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Sisoon,

Good question. I worked with that one a long time. I wanted to "forgive" him, but, like you said, I had to figure out exactly what that meant and what I had to do in my head to get there. I knew I couldn't just say: I forgive you!, without digging deeply into my soul.

First, I had to get rid of the anger (well, I found I didn't get "rid" of it, and probably never will totally). So, I worked on that. Once it subsided considerably, and the mind movies got less & less (and hurt less, too); and, when the thought of the affair didn't hurt so much, then, I could start thinking about forgiveness.

So, we get to that. I had to get rid of any animosity I had toward what he did (whew, that was hard), and REALLY mean it in my head. I also had to see him for the flawed human he is (and, we all are.) Also, had to remember that God forgave him a long time ago. So, to forgive him meant that I no longer held a resentment toward him for what he did. (The resentment surfaces during arguments, etc, but not as badly, but I still feel the forgiveness). I had to do it, not only for him, bu for me, too. It's been so freeing. Like I said, it was a long process; one I haven't taken lightly. It's made a big difference with him, too. He lightened up, and I think felt more free to be in his own home now. I also truly feel the forgiveness in my heart, which tells me I know I've 'done' it .

[This message edited by SusanneH at 3:22 PM, October 24th (Thursday)]

I wonder if you're expecting to heal easier than is likely.

For me it was like a spiral that got better slowly. That means I'd cycle around, often dealing with an issue I thought I had dealt with earlier, but in a new, unexpected way. Triggers kept coming, but they'd be generally less frequent and less powerful.

Your H is bi - unfortunately you can't evaluate his his commitment to monogamy immediately. A long-term commitment needs a long time for confirmation.

I think the normal response to being betrayed includes being inundated with grief, anger, fear, and shame. I also think it takes a lot of time to process those feelings; that's why the come in cycles - process one, process another, rest, process some more, rest, trigger, process, etc., etc., etc. for years.

So don't be surprised if you feel rage in 2-4 months. Don't be surprised if you find some more desire for revenge or punishment.

Have you seen https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp? I found it very helpful in figuring out what to look for from my W.

Does your H know you're on SI? If not, great! Keep it that way.

Is he committed to changing from betrayer to good partner? or is he white-knuckling his way?

That's all for now....

I'm still discombobulated by the stupidity and nastiness from one of the owners at our small condo's budget meeting, so my thinking is even less organized than usual....

Sisoon,

I guess, like most; yes, I'd like to heal fast(er) than I probably will. But, I'm not naive. I know there will be ups and downs. We had a 'down' last weekend when some information came out about a financial decision he made (long story/inheritance) last year. He had told me he "didn't know what he was signing', when he DID know, and it was to protect HIM from ME getting his inherited property if we got divorced. It hurt tremendously that he was planning for the event of a divorce when I had no idea anything was wrong. He got defensive and just plain awful to deal with about it each time we have brought it up now. And, he's been in a REALLY BAD MOOD since then. Actually, it's helped bring him to a point where he realizes he needs IC. He has a lot of anger inside. He's always been open to the idea, but never acted on it. He will now, and it will also help him address the 'men' situation.

And, yes, my anger came out again, and I said some things about him having the affair that I haven't said in awhile, causing him to say "we're back to square one".....he's been SO negative.

I know for a fact that he hasn't done anything sexual outside the home since Dec 2017, so at least that's ok for now. (I've been using 'find my iPhone' for awhile now. I'll stop soon. He's been where he's supposed to be every time since I started April, 2018, so I guess I'll need to start trusting him soon.)

And, yes, he knows about SI. it's up on my computer screen most of the time (but, he hasn't read anything I haven't invited him to read). We're pretty open about things for the most part. Until this last thing, we've gotten where we can talk calmly about the affair and just about anything that goes along with it......without any problems. Just not about this financial thing.

We're trying to work on communication. We've finished one communication in marriage book together, and we're starting a workbook.

When he got so defensive (all 4 times now), O thought there was more to it. That's why I wondered why he got so upset about this. I asked him if he protected himself financially any other way & he said he didn't, so the only reason I can think of the defensiveness is that he felt guilty once again about lying. I explained again to him this is how much damage a lie can do. It turned our world back upside down.

Even during all of this, I've reevaluated my thinking on forgiving him, and that has NOT changed. I may be angry and hurt right now, but I've still forgiven him.

I've never had a desire for revenge or punishment, thank goodness.

And, yes, he's changed from betrayer to good partner most of the time, but I do think he's white knuckling it some of the time. I've felt like he's having to "try" too hard.. I sure hope he doesn't linger on calling the IC.

I'll check out the link you provided. Thanks

Thanks, and hope things go well with your condo situation!

added: I don't know why I haven't looked at the Healing Library until now. I've been searching & reading all i can get my hands on, and this has been right here all the time. My printer is going & going. I have a lot of reading to do. thanks again

[This message edited by SusanneH at 12:33 PM, October 25th (Friday)]

Sisoon,

You hit the nail on the head with the article on What every WS Needs To Know. WOW. My H has been in such a funk since last weekend, like I mentioned, and yesterday was no exception. He had gotten too busy to call the IC (not an excuse. He actually wastoo busy. But, when he got through (which was after 5pm, too late to call), I asked him to read it. He went to a quiet place and read it carefully, came down WITH A SMILE, for the first time in a week, and hugged me, thanked me for getting him the article to read, and said it had things in there differently than other things we/he had read before, and it shed a lot of light on how he was acting vs how he SHOULD be acting, as well as how I'm feeling.

Now, so far, (yeah, only about 18 hrs), he's been back to the 'nice' man I know. We'll see how long that lasts. He's promised to call the IC Monday. He's actually anxious to go and find out what's going on with himself, which, for the first time, he's willing to do.

Thanks again for helping with your experience.

It will get better (yes, and I know worse/better/worse/better, etc) for a long time.

[This message edited by SusanneH at 2:23 PM, October 26th (Saturday)]

Yep, my ex H was seen by other's as the alpha male and a man's man.

It shocked everyone around us that my ex is bisexual for many.

So, it shocked me for a long time too, unfortunately.

Hi Dorothy,

Yeah, my fWH said if anyone he knew found out about this he/we'd have to move where no one knows him. He was going to 'go to his grave' with this. ...until he messed up. I knew he had sex with men when he did drugs, but he had told me that he hadn't done it since then... . Lies REALLY upset me more than most things these days. Anyway, since I knew about it, I guess I wasn't AS shocked as I would have been if it hadn't have been for that. When I found out about the one time and he said it was for something 'different', I didn't think much of it until he finally told me that he had always liked sex with both women and men. He had never told anyone (except the men he was with, whom he didn't know).

I was thinking the other day, that it's almost been easier for me to be getting through this since there were NO emotions attached to it as apposed to a woman, where there would not only be emotions(which to me, would be AWFUL to deal with), but also all the positions that would make me uncomfortable to do with him now. As it is, I only have one hangup (the one thing they did), and that is to give him oral sex. I haven't worked up the courage to do it yet. I keep seeing the OM doing it, and I know I'll compare myself, wondering how he did it, and if I'm doing it well enough. I had my H 'show' me on a cucumber how he did it/how my H liked it (even though I'd had him tell me numerous times), and he didn't show me as much as I would have liked. It was more "tell' than show. So, I didn't really learn much...his misfortune. I tried. . He's been trying with me, too. I'm not very adventurous, and neither is he, so not much to add there.

Sorry yours didn't work out. Hope your life is going well.

Man's man? I believe the Spartan army was filled with men in homosexual relationships. Sparta had no walls, because its army was so effective.

Do any of you wish your partner wasnt bi? It's rare that I ever think it, but it sometimes hits me. I love my wife the way she is, but I feel like sometimes it would be easier if she wasn't bi.

Wife told me boobs are the worst, and didn't even think about going 'down there'. Yet she grinded and kept grabbing AP's boobs. Even though AP didn't like it and kept stopping her from grabbing her boobs (religious). She had no problem with grinding though. I don't know I can believe that. I wish she'd tell me she enjoyed petting so I felt like she was honest. But maybe she is being honest and is just a make out and grind when it comes to girls. Ugh. I don't even know why I care about that.

Sometimes things are easier though cause she's bi. I can note that a woman is attractive and she will agree.

RedHeadTemper

I get it. I always knew my ex had an interest in women, and I offered to allow experimentation though I wasn't entirely comfortable - I mean, come on, it was pretty much a green light (or at least a yellow light) to what sounded like a fun time.

But when she came back from Texas claiming to be a lesbian, that she didn't like men, that she only wanted to be with women, etc, that was a shocker.

It was less of a shocker when I saw all the pictures from her tryst with her girlfriend... and her girlfriend's husband. Turns out the ex wasn't quite as lesbian as she made out. She seemed preeeeetty enthusiastic with the husband as well.

I sometimes wish she had either a) experimented in a way that we had agreed upon or b) not had those urges. Honestly, though, either way, she's a pretty trash person in my eyes at this point, and I see hat it is better that we simply no longer be married. Bi or not, you don't cheat. If you can't not have sex with someone else while married, stop being married first.

[This message edited by Incarnate at 2:58 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]

Incarnate

I feel the same way. I did the same thing. My wife said she felt pressured and forced to marry me..... huh?!?

That was on dday. But she cried and I felt bad and said she can experiment to figure out if she was lesbian. I was in denial hard, even though she admitted it to me. I used it as a crutch to tell my self it's not real and it's not her fault. I never even thought about the many times over the last 4 years that she wanted sex and I didn't or was too tiered, etc. It was obvious that she was bi.

For me, with her experimenting it turned into a pick me dance. And realized that she's getting a whole lot of action and attention from me and AP. And i was getting no attention. Following that I hit the typical bs Rollercoaster.

Also she never followed rules that was set. I told her if she felt like she was falling for AP that she needed to tell me, that it needed to be fast. I was thinking she would do a ONS or something to decide she sexually wanted women or men. But I guess she heard that I wanted her to fall in love with AP and treat me like dirt and take advantage of me and leave me in the dark while dragging it on for months.

Funny you bring up the 'have a good time'. Men would get that. I don't think women would. I didn't realize no fun time for anyone but her and her AP. I guess my fun time was watching our kids alone, laundry, and housework and doing her responsibilities.

[This message edited by RedHeadTemper at 3:28 PM, October 30th (Wednesday)]

RHT & Incarnate,

Yes, I wish my H wasn't bi. More than that, though, I wish he hadn't (won't do it agaain) cheated.....with ANYONE, man or woman. He's going to IC starting next week, and she's a SA therapist, as well as a marriage counselor, so we may be able to use her as MC later, if he likes her. I'm hoping she'll help him figure out his sexual identity, and other things of course....if she's good......here's hoping. .

Just the fact he's already cheated is enough to worry about it happening again, whether it's a man or woman.....I don't care. It should be NEITHER. But, I do worry about how he DOES think about men and has for so long.....I guess I just have to be patient and wait to see what happens. there's already been so much waiting, hoping, anxiety, etc already. aghhhh!

[This message edited by SusanneH at 10:10 AM, October 31st (Thursday)]

Update:

fWH started IC last week. It went well. He said he told his story, and was thorough with it. He recanted to me what he said, and it sounded like he didn't leave anything important out.

Then, she had me come with him yesterday. I was more than happy to meet her and see what she was all about. It appears she is pro-marriage, very understanding...OH, and she told him on his first visit (he didn't listen to her any more than he listens to me!) that he is NOT a sex addict. That's one thing good. Of course, he IS bisexual, which is NO surprise.

She posed some good questions. My H is not comfortable with the men w/ men life or even just the act that he did. It's just not what he grew up with, and he doesn't even like the idea of it...just did it when he couldn't get women, (for the most part...there IS more) and came to like it ..a lot. So, she asked if he would rather live the life with me, family, friends (which he said he'd have to give up if he went that way); or, would he rather be with men, and be without what he considers a normal life. He said it was a 'no brainer'. So, even though the last few weeks have been tough ones, things are looking good in the big picture.

She wanted me to come back, but I told her we want to each have IC first, and then MC. We might use her for MC later. I told her I'm also ill and am going to be getting my IC online probably since I have to drive so far to get to anyone. Not sure about that one yet.

fWH's attitude has done another 180 and is good again. I think she's going to be good for him, and am anxious to see how it goes.

Still hanging in there, and will continue to do so as long as he 'stays clean' .

[This message edited by SusanneH at 11:03 AM, November 15th (Friday)]

Susanne, good for you! I'm glad to hear you found a good IC for your husband. And your in IC as well.

I feel like this forum should be more alive.

The thing that's hard for me with same sex AP is when my wife tells me she's bi. When I recap the story in my head, it's obvious she's bi. But she lied so much to me during and after the affair, that I associate lots of the new things she says to me as lies or nonsense. So it's hard for me when she tells the truth. Obviously my wife is bi, obviously she likes to be intimate with me. But when she says it my mind goes right into (you trusted her way too much, doubt what she's saying). It puts me in panic mode where I fear that my wife is Lesbian and will hide it from me for the rest of our lives!!!

It's not true, I don't know the future. I know she likes being with me. I hope it gets better with time. Maybe I need to get back into IC.

IMO, the reason this thread isn't very active is that a BS is a BS. No matter who the ap is, we go through essentially the same crap.

I was initially afraid that people in R would think 'sisoon is so bad in bed that he drove his W to women.' I never got that. If anyone thought it, they didn't post it.

It's normal not to believe one's WS for months. It's normal for it to take a long time for trust/belief to come back. The main benefit of Q&A, I think, is that each honest answer slowly builds trust.

It also makes sense for your mind to be boggled.

I'd be worried if you did trust your W's words, RHT. I'd be worried if you did think you knew what was happening.

This is traumatic. It takes a lot longer to deal with trauma than any victim wants it to take....

Good news, Susanne.

RHT & Sisoon,

Yeah, it would be nice if this thread were more alive. I get what you're saying Sisoon about a WS & BS being the same no matter. I don't mind posting in the other Forums, but would seem I'd have to start another thread for each new thing? This way, we can just add to what we have on the same subject.....only there isn't much of it. I've been posting on several, but find myself repeating what I posted here. ...

I'm still looking into online IC. I got back an answer from BetterHelp, which was recommended, and it looks like most of it is writing back & forth, but there is some video chat. That's my main concern about online IC's: emotion. When I was in the office with the counselor the other day, our wedding came up, and it saddened me. I didn't say anything, but she SAW I was troubled, and brought it up. This wouldn't have been noticed in writing. So, I'm torn. I may start & see how it goes. They've already matched me with a counselor, and it would be MUCH easier than driving to another town, being so ill...We'll see. I didn't think I needed much help, but after seeing her the other day, she said it seemed like I'm more in need than I think I am... .

As Sisoon said:

This is traumatic. It takes a lot longer to deal with trauma than any victim wants it to take....

yup. Hoping, wanting, good days, good weeks...none of it makes it go faster. .

Just like in AA, & I think this holds true for life, "One Day at a Time". That's the best we can do...sometimes it's one minute/one second.

((((((HUGS))))) & peace (yes, I'm an old hippie)

[This message edited by SusanneH at 12:22 PM, November 17th (Sunday)]

I have never posted on this forum because I have other issues with my WH. This post is for a friend I have met at SANON meetings. I am truly asking for a friend....

Her partner of 9 years has been caught on several occasions while browsing gay hook up sites. She has found ads he posted for anonymous meetings and he admits to liking gay porn and admires male underwear sites.

They have never enjoyed a sexual act to completion since they met. He has difficulty maintaining an erection and cannot ejaculate inside her.

He claims he has only received oral sex at these hook ups; no penetration. He also claims he isn't gay, just likes to communicate with other men.

So here is the question to this group; Is this man gay? It seems obvious to me and our 12 step group but she's not sure because he claims to want to have successful relations with her, he just can't seem to make it work.

I told her I'd ask this experienced group for her.

Thank you for reading my post.

Shocked,

That's what I first found with my H....the computer.. first, the porn (he had deleted the men with men porn, but left the rest). *It's a long story, but I think this will get it* After he finally told me he liked sex with both women and men (He was going to 'go to his grave' with this...until he messed up). Then, I found gay dating sites, emails to men & later found (much later after TT) that he met some, but no sex because he didn't 'approve' of them. Finally, had a 2+ year affair with a man he met at the local porn video store. they only met in the back rooms there & only oral sex (My H doesn't like the penetration w/men). They didn't even ever kiss. He didn't even know they guy's last name. Totally sex/no emotions. He had never had sex with a man more than once/maybe twice before this (just random), but this guy was about his age, married and "safe", so they kept seeing each other for convenience/satisfaction, rather than affection, liking each other. So, his interest in men is, as he says "very narrow". just the sucking (he likes to 'give' more than 'get' *he can get at home*).

It sounds similar to your friend, EXCEPT that we have GREAT sex. What I've read (and, I've educated myself a lot on this!) is that bisexuals usually have a good sex life with a partner of the other sex, but like sex with the same gender, too. Gays don't like (or, in this case, can't?) to have sex with someone of the different sex.

Now, one thing: I have learned that when someone comes here and says that their MAN has had interest or sex with the same gender, most people automatically say their gay. When a WOMAN has had interest or sex with another woman, it's not mentioned as often that she is a lesbian....go figure....just food for thought. that's why I posted in this section instead of the "normal"? ones.

Good luck to your friend...and any problems you have, too

((((((HUGS))))) and peace

[This message edited by SusanneH at 11:38 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

I think only the individual can decide if they are gay/straight/bi/whatever they identify with. I think your friend needs more information. Like could her husband maintain an erection with other people or only by himself or only with men, or with women but not her? It's possible he has sexual anorexia from years of porn watching or extreme/deviant sexual acts that he can't maintain an erection with regular sex with her (or shame could cause this too). But labeling him really doesn't help anyone but him. It's her life and she needs to decide if she wants a sexual relationship where her partner can't fulfill her or himself. I feel really bad for your friend. How confusing and frustrating. Love and hugs.

I think only the individual can decide if they are gay/straight/bi/whatever they identify with.

I totally agree. That's something I've left up to my H to decide for himself. So far, he's sure he's not gay, but believes he's bi.

As long as he doesn't cheat, I'm fine with it....as long as he's fine with the same arrangement, too. We have to both be satisfied with the decision to stay together or not. Is there any other way?

[This message edited by SusanneH at 1:25 PM, November 21st (Thursday)]

Please discuss same sex affairs, specifically woman - woman.

-Dday 2 years ago - my wife had an 8 month affair w recently divorced woman. I am male.

-We are married 33 years, 3 grown children, i thought happy. I was suspicious for months, but an affair w another female was a complete surprise.

Never any discussion or expectation of an open marriage.

-OW recently divorced b/c sexuality - evidently she decided she was a lesbian. -OW has 3 children.

-Very likely OW was a poacher.

-My wife is beautiful, successful, accomplished, very likable. The OW really is the complete opposite.

-My wife claimed initially that the affair was driven because I was an emotional manipulator and emotional abuser. She was going to leave me when the youngest grad HS (decided b/f the affair).

Questions:

-pls comment as much as you can about female affairs, especially emotional aspect.

-What drives a heterosexual woman to be attracted sexually and emotionally to another female?

-  WS claims the OW was feeding her emotionally, WS wanted to give back to the OW what she needed, part of which was sex. Pls comment, why was sex necessary?

-  my wife swears she is not a lesbian despite having slept 4X w this other POS. I don’t understand???

-Same sex affair appears to have special issues, especially woman on woman. I.E. reasons seem to be completely different than men.  Additionally, woman on woman affairs seem to be rare.

Thanks in advance - D