Was this a mistake? Not even sure this belongs in Reconciliation.....

I presented a timeline to him 2 weeks ago and asked him to account for years worth of questionable locations. He was angry, says I keep blindsiding him every time he thinks we are moving forward, and the next day packed a bag and went to his sister's. That was 2 weeks ago. Zero contact for a week, then our son met with him and told him he really needs to go through this timeline, that if he means he will do ANYTHING to fix this, just do this thing.

He reached out to me a week ago, and we met at a park to talk. It went HORRIBLY. He arrived angry, asked if I would go to counseling, when I said yes but wanted to go through the timeline first, he didn't see the point, said I would never believe him but that he had never been unfaithful to me (though I view enormous amounts of secret porn, commenting on naked women's pictures, keeping a handwritten list of your favorite naked instagram women as infidelity big time). I said but we have established that you have a history of lying to me, so it stands to reason that going through this is reasonable before considering counseling/reconciliation. He immediately got up, said we are DONE, got in his car and drove away. 30 minutes later when I got myself under control I texted him a message saying that I was always willing to try, and never expected him to give up so easily and walk away from our 35 year relationship. All those years of saying how much he loved me and he walked away. No response. 2 more of our kids met to talk with him. Our 4th child told him after how he spoke to me at our meeting, she had no interest in meeting up. According to the two who met with him, he is now blaming me (he did this in our last meeting too, I wasn't meeting his needs, what was he supposed to do?) and saying he will not be scrutinized by going over the timeline.

This response from him when I met with him sent me into a well of pain that I couldn't get under control. I couldn't stop crying, couldn't get past him saying we are done. It wasn't what I expected. I expected him to miss me, be miserable, want to try, be willing. Instead, he was ANGRY. I think he thinks I have done 3 things....poisoned his kids against him (his words), distrusted him and investigated him and not laid it all on the table at once. I explained that I had done it in stages because I legitimately thought he was going to be a danger to himself if I plopped it all out there. I wanted him to have had a base of therapy before I laid it all out. He didn't believe this.

He was, in the past, according to him, always my biggest fan, he called me his beautiful bride, said I was the most beautiful woman in the world, had nicknames for me, etc.... but if I'm being honest most of this was superficial for at least the last 7 or 8 years or more. He had been more interested in his phone than me in person. I'm no saint in this though. I was resentful, bitter, angry about having to have been his mother all these years rather than feeling I had a partner by my side. The alcohol, anger, porn, those were bad enough, but to see him being what I always called his "saint" mode to the rest of the world....nieces, nephews, my sisters, store clerks, restaurant servers, to everyone he was this awesome, friendly, helpful funny guy. I saw that guy sometimes too, but the kids and I were the only ones to see ugly, angry, hateful guy. So which guy is real? I admit that I held him at arm's length with affection. We used to sleep spooned years ago. Now, never, if we even were sleeping in the same room. We used to hold hands, our kisses good morning and goodbye were more than pecks. Not now. Not for quite a while. I sensed something though, my gut was talking to me, and being physically intimate with someone is a vulnerability I was feeling needed more security to express. It is true that our drives NEVER matched. He always wanted more. I always felt like I wasn't doing enough, even when I tried my best.

A family friend recommended a marriage class that I could go to alone, or my husband could go with or whatever. Our friend and his girlfriend go to this class and he says it is great. So I reached out today to see if he was interested. He is. He ordered the books for the class for us and we are set to go Sunday. I'm fairly fearful.

I don't know what really I'm looking for. Your perspective? What do you think? I do know that taking this tiny step made a big difference in not having that pit in my stomach. I feel a little more peace. I know this isn't magic, but I felt like I did SOMETHING. I know my kids would say, why didn't HE do something? It's true.

12 comments posted: Wednesday, November 13th, 2024

It's all on the table now

I'm not sure what I've shared here and what is news, so if this is disjointed or confusing, I apologize.
This past year things have been increasingly bad. I was continuing to be the dependable doormat, taking care of everything, including his grieving sister, planning and executing bil's memorial, meanwhile his face was in his phone 24/7, he ignored me unless it suited him, and he continued to up his acceptance and encouragement of flirting with M, the family friend on his side. I think you knew all this. His porn and alcohol addiction was extreme. I had been promised years prior that both would change, but empty promises. So i spent the summer diving into his timeline, which I stumbled upon while looking through his history and google account. 9 years of looking at every single day showed me that he had many times spent parts of days or series of days off and on at a number of local hotels. That is what triggered me to just look through every single day for 9 years. It took most of the summer. As time went on and I discovered more things I could not explain, behaviors while out on work trips staying at hotels that were not his, being out til all hours of the night, etc.... At one point I found that he was visiting an apartment about 30 minutes from here that we have never known anyone living there. Over the course of a month back in 2017 he was there 3 days for hours at a time. He visited a lawyer on 2 occasions about 45 minutes from here while I was out of town back in 2020. Plenty more, but you get the picture. I created a written timeline, laid it all out to my adult kids, then to my siblings. Finally I confronted him but decided to only get into the current issues, the porn, his behavior with M, his addictions to both alcohol and creepy online content and behavior and mainly what had been going on in the last 4 years from my discovery of hpv in my mouth (he now is trying to claim the doctors were wrong since I never got the definitive test results after they were lost). I left the timeline info out of it because honestly it was so disturbing I was worried he would lose his shit at being found out, become suicidal or aggressive, plus I needed to try to get myself to a more stable position both financially and literally.
I opened a bank account and kept it private. I consulted with a lawyer before the original confrontation, but in late august I had confrontation #1. I asked him to leave, to give me time to process and heal. He did not want to leave. Said it might mean he wouldn't be allowed back. I let him stay a few more days but then couldn't take it anymore and asked him firmly to leave. He went to his sister's house. A few days later after not hearing a word from the sister, who had become a very close friend of mine for the past 10 or so years, I asked if I could stop by and talk. She was home and he was at work. Eventually I started the conversation, asking her what she knew and what he had told her. In true form he had told her that a few months ago he had looked at porn and I had found out and kicked him out. Like seriously.
I filled her in on the truth of the matter, that he was STILL looking at porn at multiple different sites, multiple times a day, plus looking up "hot" "nude" "naked" pics of literally any woman who crossed the tv screen while I sat next to him, every single day, all day long. Add in the alcohol, which has been a HUGE issue for decades and I told her he was flat out lying about some things and grossly minimized most of it. We talked about the HPV, about M, she thinks M is totally awesome, said that is just how she is as far as flirting, when I questioned why she doesn't behave like that with ANY of the other men in our circles, INCLUDING the one single guy, she had no answer. When I told her M had sent a private meme to my husband in messenger which was a joke about anal sex, her face went white. Long story short, she seemed like she understood my side, gets that he rarely if ever takes responsibility and hides guilt in everything and I felt good about the talk. Turns out not to be true, as more recently he told me she told him to watch out for me, that I was planning something.

The next week I had planned to take a short trip to to visit with my sister inlaw, married to my husband's brother. We have a lot in common, get along great and I wanted her perspective as a woman married to the brother of my husband. Even though they didn't grow up together, she gets it. The visit went great, we both got to vent about a lot of things and she was supportive and helpful. I told her the same things I had told my husband's sister, which is to say I didn't get into the timeline from years back.
He had come home while I was gone to take care of the pets, and when I got back he didn't leave. I could feel myself sliding back into what I call the "lukewarm soup" of routine. I was noticing that SIL and niece both were consistently interacting with M's enormous amount of social media posts, big time, meanwhile my occasional posts were ignored. I started to sense what I expected, which was that I would be the bad guy. Whatever.
He started therapy but was minimizing, of course. The therapist recommended 1 session every two weeks, which to me was hugely too little. He made it seem like he drank a little too much and looked at some porn once in a while and that was it. I was distancing myself, doing what I needed to, took a couple more short trips to see family. I started using I instead of WE and he noticed. He confronted me, somewhat angry. We had several other sporadic confrontations. At one point he said "this isn't working" and I said what isn't and he said, this relationship. I said okay, we literally just started this process less than 2 months ago and you have done the bare minimum and I'm supposed to just get over it all and shut the fuck up right?
So somehow we get into a better space, or I'm just accepting the routine again. He had been asking me why my siblings were behaving weird around him and why the kids were behaving strangely. But honestly, his relationship with our kids has been pitiful for many years now. He doesn't reach out, doesn't accept anyone having different opinions or views, and I have always said why do I and the kids get the worst of you? Meanwhile he is "saint" to everyone else to their faces.
So my kids had a conversation with me and said mom, when are you going to finally tell him the rest of the timeline? Being honest, I knew this would be the hardest one of all, so I had been avoiding most definitely. I agreed and had that conversation november 1st. A rough day to say the least.
He was extremely defensive, angry, and had no good explanation for any of it. Had no idea who lived in that apartment, how should he remember anything that long ago, never been to that lawyer's office, and accused me of WANTING to find dirt on him in order to look like the good guy and leave like I always planned. He said he was leaving. I said no, I will leave if you want me to. No he says, but also, why did you agree to leave so quickly? Suspicious of ME?
We go to bed, I say good night, he says nothing. Next morning he has to go to SIL's to oversee a contactor for her. When he comes home he gets his suitcase and starts packing. I ask, are you moving out? He says no, I just can't be here right now. Then says, see ya (literally) and left. That was the last I have heard from him. For our kids birthdays he texted them, saying he wanted them to hear "his side". They both told him their birthday was not the time. Then he asked about plans, they told him and he said have fun.
So, I'm here at the house. My kids and their significant others are being so supportive and encouraging to me.
Quite honestly I expect papers from him at any time, especially given his silence and running. It won't matter because of the state I live in. He basically accused me of snooping on him, but when I pointed out I had NEVER needed to do so or worried before and I was 100% justified in digging after his behavior, he had nothing. So no defense. Nothing legitimate anyway, one lame attempt at explaining a super weird few days years back. Basically trying to say it is normal to do interviews and training in hotel rooms, specifically hotels that do not have conference rooms and aren't typically used for training. The rest of the written timeline he took with him to his sister's and I haven't heard a peep. This to me damns him even more. Instead of fighting for me, explaining in any way he could, he makes me the bad guy and runs.
I've since been told by SIL that he group texted all of his siblings to tell them we were having problems and he was at his sister's house and if they wanted to hear his side of the story to let him know.
So that's my dumpster fire of a life at the moment. I love my kids so much though and this is only making our relationships so much better.
Thanks for letting me dump. I'm not crazy. I'm not the bad guy. I've done nothing wrong. I keep saying that like a mantra.

10 comments posted: Wednesday, November 6th, 2024

What does "putting in the work" look like?

I've asked my WH to leave, to give me space to heal and not be consumed with anger and pain every time I look at him while it seems he was quickly going back to same Ole same ole. Yes, he reached out to 2 counselors, set 1 appointment and filled out info for the 2nd. Yes, he shows me his phone, credit card statements, whatever I ask. But he didn't want to leave. I haven't seen a single teardrop. I told him HE needs to do the work to prove himself, stop lying to me or "forgetting" things. He says it is because he is terrified.

But what DO I need to see from him in terms of behavior and words? I truly don't know what "doing the work" should look like. He is putting accountability software on his phone and laptop, but yet again that seems like me being babysitter, again.

He is leaving the house tomorrow, for an undetermined period of time, a week or 2 i would guess, bare minimum until he starts therapy. Until I don't feel the level of pain I feel now I guess.

12 comments posted: Wednesday, August 28th, 2024

4 hour confrontation yesterday

I had finally finished digging through his maps timeline, told the loved ones I wanted to know, got std testing, talked to a lawyer. After talking to the lawyer I saw how horribly I would financially suffer. It is so unfair. There would be virtually no way for me to stay in my home. So I decided on a partial confrontation because this will give me time to get his debt managed and paid, get a newer vehicle for myself and get on better ground money-wise. He very recently more than doubled his income and walking away from that just seems like bullshit. Like, he gets to keep the house if he wants, and i just get screwed. Yes, I'd be free, but it would just be an incredible struggle.

I brought up everything, included the lying, alcoholism, debt, porn, commenting on erotic instagram model photos, seeking them out, keeping a list of names, his inappropriate behavior with a family friend. I had him open up the websites for all the credit cards and went through every available statement.

He admitted to none of it at first. Only ever admitted what I specifically brought up. I told him I wanted us to physically separate, and for him to go to his sibling's house, so that I could mentally and emotionally do some healing and he could put all his efforts into intensive therapy. He has a message in at a local church but also set up online counseling starting in a couple weeks. He swears he will not look at porn anymore, will not seek out pictures or drink. I don't believe him and don't trust him and he understands that. He takes 100% of the blame and understands the work is his to do.

I'm leaving the confrontation here and not bringing up the timeline that shows him over the years at a number of local hotels for short periods, and one span off and on for 3 days. There are several instances of checking in at one hotel during work trade shows out of town, but then bopping back and forth to a different hotel until the wee hours of the morning. I'm not getting into that yet. He still SWEARS no infidelity ever. I don't believe that.

I, however, do not feel any better at all. Not that I expected much, but I think I feel worse. He is still here, said he would move into another bedroom and agreed to no physical contact. He thought that me being able to know where he was all the time was important.
Im not feeling that necessity though, in reality what i think is he doesn't want anyone to see us separated. He said he would stay out of my way. He is doing that today but it doesn't feel like me getting time to heal. It feels like him still here, ignoring me.

8 comments posted: Monday, August 26th, 2024

D day approaches....

I finished checking evey single day on his maps timeline, and put it all into a document. Compared the timeline to some credit card bills and voila, the checking out of his "real" hotel during a business trip, followed by an hour at a comfort suites before coming home was no wrong ping. Dates matched a comfort Inn charge on one of the credit cards. Indisputable proof, which is all I really wanted. I know some here thought I was dragging it out or pain shopping, but truly I wanted to know 100% that all these mounds of evidence in the timeline wasn't just circumstantial combined with wrong pings. Foolish hope I guess.

Std testing is done and so far all clear. I talk to my grown sons on Thursday, then attorneys, then my sisters, then d day likely next week. I'll have one son at the house and plan to do it on the porch, so I can leave if I need to easily. I'm certain he will at least start off supremely pissed. I also don't plan to show my hand at all as far as how I know, just gently encourage him to come clean. It'll be difficult to not lose my shit but I want any truth I can get. I'll play it by ear after that.

What I can't wrap my head around is he is constantly looking up nude or "hot" pics of any woman he can, constantly watching porn, most recently looked up hotel suites in "ABC" city with a pool in the room, yet stops me often at home and asks me for a sweet kiss, rests his hand on my hip while we sleep and has tried to put the moves on me a couple times. Is he 2 separate human beings??? Who does this???

2 comments posted: Tuesday, August 13th, 2024

Found a handwritten list

Hello.

I hope I don't have to repeat my story too much so far. I'm not sure who has read it. Maybe a quick summary.

Arrived here 4 years ago after an HPV spot in my mouth. He denied ANY wrongdoing, except looking at half naked Instagram and tumblr photos, liking and commenting. I stupidly chose to believe him. Other issues like lying, heavy drinking, spending, continued. More recently his inappropriate behavior around a family friend made me suspicious. I found a LOT of visits to porn sites, but also stumbled on his Google maps timeline going back to mid-2015. Not knowing how accurate it is, but seeing stops at a number of different local hotels over the years and some bouncing between 2 different hotels during out of town work trips. Quite a decent amount of suspicious stops.

I've been scouring every bit of this timeline and documenting it. This is for me. For me to know whatever I can. Once I know it all I am confronting him. 2 adult kids know, 2 more will know shortly. I have a check for stds coming in early august. I'm now searching receipts, phone bills and credit card statements. It's taking a while because I don't want him clued in until I'm ready.

Just found a handwritten note with 20 different names of women. When I search a few of them at once, I get (website address deleted by staff) as the website. Anyone familiar with this? At this point I'm trying to find out if it is all virtual or he has graduated to sex workers. I tracked him just yesterday via Google maps timeline to a hotel about 90 minutes away. He was supposed yo be working....visiting clients. Of course in the back of my mind I'm concerned that many of these "stops" were inaccurate. I turned my own tracking on so I could see how accurate it is. It's maybe 75% accurate I would estimate. But this list is handwritten. That's different. My gut tells me he is paying for things, just not sure what.

I know it's not really healthy to keep this up so long, and I *should* have enough proof at this point. I want as much as I can get though. I want it to be irrefutable.

16 comments posted: Thursday, July 25th, 2024

Is this what being a "low maintenence" person gets us?

I have always prided myself on being low maintenance. I don't get massages, get my hair colored, go to salons, get fake nails, buy convenience foods. I shop almost exclusively for clothes at thrift stores (still cute though). I do 90% of the outdoor work, would rather DIY than call someone, would rather go for a hike than get jewelry. I'm not materialistic. But have I undervalued myself by being low maintenance?

I see plenty of women whose husbands help carry their luggage, pitch in if they see them struggling, automatically get them a drink at a party, help them with projects. I've always wanted to be the strong one, the "I can do it myself if I have to" one. But this seems to have set me up as the Cinderella of life. The one who cooks, cleans, works, takes care of the garden, the kids, buys the gifts, plans and executes the parties. What does he do? Orders shit on Amazon. Boom, push a button, aren't I a great guy? See what I did for you?

Are a lot of BS low maintenance? Taken for granted? Too nice?

I put a new flower bed in a couple months ago. Some native plants my son gave me for mother's day, some from his yard, and some dahlia tubers I dug up and saved from last year. I moved an entire load of firewood onto a holder I MADE MYSELF . This firewood he had ordered, showed the guys where to dump it and there it laid for a YEAR, looking like shit. I was so proud of this project, realized once I moved the firewood that I had a ready made flower bed, perfect to plant up with my gifts and dahlias. I planted them, used the leftover wood chips as mulch and voila, instant flower bed. That was at least 6 weeks ago. I told him all about it. Showed him what I did. I was so proud. He saw me watering it every once in a while.

They were finally growing. Maybe a foot tall. A few weeds in there too, but not bad. A month ago he hired a lawn guy to cut and they cut down several of my plants. I complained about that to him. But what did he do today? Cut it all to the ground with the edger. I was screaming mad. I had gone out to finish the edging because the trimmer had broken while he was using it.
I drove to my son's to borrow his, came back and got started. It wasn't long before I saw what he had done. If he ever listened to a word I said he would have known.

He is sooo sooo sorry, wants to know what the plants are so he can buy more. Ffs. I am just disgusted. DD#2 cannot come soon enough.

Also just found out he lied to me, about, of all things, my own birthday cake. Insisted we HAD to go to niece's house on my bday because she had a surprise cake for me. His flirt friend who calls me auntie was going to be there. Just saw a text where he ASKED niece to pick up my cake. Wtf. And guess who brought it out to me after my kids and grandkids had already left? Yep, patty. The one I saw him put his hand out on her chair for her to sit on, the night I had just thrown a memorial gathering at our home. Right in front of my face. She brings the cake out to me. SHE is who is in the picture with me. Dear God.

11 comments posted: Saturday, July 13th, 2024

All these years, who else knew?

After being together for 35 years years, and finding out he has been doing things, going to hotels, giving me an std, lying, never admitting anything (dd#2 coming soon, right now he is clueless the info I have gathered), I am now left wondering who else knew? Did he really get away with this all these years and no one knew? I think back many years ago in college a friend habitually cheated on his girlfriend. I remember thinking, how does she not know, she has to know?! We weren't close and I was young and stupid so I never told her. They eventually married and were together for over 20 years. I later learned he ended up getting another woman pregnant and leaving her for the OW. I know many, many people knew he did this to her over the years. Im guessing no one else told her either.

Did multiple people know what my husband has done for years? Friends, family, coworkers?? I keep considering calling certain people, just to ask them to be honest with me. Bad idea though right? Do we all want to know who else knew and never said a word?

25 comments posted: Sunday, July 7th, 2024

Telling my daughters

My adult daughters know a good amount of our issues. 4 years ago the youngest was home (19 at the time) when I couldn't take it anymore and loudly confronted him about the HPV spot i had surgically removed from my mouth. She later told me she didn't believe his denials about cheating. So here we are 4 years later and I've decided to talk to my girls about this. They have seen his bad and his good. They rent a house together so I'm heading over after work to lay it out. Kinda terrified but kinda relieved. The only others who know are here and in another online group that I have been a part of for 26 years.

In the back of my head, I am hoping they will say, oh mom, you are overthinking this. Hoping they will say, just seeing these routes showing him going to local hotels, or seeing business trip routes showing him bopping back and forth from one hotel to the next at 2 and 3am doesn't mean an affair. But it probably does, right? One daughter is firm and hardworking and doesn't tolerate bullshit. The other is more of a "feeler", more inclined to see grays over black and white and sees the "maybe" in situations. I think each of them are a little like me in different ways, so I'm feeling good about this talk. I'll be careful how I do this. He is their father after all.

14 comments posted: Friday, June 28th, 2024

Local hotels for 20 minutes?

So part of what I discovered just about a week ago, Is that my husband has been making visits to local hotels and parks for at least the past 8 years that I can tell.
Some of them are short, 20 or 30 minutes and some of them are 2 and a 1/2 hours. 1 of them was on his birthday, just 3 years ago, At the same time I was going through my father Dying as well as opening up a new business and one of the most stressful times in my life. So, how in the world can I investigate if this is a typical affair or hookers? I feel an incredible need to know

12 comments posted: Tuesday, June 25th, 2024

Back here 4 years later

Hello. 4 years ago I joined up because I had an hpv spot in my mouth. I jumped the gun and confronted before investigating but I was so hurt and caught off guard. He swore fidelity up and down. I just reread my own posts. Sad. The insane end to that story was that my hpv test results on the biopsy were "lost" by ups!?

Now I have proof. Found his Google timeline had been location recording for years. Visits to local hotels, parks, and other locations that make no sense. In the meantime I'm playing the "we are fine" game, in order to gather evidence. For me. 35 years together and everyone, except me and our kids, thinks he is awesome.

So much more to say, unfortunately.

9 comments posted: Tuesday, June 25th, 2024