SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

It's good to get emotions out. Repressing them only makes the pressure grow and grow, and when they explode, and they WILL explode, like an in-lanced abscess, the wound will be jagged, large, and very hard to heal completely. As painful as it is, expressing your emotions and actually FEELING them, is the healthy choice that will lead to less pain later on. Counter-intuitive, isn't it?

Stay a bit detached. The next move is up to him. Actions, not words.

Lavendar

No next time. My heart matters!!

1,0000%

So my IC decided it might be time for my teen to step aside for awhile.

The number one voice in my head was that I suck. It has been there for as long as I can remember. And it is hurting my others [3 other me's]

My teen is tough as hell, and is ALWAYS on the verge of a fight or oddly enough tears.

He doesn't allow wallowing, which of course can be healing.

So he was interfering a bit with the healing process. So my IC therapist assured him he would be welcomed back, and that he is very well liked but could he please go do something he enjoyed doing while we work on some other things.

So he is currently playing summer league basketball under the lights of his favorite park he went to growing up. He pops up from time to time but it definitely is different.

I don't have thing anger buzzing in me.

Here is one of the positives.

I was taking an online course in Behavioral Econ. With him present it took me 3 weeks to finish the first of 3 parts. With him not present I finished the other 2 parts in 2 days.

The negative.

I feel like I am a soldier every day going into battle without my gun.

While my head is more clear, I am definitely more vulnerable.

Brains are terrifying and beautiful...I hope to some day have more control and understanding over mine

Hey You! (you know, because of YouMe!? oh well, so I'm not too funny..... )

Here's the thing. Your teen hasn't moved out of the house and flown over to Denmark to undergo an intensive Viking Ship building course, in period, where he wont have access to the internet for a year. He's just down the street, relatively speaking, doing his own thing, and letting y-all stand on your own legs. Having a break from each other isn't a bad thing, especially if he's getting on y-all's nerves and in the way of doing some healing. Just like y-all need to stand on your own feet and cope with the stuff that he normally copes with, for the better growth of ALL of you, he needs to learn to mello out a bit and relax. Hopefully this little break will allow all of Youze to expand and grow a bit.

I can empathize in that my protector is always with me and when I see outside of my mind's eye, I see both of us looking in the same direction, side by side, and pretty much cheek to cheek. It would be a strange and unsettling thing, to not have her by my side. I'm lucky in that she's not the one who is mentally self-destructive to me and my self. (Funny enough, that person IS a male teen, maybe we should arrange a play date for them lol) Mind you, she has no problem being fully present if she thinks that I need her to be ... but over the years, she's accepted that I *can* handle a whole lot of stuff and is willing to step back and guard my flanks, as it were, and let me stand on my own two feet. I hope that a similar accommodation can be made by all of you!

BTW, it's great to see you posting!

I'm sorry for my late response. Hopefulkate, devotedman, thank you both for reaching out to me. Some days are easier than others. DM, you raise good points about how much of my OCD tics are related to my history of suffering sexual abuse (I like your word 'sufferer' too, thank you for that). I think they're very much feeding off of each other. The abuse gives the OCD something to work with. Sometimes my symptoms will help me convince myself that if I do certain rituals, then I will ward off the abusers.

No, I would never find anyone who suffered this way disgusting. I'm not sure why I keep finding myself that way. Perhaps, as you've said, it's an indirect way of finding control. In my case, if I'm disgusting enough, then perhaps I won't be abused again. Or the opposite could happen: I could scare away all the decent people so that only the abusers are around me, thus putting myself back into hell. I don't want that either. I'd rather be invisible to everyone. I have this fear of tainting all the healthy people around me. Guess that means my heart's in the right place? If I'm worried about others' well-being and am trying to take responsibility to break the cycle of abuse, even if the only way for me to break it is to make sure I'm not the next abuser.

I'm trying to find and adopt a more human perspective of myself, rather than tending towards extremes. Sometimes the feelings can be very extreme. So maybe I can make room to observe and honor those feelings, and ALSO not be afraid to find myself an acceptable human being. That might relieve a lot of this anxiety.

Hopefulkate, you've given me a lot more to consider about dissociation. I need to read up more. I thought DID meant something completely different, so this is something I need to get educated on. I have these weird experiences I can't explain. I'm not so sure it's the feeling of being outside of myself... More like the feeling of being under spiritual attack and beginning to forget who I am. Not as in concrete memories so much, but more like not remembering how to be myself, or feeling like feelings are all mixed up. I'm really not sure how to describe this... Can't put my finger on it. Like you said, it might be some sort of dissociation, so I'll read more in hopes that I'll find works to match what's going on. I felt that way when I read about OCD - like finally, I had words for what hadn't made sense for most of my life. Hoping to find that same thing for this.

In other news, trying to read "The Sexual Healing Journey". Reading anything at all is challenging and overwhelming and I spend too much time trying to find online articles to help. This turns out to be a bad idea, because I run into far too many commentary discrediting sufferers. So, going to try harder to read the books instead.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:58 AM, November 18th (Saturday)]

Hey You! (you know, because of YouMe!? oh well, so I'm not too funny..... )

I am totally stealing this!

Hi Silverhopes, glad to hear from you. My advice on it all is to just take it slow. From my limited experience, I would lean towards DID as being a possibility, but a professional and your own gut are the best ones to really know for sure.

That said, your response to DM shows a great capacity for self growth! The book, sexual healing is good, though triggery as fuck.

Are there other resources that may be more helpful without the triggers? Do your counselors have suggestions or maybe exercises to try instead?

Just a thought. I could be off. I haven't stayed at a holiday express lately.

Hi Silver - I ditto what Hopeful says. How has the IC search going? Thinking about you, I know that is hard.

YouMeI, glad to hear from you. Thank you.

My friend told me Friday night that my H isn't where I think he is. I said what? He is at work, he just showed me a pic from lunch. She said no he isn't and showed me a txt from a friend of hers that he is having dinner and drinks with the AP and the friend of a friend.

So much for R. I sent H a text to not come home, I know where he is not at work. Then the gas lighting started. "Starting to wrap up(at work). If you think i am not at work I will check into a motel...Where do you think I am?" When he arrived home the next day, "Who told you and where was I?" Trying to discredit. I refused to tell him. I actually did not know where. The friend would not say to protect herself. It turns out the friend is a close friend of the AP. Talk about a F'd up 6 degree of separation.

H kept wanting to talk when he got home. I said no, not in front of the kids. He had an appointment to get to and I went with him to talk so no kids around. I was proud of myself to keep my cool. I did not call him a liar. Just called out the behavior that he does lie. There was some blame shifting of stuff he needed me to do for him that I never did. *Let me mention that I DO EVERYTHING for him. *. My favorite, how can you believe your source and not me...REALLY?!?

Then he proceeded to tell me that I will keep suspecting, (duh), and he will never be able to convince me....OK, I found a second phone, you refuse to use a tracking app, you won't show me your official work schedule. Not accountable on your whereabouts? Stopped IC, sooooo what am I missing?

We needed a guest bed anyway so went and bought that. He is staying at the house for now. I am the breadwinner. I told him I was very concerned for him. My wedding ring is finally off and he handed me his..

Damn this hurts, but deep down I know it's for the best. I cannot keep trying to pull him out of the denial hole. He is pulling me down. My dad warned me about him and took it to his grave. I apologized to my Dad and prayed to my higher power. That part will be hard to let go. What hurts more is H is choosing that nasty AP over us...his family and me. I should of mourned that last year. Every week in September he kept telling me that he is working on putting his family first and that stopped in october.(when IC stopped)...This just sucks...He planned all long to get back to working at the airport to be back with her.

Damn, i have to give up HOPIUM!

Lavender0916, good for you. There is a lot of hard ahead with the path that you're taking and, seemingly, an unending, surprise-filled, and full load of hard ahead if you make-nice with him right now.

So much for R.

I'm sorry.

Then the gas lighting started. "Starting to wrap up(at work). If you think i am not at work I will check into a motel...Where do you think I am?"

Gaslighting and ass-covering. That turning the question back to you so he can discover what you know and do damage control is so very typical. They might as well ask directly, "How much do you know so that I can better formulate a countering response?"

And they think that they're being oh, so very clever with the 'subtle' questions.

Then he proceeded to tell me that I will keep suspecting, (duh), and he will never be able to convince me....OK, I found a second phone, you refuse to use a tracking app, you won't show me your official work schedule. Not accountable on your whereabouts? Stopped IC, sooooo what am I missing?

That first statement, that's probably an attempt to make his case seem un-winnable. The thing is, when taken with the rest of what you've found, his "case" is un-winnable because he isn't acting right. This is still all about him. Have you heard the plaintive, "But where will I go?" yet?

Here's what I really wanted to comment on, though:

What hurts more is H is choosing that nasty AP over us...his family and me.

No. While I understand your feelings and their source, since I've had the same feelings before, from my greater time to consider the matter the answer is, No. He is _not_ picking her over you. He is picking being broken over healthy. She does not matter, it could be anyone. If he were a healthy, well-adjusted man she could be nude and begging and he could excuse himself and walk away.

Further, the "he picked her" attitude is an extension of the "pick me" attitude. You know, with the dancing and begging and pleading and twisting yourself into odd shapes to try and "convince" him to stay. Lavender0916, we both know that that attitude is a crap one, right? He's already decided to go when he didn't decide to honor your vows. He just didn't tell you then and hasn't had the balls since.

Another part of that is - past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. And - he hasn't honored anything with you, instead he went out and found someone as broken as he is to have an A with. Think about that carefully. He is going to do to her exactly what he has done with you. That is who he is right now. CSA or not is immaterial with this particular point. CSA might have helped turn him into this but, right at this time, this is who he's _choosing_ to be.

That's a difference between the CSA folks and other, different reasons for having the A. A lot of times the really bad wiring we get when we were young causes us not to be able to discern what the world and people really are. We think that everyone's life is like ours. We think that everyone does what we do as a result of the same stimuli and training that we have. Always lie, remember?

The difference is - I had a rock-bottom moment. YouMeI had a different rock-bottom moment. Lots of people who suffered CSA have rock-bottom moments that include suicide. Lots don't, as well. So, the difference is - when presented with a chance to do better some of us chose to do better. Some haven't hit their own rock-bottom yet and flamed-out in whatever spectacular fashion is chosen. Some never do choose to change, instead continuing with hiding, avoiding intimacy, truth, honesty, trustworthiness, and all of that.

Again, this isn't about you or her, this is all about him. Still.

[This message edited by devotedman at 1:56 PM, November 19th, 2017 (Sunday)]

Further, the "he picked her" attitude is an extension of the "pick me" attitude. You know, with the dancing and begging and pleading and twisting yourself into odd shapes to try and "convince" him to stay. Lavender0916, we both know that that attitude is a crap one, right? He's already decided to go when he didn't decide to honor your vows. He just didn't tell you then and hasn't had the balls since.

I am sorry why can't i stop laughing at this..... i really love your directness. Bring it, I love it...coda recovery 101 here...

I am trying not to make nice...it is so hard in front to the younger children. Especially my youngest who is 6. Wondering why dad did not come home Friday night, wondering why he has a different bed.

I told him today he cannot come behind me and hug me. The child is hurt. Said he will not hug me at all. (OK). My ring is off. Period. You said it DM, he chooses shit over healthy. Good luck with that. I want to be healthy. My DID daughter wants healthy and no more chaos in her life. BYE!! Worry about my DS and youngest DD. 6 yo DD is really acting out. My oldest is so pissed. Because she wants to be healthy and doesn't understand at all why her Dad does not. She was 6 when her dad divorced her extremely neglectful mom. She is starting to feel compassion for her younger sister.

I understand my Coda helped the "i will fix him" with all the love I can give till i have no more and you can find someone else after I am depleted and nothing of person! Fuck no! I am resurrecting!!

Christ I am Eastern European! We know suffering. I know I can get through this....

i really love your directness. Bring it,

Thanks for that. I truly believe that I can be of the most service by being truthful. Sometimes I still have trouble with deciding what is, um, socially appropriate? to say. Directness is what I choose because I just can't dance around a lot of stuff with as much tact as some other folks.

Here's a slightly different version of something I told a woman in, JFO?, General?, Divorce and Separation? some time back:

Right now he's got two women fighting over him. Think about what this is doing for his ego. Why, he's so important, so desirable, so _everything_ that a woman wants that _two_ of them want him!

Cajones is the Spanish word for testicles, or balls. "Oh, my," he says to himself. "Will you all just _look_ at my cajones!"

"These cajones of mine make me great! I can swagger. In fact, with cajones this size, I _must_ swagger. Normal walking is impossible for me."

The sad fact is that his self-esteem is likely crap from the CSA. Sexual approval is, again likely, the only form of approval that he understands. I know from experience what it is like to be that way. It is a very sad way to be.

The difference between us is that at an early age things started failing to add up for me. There were discrepancies between what I thought that the world was and what it actually appeared to be. I could not reconcile myself with simply putting wallpaper over the giant cracks in my world-view.

I must caution you about something, though. He is used to having two women fighting over him. If you stop then he has one woman fighting over him and he will likely try to rope you back in. He will step up his game to get his world back to "normal." That's just what people do. Not just CSA folks, but everybody. That's what you were trying with the codep and "pick-me" dancing.

If you stop fighting for him then he's got an opening for the spot of "one of the women fighting for me." He might just go out to try and recruit another woman in his life to fight for him. I view this as a very real possibility. Which is merely a statement, I'm not trying to say that I'm prescient or that God died a while back and I was compelled to step in. It is just a belief and could easily be wrong.

But - I'd hate to see you step back in a healthy way but with secret reservations of "maybe this will bring him back" hiding in the background. If you detach his bruised ego and faulty beliefs will, I think, drive him to seek out someone else.

Good luck.

If you stop fighting for him

Maybe you see something different...I never saw it as fighting for him...please explain. My comment about he chooses her over family is an ignorant understanding CSA and my own self esteem issues. Plus a friend of mine said it in a txt to me last night.

I am not fighting for him. No, this is his shit. Holy crap if there is a 3rd woman introduced WTF?!? I am currently in the position either he gets help to be healthy or he goes(from my life). Is it a fight? No, it is a fact. He made his bed. BTW , he has tried all day to get me to be my old self. Ah, no. It's the power of compromise, can I sleep in our bed? show me 5 consistent IC sessions, attended. J/k. It is more than that and not a joke. Still reminds me of the second Adams Family movie where Fester gets married and he says to his new wife, give me a kiss and she responds - give me a 20. LMAO

I was referring to your recent turn-around regarding The 180, your struggle with codep issues, and just generally your trying to work things out with him.

I was saying that without your involvement with him, without giving him someone at home to betray?, or at least care about where he is and what he is doing, he might graduate AP to the role you played and then a new AP to supply the role that the AP formerly played.

If that makes sense.

I was saying that without your involvement with him, without giving him someone at home to betray?, or at least care about where he is and what he is doing, he might graduate AP to the role you played and then a new AP to supply the role that the AP formerly played.

Sadly, that was me 14 years ago. It was partly emotional A when I was young and did not know better. We divorced our previous spouses before it got stronger.

I did go to MC to try and save my previous marriage.

Still a cycle he may go through. I think what you are trying to say to me is it is completely over. He is not willing to heal. There is no hope. Too far gone. I read it loud and clear.

It is so hard for me, because I remember when he wanted help, and got help and how good it was...sucks

Lavendar

Then he proceeded to tell me that I will keep suspecting, (duh), and he will never be able to convince me....OK, I found a second phone, you refuse to use a tracking app, you won't show me your official work schedule. Not accountable on your whereabouts? Stopped IC, sooooo what am I missing?

As a BS who desperately wants to heal the marriage...to this I say...huh?

You found a 2nd phone AND he won't use a tracking app? He also won't show you his work schedule?

Because why? He doesn't want to give up any of his "rights"?

Those are very basic and understanding requests you are making from someone who keeps breaking your trust. Don't let him bully you. If that is what you need to feel safe and he won't do it, repairing trust is low on his priorities.

YouMeI huh is right. It's crazymaking at it's best. My soul is crushed so much it makes it tough to stand. Not to mention defend myself and my feelings.

Just this morning he came into the room (he asked) then proceeded to tell me he needed love (from me) and sex in order to get through this. He needs this love from his wife. No one else otherwise he is going to go backwards.

me-me-me-me-me-me-me - Poor me o's. Still denying last Friday and who told me.

OMG this is sad. and a complete mindf**K

Lavender, I am so sorry. He should never have treated you this way. You deserve so much better than this.

Thank you Silver,

Separation is official. He tried to blameshift all night in our conversation. Testing how free he is....sent an email to his IC tonight getting back on recovery track.

His comments tonight scared me. He is gone, gone in fantasy land. I will never forget what he said, even though he apologized. In the meantime I need to reconnect with my attorney. His reality is off, and on relationships. He may never mature there.

Lavender0916, you said in reply to me:

I think what you are trying to say to me is it is completely over. He is not willing to heal. There is no hope. Too far gone. I read it loud and clear.

and about him

It is so hard for me, because I remember when he wanted help, and got help and how good it was...sucks

I can't tell you that it is over, I can only offer my opinions.

Given his attitude and the interactions that you outlined in your posts after that one it is my personal opinion that he is not a safe partner to invest in emotionally right now.

He should have taken a picture at work, hopefully with a clock in it, and sent it instead of blathering along about getting ready to leave, etc.

He should send a picture of his surroundings at any time that you want it, depending upon the nature of his work. Since he was supposedly alone there and it was after hours he should have sent it fairly quickly unless his job prevents that. Some jobs legitimately prevent that, I know some folks with such jobs.

In a later post that you made it sounds like he was telling you that unless you have sex with him he's going to do something. That is a shifting of responsibility of _his_ actions onto _your_ shoulders. You're basically being given an ultimatum.

Now, I don't know yours and his exact marriage situation. I can't. But, the above and the other elements that you mention about your M lead me to believe that he is not a safe partner right now. The situation that you have described does not sound sustainable, nor is it a good foundation upon which to build a positive relationship.

I guess that I'm trying to say that if he doesn't pull his head out of his ass toot-sweet that you have to decide just how much of this bullshit that you can put up with. This seems like some pretty serious bullshit (i.e., another instance of an A) to put up with, too. Put bluntly, you can decide to continue in the current condition or you can decide that you cannot continue to live this way. And living this way seems to be tearing you apart.

These decisions are so very hard to make. I'm truly sorry that you're being put into a position to have to make such a decision.

Have a fistbump of understanding, Lavender0916 }{

}{ Fistbump DM!!

Haha today's our anniversary. Dang.

Hopeful and I were talking about our brain and heart not in sync, due to FOO crap wiring. I realize now I haven't been listening to my heart.

My WH is not safe emotionally. It scared me to death what he said. Now I will share. He told me if I cannot give him affection (sexual) he will have to find it somewhere else. I said that is a threat. He said it is a need..wow. He proceeded to go down the conversation about sex is like a roller coaster. I was never interested or as he put it white knuckle sex(Boring) I right away responded that is no excuse to have an affair. Then we arrived at his friends house and I was pissed. After we left, I told how hurtful that was and no matter how much sex we had it did not stop him. He apologized and said he was very wrong for saying it. He finally emailed his IC and copied me on it. Sadly he is still in the house but looking for a place.

I do not want part of this. He has a very damaged view of the world. Glad I got out.

Thanks all for your support