separation and starting to feel guilty. I’m also starting to see on paper the financial stress this is going to create. As always, I’m also devastated at splitting time with the kids.

Somber,

It's a lot to absorb and the empathy thing is rough. I spent a lot of months in limbo because of empathy. My ex had a legit terrible childhood and he's got a ridiculously lovable side (or act). Every time he seemed to be coming around or agreed to some little act of recovery, I'd re-engage, but once he felt comfy again, the emotional abuse and cheating would start up anew - if it had ever ended. SAs and disordered folks will cycle through a lot of angles to keep us around - one of those is acting serious about recovery. In my experience, and from what I see on SI, few stick with it.

I went through all the alternatives to D with my ex - open marriage/polyamory, friends with benefits, friends....but I was clinging to the dream, not the reality of who he is.

Active addicts make for difficult partners at best. I suspect, given what you've shared about your husband, there's also more than addiction at play - like a personality disorder perhaps. That just makes the odds of recovery even more miniscule.

You may need to keep going round a few more times to get to a final decision and that's totally okay. It's a suck ass process.

In the process of discovering WH's multiple affairs, escorts, etc. in the past year, I also calculated that he kept half of his take home pay (which is slightly less than I brought home all year), has spent all of it and has nothing to show for it. All year, he has been providing less that what is needed for us to survive and basics are being neglected like vet visits, home maintenance and repairs. I am the one who handles the finances and incurs credit cards debt when we cannot afford things upfront (like the vet). I have refused to use credit cards for any family expenses going forward. This is boundry number one, which I set a while back.

We reviewed all of the bills but rather than just depositing his check in our account, he is still just giving what he feels is "his" share of the bills. Granted, it is more than it was, but I still feel it is deceitful and it's it like giving half a cup of water to someone who has been dying of thirst. But, before we can figure that out (but it does need to be done). He is losing his job this week. For performance. I saw it coming. He is passing the blame onto others at his work, but I am sure his tardiness and attendance had a lot to do with it.

There were two other things I told him:

1. Now that he will have some time on his hands while looking for a job,I encouraged him to deal with his health issues and get into recovery for himself. If he thinks it is best for him, do it. If not, do not. I will be watching but will lay off suggesting and reminding. Meanwhile, I will concentrate on my recovery work. (I can control me, not him).

2. We are not going back to the same marriage counselor, as the guy is not qualified to handle our situation. When we are ready (I will wait a couple of weeks), we will see a CSAT or someone qualified in sex addiction. He is not happy about changing counselors but this is for my peace of mind, not his. There will be no negotiation on this, unless I see no progress on recovery. If there is no progress, we will go see a CSAT to have him evaluated. (that 2nd part was not mentioned).

I have been doing a lot of reading, checking out various partner and addict websites, listening to podcasts. I have found one partners online group and am waiting for info on a SANON meeting. I've also been processing a lot of old trauma related stuff that was brought up by this. I am proud of what I have accomplished so far.

I would appreciate any feedback. Am I headed in the right direction? Missing something? Possible pitfalls upcoming with him here all the time vs seeing him an hour a day.

Thank you all in advance.

PS Skeeter - CONGRATS!

In the process of discovering WH's multiple affairs, escorts, etc. in the past year,

I would appreciate any feedback. Am I headed in the right direction? Missing something?

I know that this isn't the answer you want to hear and I know that it's hard. In all honesty, the first sentence says everything. You can keep doing the dance, trying to get him to fix himself, trying to deny the reality of what you're in for a while. Explain to him how you're affected by this. Give him empathy for his pain and dysfunctions. Let him cry and tell you he'll change, discover he hasn't. Rinse and repeat. You will do that stuff, we all do to a certain extent after DDay. I think all of that is a coping mechanism to prevent us from seeing it for what it is. Some never leave, and pay a price mentally and physically from it. When the first sentence is true, the only second sentence that gives you a way out of the dysfunction is "I decided to get a divorce". Even if the miraculous happens and he turns it around and becomes a different person, you're not even halfway to R. Then you have to figure out how to live with someone who betrayed you that way. You have to live with the reality that sex addicts almost always relapse and live the rest of your life with him with that knowledge. Never able to fully relax. That black cloud hanging over your head.

Bottom line, my H was NEVER who I thought he was.

Now I am straightening my thoughts out and aligning my truth with his fact. So far it is matching up pretty well.

I was a fool for him and he knew it. It is now time to take MY life back!

I've read the last several posts and I believe what Skeeter said:

This-

..but I was clinging to the dream, not the reality of who he is.

And this-

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SAs and disordered folks will cycle through a lot of angles to keep us around - one of those is acting serious about recovery. In my experience, and from what I see on SI, few stick with it.

Why would they want to stick with recovery? First, it would mean having to look at their past. And also when there are so many willing women out there who are willing and ready to spread their legs with the hopes of more, why would these type of men really want to give that up? Their brains are warped! It would take a miracle for them to get better. My opinion and experience.

I know in time I need to forgive myself for ignoring those red flags but in the meantime I am going to trudge through my grief from his death and grief for what he put me through and come out on the other end a stronger women who has so much love for herself that she will never allow anything like this to ever happen again.

I'm so sorry that you all also have to experience this horrible pain of betrayal. Such a disappointment to finally see the truth of who he really was.