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Hi,

Have any of you sent your dog to a board and train program? If so, how did it go - did it help?

I have a 16-month-old neutered German Shepherd who is going to a 14-day program in early June. He's doing great on basic obedience and can do some really cool tricks, but he has issues with impulse control and when he gets amped up he tunes us right the f out. I also believe he has anxiety that is causing some of his unwanted behavior (shredding things, lunging at cars, certain noises set him off)...

Please share your experiences - good and bad.

Thanks!

Lalagirl, I have not tried the board and train method with our East German/Czech Shepherd, but your description of your young dog has me wondering if he too is a "working line" Shepherd, the type that are bred for careers in law enforcement, search & rescue and military? I understand those are often very "high drive" dogs, who are not easy to train. Ours came from such a litter. Her pedigree is heavy with line-bred Czech border patrol dogs. So we knew from the beginning we had better get professional help to start her off on the right foot. We brought her home at 10 weeks, and by 11-12 weeks we were taking one-on-one lessons with a Shepherd trainer. Didn't work out too well; the trainer remarked "she has puppy ADD. She isn't listening to you at all!"

We then completed 2 rounds of group puppy obedience training with her, she "passed," so she knows what commands mean, but she's just such a driven animal that she seems to choose when to obey, when to listen to us and when not to. All because she doesn't have much of an "Off Switch," and the breeder advised us this is what their dogs were bred to be like.

What helped us the most working with her "zoomies" was Cesar Milans dog training books at the local library, reading how to build a bond whereby the dog knows the family pack order and accepts that he or she isn't the pack Alpha! With GSDs, mostly they all want to be Alphas!

Eventually, we realized that part of our training "failure" was this puppy's earliest life experiences. She'd been the runt of a large litter (smallest of 12 puppies, and a mother dog only can nurse 10 pups at once). The breeder never told us this, but we figured this petite pup was likely bottle-fed and kept alive more by the breeder than by her own mother. It made her a sweet-natured dog, which is why I chose her out of the litter, yet she may have missed out on some important discipline from her dog Mom. Our efforts to establish our family pack order may have been hindered by her not having heard enough growls from her own mother, setting her some limits!

This was nicely described by the monks of New Skete in a book that is full of training advice and insights into the growth and development of these amazing dogs.

Good luck with your guy! I'm sure he's a cool canine.

[This message edited by Superesse at 3:43 PM, Wednesday, May 18th]

East German/Czech Shepherd,

That's my boy!

Going by everything you posted, I'm starting to wonder if they are from the same litter, except I believe there were 9 or 10, not 12, in this litter.

My boy was born 1/20/21. Solid black working line E. German/Czech Shepherd with papers that trace back to great-grandparents.

I think a lot of his anxiety was because he was separated from mom too soon. Breeder said he was "ready to go home" at 6 weeks, 3 days. I had a very uneasy feeling about it, but felt like we had no choice or he would sell him to someone else and all the others were going home. We've never done anything to torment him with what triggers his behavior.

He's so smart, too smart for OUR own good, lol.

He's been in daycare 2 days a week since he was 20 weeks old. Loved it, until he didn't (one year-ish) - he began showing dominant aggression (lunging, barking) toward his friends.

He had one-on-one puppy training as well - he did great!

What helped us the most working with her "zoomies" was Cesar Milans dog training books at the local library, reading how to build a bond whereby the dog knows the family pack order and accepts that he or she isn't the pack Alpha! With GSDs, mostly they all want to be Alphas!

I need to check these out. He definitely gets alpha on us (I'm always on hubby about treating him too much like a human ). We also have 2 of our grandkids living with us (ages 5 and 10) - he LOVES them to bits but likes to be the boss of play (the girls are great about reigning him in but he's a big boy - 90 pounds).

This was nicely described by the monks of New Skete in a book that is full of training advice and insights into the growth and development of these amazing dogs.

Do you recall the name of the book? I'd love to check this out as well!

Superesse, thank you so much for taking the time to provide such valuable awesome advice and info; much appreciated! (((HUGS)))

The Monks of New Skete are the bomb! I believe one is "The Art of Raising a Puppy" and the other is "How To Be Your Dog's Best Friend." Lots of great insight into canine behaviors and drivers of the same. They actually breed GSDs, so their insight would be particularly applicable to you.

My experience with high-drive dogs (Chesapeake Bay Retrievers) is that they do best when their owner is highly involved with their training and takes a "train the trainer" approach in working with the dog. Of course, if you are not "alpha" with the dog, they're not going to take to training as effectively. I would immediately start NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free). It's a non-confrontational way to teach a dog that you are alpha in ways that they understand. There's a lot of good information on NILIF online. However, EVERYONE in the family must participate in NILIF or it will not work.

DAILY obedience is a must. Every walk, every human interaction becomes a learning opportunity. I would school my Chessie on walks, insisting on things like the conditioned sit. Training him to look to me for guidance was key.

Good luck--I w

Thank you, Cat!

There are lots of beautiful Chessies 'round here (I live on the Chesapeake Bay).

I will definitely check out NILIF.

The board and train that my boy is going to also "trains the parents" and they offer a myriad of other training opportunities to keep him (and us) sharp (agility, nosework, advanced obedience, etc). I'm looking forward to getting the foundation going and building forever (always be training).

We definitely train daily - most days he's great, but when he's amped up, he's damned near impossible. I am beginning to think that we're going to have to pull him from daycare (2 days a week when I go to the office) and crate him because since he's been a year old, he gets overstimulated there - starts going batshit crazy barking as soon as we walk in the lobby and there's another dog there. The staff has to let him calm down in a separate part away from the others - which I think is making it worse. He wants to play, but he's just so damn excited he loses his marbles.

I think he will do well - the trainer has over 30 years of experience and I've read/heard nothing but good things about him...but I've never talked to anyone personally who did board and train.

Wow, Lalagirl has a relative of my girl! I'd like to PM you about their pedigrees if you'd like. But our girl is now 8 1/2 years old, her breeder here in Virginia is passionate about giving her pups a good start in life - maybe too good, ha - but I know she'd never have let a dog go at such a tender age. We have kept in touch with her over the years and she hasn't changed that policy.

Despite all the misery with our Little Miss Bits (as in 'shred things to bits'....) I still admire the line - I think we just picked a lemon! She's barely 60 lbs. and people always ask if she is a juvenile. She stopped maturing when she went into her first heat cycle and it was all screwed up, we had to stop dog training and 100 days later, she had lost weight and needed a laparoscopic ooectomy one side. Possible inbreeding issue, we suspect. Anyway no puppies from her, she is now spayed after 4 years of misery. I will not get another female of this line, that is for sure.

But back to yours, the monks describe the shy stage returning around a year of age or so (sorry I haven't read that book since we needed it) so sounds like he is just uncertain about his place in the world. Our first trainer also stressed the need for us to be the dog's trainer. These dogs don't always have the highest desire to please, to begin with.

So that said, I'm not sure how boarding-training him will ultimately work out for your family. And I'd want to see any such trainer in action with other dogs, as well. Our trainer wanted to go to a prong metal choke chain almost immediately when she was 11 weeks old?! OMG, that didn't seem right. That's why we quit her, and enrolled in a group puppy training class. Same story about teaching the pup to "watch me!" Ha, my H doesn't make eye contact well to begin with, and kept forgetting to praise her when he was leash walking her. He's so big and tall and she was so way down there, that he kept forgetting to look at the little thing. So we may have messed her up some, too.

I did show her at an AKC puppy show, and she behaved mostly, but broke gait and lept up out of excitement while we were supposed to be walking; she got a 3rd place ribbon (she was one of 3 in her class, ahem...) But basically I had to abandon my goals to train her for any serious work, due to her hormone issues, and accept her as she is. Kinda like every relationship....

I have a 110 lb Cane Corso. She’s the sweetest thing ever. To us. She’s almost 7 now, got her when she was about 4 months old, and she has always, always had issues. Not sure if it was breeding, or poor treatment in early days. Regular vet visits now involve sedation. She can’t be walked regularly because she’s fear aggressive at everyone, and sometimes even cars when she realizes there’s people in them. We did a lot of time with a one-on-one trainer who specializes in problem dogs, and a few years ago did a board-and-train program.

The best part to the board and train place is that they also specialize in problem dogs, and they absolutely love her. They recognize her issues and are willing to accommodate her with special treatment, like hanging out one-on-one in an office all day. She behaves better for them without me around (she’s excessively protective of me, something none of us has been able to break), and their view after working with her is, “some dogs are just like that – you can either keep her stoned every day, or just learn to work around her issues the best you can, and give her the best life she can have, even if it’s not a “normal” dog life.” So we do lots of ball and training stuff in our own yard, and every few months, she gets to have a vacation at the boarding place. And we keep in the backs of our minds that as she ages, if she starts showing any confusion or dementia, we may be looking at putting her down early because she’s dangerous. But we love her, treat her the best we can, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

I wish you the best of luck – no matter what, it’s going to be work!

Yes. We have a black and tan coonhound. She is very dominant and dog reactive. Smart and stubborn also which is a bad combination. It was a week and around $1500. It did wonders. I actually have more control over her than the submissive other dog on walks.

He's doing great on basic obedience and can do some really cool tricks, but he has issues with impulse control and when he gets amped up he tunes us right the f out.

Pay attention when they discuss his training with you. They can train the dog, but you have to learn how to be in control and he has to see you as the leader. His focus should be on you not the cars or noises. My wife does most of the walking and she didn't go to the owner training part so she has less control over Molly. She also excuses a lot of the behavior with she's a dog she should bark and chase X.

[This message edited by grubs at 7:42 PM, Wednesday, May 18th]

Superesse:

Little Miss Bits (as in 'shred things to bits'....)

We just call ours "The German Shredder"

You are more than welcome to PM me! I'll need to pull "Mr. P's" AKC paperwork to get his lineage.

I'm sorry your girl had such a hard start; sounds like she's doing great now! Maybe it's best that she only hit 65 pounds; you ought to see my boy walking me when he wants a duck or squirrel...

These dogs don't always have the highest desire to please, to begin with.

This is true - seems to be all about him. Oh great, I have a narcissist GSD

Ha, my H doesn't make eye contact well to begin with, and kept forgetting to praise her when he was leash walking her. He's so big and tall and she was so way down there, that he kept forgetting to look at the little thing. So we may have messed her up some, too.

Yeah, that's one of the biggest hurdles - getting him to focus on me on our walks so he will realize that my H and I are the folks he needs to be paying attention to. We do use a Hermsprenger prong collar, but we were trained on how to use it with him and it does work pretty well - I can barely handle him with a flat collar.

Chewedmeup:

I have a 110 lb Cane Corso.

That's a big girl!

Regular vet visits now involve sedation.

I can relate. My boy needs full sedation for nail trims at the vet. Fortunately he's pretty good at the vet's office for other things. I can't take him to a groomer because even sedated with pills, still takes 3 techs to hold him down.

"some dogs are just like that – you can either keep her stoned every day, or just learn to work around her issues the best you can, and give her the best life she can have, even if it’s not a "normal" dog life."

That's actually a very good way of putting it.

My boy definitely has some issues with reactivity/anxiety, but not separation anxiety - he's great in his crate - I just didn't want to leave him in there for 6-7 hours a day. But I've been told he may be more content than in a daycare with a bunch of other dogs. He LOVES people - it's other dogs that trigger him. Maybe something happened to him in daycare? At any rate, we'll make that decision post his board and train.

Y'all are great - I so appreciate your feedback and sharing your experiences!

Hi Grubs,

Pay attention when they discuss his training with you. They can train the dog, but you have to learn how to be in control and he has to see you as the leader. His focus should be on you not the cars or noises. My wife does most of the walking and she didn't go to the owner training part so she has less control over Molly. She also excuses a lot of the behavior with she's a dog she should bark and chase X.

Oh hubs and I will both be there when we pick him up. There are also three follow-up training sessions - one the very next day, then two more 2 weeks apart.

Yeah, it will be great to have his focus on us, not cars, noises, etc.

No excuses from us - I'm paying $2k (plus the cost of an eCollar if needed) for my boy's board & train - plus we plan on expanding on his training with other classes to keep him sharp and busy.

Oh hubs and I will both be there when we pick him up. There are also three follow-up training sessions - one the very next day, then two more 2 weeks apart.

I have to admit we didn't do as much followup as recommended. We didn't want a perfect dog, just need to tools to be able to control her impulses. The difference was stunning. The stuff we needed stuck even without the followup.

The difference was stunning. The stuff we needed stuck even without the followup.

That's awesome! Can you elaborate on the "stuff"?

For one she doesn't pull while walking. At all.
The most important is even when she reacts to another dog, she'll stay in the sit I always put her in when another dog is approaching. That was important as the issue that drove us to boarding training was molly would react and start barking. Champ, the submissive one, would think it was play time so he'd poke her in the side of the head, and that would totally send her over the edge. If we had follwed up and kept her within her boundaries, I beleive that we could have killed the reaction all together. It's kind of comical to see her barking her ass off while sitting, but I don't think she knows the other dogs laugh at her for doing it.
I can also redirect her. Like last weekend unbeknown to us she brought a adolescent bunny in from the back yard into the laundry room and was playing with it. Didn't notice until the bunny started squeaking as she chased it around the room. I was able to command her to leave it and get her out of the the room. That allowed me to catch the bunny and get it back outside somewhat unharmed. Before it could be frightening to take something away from her that she wanted.
She is by far the most dominate dog, I've ever had. And that's saying something because I'm old and I've always had 2-4 dogs.

I just want to pop in and thank each one of you from the bottom of my heart for what you're doing. A large percentage of people with these wonderful but challenging dogs just drop them off at animal shelters and thats...fun...for those of us who work in dog rescue. A terrified untrained energetic GSD is not it. On the other hand, thanks to those people I've learned a lot about training dogs for the sake of saving my own skin, lol. Seriously, you're all amazing.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 11:46 PM, Thursday, May 19th]

@grubs, that's awesome! This is exactly what we're dealing with and we hope for the same results.

I just want to pop in and thank each one of you from the bottom of my heart for what you're doing. A large percentage of people with these wonderful but challenging dogs just drop them off at animal shelters and thats...fun...for those of us who work in dog rescue. A terrified untrained energetic GSD is not it. On the other hand, thanks to those people I've learned a lot about training dogs for the sake of saving my own skin, lol. Seriously, you're all amazing.

@dee - Thank you for your kind words. I know all too well about these poor "bad" dogs that are dumped like trash, as well as many dogs that were adopted during the pandemic. They lost their usefulness and don't even know why. .

We did extensive research before we got him (even though we've had a GSD in the past and my FIL raised many), and made a promise that no matter what, we would never abandon him. Gosh, just imagining him at board & train is making me sad cause I know he'll be sad at night , but he'll be very active during the day learning and having fun. I really think that his training (and ours) will make him even happier because there's obvi a communication breakdown that we're not "getting."

There is a wonderful place (it's on FB) called "Misfit Shepherds" - a man and his wife run a GSD rehab for neglected, abandoned and abused GSDs, then they are adopted out to wonderful homes. They are angels on Earth. You should check them out - they are always willing to help whenever they can.

[This message edited by Lalagirl at 12:26 PM, Friday, May 20th]

Dee, thank you so much. I often feel like a failure because I haven’t been able to “fix” her and make her good for polite company, or for the looks some have given me because she’s got a prong or an ecollar on. So I appreciate when people understand how difficult some of these dogs can be, even with the best of training.

As for crating, thankfully I started that right off the bat, and my girl is quite content to snooze the day away in her crate while I’m at work, as well as overnight. She has a big antler in there to gnaw on if she’s awake and bored, but mostly sleeps. She prefers the crate to the point that when we’ve offered to let her come up on the bed, or even just leave her door open to let her come and go, it makes her too nervous and we end up locking the door for her anyway! That said, she most definitely does not like being in there when I’m home – she prefers to be right alongside me. Of course, she’s only good for about 20 minutes of vigorous activity before she needs a snooze, preferably on the couch with me. I think she may be a rug.

Her anxiety breaks through everything we’ve tried, including medication, and she blocks out everything and everyone but what she’s focused on when it kicks in, but the board and train was definitely great for reinforcing the things we’d already started with her (“place” is the most useful thing, with this one), and every time we take her back for regular boarding, they practice with her more, which is always helpful. And I think having someone else that’s not family reinforce these things actually helps a lot with retention – almost as if “it’s not just mom yelling at me” helps them understand these things are always expected.

@ChewedMeUp, you are SO not a failure - you're being an awesome doggo mamma!

I get the looks as well with the prong collar (and he will likely have an eCollar soon after board & train). I don't care. It's not cruel at all - what is cruel is struggling with a flat collar to the point where they're choking themselves out and you have no control whatsoever. I tried the prong on my own skin (neck, thighs) and it doesn't hurt at all. People who are misinformed, uneducated, untrained owners, or folks who use poor quality prong/eCollars are the reason for their bad rap.

I get the looks as well with the prong collar (and he will likely have an eCollar soon after board & train). I don't care. It's not cruel at all - what is cruel is struggling with a flat collar to the point where they're choking themselves out and you have no control whatsoever.

We get that look when we board them at the vet or the kennel and we are using just normal chain collars. We started with the harnesses but that just encouraged Molly to control the walking. The trainer gave us the collar we use for Molly.
I won't lie. It was a close call for Molly. I had never even considered returning one before, but then again I've never had a dog scare me as much as she has at times. We picked her out the week after christmas and she and her brother had been returned once already. I think they were found at 4 weeks without the mother. Learned my lesson before we got Champ. No more puppies. A friend fosters for the large local rescue (2300+ adoptions last year) which her dad is in charge. She has several dogs herself so her fosters tend more on the mild scale and champ was one of hers and was a year old when we adopted him.

Champ

Memories! I had a dog named Champ when I was a kid; he was a GSD/Chow Chow mix.

Dee, thank you so much. I often feel like a failure because I haven’t been able to "fix" her and make her good for polite company, or for the looks some have given me because she’s got a prong or an ecollar on. So I appreciate when people understand how difficult some of these dogs can be, even with the best of training.

I get it. I completely do. I have a mini-Aussie with an anxiety disorder and though he is an absolute genius and listens like no other dog at home, there's no controlling him when the anxiety hits and he has a full-blown panic attack. That's mental illness, not lack of training. Thanks to my experience with him, I wound up taking in other smaller dogs with aggression/anxiety issues that no one wants to deal with. I know dogs, I'm good with dogs, and yet 4 of my 6 dogs are hot messes who just aren't going to become polite company dogs. You aren't failing your dog. You're her hero, I promise you that. It's a lot easier to take them to a shelter and let her become someone else's problem. Instead you really see her and love her and you're working with her. You are all amazing for doing that.

There is a wonderful place (it's on FB) called "Misfit Shepherds" - a man and his wife run a GSD rehab for neglected, abandoned and abused GSDs, then they are adopted out to wonderful homes. They are angels on Earth. You should check them out - they are always willing to help whenever they can.

That is fantastic. They really are great dogs. So smart and intuitive and they really do want to be your partner. Some of them just take a lot of extra work and patience.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 9:56 PM, Friday, May 20th]