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Does that make an affair more forgivable?

@Ferus, it makes it more understandable, but I don't think it makes it more forgivable. My STBXWW had all sorts of issues, and I suspect a personality disordered mother. That doesn't change the fact that she hid her affairs from me. She knew what she did was wrong, regardless of what goes on in her mind to justify them.

To the outside world he looks like all rainbows, butterflies and maybe a mean unicorn. From behind closed doors I feel like I have always been on a rollercoaster with him in one way or another. I'm not like that with other people. I get along easily. I'm so very tired right now.

@JIMA, I could have said the same things as you've just said. That roller-coaster feeling, walking on eggshells, anxiety... It's not normal, and it's not OK. I am going to recommend a couple of books for you. If you haven't, please read "Walking on Eggshells" and "Codependent No More". I would recommend Walking first.

If your WH does have a PD, I am not going to lie to you, I don't have high hopes for your relationship. There is treatment that can be effective, but so often these personality types are treatment resistant because they are unable to stick with a program and do the work.

I may read the co-dependent one but I don’t think I am. My IC doesn’t and I’m in a 12 step group and on here and don’t identify with it. But I still think there is a level of co-dependency it relational trauma when you are in a relationship with someone for so long. Maybe I should still give it a read?

My H actually has stuck with things in the past and has been following through a great deal on his own over the last year. With IC, MC, men’s group, 12 step which was his idea I do see progress but I still feel there is something off. He is very remorseful and repentant. Maybe is is God! I’m not sure. The piece that feels missing is his deep ness. It is still very hard for me to see into him emotionally. Intimacy with him on a deep level is hard. He is there for me now but I think he has trouble identifying and rooting out his own emotions. He is somewhat a mystery to me still. At the same time he had made great strides and wants help. I guess I’m here I read more about PD that really don’t see a problem with themselves or don’t seem to even care about trying or who they step on or hurt.

My H actually has stuck with things in the past and has been following through a great deal on his own over the last year

That's an excellent sign. I hope that he can continue forward.

This takes time. If he's compliant with this as he has been with other things, I recommend just going with the process. It might be helpful for you to meet with your WH and the person prescribing the medication so there is no misunderstanding about what to expect.

Oh and with Codependent No More, I have read it six times from age 17 to now. Only when I read it two years ago did it actually make sense to me.

I am not saying that you are a codependent, just sharing my experience with it.

Sorry to clarify, I know his IC recommmded going and considering mood stabilizers. What I don’t know is what he sees that is leading him to recommend it. He is also our MC and has not mentioned it to me. I think I will ask him. It may clear it up for me and I can express my concerns. I’m just a little strange about my journey verses my H’s journey I guess. It is his IC. But I think my H would be ok if I asked. So, I think that would be a good idea. I will talk to my H about it later. I have really stayed out of it because my H is already stressed about it. I don’t know that I want to stand in the way of Jim getting help is he needs it. So many in here won’t get help. . He didn’t seem to be asking for input either. He was just talking to me about it, which is actually a huge step to let me in. I think he will openly diacuss it with me afterward

I will say in the past I definetly felt I had to walk on egg shells, the kids did too. He also wouldn’t let me in so I just felt lost and I would distract myself and push forward. My H actually recognized this himself after Dday. He said he felt so bad that his family felt they had to walk on egg shells around him. I didn’t say it. I didn’t even realize it before he said it.

It really is a sad way to live. It’s odd how you slowly get there and don’t even see it sometimes.

JIMA: I understand your concerns that he was an alcoholic and him taking meds, but it depends on the meds. If they are antidepressants, for example, it will NOT affect his alcoholism. Read up on them. I wouldn't take them myself for years until I understood that depression and anxiety can alter the brain's chemicals and antidepressants can PHYSICALLY help correct the balance. He doesn't have to be on them indefinitely. It may only be for a while. Talk to the docs. Ask a lot of questions.

Ferus: I agree with xhz700. His behavior may be understandable because of what he went through. You may some day forgive him. BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, that does NOT make the behavior acceptable, especially if it is continuing and it is hurting you, whether emotionally or even your spirit. There gets to be a point that you have to choose you.

I have finally gotten to the point that although I might explain away WH's behavior, or whether or not he meant to hurt me, or whether or not he loves me deep inside, etc, the behavior is toxic. It continues and will continue. I can no longer live with it and believe me, I tried for over 25 years with the last 8 years almost killing me (emotionally).

So, although I still love him (it's weird, but I do, perhaps it's the good side of him that I love), I can no longer live with the toxic behavior, even if I might understand it. I have forgiven a lot, but that no longer matters. I have to leave him so I can survive.

My H went today. The first thing they recommended was an anti depressant. My H said he is often down then has highs or manic episodes? This is all very foreign to me. I can see this however when he gets super productive sometimes and everyone else annoys him. The psychiatrist mentioned to watch for increased irritability as a possible side affect that would not be ok for him. I just feel like I have no idea about this stuff. I’m pretty lost. My H said he did say he was possibly what used to be termed an NOS? He said he threw out bipolar word once but didn’t say he was? I don’t know. I know it wasn’t one visit

JIMA: Talk to your husband to see if it would be ok that you join him to the psychiatrist to discuss what meds are recommended and why they are being recommended. How would they be helping him, etc. If you don't understand something, ask questions. Ask about any literature or books that you and your husband could read that could help.

Information is power.

NOS simply means "Not Otherwise Specified" in the earlier editions of The American Psychological Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

The current edition, DSM 5, has cut out many former NOS categories, or replaced them with "Not Elsewhere Classified."

So it was/is a "catch-all" category, for when a clinician evaluates a person's symptoms as a probable fit for a particular diagnosis, but they don't seem to precisely fit currently standardized criteria for diagnosis.

[This message edited by Superesse at 9:08 PM, February 8th (Thursday)]

Thanks for the advice. This is just a whole new world for me. I am very healthy physically and my life just changed last year and now I am in a world of counseling, 12 step now and physiatrist. I’m just getting lost in it all, although it is helpful. It just feel like my new life and future. I am struggling because I just want to go back in time to when I felt safe and had peace

JIMA I think you've expressed exactly how so many of us have been experiencing life since our d-days. It's a whole new and weird world; the regular meetings with ICs and MCs; the group meetings.

Our MC also recommended my H visit a psychiatrist and consider going on ADs. He's now taking them every day. Like you I feel my whole past life is gone. That's because it is.

I see you joined SI last year in May. So it's still new in Betrayal Time. Im almost 2.5 years out and it has become easier in some ways--the old pre discovery life slips further and further away--this new one, the one which is the reality, starts to feel less weird.

As time passes, I think most of us get used to the new reality--a kind of acceptance creeps in. There can even be some good things. I've actually made some lovely friends in the groups I've been attending; I've made some lovely friends through SI. My H tries to become the person he only faked being before. Hopefully your H is working as well to become the H you truly deserve; to be the person his better self can be proud of.

I know the wanting to go back to the time of feeling safe and at peace. I wanted that too. I also wanted to go back to the time I could feel affection. But I now know that those feelings were not based on reality; they were based on my H's living a lie--and at my expense and with my ignorance. So now I want to find a new peace and a new safety and maybe you can come to want that too because I think you have the strength and the spirit and to achieve it.

Thanks Marji for the encouragement. I do still struggle with wanting to go back to my old life even prior to my M or to my good days like when my daughter was born when I felt peace and joy. I have a hard time even remembering what that feels like now but I also long for it at the same time.

You are right in that I am really not used to this new reality that has so many twists and turns. I have been thrust into a new world and I’m not acclimated yet. It’s weird for me to think this is my new normal? It doesn’t feel like my life, maybe because it shouldn’t be. I just can’t or don’t want to give up with 3 kids in the mix. I don’t even mean On my M, I mean on our healing and mental health.

@JIMA, I've been following this but have not been sure how to respond. But you need to know, mood stabilizers are not effective for personality disorders. They are prescribed for bi-polar. It seems to me that his IC is working on reaching a diagnosis, and that can take time. Be prepared for a bumpy road.

Update- NC has saved my life and my sanity. I have reached a place where my life no longer revolves around him. I still think about him every day, but with detachment. The ruminations have stopped. I still talk to his sister occasionally but have said I won't discuss him, so I don't know anything about how he's doing.

My PTSD symptoms are not gone, but have greatly diminished. I got his divorce paperwork in the mail and he is not going to fight me (he included unnecessary emotional phrases like 'trying to make things easier for redfury' on legal documents, so I'm sure even this is a hoover attempt). We have court on the 20th and I'm hopeful the judge will sign off that day. Sunday morning I woke up to a letter and mix CD clipped to my mailbox (which means he was creeping around my place Saturday night, but oh well) as well as security alerts on my email accounts. He was not able to access my email and I threw the letter away without reading it.

I feel really good. I've been more productive than I have in ages, although I'm still kind of lazy. I'm feeling ready to be through with this stage of my life and on to the next.

Great to hear redfury. It probably won't be a straight line, but it does get better with continuous NC. Keep it up!

It’s weird for me to think this is my new normal? It doesn’t feel like my life, maybe because it shouldn’t be. I just can’t or don’t want to give up with 3 kids in the mix. I don’t even mean On my M, I mean on our healing and mental health.

You always write with such depth and sensitivity. You have a an amazing ability to put this stuff, that so many of us feel, into clear and helpful words. I wonder if you realize how helpful you are.

But JIMA, I don't know about the "shouldn't be" part. Don't think the should and the shouldn't be's come into this really at all.

They shouldn't have done what they did but they did. We shouldn't have been so disrespected but we were. The shoulds are really irrelevant. We have the lives we do; in some ways they are worse than others and in some ways they are better--taking in the totality that goes far beyond them and what they did--and didn't do.

You're blessed with your three children. Some are unable to have children. So yes, you don't want to give up on healing and mental health and you surely won't. You're a feisty, healthy, strong, loving and thoughtful person, JIMA and you're going to be just fine. It's just hard. Takes lots of work and lots of time but it will work and you will come out strong and healthy. And you are and will continue to be the very best mom.

Thanks for saying those things. It’s weird. Hearing nice things about myself, it feels so foreign to me as I just feel so broken most of the time I think I lose sight of it. It feels lost in all th muck.

Just a vent, but..... Why do they just HAVE to find a way to mess up a holiday/birthday/event, even when you are D'd??? Sigh.....

Xwh, during the D proceedings, every year at or on my birthday would email me some something that pertained to the D somehow, seemingly to make sure I "remembered" and maybe to turn my focus to that mess and away from celebrating/being celebrated, to make me feel bad about the situation instead, or whatever. So, this year, I refused to open my email all day on my birthday - I just wasn't going to look, and I was good about it, too; I got to the late afternoon without having opened email at all - any email account. Then, xwh texted. Sigh. Just an informational text, nothing ugly, something he could have included in an email he had sent the previous week, in fact - nothing I had to know right away, which would have justified it being sent via text instead of email..... Yep. It is as if he knew I was not checking email for the reason of avoiding contact by him, though I had said nothing to anyone about it, and, so, he resorted to texting, to be sure I was reminded of the D situation on my birthday, again. Sigh....

So I think the consensus between the IC and physiatrist is bipolar. I don’t know anything about it. The only thing I know is that he does not have breaks from reality so it wasn’t obvious. He is very moody. I do think there is more than this * know he is an addict too and seems to have other issues as well. I feel somehow freed like I wasn’t a bad wife or crazy for thinking tho ha were off.