SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

File.

Serve.

Watch.

I asked my wife a few questions via text message three days ago and have still not received and answer.

No response is a sort of response.

If she does not want to talk to you, then you should not talk to her.

Three days? She should’ve answered within a few minutes if she were at all interested in giving you what you need. Her non answer is the answer.

Which lets me know she doesn't get it.

I’d bet she gets it, she’s just trying to wait you out like all the times before.

She’s stalling… avoiding. It’s that simple.

You know how when two people just work well together, things run smoothly? It’s effortless. You don’t stop to think “why aren’t they responding?” You don’t wonder about the state of things. You just know everything is good.

seems to me like you are waiting for that next interview to be scheduled or a promised job offer… but it never shows. You wait and wait and wonder.

You guys aren’t a team anymore. Until she acts like a teammate in your marriage, give it up.

Like Crazy Cat Lady said.

Once filed the D can be stopped at any time if both parties agree.

Presently she feels a bit of the sorry donkey face and nil actions will allow the rug sweeping to begin.

When telling the children keep it age appropriate that Mum had a boyfriend and it hurt Daddy. Try not to be disrespectful about WW in front of them. Communication is key here!

One day at a time.

[This message edited by Buffer at 11:19 PM, July 30th (Friday)]

So really. What do you want here? What advice are you looking for?

If it is strategies to fix this, there is not much there absent full on psychiatric treatment. How do you make someone not love someone? She loves her OM. She can’t quit. She can apologize and swear up and down and lie deny and cry. She has a fantasy love and nothing has been able to knock her off that fence.

If you are looking for coping strategies, again there are not many. Sure you can spend your life trying to make her get it. You can monitor and beg for tidbits. You can hope. You can play don’t ask don’t tell. But really, is this how you want to live?

If you are looking for an exit strategy, you’ve been given one. Divorce her lying disrespectful ass. I get that it is daunting. I get there are many issues that must be handled. But do not make yourself a prisoner of inertia. One step follows another. But you have to take the first step.

How much time, and grief, and bargaining and putting yourself last will you accept? What kind of magic juju are you waiting for? For fucks sake she loves another. It ain’t going away. She has disrespected you for years. She talks shit about you.

Every minute you hang around is another minute she can manipulate you. She already thinks she has control. How do we know? Because she is amazed she is not already out in the street. So she goes to the proven examples that worked in the past. So sorry so sorry, so sorry.

You want out of misery? Act. Look. The Titanic has hit the iceberg. Waiting around to see what happens is a poor idea. Be honest. Isn’t that what you are doing?

She loves another man and has excluded you from her inner life. You are a convenience, nothing more. Doubt that? Then why has she not, on her own, set up a poly? Why has she not, on her own, blown up the OM?

You don’t want us to speculate if it was a PA. Fine. Why aren’t you? Isn’t it the way you avoid acting? The last step that forces you to act?

Maybe I have this all wrong. Maybe you are not as passive as you appear. But keeping the status quo so everyone including your lying deceitful wife who loves someone else can enjoy a nice vacation seems like self abnegation to the point of masochism!

longsadstory1952 - point taken. Earlier today I did the actual math on how long this has been going on. Well, how many days it’s been since I became aware of it. Wow, that was a wake up call. 1380 days since the race trip. 1380 days since I first asked her to stop and she hasn’t. I know the advice to file is the right way to go, I’m not sure what’s been keeping me from doing it. I don’t think I’ll find the answer to that on this forum. I’m not super mad at her. I have lot of other feelings, but anger isn’t the primary feeling. I guess at this point I’m not in a rush, not in a rush to try to shock her into changing because I’ve filed for divorce. A lot of the advice I’ve received on this forum has been to force her hand in some way with the end goal being her snapping out of the fantasy and changing. I don’t care about doing that. I don’t think it’s going to happen, and if it does, I don’t see myself trusting it. I kind of just don’t care about her either way. I see her as a person who has used me and lied to me. I don’t feel like I want to fight for her. I’ll file when I feel like it. In the meantime she can spin her wheels or do whatever she wants.

Concerning the passive statement, I don’t at all feel like I’ve been passive. I think pathetic might apply. I thought I was being aggressive, but looking back it seems more pathetic than anything else. “Chose me chose me.” I wish I would have handled this differently from the start. I’d either be divorced now or in real reconciliation. I hadn’t had any previous experience with a cheating spouse before this happened. I know I would have handled it differently if I had to do it again. Hopefully I won’t have any future need for the tactics I’ve learned on this forum.

Legatus -

Gently, you’re being passive right now. You’ll "file when I feel like it" is definition of passive. You’re in self imposed limbo. I’m not trying to push you, moreso nudging you not to stay in this holding pattern for too long. People say "don’t rush" and in your case 1380 days have come & gone, it wouldn’t be rushing to take immediate steps to move your life forward in a positive direction.

Don’t beat yourself up. We all wish we had a million do overs. Forgive yourself for what you did with what you knew at that time. You weren’t on SI 1380 days ago.

Good luck to you. I really wish your wife would have shocked us all & done what was needed to keep you.

Legatus,

You wrote

We have a big annual family camping trip in a week. It's just our nuclear family. I can't think of a good way to exclude her. We can play nice though for a week of camping. I think the kids would be disappointed if she was excluded. After the trip is when I'll start filling out paperwork and consider talking to the kids. Once I tell them anything about it I am kind of locked in.

Is your wife still going on this trip? Are you still planning to file after this trip? Sounds like you're still not sure when you want to file. If you truly are indifferent to any action(s) your wife might take at this point, why not start the process now? It will take some time and you can always delay or halt the divorce proceedings if you have a change of heart. You're in limbo at the moment and that isn't ideal for your mental health.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is so true.

Like Aletheia, I am not saying you need to file now nor you have to file at all. Perhaps you see something we don't that your wife is worthy for R. I am just saying the longer you stay in limbo, the closer you get back to status quo like 1380 days ago. You have seen this cycle repeated itself many times.

Best of luck.

Filing isn’t going to force her hand more than it’s to set…something…anything in motion. Living as you are living is going to continue to eat at you.

Listen, this is obviously devastating for you. We just want you to be able to put this behind you as fast as possible.

From another angle, what’s the downside with not filing?

1380 days, looks like you've waited long enough. You say yourself that you don't know what are you waiting for.

The main purpose of filing for divorce is not to shock and force her to change. If that's not what you want, you wouldn't use it that way anyway.

Which result do you expect from waiting, what will your waiting change? Apparently nothing. Then you shouldn't wait. I'm not just talking about waiting to file for divorce, but you shouldn't wait to take steps to achieve whatever you want to happen.

Legatus, you would really benefit from getting an IC for yourself. It sounds like the original motivation you felt to move forward ended and now you're settling back into complacency. It's possible that you can heal from fully emotionally detaching from her while still living with her. It's also highly unlikely because she will push your buttons whether it's continuing to date in front of you or general unremorsefulness from her. Your only focus right now needs to be on yourself and your kids doing whatever needs to be done to help yourself so that you won't look back on what choices you made today and call them too "pathetic".

Even if you're not ready to D, there are things you could be doing - dropping all pretense of a romantic relationship, separate bedrooms, co-parenting talks only, figuring out how to physically separate, etc. If you change nothing, it's right here you will stay for the next 1,380 days.

not in a rush to try to shock her into changing because I’ve filed for divorce. A lot of the advice I’ve received on this forum has been to force her hand in some way with the end goal being her snapping out of the fantasy and changing.

I hope nobody on SI has given you this sort of advice. It's possibly the worst advice that could be given. The mantra here is "you cannot control her, and you cannot control the outcome, you can only control you." Anybody suggesting otherwise is selling you snake oil. D is not a gambit to catalyze her to do something. You file D because you want to be divorced.

Concerning the passive statement, I don’t at all feel like I’ve been passive.

Trust me, you have been and are still being passive. You're living in infidelity, and you are taking no affirmative steps to get out of infidelity. My friend, you are almost a trope for passive. The definition of passive.

I don’t feel like I want to fight for her.

And so you shouldn't! BS should NEVER 'fight' for the WS. Ever.

This just puts the BS in s weaker position, prostrating themselves at the feet of the party that abused them. Nope. Nope. Nope.

It will also destroy whatever self-respect the BS have.

I’m not going to get mired down in the passive debate. Here’s what’s happening, after 1380 days I finally don’t care if she sits out in our driveway and makes out with him. Granted, I was slow on the uptake, but she’s not worth it. It’s the first relief I’ve felt in a really long time. I am free of worry or fear of what she’s going to do next. . I want to rest with this relief before I dive into the hell that I know divorce to be. Not sure if I mentioned this, but both may parents were married three times I know the next leg of this journey is draining. I feel good right now, I haven’t for awhile. I’m not waiting for her sake, , I’m giving myself a break.

It’s the first relief I’ve felt in a really long time.

That’s really good to hear.

I want to rest with this relief before I dive into the hell that I know divorce to be.

Makes complete sense and I don’t blame you, it’s why I wanted to nudge not push ☺️

Please don’t denigrate yourself, it’s not like you’re handed a manual at your wedding, "What to do if Your Spouse Cheats"

This is the message I sent earlier today

over the past few days I have been taking a walk down memory

lane. Starting from October 21st 2017. It's been 1,380 days since

I started to understand that you had a relationship with another man

who was more important to you than I am. After listening to the

secret phone call, seeing all the selfies you sent him, and reading

messages, I knew there was a deep emotional affair in play and from

what I had read and uncovered, the affair had been taking place for a

long time already. To date, it has been going on for 3,328 days. The

starting date I'm using is when you started to refer to each other as

each other's counselors. When you two became emotionally dependent on

each other. The time period Barry was throwing a tantrum about you

moving and the two of you were sending emotional emails about missing

each other. We've known each other for about 8,097 days. So, the

math on that is, you've been having at least an emotional affair for

41 % of our relationship. We've been married 5,749 days. You've

had a boyfriend for 58% of our marriage.

When I look at these numbers it terrifies me. Because if we just

talk about individual incidents, then it's easy to minimize and not

think it was as bad as it is. I've been adding things up recently to

take a holistic look and I've discovered I'm pretty disappointed in

myself. It's impossible for me to quantify the impact of your affair

with Barry on our marriage for the 1948 days I was unaware of it.

Although I did see the result of that impact when I found out and

confronted you about it. You protected him and your relationship

with him. Called me crazy, controlling, and paranoid. I asked you

to choose early on and you chose him. You have continued to choose

him over and over. I received my inheritance around the same time

you got a boyfriend. I have to wonder if we would have seperated

earlier if not for that money. Before that money we had few assets

and more debt than anything else. Based on the way you spoke to your

boyfriend about me, I think you would have left long ago if not for

the money. That makes me feel used, because I believe I was used.

I don't consider this an on and off affair. Sure there were time

periods when you didn't communicate with him. It never ended though,

not in your heart, and not in his heart. You would wait for things to

cool off, until the coast was clear and had found a new more covert

way of communicating and then pick up right where you left off. What

I found interesting about the recent communication is that none of the

boundaries we discussed were respected. Obviously talking to him

again was a big boundary that was crossed. Based on the way you acted

when I asked for your login information I knew there was communication

occurring again. I had really hoped that when you showed the letters

they would be different from the ones before (not that it would be

ok). I thought I could be more understanding if you were at least

trying to make it different from before. It would have shown me you

were thinking about me and us on some level. But you did all the same

things. Complained about me, our marriage, made me out to be a

victimizer, made fun of me, and the two of you were just as

emotionally vulnerable with each other as you had been before. I

imagine the two of you both enjoyed the fact that you teamed up on me

and tricked me again. Stupid legatis will never know. I know you'll

probably deny it until your death bed, but I still can't believe that

a man and woman who say the things you two say to each other in these

messages didn't have a physical affair when they spent the night

together alone.

Back to memory lane.

October 2017 - You stay with Barry for the weeknd having lied about

his wife being there.

Christmas 2017 - we were already trying to keep it together. You were

maintaining he was just a friend and refusing to cut off contact. Two

days before Christmas I found all the What's app photos you sent to

him. I stay in a hotel that night and we had to cancel our Christmas

Eve plans with herk and Krista.

November 2017 - We go to my sister's wedding. I'm barely holding

myself together, and might be giving myself too much credit by saying

even that. You communicate with Barry and send him selfies when you

are all dolled up.

January - 2018 - We go to Suttons bay to reconnect. Good weekend, but

now I just feel like I was rewarding you for treating me like shit. I

suspect you were in contact with your boyfriend during the trip. I

mean, you always are.

April -2018 - The great smoky mountains. You communicate with your

boyfriend throughout the trip. Emotions are still running high and

while we saw a lot of cool things, the trip was overshadowed for me by

all my fears and feelings of sadness because of you and your

boyfriend.

Ok, I could go on and on with this type of timeline. My point is

there have been so many weekends, days, trips, experiences that have

been overshadowed and ruined by you having a boyfriend. I've been

experiencing that for the last 1380 days. I wonder how my life would

be different right now if I had divorced you the first time I really

wanted to, which was right after the secret phone call. I'm guessing

it would have some new challenges being a single dad. I'm guessing I

would feel safer though and not have you and your boyfriend upturn my

life every so often. You say that I am more important to you than

your boyfriend. You say that he isn't that important to you. If he's

not that important to you, that would be really sad for me, because

that would mean you were/are willing to hurt me in such a deep way

repeatedly for someone you don't care that much about. And if that's

the case, you must really not care about me much at all.

Now you're asking me to try to rebuild trust with you again. Here I

stand wondering if it's even possible. I really don't know if it is.

I love you, but that doesn't equal trust. I think it's possible to

love someone without ever being able to trust them again. When you

ask me to work on trusting you again I can;t help but think of the

past 1380 days and what you did during that time to earn trust. I'm

not just talking about the obvious fact that you still had a

boyfriend. You let me have hope based on lies. You let me spend

money on you so you could have experiences. I stayed home with the

kids while you went away for work, because I knew you needed it to be

happy. I didn't stand in the way of you taking the job your boyfriend

set up for you. I've been playing for the last 1380 days. That makes

me feel pretty bad about myself. Weak because I was unable to protect

myself. Sad, because I had hope to trust you again. Sad, because

while you may love me, you love your boyfriend more.

There hasn't been a lot of upside in me staying in this marriage for

the past 1380 days. At least you got to have a boyfriend the whole

time. Mostly I've stayed in and tried to work it out for the kids. If

we ever divorced I would want to be able to look them in the eye later

in life and honestly tell them I did everything I could to save it.

You won't be able to do that. When you ask for another chance, this

is my internal dialog. I was actually really getting to the point

where I was trusting you, enough so I didn't feel compelled to ask to

see your devices all the time. I was proud of myself for being brave

and despite my fears trying to trust you and I thought it had been

worth the risk until now. I have said we are back to square one, but

really, I trust you less than I ever have. I ask myself what's in it

for me to try again? Will it be more of the same? Two years from

now will I trust you or will I find out after all that time that I

haven't been able to trust you again. 1380 days since I knew you had

a boyfriend and stayed with you - Isn't this enough? Do I want this

number any higher?

You have to ask yourself, if you take away the obstacles, like selling

the house, you finding full time work (you'll need medical insurance),

and being single parents. If you don't consider those things at all,

wouldn't you be happier once the dust settled? I'm scared of going

through those things too, but more scared about staying with you and

going through what I've been going through for 1380 days. I think I

could be a lot happier than I have been. Can I forgive you, I think

so. Can I trust you, no. Am I willing to go through the

reconciliation process again and risk being a fool and feeling this

way again? That's the question I don't have the answer to right now.

I'm in limbo,and the sad part is there's very little if not nothing

you can do to influence that decision in the short term, which

unfortunately is when the decision will be made. I'm not out to hurt

you or get back at you. I'm not super angry like I was last time.

I'm sad and I'm disappointed in myself for not doing a better job

taking care of myself.

[This message edited by Legatus at 10:37 PM, August 2nd (Monday)]

Legatus,

Wow. I don't know what to say. You've said it all in the message to your wife. Has she responded at all? Not sure what she could say at this point. If she leaves you another donkey card, you should file tomorrow...

She walked in teary eyed and begging for a chance. I reiterated I haven’t made a decision even though I have. I sent it about 2 hours before she had an appointment with her IC. I’m not an asshole. I wanted to make sure she had a chance to unpack it in counseling. She’s showing a lot of remorse and is trying really hard right now. It may be sincere, but all I see is manipulation. That may or may not be what it is. I’m just not willing to take the chance. She used those up already, so it would be sad for her if things are different now. I’m just done listening.