SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In his mind, I'm sure he is the victim. Poor little guy. Mine was outraged that I would ignore our vows "in sickness and in health" because poor boo was sick and that's why he had to fuck prostitutes. It wasn't his fault, so why was I being so mean? No contact will save your sanity, I swear it.

Oh yes he would try to talk to me about how hard it is being SA and dealing with all of his shame and I would say "don't care. I have told you what I need and if you can't do it then you can't do it. I don't care WHY."

The "in sickness and health" does not cover cheating. Idiots.

I am going to go as no contact as I can. We have a couple of accounts that I need him off of but I can handle that through short, professional emails.

Oh yes he would try to talk to me about how hard it is being SA and dealing with all of his shame and I would say "don't care. I have told you what I need and if you can't do it then you can't do it. I don't care WHY."

The "in sickness and health" does not cover cheating. Idiots.

Yeah, my responses were more "forsaking all others wasn't exactly on your radar" and "I also wouldn't stay married to an arsonist no matter how sad he was".

The suicide threats may be heading your way now. It is manipulation. Even if it isn't manipulation, if you hear them enough you will reach the point I did of not giving a shit whether he succeeds in it or not and that's an awful place to reach. So yep, go as no contact as possible. If he's like my XWH, he'll still sneak the manipulation attempts in when you talk about logistical things. Blah.

He pulled the suicide stuff a few months ago and I called 911 and he hasn't said it again.

My mother attempted suicide when I was 12, which he knows, and he still said he was going to kill himself and then wouldn't answer his phone when I tried to check on him. The cops called me and said they didn't think he was sincerely going to hurt himself.

I hope he doesn't do anything to hurt himself, but if he does, there is nothing I can do to prevent that. We live in a very large city with lots of resources, there are plenty of people here that actually could help him.

Doggiemommy

I think that part of the reason he does this is because I am not around to police him and to accuse him.

It sounds like you only recently learned of your husband's addiction, and I'm so sorry that you have joined this club.

Your post was about him and his illness, but I want to encourage you to focus on you. (I'll come back to him in a bit.) I don't want to scare you, but those of us who have suffered this sort of betrayal can end up with PTSD if we don't take quick steps to deal with our own mental health.

Grounding skills are crucial. You can google them and practice them, so that when you go to a place of trauma, you can keep yourself in the present and not go into fight, flight or freeze mode. Here's a bit from the internet that shares more:

"The front part of our brain, known as the prefrontal cortex, is the rational part where consciousness lives, processing and reasoning occurs, and we make meaning of language. When a trauma occurs, people enter into a fight, flight, or freeze state, which can result in the prefrontal cortex shutting down. The brain becomes somewhat disorganized and overwhelmed because of the trauma, while the body goes into a survival mode and shuts down the higher reasoning and language structures of the brain."

Other things:

1)Have you been tested for STDs? Do so asap, and if you choose to be intimate with him again, insist on a condom. I know that right now you believe his only betrayal is porn, but you can't know for sure.

2) Find a therapist who specializes in betrayal trauma. Go the the website for The International Institute for Trauma and Addiction Professionals. On the top right side is a pulldown menu to find trauma therapists in your area. If there aren't any, know that many are doing virtual sessions now so geographic location shouldn't be a big deal.

3) The first thing my therapist told me to do was to find a 12 step program for spouses of sex addicts like SALifeline or SA-Anon and try at least 6 meetings. Some are back in person but there are many online. You will find others there who have gone thru exactly your situation and who are more than willing to support you and share their experience. You will also be amazed to see other betrayed spouses who have gone through hell and can now laugh and smile. It is possible.

4) Books:

-Waking the Tiger by Peter Levine will explain to you what goes on in your brain due to trauma.

-TINSA: A Neurological Approach to the Treatment of Sex Addiction Paperback by Dr. Michael Barta, a former sex addict who is now a certified CSAT and has been so successful with his treatment program that he's now been asked to set up programs in other states. It's a short, simple book but will explain to you (and to your husband) what is going on with him that allows him to act out this way. It will explain a lot of the things you commented on like his lying to himself and his acting out even though it hurts you, (and him, cause the folks at his office can't be pleased with his long bathroom breaks.)

-Get the book by Vicky Tidwell Palmer called Moving Beyond Betrayal: The 5-Step Boundary Solution for Partners of Sex Addicts, and follow the steps

5) There is a free download available on the website of Dr. Jill Manning called "Betrayal Trauma First Aid" Go to the shop button her website, then to the digital downloads. She has a wealth of other downloads on her website as well.

6) You shouldn't make any lifelong decisions now. But you should get a consult (usually free) with a divorce lawyer, just so that you have information in case your marriage is irreversibly broken as a result of this.

Ok, now more about him. Please understand that he is sick. If love, or hope, or prayer, or anger, or wishes, could make people give up their addictions there wouldn't be alcoholics and drugs addicts, and sex addiction isn't any different. People use those behavior to numb some pain that is deep inside of them. The reason they can't stop is because it's all they know. Because the pain is greater than the consequences. In many cases they can't even identify what causes the pain, let alone have the strength and fortitude to deal with it. Learning to tame an addiction is a long, and lifelong, process. And the reality is that many addicts have other issues going on as well. There are high incidents of dual diagnosis for things like attachment disorder, bipolar disorder, or borderline personality disorder (seldom diagnosed in men for some reason.) And all addicts are narcissistic to at least some extent.

He feels entitled to continue this behavior and to feed his addiction, all while hiding his true identity from me, from the the outside world, and from himself.

Addicts live in a well of shame. They hate themselves, they hate what they do. They are dysfunctional, they operate as victims and they don't think like us. They minimize the consequences and maximize the reward of their behavior. The more you try to control him, the more shame he will feel and the more shame and self loathing he feels, the more he he will act out. He needs to take responsibility for his recovery. I know that is scary as all get out. But trust me on this. Looks up the drama triangle, and do what you need to do to stop that dynamic.

I threw my husband out when I learned about his behavior and told him he needed to seek help. He did, and went for inpatient treatment, where he identified at least some of his core wounds, and did EMDR and learned some other coping skills. While we are not living together - in fact, I filed for legal separation because I wanted to protect my finances in case there were any other surprises - he has been working hard at recovery and has been sober for almost a year. But he's been an addict for decades and it will take time (if ever) for him to fully learn a new way of thinking and prove that he can be trustworthy. Our relationship is friendly, we talk every day and he continues to be a good father. I don't know what the future will bring. But I know now that I'll be OK without him. I'm focused on my own recovery from my betrayal, on staying on my side of the street, and learning new tools so I don't repeat my mistakes.

If your husband starts working on recovery with a CSAT, and you are both stable, you can consider a full therapeutic disclosure with polygraph, but your therapist will know more about that.

Know in your heart of hearts that you didn't do anything to cause any of his behavior. He's an addict and that goes back to core child wounds. Not you. You didn't cause it, you can't control it and you can't cure it.

I hope you find something in here that you can use.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 9:26 PM, July 27th (Tuesday)]

For those of you who have chosen to remain married to a PA - specifically, one who refuses to acknowledge the they have a problem/issue/addiction with the P (and furthermore, who thinks that engaging in compulsive porn use is their right and that it is normal, accepted, and justified, even while at work-ie. "This is my phone and my body! You (the spouse) has NO RIGHT to control that! This is just one example of how I am gaslit by my H), what are some effective coping techniques you use to preserve your mental health, sanity, and to avoid snooping which in the end, only hurts me (the spouse). How do you focus on the positive and constructive qualities possessed by your spouse so that you don't go down the rabbit hole, so to speak, of mistrust, thinking that everything is a lie/fake, the whole marriage is doomed etc. What are some survival tips for the marriage as a spouse of a PA who does not believe in therapy at all, stating that "they can solve their own problems!" (P is not one of them in his mind). He has also "banned" and prohibited me from even introducing the subject of the PA at all, in any capacity. In other words, I cannot express my mistrust, hurt, pain, questions on the subject - any of it. He says that if I bring it up again, that he will file for D. Can anyone relate? How do you focus on the genuine feelings of love you still have for this individual, through it all, through the many transgressions for which they have absolutely no remorse. Any tips, approaches, perceptions, or those who have been here, would be appreciated. Thank you for your time and feedback! Have a great week, all!

Hi doggiemommy. I am sorry to read you are suffering like this. Why do you stay with your husband? You aren't allowed to bring up the PA or that you feel insecure or have trust issues? I am so sorry I just don't see how you can live like that. Asking someone to stay with you after cheating is already too much to ask. And when we offer to try and do that, we should be shown love, respect and kindness. Your husband should be helping you heal. I know this isn't what you want to hear but I just don't see how anyone in good conscious is going to tell you that you should live like this.

Now if you truly cannot leave I guess you could just live separate lives. But if you can't leave now, you could come up with a plan to leave later.

Why are you staying? What does he offer to you that makes it worth putting up with all of this awfulness?

Of course you have concerns and want boundaries. Of course, dear. I am so sorry. Hugs to you. I hate this for you.

I read your post hours ago and I didn't know what to say. The only solution to this is divorce and making a new life without all that bullshit. Your question struck me kind of like "How do I happily endure hell?". I get the idea of coping techniques in an awful situation that you cannot change, like being diagnosed with a terminal illness or being permanently disabled. Then some meditation, therapy, hobbies, support group stuff would come into play. This, though? This flavor of hell doesn't have to be terminal or permanent. I have absolutely no idea how to be happy in this kind of marriage.

Doggiemommy,

Living with an active addict without giving them the power to make you crazy is called "Detaching with Love" and it's the basis of the 'anon' 12 step programs. SA-Anon, SAA-Anon or SALifeline.

But a couple of things to keep in mind:

Addiction, even a PA, is considered a degenerative disorder. It takes more and more to achieve the same 'high' as time goes by. So what may be an addiction to one type of porn today could become an addiction to more hardcore porn later. (think violent, deviant, snuff porn etc. Is he into child porn, cause that could lead to an arrest, or put your own kids at risk) Also, the objectification of women that goes along with porn can lead to objectification of women in terms of affairs and prostitutes. There is a video on the SALifeline page from the founders Steve and Rhyll Croshaw in which Steve talks about his porn addiction and getting arrested for soliciting a prostitute, and how they coped with it as a couple.

He has also "banned" and prohibited me from even introducing the subject of the PA at all, in any capacity ... He says that if I bring it up again, that he will file for D.

You have your reasons for staying in the marriage, I assume, but you are not a little girl and are entitled to be an equal partner, even if you are living with an addict. I encourage you to seek counseling and to read about co-dependency. He is manipulating and blackmailing you, and that's a form of abuse. You say you want to stay with the man you love, but he's leading a double life, and he's told you flat out that his fantasy world is more important to him than you are. Can you live with that?

I encourage you to have a free consult with a divorce attorney, because knowledge is power. You don't need to do anything with the information, but it may help you be more confident. Can you live with him if you find out he gets off watching rape porn? What if he burns through hundreds of dollars a week feeding his addiction, or can't hold a job because of compulsive masturbation? Know what your options are.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 3:49 AM, Friday, August 13th]

Spouses of sex addicts. My husband has overcome his additive behavior. At least for now. I'll never really trust him again. He's doing his best to help me believe that I'm wanted and that he thinks I'm beautiful. The problem is that I just can't hear him. Nothing he says has validity because I know he was attracted to everyone else. I wasn't enough for him, and nothing about me was enough for him to even want to stay faithful.

I've been compared to an impossible standard. He enjoyed porn and strippers. I don't look like them or act like them. He also wanted any woman who would give him validation. There wasn't a 'type', he just wanted them all. That leaves me with the soul crushing knowledge that he wants all women. How can I ever feel confident with a man who behaved that way?

Now I'm left with the carnage and insecurities created by him. I feel so unattractive and at my core I feel like he never loved me if he was capable of that type of betrayal.

Every woman I see is a reminder of what he wanted, and what he wanted wasn't me. Oh my gosh! It hurts so much! I just can't handle the never-ending pain. How do you cope when you're around other women? I hate them all because they're beautiful and happy (or at least able to pretend), and I'm an insecure, miserable mess. I can't even pretend to be happy. I can't be the only one who feels this way.

Hi AllIam

My husband has overcome his additive behavior.

What do you mean by this? My XWS hasn't acted out in a while, but I wouldn't say he has overcome his addictive behavior yet. He promised me he would do a 12 step program, however, he kept putting it off. I kicked him out 7/6 and he told me this week that he is finally starting a 12 step program.

Sex addiction is an addiction in the real sense. So think of an alcoholic or drug addict. Google the term "dry drunk". If your husband has an addiction he needs treatment. I am not saying everyone has to do the 12 steps but it is a good program that has helped many people. No program will help someone that doesn't want help, though.

When my XWS was still living here he told me that he just knew he would never do those things again. But now that he is out of the house and has some clarity, he understands that this will be a lifelong process for him.

I think you are not going to feel confident again until your husband proves himself to be a safe partner. And that will take a very long time.

All I am-

My husband also tells me he thinks I'm beautiful. I mostly don't believe him. Only because we've been together for 25 years, now, and my husband has lied to me for 18 of them. There's no quick fix to get over that kind of long-term deception.

I also am rather agnostic about his recovery. My husband does nothing to really prove or disprove that he's working his recovery vs white knuckling it. I am detached enough that it doesn't matter to me.

That said I do get triggered in particular situations when I'm around women. Not because I feel like I'm not enough, or because there is something wrong with me. (Rather, it's the opposite. There is nothing wrong with me. The issue lies with my husband.)

I trigger, because of the trauma he brought on combined with the fact that my husband isn't doing what i ask/need him to do repair the damage he has caused in our marriage.

Sure, he gets frustrated and upset. But, I just remind him that he's just experiencing consequences of his choices...If he doesn't like it, he's free to make different choices. I'm very clear and direct about my needs. So, it's not like my husband has to engage in mind-reading.

Being mindful really helps me redirect my focus on where it should be, rather than letting my mind go to places that are unhelpful.

All I am.

The problem is that I just can't hear him.

I'm still in early stages so no where near trying to rebuild trust, but I don't think I'll ever believe anything he says to me again. I know that he can lie and gaslight me, so his words are meaningless.

It will all be in the actions - and they will need to be consistent and appropriate, not lovebombing.

I don't come here too often anymore. Frankly, the whole thing is still difficult to bear and I feel I've talked it all out till I'm nauseous. But when I do check, I'm constantly amazed at the intelligence, empathy and wisdom of the collective group. Here we've been handed the king of shit sandwiches and we still find time to care about others, even our SAWHs.

The more time that passes, the more I understand that SA and/or PA is so much MORE than alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. Not worse, necessarily, but more. I think it's possible for someone to become physically addicted to pain killers or beer without the underlying dysfunction that causes most addictions. I am convinced that EVERY SA and PA addict also has a significant mental illness or two, NPD or BP or any of the alphabet collection.

The very worst thing is the damage it does to the partners. We internalize that feeling that we weren't thin enough, sexy enough, etc., and society's POV reinforces it all.

Long ago, an IC told me that an alcoholic (my mother) would find a reason to drink even if there wasn't one. I know, intellectually, that is true of the sick, distorted world of SA too. It's just so much more personal than other addictions.

Kudos and hugs to all of you. SELF CARE is the best thing you can do for yourself, EVERY day.

The more time that passes, the more I understand that SA and/or PA is so much MORE than alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. Not worse, necessarily, but more. I think it's possible for someone to become physically addicted to pain killers or beer without the underlying dysfunction that causes most addictions. I am convinced that EVERY SA and PA addict also has a significant mental illness or two, NPD or BP or any of the alphabet collection.

I agree with this 1000%. This is a real factor to consider when you realize that you're married to a sex addict. It's not just "rehab and 12 steps", though that's not at all easy either. The issue goes deeper.

Lionne,

It's always good to hear from you. I understand your needing to stay away. I find I go feast or famine on this site these days.

We internalize that feeling that we weren't thin enough, sexy enough, etc., and society's POV reinforces it all.

We don't have to do that. An alcoholic doesn't drink because the wine costs more than $100 a bottle or was a certain vintage. A gambler doesn't go only to the high roller rooms. They don't have enough control to be that discriminating. If we accept that they are sick, then we can depersonalize their choices. When it gets right down to it, most of them are likely trying to screw their mothers,re-enact the sexual abuse they suffered, or dominate someone to act out their eroticized rage. (Also, my attending my 12 steps programs for spouses of sex addicts really helped me realize this. I look at the other women and some of them are young and very beautiful, and it helps reinforce that it's not about desirability.)

I'm about 5 years older than my SAWH, and I'm pushing 60, old enough now that I have a double chin and saggy breasts (ok, they were always kind of saggy), and a belly and noticeable cellulite, and my attractiveness is definitely a thing of the past. The affair partners that I know about generally were younger and had bigger breasts. But I actually don't take it as a statement about my attractiveness. For one thing, I know that he started his affairs when I was in my early 40s and I was still quite beautiful then. (I even modeled for a while in my much younger days.) Also, I looked up photos of two of his mistresses and neither was very attractive, IMO. Also, I read some of the email exchanges between my WH and his most recent mistress, and at her core, she's a tramp. She's employed in a professional job, but she's not especially bright or articulate. As I said to my husband, 'Why don't you take her to dinner with your overachieveing, opinionated parents and siblings and see how long she lasts?' (They always made me feel like garbage and they'd eat her alive.) Anyhow, this is a long way of saying that I don't think that their acting out has much to do with us. The only way that I feel it personally is that I assume he'd get angry at me and use that as an excuse to have sex with others. I also know he was unhappy with our sex life, but that's on him, too. He was emotionally anorexic and so I wasn't interested in sex. I told him decades ago that I need some emotional connection/ intimacy to get turned on. He knew that and it was his choice not to fix it, not to be honest with the shrinks he saw and the marriage counselors we went to. I don't think it had anything to do with my looks, or my intelligence. I can be cranky and short-tempered or far too serious sometimes, but I spent most of our marriage overwhelmed because being the adult fell to me. I can think back on 100 experiences that truly enriched his life that he had because of his association with me. That he was too narcissistic to be grateful for that is also on him.

I may not be a catch anymore, but he was lucky to have me. Too bad neither of us realized it.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 12:30 AM, Saturday, August 21st]

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted in a long time but this site was a life saver for me when I discovered my H's EA's/PA's in 2006 and again when, after 6 years of "recovery" he started "acting out" (I hate that term btw) again.

Now he's been in solid recovery for 6 years etc. I still struggle at times but that's another story.

Anyway, a friend's H has finally admitted he needs help and is looking for a CSAT in the London, ON area. They don't know where to begin to look. Does anyone have any ideas?

Best wishes, good luck, and prayers to everyone who is trying to heal from this mess we did NOTHING to deserve! Btw, I almost feel that disclosure reviews, impact letter repeats, etc. should be done again so the SA can review what he/she did through eyes that have gone through more recovery, and we can really state how, even after years, this continues to affect us BS/PSA.

Hey everyone,

I feel bad that I just jumped in, and then out again. So now I've had a chance to read the posts and I agree with Lionne. I'm so glad that SI was around when I was new to all of this and I'm so glad that it's still here. I find that I still need to hear the words of wisdom that have been posted here. Even though my SAH is doing everyone right, this time, I still don't know if I'll ever truly trust. But I'm 60 and as long as he's doing it all and still willing to work on the hardest part which to me isn't being "sober". It's fixing all the character issues that led to this. Right now expressing empathy without first getting a bit (not as bad as in the past) defensive is still hard. Well, anyway, I just wanted to say that I'm at the point where most days I don't even think about "it", that our lives are really very good right now, and we are both still planning a future together. As a therapist said, in life there is never a certainty. So I'm choosing to believe the best, live my best life, and keep working on me. Pushing me to work on myself has been the best gift this thing has given to me.

KatieJ
I send you a PM about therapists in London, Ont.

I don''t know really, why I'm posting.

My husband can't even apologize to me or share any regret that he's completely screwed up my life. Well, he does if I make a big enough of a fuss.

It isn't even worth talking about anymore.

Hopium is a bitch.

So is having breast cancer when your husband is an SA.

Don't get me wrong, he's doing a good job of taking care of me physically after my lumpectomy. I know he's exhausted taking care of the kids and the home, essentially by himself. And my 3 year old has not slept through the night in few months now. Which he is handled by himself.

But, the three year old will grow up, and leave. God willing, I'll still be here. And then we'll have 30+ years of having a marriage that needed to be mended, but my husband chose to do nothing. He thinks being sober every day is making amends.

Maybe by then we can just go our separate ways and just be married on paper. We mostly are anyway, now. I think the rest is just a formality.

I guess having a sex life with your wife isn't even important enough to apologize for his past actions or share any regret..to say it enough that I can actually believe it..

That stings.

I am so so sorry. Your feelings are valid and I can't imagine how hard it is dealing with a serious health issue and all of this pain at the same time. I'm glad he's doing the bare minimum stuff that he should be doing, but I know it fixes nothing.