SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Why by cracky back in my day the menz group was....

I remember those days tred. I pop in on rare occasion too. I'd like to think it's not as hopping as it used to because there's not as much need for it, but unfortunately I doubt that.

So here I am a little over 10 years out and I've noticed something recently. Her A's don't seem to come to mind every day anymore. I don't know if it's that I've reached some kind of milestone, or if it's due to work being a shit show the last two months straight. There are still those times, and some of them are intense, but it doesn't seem to be every day anymore. Hopefully it's a step in the right direction. I guess time will tell.

I hope everyone is well.

Just checking back in. Seems the comments have stalled out on page 50 of part 34. Hope everyone is doing well and those newer to the shit show are improving. Keep your chins up and marching forward.

I will raise my hand as a newbie. Trying to hang in there. Divorce was final in March. The hole that opened up as part of that seems much larger than i expected. The interactions now are very limited and consist of getting the house on the market and her following through on her obligations laid out in the decree. While it seems like the hand i have dealt is standard fare her hand seems to be filled with victim cards. It is tiring.

In news not related to 'the thing' we have skipped over spring and are getting to head right into summer. Rhubarb is plentiful (which nobody seems to know what to do with) and the mushrooms have started appearing in the woods.

It's common for WSes to see themselves as Victims in big Drama Triangles (searchable). IMO, they Victimized themselves by cheating and don't like the consequences.

I also think it's normal for BSes to have a lot of feelings after D; if you thought you had a good M, you suffered a big loss.

Off SI's main topic: in the runup to the First Opium War (1839-1840), the Chinese thought they would have the upper hand because they thought the Brits could not live without Chinese rhubarb.

Thanks for the smile Sisoon. Some might say the Brits were already in decline at that time. Rhubarb may have saved them.

That post about Mt. St. Helens brought back some memories, WTH. On vacation with the daughters. Sprung a rad leak at Dry Falls, Washington. Emptied the pepper into the rad. Limped to a campground close to Mt. St. Helens on the July 4th weekend. The starter quit working when hot. Went into the little town close by (I forget the name) for the July 4th parade and celebration. New starter there on July 5th or so and then south to a bigger town to get a rad repair the next day. One of the towns was Longview but I don't remember which one. The town we went to on July 4th had a flood from the melt that ranged down the creek through the town from St. Helens.

You know the things the kids remember are the adventures and unplanned events. Good times, those. Spent a month on the Oregon coast that year. What a vacation!

Here's my semi-annual check-in that I'm not dead (and my contribution to Part 34 -- don't forget the damned clock.)

Still love all you guys.

You know the things the kids remember are the adventures and unplanned events. Good times, those. Spent a month on the Oregon coast that year. What a vacation!

The best destination is always the adventure.

Guys,

Got a sex question- what does sex mean to you as a guy?

Part of marriage that is fun? Vulnerable with your W?

Background-pre A and even during A sex was good and frequent. However during A, a couple of gross thing happened. I got used when she had been drinking and OM was not around. I figured it out afterwards as she would be treating me like shit and then fuck me (in the good way).

Also, I figured out one night I got sloppy seconds (gross). Not as nightmarish as Waitedtoolong horror, but still super gross. All this was 25 years ago, but we are really just 6 months into R-long limbo.

So, fast forward, and after a great vacation with making love (that is how I feel about it) 3 of 4 nights, we came home. We had a great romantic date after vacation, and came home and I thought we made love. We both were satisfied sexually. She gets up immediately and starts to get dressed. I asked her to stay in bed a few minutes (to talk, afterglow, kiss etc.) She says we just screwed 3 out of 4 nights, and she wants to get dinner started. I told her it was a lot more than screwing for me. Her reply was if it was not screwing, I would be satisfied holding her hand.

What the fuck? I am making myself vulnerable and opening my self emotionally, and going into sex naked (physically and emotionally), and she calls it screwing?? Am I just a good lay? Our sex life had dwindled to close to zero until 6 months ago, and she reached out saying she missed the sex. Did I misread everything and she want my dick, but not the rest of me attached to it? I am feeling used again.

BTW-this is after the first real conversation we had in years about the state of our marriage. I told her how I really really feel about her and marriage and my hopes. She took 100% responsibility for A (finally). The conversation was a couple of weeks ago.

I am really at a loss, and not sure how to talk to her about this.

[This message edited by goingtomakeit at 10:51 AM, Tuesday, June 13th]

Did I misread everything and she want my dick, but not the rest of me attached to it? I am feeling used again.

The answer is most likely both, but not always at the same time. Sometimes it is just sex. Other times its more than that. Sometimes both partners are at different places.
My guess is she wasn't really in the mood for the last round but went with it because you were. That happens in the best of marriages. The resentment afterwards should be explored.
You in IC again? Your M has changed dramatically in the last six months and you might need help adjusting.

Some MC to tighten up on the communication. It sounds like you have been being vulnerable, but is she reciprocating? Do you know what is going on in her head?

Hopefully you've had some further discussions surrounding this in the last week.

what does sex mean to you as a guy?

To me, it means a lot – it is representative of our relationship. When you’re making love, you are both naked – You get to see each other’s scars, bumps, bruises, imperfections. Yet, you do so knowing your partner will still want you and love you, and not use those imperfections to humiliate you. When making love, there is nothing between you – You are skin-to-skin. You are listening to each other doing your best to please the other, to make the time together exciting and pleasurable. There is no way to be more physically intimate with each other than to have part of the man inside the woman. And, knowing you are the only one in the world who gets to enjoy such a precious time with the other makes those moments even more special.

It is reflective of our relationship because this is how I want us to be all the time. I want us to be naked with each other. Not just physically, but mentally, emotionally, spiritually, in every way. When other men began having sex with my WW, in my mind it reduced my value to her. I was no more important to her than the butcher, the coworker, and any other man. I was no longer special to her – I was just another "John".

I understand, too, that sometimes one partner is really horny and needs to release that sexual tension. I believe we as mates are there to meet that need. If my wife were to come to me and say, "Lower your pants – I need your pole!", you bet I’m going to do it! I may be so tired I can only lay there and she have her way with me, but sex is one reason we married. Plus, I’d rather she come to me to have that need / desire met than to call her BF. I believe (and I may be wrong here) that if she knows she can come to me for a good "O", then I have removed 1 reason she may use to cheat. Plus, I WANT to make love with my W (well not this one since we are D’ing), and any excuse I can use to get her in bed I’ll take! I absolutely love that intimate time together!

Oh, man! What a question! I have to think about it....

ETA: bonding, pleasure, acceptance by the person I most want to be accepted by, and above all, the way I show love and acceptance for my W.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:32 PM, Saturday, June 24th]

Beachwalker, beautifully written summation of all that sex means to you and to so many other betrayed men, and women. It was a huge trigger for me, nonetheless, as your detailed and very perceptive appraisal of the meaning of sex and how it informs the nature of our marital relationships, reminded me in a stark and graphic way, of everything that was taken from our marriage, from me as my wife's partner when she conferred this all to her AP in her LTA, and then lied to and deceived me for so long.One he'll of a mindfxxk!

Beachwalker-so helpful and beautifully written. Sorry your WW hurt you so deeply, and I hope you find someone who deserves your love, and loves you physically and emotionally. You sound like a great guy.

Grubs-I am in IC. She does have a lower sex drive than I do. We talked last night. She does not want every tinder time to lead to sex-that is fair. I was really open and told her that for me, sex was the bridge for me to give myself to her emotionally, intellectually, spiritually. I told her I understand women want it the other was around, but it doesn’t work that way for me.

I also told her I just gave up several years ago on her and sex. I was tired of constantly being turned down, and when she did say yes, it was "let’s get this over with". I told her it chipped away at me and my self esteem. I told her I thought a lot about an old GF, and thought that was supposed to be my soulmate and I blew it. But I figured out it was not the old GF I missed, but my youth-and I got my head on straight again. (FYI-I never reached out or contacted old GF-these were just thoughts in my head). I told her I thought she did not love me, I was plan b that she was stuck with.

She said she was sorry. She saw, probably for the first time, what I felt like. I told her I stayed in the marriage because the other parts of my life I liked (my house, travel, money).

Maybe this works, or maybe it doesn’t. I hope it does. I got bad news from the cardiologist, so I am feeling more courageous as I have nothing to lose. With my shortened life expectancy, I can’t run out of money, even if we divorced. (I’m not dying tomorrow, but I think I have less than 10 years).

Beachwalker- I do love my W. I enjoy sex with her. I have been used by her, and I have used her for sex-there are no clean hands here. I also want all the things you wrote about-the connection on all levels. And I feel like I am so fucking close to getting it-I just have to keep at it.

I’ll keep you guys posted.

Sissoon: I think that is a great summation.

Vocalion: Thank you for your complement. And you’re right: That will do a mind job! As with me, my WW is my one-and-only, so for her to be a Serial Cheater, well, that is something I don’t understand nor do I know how to deal with. I wish I had recorded the author’s name here on SI who penned a comment about a first time, and this comment is earlier in this thread. They said,

As a BH who married my WW when we were 22 years old and complete ingenues totally without any sexual experience or history, I can unequivocally state that when your partner/spouse is the first person you have sex with and enjoy an orgasm with, they become the very center of your emotional security, and when, for whatever reason your spouse betrays you, there is an added, more excruciatingly painful dimension. Literally everything you learned about sex and relationships has been blown up in the most devastating, cruel way possible. If there is anything that approaches the realm of unpardonable, this is it IMHO.

Goingtomakeit: Thank you for what you said. My WW also made mention she felt as if she was being used as a "sex doll" when I wanted to make love to her so very frequently. I tried to explain why I felt that way, but I don’t think I succeeded. She mentioned she wouldn’t mind 3 – 4 times per week and I agreed. She also said she likes for an intimate time to not necessarily lead to sex. I can understand that and I had to work at making that change in my thinking when we were partially naked or petting each other. I don’t know about how a woman thinks in that type of scenario, but I can say that as a man once I get that motor going it’s awfully hard to not finish.

Beachwalker: I am the BH who wrote the lines you quoted about the manner in which the coefficient of pain multiplies when you are confronted with the reality that your first and one and only decides to steal everything from you and confer that sweet vulnerability and intimacy on somebody else. In my wife's case, she fell for a very suave, smooth operator of a player who was a bit older and well versed in choosing an opening gambit he crafted to meet the perceived vulnerability he saw in my W. Of course she took the bait after crossing all sorts of boundaries previously in her interactions with this medical lothario, so this reality changes nothing in her awful choice, but does allow me to find empathy for her and this was what brings us closer to reconciliation as we both Darren closer and closer to 80 years of age. I feel for you friend, and I send you wishes for strength.

Hi all you BH’s I think this is the right place to post this. If it should be in general let me know and I will move it. I have only just recently found SI I came across it because it is coming up to our 40th wedding anniversary and she is so happy about that which really triggered me more than most her A was about 22 years ago and lasted about 3 months before the player had had his fun with her and moved on to his next conquest.

I have a few questions that have more than likely been asked before. I just don't have time to go through the whole site looking for them. These are the things that still burn in my head when triggered even after 22 years.

.

1. How do you ever get past the thought of how easily a WW fell for a player that was single more attractive (the type that most girls would go for) than you and be used so easily. Do you ever think that no matter how much work they put in they may fall for it again? In my wife's case she was punching well above her weight with him. He needed help with some music exams and couldn't afford a tutor, so he hit on my wife. She is a very experienced music teacher, and they were working together on an amateur Christmas musical. She really thought he liked her not what he could get from her.

2. This is the one that still gets me the most. When you exchange your wedding vows, romantic intimacy, sex, is something that is an exclusive part of a marriage that no one can come between. When I get triggered the thought of another man ejaculating inside my wife makes that special place of hers seem cheap and dirty and never be the same as before the A. Do you still think the same as me now? If you did and have gotten past it, how?

3.I know a lot of terrible things happen during the A. Why can't I remember details now it's like it's completely gone from my memory?

4 If you like me let WW back in your life how did you deal with the shame especially from male family member's knowing she screw another, and you let her back like your weak male to let this happen?

What we have now is pretty good and I don't want to risk bringing up the past with her. She is not the type of person to sit and talk to. She is extremely explosive when criticized or put in awkward positions. I really made it too easy for her to come back. I didn't know what I know now after reading so many stories here. She just turned up at the door and moved back in (another room} the closest I got for an apology was her telling me I was right, and that he used her. Can't remember how or why but after a few mounts we just end up in the same bed and went back the way we were before the A.

[This message edited by fhtshop at 8:12 PM, Tuesday, June 27th]

Gently, in another post you say you rugswept, and I just don't see how a BS can heal with rugsweeping.

I think you feel weak because you see yourself as weak. You're not. You're probably about as strong as all of us are. You just made some choices in the past that you don't like now.

The thing is: to feel better you're going to have to take risks. Telling your W that you're not willing to make a big celebration over your 40th, because you're still dealing with her A, might be - I don't know, this is just a suggestion - a good start.

What do you fear about your W's blowing up if you want to share your thoughts and feelings about her A? You can't rebuild an M without taking risks.

Also, this thread isn't very active, and you might get more and better ideas if you post a similar thread in General. OTOH, your sitch might just make this thread more active. Your choice ... and you can re-choose if you don't get the support you want.

There's also a therad in this forum for 'those who found out years later'. You apparently found out long ago, but the feelings are coming back years later, so that thread may help you.

There's no search function here, so you'd have to read 1000s of posts to find info on your questions. I think you made the right choice in just asking instead of spinning wheels reading 1000s of posts to catch a few that are relevant.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:08 PM, Wednesday, June 28th]

1. How do you ever get past the thought of how easily a WW fell for a player that was single more attractive (the type that most girls would go for) than you and be used so easily.

She fell for the superficial stuff. Attractiveness and sex just for sex. Loving relationships are built on so much more. If she's been A free for 22 years, it sounds like that she learned that lesson.

When I get triggered the thought of another man ejaculating inside my wife makes that special place of hers seem cheap and dirty and never be the same as before the A.

I divorced likely before any tainting happened, but I really can't swear to that. I did remarry a woman with kids. Obviously not a virgin with a few partners before me. That doesn't make our time together less special. Would it help to consider her two people? Pre A W and Post A WW.

I know a lot of terrible things happen during the A. Why can't I remember details now it's like it's completely gone from my memory?

A trigger a few years ago (friend having an affair), brought me looking for resources to deal with it. My current wife didn't deserve what it did to me. I went back through my IMs with the ex to verify my memory as I was working through it. One thing I had totally forgot was the first ILYBNILWU was done via IM, While I was at work, on my birthday. In retrospect this was her way of trying to do something bad enough that I would just walk away without her having to be the one responsible for calling it. Until that thread, I had no idea that our M was in danger. In reality, that detail wasn't really important other than being a sign I should have ejected then instead of 9 months later. Dwelling on that wouldn't have helped me heal. Because of those points it didn't matter enough for my brain to retain it.

If you like me let WW back in your life how did you deal with the shame especially from male family member's knowing she screw another, and you let her back like your weak male to let this happen?

It's not weak to R. It's much easier to walk away and find someone new or just be alone. It takes someone strong to be willing to give it another chance. To stay with someone who stabbed them in the back, give them another chance, and try to rebuild.

What we have now is pretty good and I don't want to risk bringing up the past with her. She is not the type of person to sit and talk to. She is extremely explosive when criticized or put in awkward positions. I really made it too easy for her to come back.

This is the part of your post that concerns me most. You won't heal if you continue to rugsweep. There's a maxim here that you have to be prepared to lose the marriage before you can save it. Doing what it takes for you to heal does have the chance to end your marriage. You won't be able to reconnect with your WW without working with her to settle your trauma that she caused. Do you want to live like this for another 20 years? It's not going to get better without openly working on it.

Sisson is right, you'll get more responses, if you post a new thread on this is reconciliation or general. Posts here come and go in spurts and lean towards being more social and commiserating than working the work.