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Has any of you been told that LTA sex is better than relationship sex?

Has any of you been told that LTA sex is better than relationship sex?

No. Have you been told that?

Has any of you been told that LTA sex is better than relationship sex?

I’ve been told exactly the opposite, that sex with her AP was largely unsatisfying even if it was initially exciting. She describes him as selfish and sloppy and says he consistently finished very quickly.

I question how much of that to believe, but it is what I was told.

If she had told me the opposite, that she preferred sex with him to sex with me, I’d be divorced and she knows that. Hence my doubt about the veracity of her claims because one thing I know for sure: she doesn’t want me to divorce her.

No. I got the opposite. LTA sex was dirty and wrong. Basically she was just a repository.

The excitement (and I use that term loosely) was the thrill of fantasy and escapism.

That doesn’t make it better or easier. But through the lens of time have come to believe this.

Besides. LTAP wasn’t me. And I’m a BASGU (bad ass sparkly goddess unicorn). She was just a cheap thrill of availability.

Chaos said her WH said

LTA sex was dirty and wrong.

I got the same kind of thing from my WW. My WW’s AP was my (our) best friend of twenty-five years.

She said that the sexting and the flirting and the buildup was fun. She said the sex at the beginning was exciting. She said it deteriorated after that, when the "ooh shiny" wore off.

She said that every time, immediately upon finishing they were both struck with profound guilt because they both knew precisely who they were both betraying. She says this is why even though she had the opportunity to sleep in the same bed with him after sex on more than one occasion, as if they were "in love" or "lovers" that she never did. She says she slept in his guest room on one trip and in the other bed in the hotel room on a different trip.

Oddly, out of all the things I do not believe because they just don’t sound like the truth, they don’t sound like what those two adults would have done then and there, and out of all the things I think are weird but true, this "did not sleep in the same bed with him" rings true and sounds like what those two adults would in fact have done then and there. That post nut clarity must have been a real downer.

No. Have you been told that?

She says the opposite. But why would I believe her when she went back again and again? Either LTA sex was better or she was so in love with AP that she wanted to have sex with him even if the sex was not so great. Pick your poison. Both are deal breakers

[This message edited by Confusedmd at 7:53 PM, Tuesday, May 9th]

The original question posed by confusedmd above was "have any of you been told that LTA sex is better than relationship sex?"

Answers from others followed.

Confusedmd then said

She says the opposite. But why would I believe her when she went back again and again? Either LTA sex was better or she was so in love with AP that she wanted to have sex with him even if the sex was not so great. Pick your poison. Both are deal breakers barf

This is a dilemma I have wrangled with for the last five years, at least the first dealbreaker (sex was better with AP than me).

My WW had sex with her AP (our long time friend) a couple dozen times, maybe more, over the course of three years.

My WW says that she was in love with AP, and that initially she enjoyed sex with him but it was never great measured by her enjoyment or by his familiarity with her body and her wants. Over time, according to her, she enjoyed it less and there emerged an unspoken leverage going on where he didn’t have to threaten to tell me about the affair (he was not in another relationship) but she understood it to be implicit. If she didn’t have sex with him, he might tell me about the affair. It was coercive. She enjoyed it even less, and eventually not at all. Guilt overcame the body chemicals and lust. So she says.

Here’s what I’ve come to believe, balancing what she’s told me, what my life experience tells me, what I know about her, and what I’ve learned being here for years.

She probably did enjoy it at first, probably more than she admits. She had projected a hot sexy desirable woman to him and she wasn’t going to disappoint. But it was not like sex with me, ever. We’ve been having sex for close to forty years, half of that before she ever had sex with him for the first time. I know her. I know what she likes. We’ve "practiced" so many times I can’t get it wrong. They were cosplaying sex, and it isn’t the same and she could not pretend that it was. Many of the times they had sex they were severely intoxicated, so there’s that, too.

She got to the point that she was exchanging the emotional input she was getting from him for the physical output she was giving him. There was a quid pro quo, sex for emotional intimacy. At that point, combined with the inevitable loss of "new relationship energy" her perception of enjoyment in the acts of sex with him diminished greatly. When it became implicitly coercive, she was doing it only so she could try to slow play herself out of the affair, but that was very problematic for her because of his deep integration with my whole family. She couldn’t enjoy it any more, but she couldn’t safely stop either, or at least she couldn’t stop and still control the outcomes.

Now what I’ve had to work on is this: seeing it from her perspective, not from mine. From my perspective, as an admittedly toxic as hell masculine man, I would never risk my marriage, my money, my access to my children, my prestige, my reputation, to have mediocre sex. I mean, I wouldn’t do it at all, but if I were ever to make this terrible series of choices to have an affair, as a man, I’m only there to have great sex, or at least I’m definitely not there to tolerate mediocre sex. As a man, I could have emotional intimacy with an AP but that wouldn’t be required in order to get great sex for me (I understand the imaginary AP might need the emotional intimacy to enjoy the sex, I’m only saying I could have a great time with a woman without a long, deep emotional connection). Sorry to say it, that’s an acceptable hypothetical in my mind, no "love" just great sex with an enthusiastic partner. I would never, in this imaginary hypothetical affair, accept that I had a great emotional chemistry and a terrible sexual relationship with that woman. I just wouldn’t. In short, an EA only makes no sense to me at all, as the toxic masculine man that I admit to being. What is the point of that, I ask rhetorically.

If I apply my "logic" to my wife, I quickly get wrapped around the dealbreaker you identify. If I wouldn’t have a LTA without great sex, why would she? But she is not me.

My wife was in a very real, very intense EA long before she had sex with him. She was "in love" with him. She risked everything not to have great sex but to have ersatz emotional intimacy with sex attached to it. Short of the sex being abusive, she wouldn’t have bailed on the emotional intimacy merely because the sex wasn’t as good as it was with me, and according to her never would have been even if she’d left me for him.

That’s a really long way to say to you, confusedmd, that I encourage you to evaluate your wife’s affair from her perspective as much as you can and not overlay your perspective on it too much, or at all. If your wife is even a little bit like mine, she might not have been there for the sex at all, and that’s consistent with many of the WW who post here.

Now as to your second dealbreaker, that she was so in love with him she wanted to have sex with him even if she knew it wasn’t going to be great, well, yes. If that’s a deal breaker for you, it just is. My wife was in love and very much wanted to have sex with her AP, and went to great lengths to do it and to make sure he had a great time. My wife is really fun when she wants to be, so I’m quite sure he had a great time. That’s a whole different loadstone to bear. I struggle with it, but for whatever reason that one isn’t an automatic deal breaker for me. I’d much rather my wife have had sex with him BECAUSE she was in love with him than IN SPITE OF THE FACT SHE WASN’T. Of course she wanted to have sex with a man she was in love with, that’s part and parcel of being in love. If she’d gone off and had sex with some other man a bunch of times all the while not being in love with him, I’d know for sure she was just there to get her bell rung better than being with me, and that would be the dealbreaker for me.

Again, I confess that I’m a toxic masculine male, type 1A. I can live with the fact my wife fell in love with another man and had sex with him, I just want some certainty that when I’m having sex with her now that she isn’t comparing the experience with me unfavorably to sex with her AP.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 8:37 PM, Tuesday, May 9th]

No thanks,

I think guilt makes a wayward’s consider themselves as a bad person. I like your way of thinking, people are not all bad, or not all good. Your husband chose to have a long term affair, bad choice, lots of reasons, but it doesn’t mean he’s completely evil, he is not a killer, he is not a criminal, he is a cheat and liar. My ex, now tries to be a good person. That’s fine. He needs to think that way to move on with his life. He has good parts. He has bad parts. I think binary comes from guilt. They really have screwed up their self image of themselves.

Hard to come out of it with the same view of your self. What I am thinking is that he seems remorseful. Good sign.

I know that I often portray my ex-husband as pure evil. He was a total jerk, and a bunch of other things for quite a while. And he treated me very poorly. But ultimately, that’s the worst he’s done. I think he could be a good person for someone else. For me, he is ruined.

Time changes things for all of us, it will for him to

Confused, MD

I was told the sex was pretty much the same. The high came from being in love. That puppy love feeling was addictive. That feeling that someone admired you so much that you couldn’t get enough of it.

He never said it was the mind blowing sex. Funny as she was a prostitute. You think she would be top-notch.

I also think that the forbidden sex is so much more exciting.

And I can tell you he didn’t get any better as a recipient of professional services. you would think that you would learn something.

I read something once that said: attraction + obstacle = desire.

You really can't reproduce that in a marriage.

As mentioned, there is also new and forbidden which just ramps up desire even further.

My WS told me that the actual sex was, well, just sex. But what he was addicted to was the desire. Her for him. It was off the charts (or so she led him to believe). She'd ramp up sexting and videos and pics of lingerie and even porn sharing ahead of their planned trysts. He couldn't believe his luck in finding someone who so into him that she dreamed of, talked about and planned sex with him almost every waking hour. That got him addicted. Even when he tried to stop, she'd up the ante on what she was going to do for him next time she saw him. He couldn't (wouldn't) resist that. That led to him having an intense desire for her.

He also said that the sex was very tailored to him and his needs. Not that she didn't enjoy herself, I'm sure, he was never a selfish lover but she acted like her life was complete only if he got what he wanted, when he wanted. Nothing was off the table. And no talks about who was comfortable with what. He (his words) "ordered" her to do something and she complied immediately acting as if it was the hugest turn on to do whatever he wanted. Maybe it was. Or maybe she was playing a long game. I don't know. But he bought it and again, thought the fates had smiled on him.

You can't compete MD. It's fantasy and play and usually selfish. It's nothing that would last long term outside of the forbidden affair. And I'd venture a guess that it wouldn't satisfy you in the way it might satisfy an AP. Because you don't want transactional hot sex. You probably want intimacy, love and real passion.

Sex is a commodity. Anyone can have. Intimacy is harder to come by and to me, more valuable.

Wiseoldfool said:

I’ve been told exactly the opposite, that sex with her AP was largely unsatisfying even if it was initially exciting. She describes him as selfish and sloppy and says he consistently finished very quickly.

I question how much of that to believe, but it is what I was told.

If she had told me the opposite, that she preferred sex with him to sex with me, I’d be divorced and she knows that. Hence my doubt about the veracity of her claims because one thing I know for sure: she doesn’t want me to divorce her.

And here is the dilemma. I never asked if the sex was better. My WW offered up "I hated the sex, I just wanted that part to be over". For her longest LTA (18-24 months) was basically meeting her AP (a tow truck driver) in a commuter parking lot where they either had a quickie or she blew him before she had to be home from work. She said "I just had sex to keep the relationship going". My response was "that’s stupid. The relationship was nothing but having sex in a tow truck". Silence.

Her final LTA (lasted 6-7 months) was mostly BJs in the car on the way to places. They only had intercourse once then she immediately dumped him. So the "sex to maintain the relationship" seemed a bit of a fallacy. To me, the sex was the "validation". She had multiple what she calls ONS. These weren’t ONS in the traditional sense (drunken hookup with someone you just met) but men she built a flirtatious and inappropriate relationship with over weeks or months that culminated in sex one time and then immediately ended. She admitted pursuing these men to "see if she was attractive enough for them to have sex with her". So sex was the "validation" not something to maintain a relationship. The relationship ends as soon as she is "validated".

So maybe for her, getting "validated" weekly was the "relationship". I told her it was really pathetic to maintain a relationship that is nothing but sex in a truck if you hate the sex.

Although as others have said, I think it’s a defense mechanism to make what she did "not as bad" or to minimize the potential response. When she first admitted to cheating (after I named his name) she said "it was only once and I was really drunk". This was true but not the full story (preplanned while APs wife was out of town) but is that supposed to make it better? The "seal was broken" whether once or many times and whether she was drunk or it was preplanned. Her enjoyment or lack of enjoyment (or whether it is better or worse than with me. She did say she has only ever orgasmed with me. Yay…) is entirely immaterial to me (although I would hope something she did repeatedly for many years risking her marriage and livelihood would at least be enjoyable. Otherwise it’s just stupid and pathetic)….

Confusedmd:

She says the opposite. But why would I believe her when she went back again and again? Either LTA sex was better or she was so in love with AP that she wanted to have sex with him even if the sex was not so great. Pick your poison. Both are deal breakers

99 percent of all A are fantasy — and when the fantasy bubble breaks — the reality of it all is just as ugly to a WS with a conscience as it is to us. The feelings, the intense in the moment bullshit escapism, generally isn’t worth the damage to themselves, much less us.

I find most WS betray themselves first, their own standards, their own character.

But I do agree, infidelity is ALWAYS, always a deal breaker.

And if you’re done, you’re done. I totally understand.

It honestly doesn’t really help to know if it was a series of bad trades for validation, it doesn’t make any of this less painful.

I’ve only stayed for a new deal, for a rebuilt relationship, which only happens once we’re good regardless of the outcome.

I find most WS betray themselves first, their own standards, their own character.

Definitely true in the case of my WS and something he is wrestling with mightily - the loss of self-image but also the loss of how I (and the friends of ours who know) see him. He doesn't like the reflection he sees in my eyes, for good reason. He has destroyed some the things I used to admire the most about him - honest, integrity, and emotional intelligence.

For my WS's affair, it was much more about the EA than PA. The only sex they had was in the back of their cars, so I can't imagine it was great. Anyone who's been there knows how awkward it is. He also sometimes had ED with her. His AP was resistant to having sex for a long time, probably for similar reasons to the other female WSes described here.

The way my WS describes the whole experience is that the affair was like a super addictive drug. It made him feel really good - too good to stay away for long. It wasn't about the sex. It wasn't even validation or being "in love" after the initial months. It was needing the high over and over until it became a habit. He deluded himself into thinking that the good feelings would wear off after some time and make it easier for him to quit, but that didn't happen. He says that confessing to me (after I pushed hard for the truth) was how he forced himself to get out of it. Yay for using me as that crutch?

NoThanksForTheMemories wrote:

He has destroyed some the things I used to admire the most about him - honest, integrity, and emotional intelligence.

My WW destroyed some of the things I used to admire about her, too. Those things included her kindness and ability to be empathetic.

She also does not love what she sees in my eyes these days.

Nothanks and Wof, what do they say they see? Sadness and pain? Or disgust directed towards them?

This is very painful to read

[He also said that the sex was very tailored to him and his needs. Not that she didn't enjoy herself, I'm sure, he was never a selfish lover but she acted like her life was complete only if he got what he wanted, when he wanted. Nothing was off the table. And no talks about who was comfortable with what. He (his words) "ordered" her to do something and she complied immediately acting as if it was the hugest turn on to do whatever he wanted. Maybe it was. Or maybe she was playing a long game. I don't know. But he bought it and again, thought the fates had smiled on him.]

I wonder if my wife was like this to AP.

Confusedmd, it's not the emotions in my eyes but the version of himself in the way I see him - as someone deeply flawed, as someone who I can't admire because he failed to act with integrity, morality, and self-control. He's not strong in my eyes. He's no longer someone I look at as an equal.

I don't know if my view of him will change one day. It depends on what happens with us and also with his own behavior.

Hi again.

One of the reasons for my wife continuing the affair for so long was because I "didn't need her". It can't make sense.

Another reason is she didn't think I cared.

Have any of you been given these reasons? How are they valid/not valid reasons? How do I make sense of them?

Speaking second hand (third hand?).

One of the multiple affairs I revealed and helped bring to an end was a three year long affair by a WW that is close with both my wife and me.

In the aftermath I can tell you that:

1) she preferred sex with her LTAP.

2) she didn't feel bad about it at the time and used her husband rejecting her advances as part of her rationalization.

3) LTAP was putting in much more effort in bed.

4) she thought that her husband wouldn't mind so much AND she specifically references not having a fidelity clause in her self written marriage vows. She felt it was not "that bad" to just have a sex partner on the side.

She is capable of truly selfish behavior in this sense.

On the other hand she has always been a good friend. Would help us at the drop of a hat. Came over and watched my kids when my wife was on travel when my father was dying so I could go see him. Etc.

She is a great compartmentalizer. World class really.

Edit to add: Three years later (after their DDay), they finally moved away (LTAP was always 30 min away which chafed the BH). They really only rugswept. We were their only friends that knew. I don't believe she is really reformed. None of this may be relevant to your story.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 5:51 PM, Sunday, May 21st]

Confusedmd, the "BP won't care" is something I heard from my WP. In the middle of the affair, when I pressed him on why he'd grown so distant, he cited an earlier conversation that led him to believe that I didn't care about being married. It was a gross misinterpretation of what I'd said, and he was already in the affair when I'd said it, so I think these kinds of statements are more about the WPs creating justifications in their minds. These are not truths. They are distortions in the WPs thinking. I think it's best that we try not to take them too seriously.