Does anyone have an idea for a ritual of sorts to get out some of the anger towards APs?
I reserve the vast majority of my anger for my WH, of course, but there is plenty to go around. He humiliated me by going out of his way to introduce me to every woman he cheated with (two physical, one emotional/online-sexual), and even make them my "friends." One was in our wedding-- let's call her Delilah(he didn't technically cheat w/her during our relationship, but remained "friends" with her after having been HER AP before we began dating-- and she remained married throughout). Same to some degree with nearly every one of the dozens of women he "flirted" with in highly inappropriate sexual and romantic ways.
I won't go into the "whys" in this post, I understand how sociopathic it seems (is). But related to this, he never really spoke a negative word about me to any of them. A couple definitely assumed some things-- they'd have to think I was stupid or pathetic or actually approved of his behavior almost by definition. But they were my "friends" partly because he spoke highly of me-- and they met and liked me. 
I feel utterly humiliated after these revelations-- main DDays were Fall of 2022. (FTR, actual affairs were all over arguably at least 18 years ago and even the betrayal-level inappropriate "banter" with the near-APs seems by my surveillance and polygraph to have been 90% over at least 5 years ago... though he never went NC with any of them until 2022 and still considered many "friends.")
SO MANY WOMEN shared these secrets (see Omar Minwalla's "Secret Sexual Basement") with him while he blatantly disrespected me. Since Delilah tried to contact him twice recently with new phone/FB accounts (he blocked her immediately), I have been thinking, too, about his passive behavior with everyone else who has harmed me, in favor of affirming his own "okayness" and not ruffling their feathers lest he lose their "friendship" or whatever. Though anything resembling actual negative talk about me seems to have been mostly limited to Delilah-- and in another way, a couple of his former associates and his family-- he would let them talk a certain amount of sh*t about me and not respond to it-- but not defend me, either. I directly witnessed this with his family-- though he stood up to one member in a majorly affirming way in summer of 2023-- and I saw it in old messages between him and Delilah. She'd make a "subtly" disrespectful remark about me and he would ignore it, but... you shouldn't be ignoring that sh*t!!!??
Lately I keep seeing visions of these women grinding their high heels on my face. And him letting them, of course.
He has thrown them largely under the bus at this point, but I want to do some ritual to just get my aggression out, or put them back in their proper place, or... something.
Figuratively. Of course.
I'm not saying I want to burn them in effigy.... but I'm not NOT saying that. 
Anyone have any ideas? And of how I can maybe involve WH too? He's doing a lot of work to break down and discard this extraordinarily disrespectful, frankly shocking mindset and tendency to "compartmentalize"-- which came both from his narcissistic FOO and from Delilah (she seduced him-- yeah, really-- when he was just 20 and she was older-- then made WH HER husband's friend, in order to have greater access to WH and also for whatever her own f'ed up or sadistic reasons).
WH himself has the vast majority of the h*ll to pay on this issue. Not to mention continued deep work (he now is in three kinds of weekly counseling and starting a fourth).
But for me? Besides living well, being much more beautiful, smarter, and obviously a better person than any of them... And NOT wanting to contact any of them or give them any satisfaction by letting them know I hate them...
Anything you have done or recommend? Thanks.
15 comments posted: Thursday, January 25th, 2024
Questioning friendships in the wake of revelations about your WS
Hi, there. I've posted a dozen+ times but have come back with a new account because my WH/STXWH (a bit in limbo) has been known to read here and I need more privacy.
This is VERY long, but I felt like I had to write it all out to "see" it, you know?
This is really about my "best friend" and other friends, but feel free to skip to the backstory at the end for more info on WH— or skip some of the BFF backstory.
Shortest version is that I’m questioning my friendship with my "BFF" and don’t know how to handle it after she has been basically no support to me this past year of hell. It’s true I didn’t reach out to her a lot— but also true that, especially regarding these terrible marital revelations— she hasn’t reached out to me proactively. Her behavior has not borne any resemblance at all to what I would do in her position. It does remind me of WH's behavior, frankly, and I’ve been forced to question everything about that relationship, so why not this one?Bottom line question— If you’ve found some friends or family terribly lacking in support during your post DDay struggles, what did you do? How did you address this— or not?
WH and I separated almost a year ago around DDay, without absolute intent to divorce, and still with some intent to work things out. While there was (I guess arguably) no active affair, DDay involved revelations that basically our entire relationship had been based on lies, that he had much less empathy and respect for me than I had ever realized, and that women I thought were his "friends" had been his APs/near-APs. Total devastation from a man who I've been with my entire adult life and who is the only man I've slept with.
—
BFF Backstory:
My best friend-- not involved in any of the As, for the record!-- has been my BFF since we were 11 years old, so more than 30 years now. Our friendship has waxed and waned here and there since high school, but we were each other's maids of honor (10 years apart), we lived together briefly during a previous semi-separation of mine and WH’s, I named her a godmother of my kid (really more of a title since we’re somewhat religious but not churchgoers) and when it came down to it, I've considered her like a sister to me. Since we had kids, 10-12 years ago, we've been busy, but she has been especially hard to make plans with— at least relative to what I’d expect from a "best friend."
Pre-COVID, we'd see each other at least 4-6x/year. Not much, considering we're live only 25 minutes from each other, but some. 2020-2021 we saw each other somewhat less, and it never really picked up, though I'd try to make plans. I'd begun to feel like she was sort of an "honorary" BFF. Still a friend, we'd still interact on FB, and text occasionally, but it wasn’t all that much, considering. Now, when we WOULD get together, we could pick up like no time had really passed and talk for hours. Not just about shallow stuff, either. And our brains work somewhat similarly, we’re very intuitive, generous people, remember important things about each other and have shared significant experiences.
However…
I’ve realized over time that our friendship, while not shallow, isn’t as deep as it has been with some other friends I’ve made in the past 5-15+ years. "BFF" comes from a more closed-off, put-a-happy-face-on-it sort of culture (UMC/wealthy WASP) than mine. She is pretty good in a crisis, if it involves rallying troops or supplies or something… well… maybe. But she does come from a very volunteering-oriented family and she literally works in disaster assistance. And there are things she did do for me, like drive 2 hours to my grandfather’s funeral 15 years ago, as he was my first grandparent to pass away (she had barely met him— the support was for me). On the other hand, when my mom (whom she knew much better) had a stroke that same year, at a relatively young age, BFF didn’t visit the hospital, right by BFF's work, and didn’t send my mom a card or anything. When she got married 2 years later, my parents weren’t invited to her wedding, which was large, had a big budget and included acquaintances and so on. The wedding at which I was her matron of honor. And this was just after we lived together for like 6+ months. (Her parents were absolutely invited to and came to my smaller, lower-budget wedding years earlier.) She never discussed it with me, either, like maybe "I wish I could have invited your parents, but..."
So… that’s fine…? Um...
Worse is that I never felt like I could talk to her about those things. That’s a me problem, though. It is important to this post, because I’m starting to wonder if I projected feelings and empathy and my position in her life onto her the way I did onto WH. That is… in a less extreme but significant way, I wonder if I’ve traditionally given passes to a lot of people I shouldn’t. Or blamed myself if something seemed not-quite-right. Or felt I had no right to bring up issues with them.
I also had a miscarriage about 10 years ago, and she was kind to me, but she remarked when she had her own miscarriage about a year later, that she really felt bad for not giving me more support during mine, since she now understood how hard it is. (I was really helpful to her when she had hers.)
I’m now also thinking of two friends who dropped her, whom I thought of as oversensitive at the time. One when we were just 17-18, when BFF was a little too happy-smiley-keep-your-chin-up when the musical hero of another friend died. That still seems oversensitive or whatever— but I assume the other friend was just ready to be done with BFF for possibly related reasons. Like she didn’t feel understood by BFF. Another was when… and this was shortly before or after BFF’s own miscarriage… another friend, also one of her bridesmaids, was having major fertility problems. According to BFF, that friend kind of dumped her when BFF was not really empathizing, but something like being too "optimistic" and giving shallow advice when the friend was looking to vent and cry. BFF did seem regretful about this, but also kind of confused.
I’m also reminded of calling her almost immediately after it happened to tell her my FIL had died suddenly in 2020 and her fairly quickly running out of things to say. Not exactly making it about her, but not giving me space to be upset or talk about whatever. And it kind of clicked for me that she’ll never really be a comfort in crisis.
Now, this is a VERY VERY kind and generous person on the whole. "Nicest person you ever met" and not a shallow person, per se, a fairly deep thinker and so on, but… I remember her telling me when we were young that her family is only friends with "nice people." Like… huh.
I kind of always thought this had something to do with both her culture and the fact her close-in-age only sibling died after a battle with cancer when BFF was only 10. Her parents took her to one counseling session, she refused to talk, and then they never made her go back.
—
This year:
I say all this because… well… when DDay came in Oct/Nov 2022, I didn’t reach out to her. As far as opening up about infidelity and betrayal was concerned, I first reached out to a friend of 5 years who has REALLY been a friend to me, and then I reached out to a few more. As far as separating, I told a few family members and friends proactively, but it was not a secret and I would tell folks who got in touch with me or whom I ran into.
But I didn’t tell my BFF. I just felt like… she wouldn’t be terribly helpful. And she hadn’t really reached out for any significant reason. (I had only wished her a happy birthday days after the final part of DDay and we had a very brief exchange.) Finally, in December about 6 weeks after the first part of DDay and the day I’d moved out, I sent her a text that was like, "I am separated, felt like if I consider you my BFF I should tell you" and we did have a decently long exchange where I revealed "I found out some devastating things, including WH lying to me since the day we met, I’m devastated blah blah."
She was like "oh no, how hard for you, etc., maybe let me take you out to lunch…" but lunch didn’t work out. But she did make it a point to bring her family to my kid’s play a week later, and before the play, sitting in the audience, I did let her in on more of how I was doing and some of the details— not all of the infidelity, because we were in a public place, but some. She nodded very sympathetically, etc.
Then… nothing?
Mid-Feb I threw out that we should chat and be in touch, and I also sort of gave her an out from the fact she hadn’t been in touch much, in case major issues were happening in her life ("you may have things going on I don’t know about" kind of thing). She just said she was busy with work but we should totally talk on the phone— but I don’t think that happened. A week later, I saw she was asking folks to come by her kid’s GS cookie stand, so I grabbed my kid and headed over there for fun. Of course we didn’t really talk about anything substantial, but we saw each other. And I may have been making this tiny hesitation up, but I feel like, when she introduced me to another friend, she said, "This is MyFinalAnswer, my b— friend." As in, I think she started to say "best," but then just said "friend." Like I could swear I heard the beginning of a "B" and then a tiny hesitation.
Okay.
Her kids were invited to my kid’s birthday party a few weeks later. Well, I happened to have a total fluke major medical incident during which I almost died just before that, so when she came with her kids, she sat with me and talked— mostly about the medical issue— although she also had to take some work calls. Then that incident became several related incidents over the next two weeks, and I REALLY almost died, so we were in touch by text about that, and she even briefly came to the hospital on my last admission to give me a good pillow, etc. Very concerned, very kind. During the two weeks after I got out of the hospital, she checked in on me briefly by text… looks like 3 times. Nothing else, like bringing me meals or anything (just that other people did, much less close to me, and I would have done more than that-- I wasn't keeping score then, I just realized eventually). A couple weeks later, I texted her briefly because I’d seen a mutual friend from HS for the first time in about 30 years. Then she wished me a happy birthday and said she’d take me out sometime soon.
That was April.
When my grandmother died a month ago— and they knew each other pretty well, as they had been neighbors when BFF was a kid— I did tell her, and she expressed sadness/condolences and said she’d come to services (planned for a little while from now d/t logistics). I kind of felt like I should tell her.
—
It’s almost September. And now I’m probably-almost-certainly going to divorce. It’s been absolute hell.
And that’s basically what has happened in the past almost-year:
-Absolute devastation and separation.
-I didn’t tell my BFF for 6 weeks because I already felt she wouldn’t be the best support. I HAVE received incredible support from at least a dozen people, and more significant support than her support from dozens more.
-Then we had a text exchange and maybe 30 minutes of live conversation about it.
-Nothing else said about it, no reaching out to me at all about my separation and suffering.
-5 months later, some limited support and reaching out re: my health during the month when I was in the hospital and almost died.
-Happy birthday text from her.
-And now it’s been almost 11 months since DDay.
For sure she could be going through things I’m not privy to but… why not say that? And still do some reaching out? Half of my supportive family and friends have been going through major things this past year, too!
I’m torn between kind of writing her a Dear John letter or actually giving things a chance with a sit down. Like seeing what she talks about and gauging what our relationship actually is and should be, and then expressing my hurt and alienation. I think it would be healthy for me to express myself (in a kind, but honest way), but I might be afraid of being directly confronted with the fact that my BFF is not even capable of really being a friend to me. Yet… that kind of radical honesty and revelation has been so painful, but so illuminating for me in this past year. Alternatively, I could just let things fade mostly away, or change my attitude about the friendship without saying anything (our kids do love each other— though they never see each other much anymore, so…)
What’s fascinating is this is VERY SIMILAR to WH! Even though they’re very different people for the most part. Not much happens with him, historically, unless I am proactive and I make the effort. Like BFF, he seems kind and generous, but he isn’t nearly as good at empathizing with me as I somehow convinced myself he was. Etc. So I think this has something to do with me giving people passes (not that it's my fault, but a pattern), and I think… this is hitting for me in a certain way right now.
It’s awful, especially at a time like this. All advice and thoughts appreciated.
—
Marriage Backstory:
We separated around DDay almost a year ago, without necessarily being certain we would divorce-- I just had to get away and have time to think. DDay involved the discovery of an online A and many borderline EAs/OAs (highly inappropriate "flirting") and after that, a confession of a PA and of his being an AP himself to a WW when he was single, before we met. All of those that took place during our marriage had ended by ~2005, with the highly inappropriate banter mostly ending by 2009, basically all ending by 2018... except he was still "friends" with literally all of these people in some capacity.
So.
During our separation we mostly did not stop seeing each other and talking things out. There were some days/weeks and one month where we did stop talking almost entirely, except about our child, etc. He showed remorse and did take some good steps (NC with everyone, regular IC, eventually reading NJF, etc.), dragging his feet with others (no written timelines, though he tried to get a lot out verbally in recordings with me-- plus a general lack of initiative, not doing other things for me, struggling sometimes with respect/empathy for me, etc), and also doing some damage (reacting outrageously when I went out one time with a male friend-- as a friend-- realized I was attracted to the friend, and cut it off-- with no flirting or anything like that involved). Then things went further downhill, and I got to the point about 2 weeks ago that I told him we were divorcing, told our kid (in order to "make it real"), etc. I'm still struggling and would say I am smoking a tiny bit of hopium on the order of giving it a 1% chance-- but I'm proceeding with divorce prep.
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11 comments posted: Monday, August 28th, 2023
