Does he see the irony? (Vent in disguise)

Hi, I suppose my question is really for WS, so it might be mis-posted, but here goes:
Over the last few months, my WH has encountered people through work who have lied very brazenly to him and then been discovered to have lied. His attitude to them is contemptuous, and he has even said that he will not be able to trust them again because of their lies.
This obviously has lead me, as a listener, to think: ‘I sincerely hope you realise the irony of what you are saying.’ I have waggled my eyebrows meaningfully at these times and did, once, raise the irony directly. (Our discussions occurred when we were getting on really well and I was not particularly triggered). His view is that he made a terrible error that he has learned from but isn’t in the same league…
I think that he now thinks he is back on track as an honest person, but I suppose I would like to know if he is not making any connection with the deceitful behaviour of others and his own months of elaborately constructed deceptions and blatant lying to direct questions.
Not quite sure what my question is… just: can WS be this unaware? Do I need to point it out explicitly?

13 comments posted: Tuesday, November 26th, 2024

Honest or waving a big red flag?

Hi, things are going as well as expected for me and WH at this stage. This week we have spoken about his infidelity (a planned night away with a ‘random married person’ he deliberately met online in order to have ‘just sex’ - his words, absolutely not mine). It was odd, because we spoke with a bit less emotion and a bit more matter-of-factness about things.
My WH decided a while ago that he was interested in having sex with other people, having an ‘open marriage’ (unilateral and not agreed to by me) and this year carried through with his ‘desire’ to sleep with someone other than his apparently’vanilla’ wife (me). To be clear, he did not tell me how he felt until a few months before his infidelity ; at that point, he was behaving horribly to me and the family, as if we prevented him from fulfilment. His communication about his ‘wants’ were simply angry threats riddled with abusive phrases, rather than proper discussion.
In our discussion this week, he made it quite clear that he still would like to have sex with other people, he feels that this is his ‘identity’; however, he said that his infidelity taught him that if it is a choice between promiscuity as a single person or monogamy with me, he has chosen the latter. He has spent a long time reevaluating his values and approach and has made huge changes since DDay.

I suppose I am wondering if I should respect his honesty and be glad that he has thought carefully about what he is drawn to do and has made a decision to value me over that, or if I should be super worried that this is still some he feels he would want to do if I agreed to an open marriage.
To be clear, he has not remotely suggested an open marriage since DDay, and has repeatedly stated that he has utterly seen what he values most.

I suppose I just do not have the same urge to sleep with other people in a real world sense, even if I find them attractive, as I value monogamy beyond anything; I can’t imagine feeling as he does.

Should I respect his honesty or get scared? Or am I just being very small minded; perhaps most people actually feel like him? Is it realistic to expect him to stick to what he says now if he still has those sentiments?

19 comments posted: Monday, November 4th, 2024

Someone at a Distance by Dorothy Whipple

Just finished this fiction book written and set in 1950s. It basically tracks an affair (no actual mention of sex) that devastates a happy family.
It’s not psychologically deep and ends too neatly, but the description of the BS’s feelings and physical symptoms rang true to me, and it details the wider effects on children. A ‘gentle’ read about the destructive nature of a selfish choice. I found it comforting to read some mirroring of my feelings.

0 comment posted: Tuesday, October 29th, 2024

Just feeling a bit sad

Sorry: this is just an unhelpful vent.
Just feeling very sad today that so much work now has to be done to repair our marriage beyond the work of just keeping a marriage and family alive anyway.
I am an old romantic, but I never would have cheated. Never. I just feel sad and tired WH chose this route for us.
Thanks for being out there and giving me this space.

4 comments posted: Wednesday, October 23rd, 2024

Road map?

Hi,
I am wondering if there is a generic ‘road map’ of recovery/ reconciliation?
I ask this because things like the POLF pop up as things many experience, but they aren’t on most recovery trajectories.
Totally realise that everyone has different time frames, but there seem to be a number of common stages that people mention.
Many thanks.

6 comments posted: Friday, October 11th, 2024

Panic out of nowhere

Hi, I have been doing really well for the last few weeks. WH has been reassuring and doing all the right things; we’ve been getting on, just not spending as much time together as we had been doing as we moving into a slightly less ‘crisis control’ zone.
However, been having racing heartbeat and feelings of utter panic/ dread over the last couple of days.
Is this normal? There are no specific triggers.
Just wanted to share in the hope of normalising this.
Thanks.

7 comments posted: Tuesday, October 8th, 2024

Avoiding asking ‘needy’ questions

I am clear and confident that I will be able to stick to my boundaries/ leave the M if my boundaries are broken.
I also haven’t had any new or pressing questions for my WH for a few weeks now.

However, from time to time this week, I have felt the overwhelming urge to ask ‘needy questions’, even though WH has been proactive in giving me reassurance. These are all comparative questions, like: ‘Do you like me more than her?’ ‘Am I more attractive than her?’ etc. I am holding myself back from asking them, and he has told me the answers in many ways, many times, but I suddenly feel so desperate to ask these unproductive questions.
I am 9 months out from Dday, with some trickle truth thrown in, but no new ‘big info’.
Is this par for the course?
I am currently typing the questions in to my phone and then writing ‘Hell, yes’ next to them.

10 comments posted: Monday, September 30th, 2024

Should WS ‘recognise’ themselves?

My WS and I were talking the other day, and I said how the A still seemed surreal, even though my logical brain has now accepted that it happened. The infidelity happened in January and seems to have been a one-off, one-time (planned) random meet up. (I still use the word ‘seems’).

My WS agreed and, after apologising for his actions again, said that he, too, felt the same, like his actions were from another world. He found it hard to recognise himself now in his actions and behaviour during his infidelity.

This was very comforting in some ways (he can see that the behaviour was utterly unjustified, etc., and his actions do not match the person he thought he was and now wants to be). Effectively, he could understand the horror of his actions from a third-person perspective now the bubble has burst.

However, I then wondered if this means he has separated himself from his own actions. In the past, he has acknowledged the need for a total overhaul of his coping skills and treatment of the family/me, but I wonder if he is making too much of a division between himself now and then.

Do you think this is a good way of him thinking or one tinged with denial?

5 comments posted: Wednesday, September 25th, 2024

So, is that it?

How do I know when I have got the truth?
How do I decide when I have got enough truth? (How to decide I know enough?)

Polygraphs aren’t really a thing here in the UK.

I feel I have now got the true answers to all the big factual questions about my WH’s infidelity. Any gut instinct doubt about his story that didn’t feel ‘right’ turned out to be well-founded, and accurately signalled a lie. My gut instinct is now quiet… I am feeling quite ‘still’ in terms of questions. However, my gut instinct might just not have detected everything yet…

There’s lots more I could ask, but I actually don’t feel the need to given where I am mentally at the moment (which is kind of detached and looking at things more factually but with a tinge of anger/ hope).

However, there could be a whole other world of infidelity that I simply haven’t cottoned on to or uncovered yet.

Do you reach a point when you just accept that you have the truth you need and work forward (understanding that something else could surface)?

9 comments posted: Tuesday, September 17th, 2024

How do you know you are 'reconciled'?

For those of you who have decided that you are 'reconciled' with your WS, how did you know you had reached the point where you could define yourself as such?
Although you are 'reconciled', does this still mean that you suffer triggers, etc., or is part of being reconciled accepting that such things will always be there, but the rest of the relationship feels solid? (and how do you know when things feel solid?...)

(And in case you are wondering, I am not going to be in that place any time soon, but I am just interested.)

10 comments posted: Saturday, September 14th, 2024

Really really nice weekend, so why the trembles?

My WH and I just had an absolutely wonderful weekend. We got on better than we have for years (very much the pattern since D-Day), and just had lots of small moments of fun, tenderness and enjoying each other’s company in a day to day way.

I want to really celebrate this, but I have also had lots more mind movies and fearful trembles this morning. I would like to know why I can’t just accept that this genuine happiness could be how our future could be without the underlying ‘shaking’ fear playing over and over. It’s almost like the better things get, the more I fear it being a facade.
Anyone else has this when things are good?
Anyone got any tips on how to not mess it up?

16 comments posted: Thursday, September 12th, 2024

Well, that was a bit rubbish. Two questions: how to decide dealbreakers and is this just a bump in the road?

I have two questions which I would value advice on.

1. Is this a bump in the road, or are the red flags a-waving?
My WH has been pretty good since D-Day in January this year. I THOUGHT I had all of the truth that I had asked for (after initial trickle truth) and he has shown repeated remorse, reassurance and - most of all - he really has changed his behaviour day to day. His temper was a huge deal years before his infidelity, but he has not shown this even in the most trying of circumstances, saying that he needs to transform all of his behaviour in the family, not just his fidelity. This behavioural change, as well as clear acceptance of my deal-breakers (see below - question 2!), has actually been the more important change, as I was not (and will not be) prepared to live on eggshells again. It's really been lovely to be with him and, even though I have been very traumatised by the infidelity, things have been going well. He has also been super patient about listening to my worries and reassuring me.
However, the other day, I raised a question about the truth - the real name of the OW, which he has repeatedly told me he never knew, (see below) and he went into complete 'fight' mode. I will preface this by saying that he had consumed quite a lot of alcohol. However, he completely refused to answer the question, saying it was the one question he was not prepared to answer, and that he had told me absolutely everything else [I do actually believe this], but if he told me the answer to this, it would mean divorce for us. He said he knew I would go after her and ruin her life (not true, but there are good reasons not to know - see question 2). Instead, he told me that I needed to stop being self-indulgent, move on and look to our future, to which he is completely committed. He said that he was the only person responsible for our marriage, not her. He said that me even asking the question reminded him of why he had been unfaithful to me as it showed how small-minded and focussed on the past I am. So, the list of red-flags were: threatening divorce, refusing to give the truth, calling me venomous names (I haven't quoted them here, but...), protecting the OW ["she didn't want to harm you or her family..."], saying he had made a terrible 'mistake' (minimising) and basically, not 'getting it'

The next day, sobered up, he was much more caring and he said that he would tell me the name if I really wanted it, but he did not want a nuclear bomb thrown into her family - I should just blame him for his infidelity; the OW was interchangeable with anyone he could have met online for a NSA hook-up and had nothing I could possibly be jealous of.

For those of you who have had longer reconciling - or are successfully reconciled, I just wonder if you think I should take this one-off (so far) outburst as a terrible red flag, or if I should think of this as a bump in the road on a long healing process with a seemingly-committed, normally sober WH?

Question 2: How does one decide dealbreakers? This is linked to above. My clear, stated deal-breakers are that:
a) There should be N/C with the OW
b) No more chat sites, dating sites, etc. EVER and no private messages (he suggested this one)
c) No sex/physical intimacy with anyone else EVER
I am very clear with myself that these will immediately mean the end of our marriage.

The one thing I THINK I want to know which WH hasn't told me is the identity of the OW (I have mentioned this before in a different post). I am wondering if this is actually something I DO want to know, or if I am simply treating it like a test of loyalty (he is affirming their agreement and not our marriage vows). The fact is that, whilst I want him to tell me the truth - simply because it is the truth - I am not actually sure if knowing will help me move on. I know I won't be able to help looking her up, and - even if he affaired down as he said he did - that is still not going to put me in a healing place. There will always be another question to ask. So, in one way, he is right - I really just need to focus on blaming him and working on the future... I feel powerless, jealous, etc., but should I make this a deal breaker or not? I know that if I make it a deal breaker, I can't go back on that.

Agh! Advice, please! Many thanks.

45 comments posted: Saturday, September 7th, 2024

Where does the balance lie?

Hi,
Sorry that I have been posting a lot; I just found this site and people's advice and support has been invaluable. Here is something I am wrestling with at the moment.

I am wondering where the balance lies between venting/ voicing every new question and angry moment and trying to take control of questions and thoughts. What is the difference between rug-sweeping and consciously trying to take control for one's own benefit? There are two things that specifically arise: imagined mind-movies and the underlying question: 'Why do you care now when you didn't care then?' However, at times, I can have all sort of micro-questions about their encounter that, ultimately, won't help other than enable me to imagine it more vividly (which is not wanted).

My WH has been (almost always) patient about answering questions and just listening, as well as picking up when I am feeling rubbish about his infidelity and giving me a hug, reassurance without me asking.

There are times I feel that he needs to experience every last ounce of the hurt and confusion I feel, in real time. However, there are also times when I think I need to control and filter what I say/ ask because, ultimately, I don't want it dominating my own thoughts, let alone all the time we spend with each other. Also, to some extent, I want to show him that I DO appreciate all the wider work he has done on himself since D-Day, which has been very heartening and meant a real change in the atmosphere of the home as a whole. Most of the time, I feel we can work through this given time and if we keep focussed as we have done.

I am 8 months out from D-Day, and have now got to a point where I am not thinking about the A constantly and feeling sick about it every minute; I acknowledge this is still very early days in healing. I am just wondering if, to heal at this stage, it is better to try to 'control' thoughts or to let them ride? Is it best to save thoughts and questions for an agreed space and time, when I have had a chance to weigh up how much further information would help, or is it best to just vent on the spur of the moment?

I think my main fear is that, if I stop bringing things up, WH will forget that it happened or not realise the extent of the pain he has caused. He says he won't but, my fear is that he will.

8 comments posted: Tuesday, August 27th, 2024

Getting on the horse again...

Hi,
My WH had a planned ONS at a cosy rental cottage in an area of our county which I love, and which we often enjoyed as a couple and family. (Ouch) This was a few months ago.
I would say that R is going very well in lots of ways, given that it is very very early days, and that my WH has a number of individual and big issues he needs to work through.
However, family friends have invited us away for a get-together in exactly the area WH met up for sex (I know the exact holiday cottage).
I am in several minds about what to do. I know I will be triggered by going to this area, as we have to drive past the signs to the place. However, I also feel that I do not want such a beautiful place tarnished and off-limits to me because of a something I didn't do and something so selfish. I feel that if I don't go, the infidelity will have won and 'conquered' a place I love. It is also a chance for WH and me to have a nice time!

Does anyone have any suggestions about what is best to do? Should I face the trigger and get it over with, or avoid it at this stage but perhaps feel defeated by it in the long run? I can't really predict how I might react, and our friends don't know about the infidelity.
Many thanks!

16 comments posted: Friday, August 23rd, 2024

Two separate questions: But he's depressed...and...should I search for the AP?

Hi,
I have just joined the site, and I think this is more of a reconciliation post than a 'just found out', but really it is just a garble of thoughts I need someone to empathise with.

A quick summary of my situation is that my 'full of integrity' husband of 21 years cheated on me in January. He deliberately went online to find a married woman for a one-night stand (booking a night away with her and planning it for a few weeks - so not a spur-of-the moment thing). I found out after he was behaving particularly neglectfully and verbally abusively to me - ironically calling me 'disgusting' and 'a liar'; I checked his phone and found some damning evidence of him sleeping around.

Apparently, this was the one and only time he had actually met up with someone, although he had had intimate chats with a number of other women in the search to find someone low enough and local enough to meet up with for sex.

Since D-Day, he has already made huge changes to the way he treats me and engages with me. There is no contempt anymore...at the moment. He has read several books on infidelity and is acting on their advice. He has given me complete access to his phone and tech. He is having and acting on counselling. In those things, there is nothing else he can do other than be consistent in continuing this behaviour.

He says that when he planned and carried out the infidelity, he was in a dreadful hole of depression and 'crisis'; for what it is worth, this is true - he had experienced a barrage of traumatic experiences (I was at his side through them!) and no matter what I did to try to help, nothing worked. Only the buzz of internet dating seemed enough for him, and he had lots of contempt for me. I think he 'discovered' the idea of polyamory (although I think he really means promiscuity, as there isn't much to do with love in his thinking) and felt that I was from a time-warp for respecting and expecting monogamy.

At the moment, he remains very, very depressed. He has been suicidal at times. What I am unsure of is whether a) he is just still depressed from the depression he already had combined, now, with having acted like an immoral piece of crap or b) he is depressed because he has verbally committed to being with me (which he know means monogamy) but ultimately wants to sleep with other people for the variety. He says that he is committed to me and is now horrified and sickened at the idea of doing what he did ever again. However, I am torn up by not knowing where his 'true sexual calling' lies. I know no one can answer this - not even him at the moment, probably - but I just needed to express this sense that I feel I will never be enough. Can people feel that they are designed for 'polyamory' and then realise they are not?

Also, how much do I support him whilst he is seriously depressed, given that I am also in pain myself? I feel that I am numbing my own pain, caused by him, in order to help him!

My other question is - should I search for the AP? I genuinely believe that my husband does not know her actual name, and he has erased all contact details (I do believe him; his whole intention was to have a 'just sex' experience); he has offered to search for her to put my mind at ease (!!!!). Half of me wants to find her as I feel she has a power over me whilst she knows who I am and I do not know who she is, but the other half thinks that things are better left unexplored (let sleeping dogs lie - almost literally). Any advice welcomed. Thanks!

8 comments posted: Wednesday, August 21st, 2024