SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Apologies in advance if I'm missing a post about this topic already.

I don't follow them closely, so my understanding is that Lily Allen (British singer) and David Harbour (American actor) split up last year with rumors of infidelity reported in the media. Lily Allen just released a new album last week, West End Girl, and OMG the lyrics/details!

Depending on where you are in your SI journey, the songs might be triggering or cathartic, but here's a sample:

I know none of this is your fault, messaging you feels kind of assaultive
Saw your text, that's how I found out, tell me the truth and his motives
I can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth
No, I can't trust anything that comes out of his mouth
How long has it been going on? Is it just sex or is there emotion?
He told me it would stay in hotel rooms, never be out in the open
Why would I trust anything that comes out of his mouth?
Oh, why would I trust anything that comes out of his mouth? -Madeleine

I'm far enough a long now at this point that it doesn't hurt and I don't start ruminating, but man, I remember those early days (years, really) and how much this resonates.

I will say though, that a brief read up on Lily Allen informed me that she cheated on her previous husband at least 2x, so I do find it slightly ironic for a (former?) cheater to put together an album from a betrayed POV. Cheating sucks...

I guess Lily Allen knows how it feels to be betrayed.

Good lyrics.

Sadly, I remember the feelings. I guess sometimes none of it is their fault and sometimes it is

I will say though, that a brief read up on Lily Allen informed me that she cheated on her previous husband at least 2x, so I do find it slightly ironic for a (former?) cheater to put together an album from a betrayed POV

I can see what you are saying here. However I think overall there is understandable lack of empathy for a person who cheats to get cheated on. I have encountered that here and it’s why I rarely lean into my bs stuff here versus continuing to post more with my ws voice.

I can’t say if it’s easier to stomach infidelity after you have inflicted it. Human nature just isn’t that clear cut. A simple example- most of us have all yelled at people but when we are in the receiving end, it’s still not pleasant and doesn’t sting less. Maybe we can identify more with the other’s uncontrollable feelings that caused them to resort to yelling, yet we still may not be able to accept that behavior when we don’t deserve it. And the word deserve can be so loaded too because it invites others to judge one’s worthiness or what they feel that person deserves. Hell, even I have struggled over the years with that towards myself.

But as the others pointed out, regardless of her past relationships, she seemingly was very invested in this one and feels that sting of betrayal as deeply as most. I can relate to that even if someone else may decide it’s hypocrisy.

I love this.

I wasn't aware of any of this. I think all cheaters benefit from being cheated on. This will do her good in the long run.

Lily had an arrangement with David that he was allowed to sleep with other people as long as he was "discreet"; ie, prostitutes, 1-night stands, don't get caught. He broke the rules by having relationships with other people and being so flagrant in his behavior that it became common knowledge in the entertainment community.

The lesson from this, of course, is that healthy open relationships where everyone involved agrees on and respects the boundaries are the exception not the rule. If you don't respect marriage as a sacred covenant that should, by definition, remain "closed" then you can't expect your spouse or anyone outside your marriage to respect it, either.

I applaud Lily Allen for what she's doing. I think it's great she's sharing. I hope that some of her fans listen and learn. Who knows? Maybe she's just given a potentially WS cause for pause.

I don't think she's being hypocritical, certainly don't think she deserved it, and being betrayed by infidelity doesn't fucking benefit anyone, ever, in any way, shape or form.

I don't think she's being hypocritical, certainly don't think she deserved it

I simply cannot understand this perspective. The concept of hypocrisy seems to perfectly align with this situation, if the stated premise is correct.

One simple definition of hypocrisy is acting in a way that goes against your stated beliefs.

If you are publicly stating it's bad to cheat and painful to be cheated on—then proceeding to cheat yourself is an act that directly contradicts your stated moral position. This contradiction is the very essence of hypocrisy. It means setting a moral standard for others or for the relationship that you are unwilling or unable to meet yourself. The act of infidelity itself, especially following strong public condemnation of infidelity, forms a clear, logical link to the definition of hypocrisy because it reveals a double standard.

Now, I don't know the ins and outs here and quite frankly haven't got the sustained interest to delve deeper, but if she cheated and is now throwing a pity party because she's being cheated on, I simply can't figure an alternative definition for that behavior other than hypocrisy. Her current distress over being betrayed would be seen as disingenuous or entirely self-focused, as she had previously inflicted the very same pain on another person. The pain she feels now highlights the very wrongness she previously dismissed, making her current victim status a classic example of situational irony rooted in her own hypocrisy.

and being betrayed by infidelity doesn't fucking benefit anyone, ever, in any way, shape or form.

Again, I must disagree here. I can't speak to what anyone deserves, though personally, I lean toward a philosophy of reciprocal morality or "an eye for an eye" in this specific context. We've all seen bullies get stood up to and get a taste of their own medicine. In my perspective, this kind of direct, lived experience is often the single most effective way to address bullying behavior. My brother in-law, a PhD for that matter, has an idiom that I've always liked. He says as unenlightened and barbaric it may seem, some people just need a smack. I do believe this is true. It frequently humbles the person and forces them to re-evaluate their actions before inflicting pain on another. The benefit, in this difficult situation, is the potential for a powerful and lasting lesson learned through consequence.

Surely the same is true here? If a cheater feels the pain of being cheated on—the betrayal, the loss of trust, the deep emotional trauma—they might think twice before enacting such a betrayal again. The experience could force them to genuinely connect their actions with the profound, negative consequences they have now personally suffered. The "smack" in this analogy is the emotional shock of betrayal, a visceral consequence that cuts through abstract moralizing. While it's a terrible, painful benefit, the lesson learned through direct experience of the consequences is often a more effective deterrent against future bad behavior than simple ethical instruction or moralizing. This difficult lesson could lead to profound personal growth and ethical clarity, ultimately benefiting their future relationships by instilling a deeper empathy for the pain they previously caused.

I suppose the counter argument could be that it normalizes cheating. It could potentially lead to a mind set of: '... well everyone cheats I suppose' but I can't imagine this is the normal response. Most people I know who were cheated on become incredibly anti-cheating. Admittedly that is just my experience. It does seem to be reflected on forums such as this though.

Irrespective I don't believe sympathy is warranted and can't begin to understand the argument that it might be. Look at this situation in any other context, would you have sympathy? Suppose I'm a scammer, stealing money from retirement funds from old people over the phone. Suppose I then grow old and fall victim to the scam? Do you really feel bad for me?

If I'm a thief and rob someone's house on Christmas eve, suppose I then get robbed on Christmas day... etc etc

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 9:30 AM, Friday, October 31st]

Dr. -

It’s simple- many people simply believe cheating is wrong in all circumstances. A better alternative always exists and it is not ever a healthy thing to do. For them to make exceptions to this rule goes against their values.

I share those values, and I do not think myself a hypocrite. I believe in them because I learned that you don’t just hurt your betrayed partner- you damage yourself in the process too. I believe the person who lost the most in my husband’s subsequent affair was my husband. I don’t find that to be hypocrisy.

You seem to have a list of times that cheating is warranted or acceptable, and that’s okay if those are your values.