SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BS here, and I agree with CT. Yes you cheated, you're losing your marriage, that's punishment enough. Follow the law, you need your fair share of the financials in order to be a good parent. If she's going to get angry with you, and drag your name through the mud, she would probably do that anyways, even if you gave her everything. As much as many of us BS would love for the WS to be in financial ruin, that is not the law. Just be fair in your settlement. If where you live is 50/50 then give her 50/50.

[This message edited by nomudnolotus at 1:22 AM, Wednesday, June 1st]

I do not expect kindness - there is none to give it to me. But I also can not accept total destruction.

I can’t speak for your wife, but I know as a BS whose husband slept with prostitutes, I endured total destruction. I divorced him, so I lost my house and my finances. I also lost my ability to trust, 20 years of my life, etc. Everything I wanted, everything I ever worked for, dreamed of, poof, gone - because he wanted stupid thrills by buying some pussy.

For 45 years of my life, the prostitution industry had very little affect on me. No reason it would. Now, that shit looms large, and I never, ever invited it in. The STD he gave me, the pimps that were angry when I was outspoken, I never deserved any of it. Total. Fucking. Destruction.

So, from my admittedly limited perspective, I can’t understand why you feel as though you shouldn’t have to accept total destruction. Have you discussed that with your IC? It might be something to talk about. Maybe a few more bites of that humble pie might be an order? I know I’m coming off harsh, my apologies, but maybe if you remember what you gave, it’ll be easier to swallow what you get?

[This message edited by GiveTimeTime at 3:09 AM, Wednesday, June 1st]

GTT, what happened to you noone deserves. Spacemans wife didnt deserve his A either. Its sad to hear that you got served a shittier sandwich than most.

You did what you had to do to get out of infidelity, just as OPs wife is doing what she needs to do for herself.

I cant get my head wrapped around the idea that anyone would ever benefit from the intentional total destruction of another human being. Its just... vengeful. How is vengeance good for anyone? It may give you satisfaction to turn the tables on the wayward. Bring back, temporarily, a sense of control over a situation you had no say in whatsoever. I get that. All the sense of empowerment and taking back your life and exerting your strength. All good things, when done in the aim of protecting yourself and healing yourself.

But... where does protecting and healing yourself cross over into purposefully seeking the destruction of another? Isnt it better to draw the line at the things you need to care for yourself and your loved ones safety and health?

I have not been through a divorce, I am a WW, but I have seen the effects that a divorce would have had on my mom if she had chosen to D my dad after his A. She was a homemaker at that point in their M. She met and dated my dad when he was recently separated from his first wife. One of her points of pride was how she, "made sure dad gave her the half she was owed." I was told that in elementary school before my dad's A blew up in middle school.

My mom married a man who essentially cheated with her on his 1st wife and was entitled enough to dicker over giving her the 50% MI law said she should have. How do you think it would go for my mom if she D'd my dad? She stuck it out, got a masters in teaching and stayed. Got to the point where she could have left if wanted to. Not sure what consideration made her stay? I mean... she talked a lot about women not needing a man...

All this to say, I can empathise with your situation having a lying cheating and vindictive WH who would rather leave you broke than do the decent thing and let you go in peace with your half.

I cant help but think the situation in Spacemans case is a bit different from the one you experienced. He had an A, they tried to make it work. She asked him to leave and he did. Now shes sleeping with another man in the house he helped build as a metaphorical apology to her. Its a very... grey situation, much like my dads relationship with my mom was before he divorced his 1st wife.

Instead of going for his pound of flesh, accusing his BW of cheating (technically she is, and stringing him along too), he is still reluctant to D her. Not because of the house he wants a fair share of, but because he wants to R with her. Thats not what she wants, and that is perfectly fine- she doesnt owe him R after what he did in his A.

At this point though, Spaceman seems to think it best to D as it doesnt look like R will ever be truly possible. According to his posts, BW makes a good living, nearly what he earns himself. However, they stretched to get into the home they rebuilt and cannot afford it seperately. It looks like she doesnt have resources to buy him out either. Since it appears he wont have a comfortable place to live and share custody in their more expensive neighborhood unless the house is sold, he is considering putting the sale and division of the home assets as an article in their D.

I dont get the impression Spaceman wants to screw his BW out of anything. I do get the impression that his BW is still very hurt in all this, lost in all the chaos and coming change and trying to keep one corner of her previous life intact. I dont know that she would normally be a person who would threaten and blackmail and manipulate to get what she wants, but the level of pain she is in... would be enough to put any rational person in that place.

Spaceman, you definitely are reaping what you sowed with your A. However, laws are in place for situations like these to prevent people making decisions based out of their primal need for control in the chaos. Or, for you, a desperate need to remove themselves from their own shame and self hatred. Decisions based on these kind of emotions rarely lead to healing for either party. And often just leave more devastation in their wake...

If I were in Spacemans situation, I would not add getting a fair divorce to the heap of things to be ashamed. The destruction of the M from his A is enough at this point.

GTT, what your WH did is beyond the pale and the raw deal you got for your own survival was something your xWH should be ashamed of.

So, from my admittedly limited perspective, I can’t understand why you feel as though you shouldn’t have to accept total destruction. Have you discussed that with your IC? It might be something to talk about.

Fair enough point of view. Even with all the shame, guilt and loss of family that I am dealing, I can only imagine the pain she went through after I told her (after she asked) about my cheating. I am really trying to find a way that she gets good piece of the pie and she will not be left out on the street by any means. But I will not sacrifice my parenting prospects as well. That's in the nutshell.

And truth be told, we both are like injured animals that are trying to keep some kind of normalcy for our children. She is having light depression and new relationships on top, I am on sleeping pills subscription after having insomnia for 3-4 months and barely dealing with triggers on every day basis. We both go to IC and are healing separately. With all that being said, things are better than 3 months ago - at least something. But, yes, it is a total mess and a bed that I made.

I dont know that she would normally be a person who would threaten and blackmail and manipulate to get what she wants, but the level of pain she is in... would be enough to put any rational person in that place.

Her moral compass is fine, that is thing I really admired her about in the relationships. She always stuck up for the right thing. Now, she has a tendency of my way or highway and acknowledging her responsibility (even way before i cheated) was quite big issue (the things that were said during the arguments were out of any line), but I don't believe that she is vengeful human being. I guess the house still is the one calm corner of her life and for her I am the monster that wants to take that away. In her opinion, I am a borderline narcisist and an emotional bully. At the same time, she couple of times said to me: "If I will want, somebody will move in if that will be good for me." On a side note, I have hard time deciphering our relationship - I think we were extremely anxious couple due to unreal expectations both ways that build huge resentment AND on top of that I had my own issues. To be discussed with IC.

If she's going to get angry with you, and drag your name through the mud, she would probably do that anyways, even if you gave her everything.

This part I am kind-of not afraid. When I had to move out, I called my parents, told about what I did (cheating), drove to my mother-in-law and explained that I have really hurt her daughter by cheating on her and would understand if she would not like to have any further contacts.

It was bit stressful, but i did not minced words and was not blaming my ex. So I am kind of 'proud' about myself. So the people who are important to me are aware of the situation.

I just really dislike this type of communication of threats and treating me like a piece of shit - coursing out and screaming in front of kids, etc. I have signalled about this to my ex many times, but she barely was never able to contain herself during the big arguments (though she says that I am provoking her with my communication; which also has some grain of truth as in i have a tendency for passive-agressive patterns that I try to clean up). Honestly, speaking I really do not know where the truth is any more.

I for sure know that I cheated and was, that we were unhappy and did not know how to deal with heavy stuff even before cheating, but then I get in to this cycle of thinking for weeks - what if she is right, maybe I really am a narcisist and will screw up lifes of my kids as well? And so on.... I guess this all is connected to not having clear values/understanding who I really am. At least I have defined fatherhood as no.1 priority and that really helps in the steps to fix the moral compass.

[This message edited by Spaceman at 8:55 AM, Wednesday, June 1st]

Unless you are trying to completely snow everyone here, you aren't a narcissist. You should look up the traits. We all have some narc traits, whether we realize it or not. But a true narc does not show empathy, does not admit mistakes, and if someone tries to leave them, they burn them to the ground.

I just really dislike this type of communication of threats and treating me like a piece of shit - coursing out and screaming in front of kids, etc.

Spaceman, no one should be treated like a piece of shit. Your wife needs more and better IC than she is getting if this is the way she treats you IN FRONT OF THE KIDS. How do you react during these tirades in front of the kids? If it's to be passive and say nothing, you're teaching the kids to accept abuse. You're teaching kids that if you do something wrong, try your best to atone, that even after that you deserve abuse. This is not healthy. For you or the kids. No one deserves less than respect. Even a cheater. Even if all the respect she can muster is to treat you coldly and give one word answers to any questions. Even if she has to remove herself from your presence if she can't keep it together. These are all respectful ways of dealing with her overwhelming pain and anger. Yelling and screaming and treating you like a piece of shit only serve to diminish her own dignity. She is hurting herself as much as she is hurting you during these outbursts. And the kids are absorbing everything.

Your response doesn't have to throw more gasoline on the fire, but a firm, "I refuse to be spoken to in this manner. We need to stop this discussion as I am overwhelmed by this treatment and the discussion will no longer be productive." If she cannot remove herself from the situation, you need to remove yourself from it. Excusing yourself with as much "I statements" as possible, keeping the statements "I am feeling overwhelmed by this treatment" and "I cannot continue this discussion in a productive or healthy manner and need it to stop" or "I need a time out right now, I am overwhelmed. We can come back to this discussion when I have calmed down- let's give it a rest until X time." And then call her or contact her at X time.

Lather rinse repeat. If you cannot have civil discussion verbally, "I am easily overwhelmed during our discussions. In order to keep our communication productive and respectful, I need to communicate with you only through email/text." Then, if she continues to try and rope you in, "I can only discuss this through email/text, I am overwhelmed." And then, respond only in single syllables until you leave. You need to shut this behavior down and train your wife to respect you. Keep your convos to kids/finances/house. THAT IS IT.

While you divorce, you are her enemy. She is a business partner who is determined to ruin your reputation, drag you through the mud and take over your "company" (finances) in a hostile manner solely for the sake of your financial ruin. Catwoman is a very experienced poster here and has seen A LOT of hostile divorces and gives great advice. Barcher is another poster who has been through a very contentious divorce with a vengeful woman and had to fight VERY hard for the custody of his children. It would be good to listen to their advice and read their threads. Even though they are BS's, their wisdom and expertise will be a good guide for you in processing a fair divorce for both of you.

Now, she has a tendency of my way or highway and acknowledging her responsibility (even way before i cheated) was quite big issue (the things that were said during the arguments were out of any line), but I don't believe that she is vengeful human being.

Is this tendency to not accept blame something from the M or from a reaction to the A? Part of the work is separating the "me" from the "she" and the "we." Me stuff is all the bullshit you perpetrated in the A. It seems you have a good grasp of that. Looking at your contribution to the marital breakdown is also a "me" thing.

It seems, if she has struggled to take ownership of her mistakes and errors before the A, that that would be a "she" pattern of behavior that SHE needs to work on. She may be blaming and abusing you to avoid looking at herself and her own contribution to the breakdown of the M. My BH did this- became abusive of me in his hurt and rage to the point where I wrote D papers and said, "Get into IC or I will D you. You have a month." It was a shit move, but I needed to respect myself enough to refuse the disrespectful and abusive treatment he was escalating. He has been in IC pretty consistently since then and has a much better grasp of his emotions and has been much more accountable for the "he" stuff he contributed to the breakdown of our M. It is breathtaking how much he has grown and I am so proud of him and very humbled that he is still in the M after everything. He still drives me batshit crazy (read any of my threads), but I no longer see it as him being a narc. Just seeing him as a human who needs to fix his shit. Like we all do. But, when currently he's in IC, I see that he's actually serious about his work.

That being said, the "we" stuff needs to be addressed too. Ask your IC if you can work on communication strategies for adversarial situations. As you move toward D, things will likely hit the fan and get more tense. You need to learn coping skills and communication skills to help you navigate this time and still be able to function as a human being and good father to your kids.

And remember, the "me" stuff is A related, FOO related and communication skills related. Your BW's "she" stuff has NOTHING to do with "causing" the A issues. Neither does your "we" stuff have any contribution to your decision to have an A. I think you've shown a good amount of accountability in taking ownership of your choices with your in-laws and family. That's good work.

It's especially important to restrict your discussions to electronic communication. The paper trail it allows will help you in the D. Especially as she will try to rub the A in your face to get what she wants.

If her BF continues to live at the house and sets his residency there (no other home, mail gets delivered there), I would include his potential $$ contributions to the maintenance of the home in the D. Catwoman has already spoken about this.

And the narc accusations she's throwing at you are bullshit (if, as NMNL says, you're not snowing us). If anything, she is displaying narc behaviors towards you. I am NOT saying she's a narc, but her behaviors in her hurt and pain are narcissistic. When people behave out of character like this, it's best to give them benefit of the doubt. Besides, only about 1% of the population are clinical narcs. The rest of us are just selfish, damaged human beings to some degree or another.

Take care of yourself. Don't let your shame and remorse dictate the life changing consequences of your actions. You don't deserve anything less than respect.

Thank you for advice regarding communication, i guess i need few days to process all the triggers that happened (regarding a new guy in my kitchen).

I do not feel comfortable to speak about my pain, as i do not want diminish what my ex went through or complain about her. Truth be told, I was really never good at adressing what is bothering me - my usual way was to bury and push forward.

I really believe (edit - without a shadow of a doubt!) that my ex is good person in her heart - she has her issues, but she tried to stand up for us and gave a chance when the things were going really south. Shame that we both did not know how to work around A - I buried it and did not gave her the attention she needed, she somehow tried to move forward, but i was not able to see the pain she was in and to focus only what matters - on her.

Is this tendency to not accept blame something from the M or from a reaction to the A?

It was also before the A. That is the only issue I have with her, otherwise she is great person to be with. She felt that I am neglecting her needs and not fully being emotionally there and her response was not really healthy. But that is also where I was really bad - first, in setting boundaries and foremost - in putting her needs above my me-me-me tendencies (lack of empathy). But yes - there were countless arguments where she was screaming/extremely insulting me (more after the A, so that must be extreme hurt talking; there was even i hope you die thrown in etc.; but also before that) or telling that I will leave her and the kids (which did not had any ground in reality) or some other insults. But I was not innocent - i am usually reserved, but i remember this specific super heated argument where I screamed back at her that "you do not mean anything to me!" Now that is also a shitty thing to say to your partner. That was only time when i kind-of-snapped (and never adressed it with her), otherwise i basically started to ignore/accept (yes, that is terrible response). Plus resentment in me defiantly added to the fire, I am not a victim or an innocent person here. Just (I think i can say for both of us) it felt that we are walking on eggshells all the time - she did not know what to expect from me and my borderline gaslighting and i from her coldness and expecting the outbursts (edit - honestly speaking, i think i subconsciously provoked some conflicts for sure; second edit - my need to try to win argument, but not to look for common solution was also huge factor. So maybe I am projecting my way or highway a bit on her). Or times I was being home bit earlier than her and felt really strange physical discomfort when she came home (as if I did not have right to be earlier or just sit by the TV).

And second specific argument I remember was: I asked her - "Do you think that speaking like this is acceptable and that I am provoking you to say things like that?" And she without a doubt said - yes, that is your fault.

There was time when I told that it is not ok to speak like that, but it did not change anything. I never spoke with IC about it, just feels too shameful to address. It was easier to dig in and discuss my cheating and emotional unavailability, then to start addressing this.

But at the end of the day - why I 100% believe she is a good person that was hurt and damaged too much - it was all solvable even after the discovery (I did not had emotional capacity at the time to understand it, now this is the real truth that realised only after couple of months in therapy). She even asked me to find a therapist year or two ago, but I was not able to comprehend that it is her cry for help and was dragging feet for way too long. When finally found set the meeting, it was too late, she already made up her mind and it is fair enough.

By the end of me moving out, we both were in really crappy physical condition (we both were rather youthful and sporty couple). Now we look like 8 years ago when we met - at least something good happened :)

[This message edited by Spaceman at 4:27 PM, Wednesday, June 1st]

It sounds like you guys had a traumatic marriage from the get-go. Her blaming you for her yelling, accusations, and insults is blame shifting and abusive. "I hope you die!" Who the fuck says that to their partner??!?

The M sounds like it was an abusive one. You guys may have had times of peace or happiness, but the communication patterns were messed up for sure. Stuffing your resentments is a recipe for emotional detachment and a void of intimacy in the M.

When you snapped, was it after a lengthy argument with her doing these insulting things? It's not uncommon for abusers to push and push boundaries until the other snaps. Then they get the, "AHA! You're an awful person after all, I WAS RIGHT!" moment. I used to do this to my BH too. He would turtle up and I would keep pounding him until he would snap. It's baiting.

"Do you think that speaking like this is acceptable and that I am provoking you to say things like that?" And she without a doubt said - yes, that is your fault.

Well, there you have it in a nutshell. It's your fault she treats you with out consideration.

No offense, but I'm wondering how great the M really was before your A. Another thing to separate out from the A- the unpleasant, unsupportive state your M was in before the A. Mine was like this too, but I got into counseling, he got into counseling and we are still working it together. BH has really owned a lot of his shit and made a lot of changes too. We couldn't go on as we had before the A. As many here say, I killed the old M with my A. It's only now that we're trying to build a new M.

I'm sorry you guys weren't able to get to that place.

Hello Spaceman, I've not been on this forum much this year, just read this thread and it really hit home for me as your situation is very similar to mine. Same time frame (about 2 yrs since Dday), cheated with prostitutes, BS was determined about not wanting to reconcile, I've been in I/C for 1.5 yrs now, tried to do everything possible to help her heal and make her feel safe, but nothing worked, eventually accept that R was not possible as she insisted, so I've been trying to do everything I can to help her heal, but my BS said that she just wanted revenge and destroy me anyway she can.

Is there any positive experience of coming back from situations like mine?

I'm in the same boat as you, asked the same question countless times in the past 2 years and had given up on it.

Around 4 months ago I had complete emotional breakdown / kind of catharsis. I was showering and it hit me - how much pain I have put on her and kids shoulders. I felt this pain so vividly that I just sat under the shower and let the pain take over. It was so terrible that I ended up crying and weeping for more than 2 hours. It felt it like I broke into million pieces. It was a moment when I decided that I have to mold this new person that will come out of this pain and guilt. I do not want to be my previous self and no matter how hard it will be, I will work to not be that person ever again.

I had a similar experience, it's like an awakening, it just suddenly hit you like a ton of bricks. I started having depression after that, pretty much until now, I/C really helps to cope with it.

It was a very strange feeling reading through your posts, somewhat like reading my own, lots of different emotion just flowed through, really hard to describe.

I guess what I'm also trying to say is that I understand exactly what you're going through. Feel free to hit me up with PM if you'd like to chat further.

A silly question - is private messages feature available only for users who are donating to SI?

A silly question - is private messages feature available only for users who are donating to SI?

No, but I think you need 50 posts before you can send one.

Ok, I think the proverbial straw has broken the back of the camel. I tried to initiate calm conversation about all the possibilities to not sell the house. Only thing that I got out of that is getting screamed at in my own yard, in front of the kids and telling in front of the kids that I should look for my money "from prostitutes I visited". It is enough - no more contact, no more conversations, no more. Only contact related to kids.

She stated that either I give her fully the house or she will tell the kids that I want to take away their childhood. No buyout, no deferred payment, nothing less of total destruction will be fine for her. No even a hint acknowledgement that speaking to me like this - especially in front of our two beautiful kids - was not ok. Well it did not happen for years, so why I am still hoping...

She told that because I am a narcissist - I either seek to push her sell the house or put her into the financial misery. So there is no way out for me - either i sacrifice it all or confirm her point of view that I am a narcissist.

I wrote to her calm email saying that I can not take responsibility of what she is saying to me and that it is very hurtful. Her response was saying "you are a monster, a bully, an abuser, you are a narcissist" and listed all the occasions that I have hurt her. And the truth is that she did not invent any of events - cheating, putting myself in front of her, unnecessary criticism, burying heavy issues. She mentioned that her therapist told that I have narcissistic tendencies (what kind of medical specialist issues judgement on third persons?!?).

Truth is that many of these occasions stemmed from my tendencies to put myself in front for any cost (thanks to therapy I was able to recognise these patterns); many of them stemmed from the fact that my learned behaviour in dealing with heavy topics was to bury things and move forward (instead of supporting and talking things out). And absolutely some of the occasions - without any excuses - was purely my bad judgement and lack of character.

Due to my actions i lost my marriage, family, house and even my beloved dog. And I accept all of this - I did it, it is my responsibility - and that is why I also work on myself. To be a better person for myself and my kids.

But from today onwards - I refuse to be screamed at, refuse to be called a human thrash, refuse to be spit at, refuse to be threatened by the police, refuse to be hit with my child in my hands. I refuse to be manipulated into blame. It has been going on for years and it is enough. I will not give away my fatherhood, I will not sacrifice that for no one.

Finally, after 6 months of IC - i mustered courage to mention this to my therapist.

[This message edited by Spaceman at 2:11 PM, Sunday, June 5th]

Yes, it sounds like it's well past time to communicate only through attorneys. Her lawyer may have more success convincing her that blackmail will result in a less generous settlement than you initially offered.

Communicate through attorneys. I am sure that her lawyer will have her best interest at the forefront and use everything at her disposal to ensure that your wife's interest are best served.

She now considers you an enemy and war has been chosen.

Im sure people will be along to demonize your wife....for a variety of reasons. And im sure you will feel somewhat validated.

All i think was it worth it? The awfulness, hurt, pain, etc? And as mentioned "you" have lost your marriage, family, etc...as if she didn't.

Infidelity... such a waste of so many things.

Prissy, I do not want to demonize her. Would like to do right by her.

She is a good person that i hurt terribly, there is no way around that. What i feel probably is just a small part of pain in comparison with her.

And whether it is worth it - it is just destruction of everything. So there is that.

I dont doubt it Spaceman...

Its just the shit sandwich. BS are expected to take the high road. Even through the pain. Through everything...and for those who do not they are exceptionally demonized. Think of the children...be fair...etc. do what your spouse didn't do.

Its all shitty. And its all a waste.

So much pain, sadness, life partners now enemies, the person you invited into your life and shared your body with is now the biggest weapon of your destruction.

Such a waste. Your story and her story... brings home how fucking sad, what a waste, and so much loss. Im sorry for you and her.

Only thing that I got out of that is getting screamed at in my own yard, in front of the kids and telling in front of the kids that I should look for my money "from prostitutes I visited". It is enough - no more contact, no more conversations, no more. Only contact related to kids.

She stated that either I give her fully the house or she will tell the kids that I want to take away their childhood. No buyout, no deferred payment, nothing less of total destruction will be fine for her.

Absolutely unacceptable. I'll tell you now, as a BS, that it is sometimes difficult to keep one's temper in line. But we are NOT animals with no self control. What stops her shitting on the lawn when she needs to go?... right, civility and decorum. It's not always easy for us to keep our tempers, but if it's a priority, we do it. And it's not just about being civilized. If it was, maybe we could say "fuck it, that's hard and I don't wanna". It's about NOT traumatizing our kids.

I think you do need to see an attorney at this time and I think you need to file, because... family court judges do not tolerate parental alienation. When it comes to the children, the court doesn't care about your history of adultery. All it cares about is what is BEST for those kids, and two loving parents who are nurturing and involved is what's best for kids. It doesn't matter that you don't live together with their mother any more. The court's not interested in that. What matters is your kid isn't being USED like some kind of emotional cudgel by either parent.

You need help, man. You can't do this on your own. You need an experienced attorney who can guide you through the process. Your STBXBW is already dating. I think there's a strong likelihood that she'll move on and eventually move someone in. A good settlement will also reflect both of your feelings as parents about when and how significant others are introduced to the children. It will settle out who has authority in terms of schools, churches, and medical care. Not to mention whether or not one of you can move away and how far you can go. So, there are LOTS of good reasons to go ahead and get this settled.

In terms of feeling bad about selling the house... her expectations on that are unrealistic. Yeah, I get it.. YOU wrecked the marriage. But as we discussed earlier, you still have to have the financial wherewithal to provide decent parenting on your own. Further, it's just NOT a good thing to get into a situation where the likelihood of future resentment is so high. It's not good for your future co-parenting relationship. Hell, having another man with your former wife and your children is going to be tough enough. It shouldn't also be in the dream house you built. It's just borrowing trouble in the form of hard feelings. Better to follow the law so there are no surprises and any emotional negativity can be blamed on a faceless system.

It's good that you're sharing more with your IC. Remember this though, you might as well not even be there if you're not talking about the things that make you uncomfortable. Discomfort is part of the process, yeah?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:56 PM, Sunday, June 5th]

No, but I think you need 50 posts before you can send one.

Sorry spaceman, I forgot about this rule

I think I might get a lot of attacks/criticism on what I'm about to say but I just want to put my 2cents out there.

And my ex has successfully planted the thought that I will be robbing our kids the childhood, if this house will have to be sold.

I totally agree that WS has robbed the kids of their childhood because his betrayal had destroyed the marriage so the kids will be growing up in a broken home with divorced parents. However, I do not agree with the notion that he robs the kids of their childhood if they sell their home. Millions of kids who have poor parents grow up in tiny appartements can still can have a great childhood, providing that they have loving parents in a peaceful home. The size of the house does not provide a great childhood or not, a loving home does. Furthermore, kids at ages 2 and 5 wouldn't know any difference living in a small vs a big house.

Your situation and story are a complicated one with you being a WH who cheated with prostitutes. IOW, you sought sex outside of your marriage. In retaliation or maybe it's just because it's who she is, she's having a full-blown affair with a coworker, having him sleep in your marital home and giving the love she once had for you to someone else. And lying about it and pretending she wasn't. At this point, she is behaving much like many of our cheating spouses did - lied to us for months, she got you to move out on false pretenses, and has allowed herself to resent you totally and has dropped any pretense of being civil to you.

I think I have that correct. In the meantime, you're continuing to be so confused by all this and self-reflecting and trying to figure out how the world works cuz your world has blown up and you're suddenly aware of your own vulnerabilities and that the world doesn't operate by any sort of rules or order. A lot of us fool ourselves for a long time thinking we're in charge of our lives and our outcomes until chaos takes over and shows us how powerless we actually are.

Anyway, here's the "advice" I have for you. First off, if you can find a way to quit with the non-stop thinking, it would help you a lot. I'm the same way and I get it but it's a never-ending loop that isn't helping you at all. A lot of people swear by exercise - really strenuous and exhausting. Maybe that would work for you? Secondly, if you're in IC, maybe shift the direction of your counseling toward accepting your new place in this world instead of spending all your time trying to figure out how you got there. Yeah, you made a big mistake. And you confessed and tried to make amends but perhaps you weren't really sorry and maybe you were just trying to win an argument with your wife and one thing led to another and well, maybe talk to your counselor about maybe having the need to be right about things. That might shed some light on your preoccupation with all of this. Thirdly, quit talking to your wife. About anything at all. No more talking. Text only about when the kids will be dropped off here or there or things like that. Nothing else. Nothing. Not a word about anything else. I'm telling you, you will regret anything you say to her. If she texts about anything else, ignore it. Fourthly, keep copies of everything she says in those texts. Fifthly, get an attorney. Get the best divorce attorney in your area and find out what a divorce would look like for you in terms of finances and the kids, etc. Discuss your situation and get his/her advice and follow it. They're the experts, don't second guess them. Strive for fair. A fair outcome. Let the courts decide what that is. Sixth, let you wife say whatever she wants. You can't control what she tells people so just let it go. And lastly, whatever you do, do not go out with anyone, don't go on a dating website, don't even go for coffee with a female friend. That's the last thing you need right now, for your own sake and also to protect yourself from any accusations going forward.

You did wrong but as others have said, you still need to be a whole person because you have children to raise. So keep working on yourself to be yourself, to be kind and humble and all those good things that you want your children to emulate. I also think you'd be a great volunteer somewhere and I think your talents could be put to great use and it would all benefit you as well.

Edited to add: I meant to also mention that you should go for a fair settlement. If later on down the road you wish you gave her more, you can do it then. But if later on down the road you realize you've been had, you can't change the orders of the court. I went for the moon and got it. But I put the excess in savings and I keep it there and if he's ever down and out and needs money, I'd give some back. I don't tell him that, of course, but that's what I'd do. I didn't take it to help myself but so that I could control it and not have the new wife live high off the hog on money we saved for our old age.

[This message edited by josiep at 1:33 AM, Friday, June 10th]