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Hi everyone. It has been a while since I have been on here. Hope everyone is doing well

I needed some help on navigating my thoughts for a co-parenting therapy session I have tonight with my X. First, I want to clarify that the reason I agreed to even do co-parenting therapy with him was because of my children. Our 14 year old daughter is not in a good place at all and I will always do whatever I can to try and help my kids. For those that have followed my story, you know that our daughter barely has a relationship with her dad and he continues to make things difficult for her to want one. Throughout the hell he put us through, he never once focused on repairing his relationship with our child and that is what hurts her the most. He has turned his focus on his career and the OW, but even after hurting her so much, he never focused on her. I can't minimize that and this is what we are discussing in therapy. Since our daughter does not want to enter any sessions with her dad, I am trying, with the help of our therapist, to attempt to explain why our daughter is where she is with him. (This will only be our 4th session) Currently, our MSA states that he gets no overnights with the children until "their therapist feels it is the right time and we agree to do family therapy as recommended by the therapists." Our daughter's therapist, which she was with for 2 years, recently terminated her services because she felt uncomfortable with my X's reaction to our child not wanting a relationship with him. My X was insisting on "family sessions" because he felt out of the loop with things. Meanwhile, he spent years doing his own thing and not really reaching out for updates. After our daughter recently calling him "the worst dad in the world", he flipped and immediately began playing the victim. As always, he blames everyone else, including the therapist and became a bit aggressive with his delivery. It was our fault he knew nothing about his child and it was our fault she doesn't want a relationship with him. Which obviously is not the case at all. We have both always encouraged a relationship between them, but we want it to be a healthy relationship. I had a long conversation with the therapist and told her that I did not want her to ever feel uncomfortable. She felt that she could no longer help and recommended a few therapists with more resources. I found her another therapist and she has had a few sessions with her. She really likes her and thinks she is a good fit for her. She feels "safe" and the therapist keeps assuring her that she is there for HER, not for me or for her dad.

Currently, our daughter spends no time with him and our 10 year old son spends 2-3 hours every Wednesday night with him. He has not introduced the OW to either of them and our son recently voiced that he is uncomfortable and does not want to be around her. Long story short, our son did not know much of what had taken place and recently found out in an age-appropriate way what daddy did. He found out after daddy decided to randomly take him to his new house he purchased with the OW and act like he purchased it with someone who is "just a girlfriend." He never told me he was taking him nor did I even know he had purchased this new home. (Realistically, he doesn't have to tell me that he purchased a new place, etc.) However, he should have told me he was taking our son there at the very least. He knows our circumstances and how upset our daughter would potential be by this news. Our son walked into our home like a dear in headlights not really knowing how to feel. He was caught off guard and so was I. Honestly, I went into panic mode when he walked in and told me. My mind immediately went to my daughter and how she was going to react. I was given no time to prepare our children for this huge news. Our son, innocently of course, told his sister. Told her that "daddy bought a really big house with his new girlfriend" "He told me he is going to buy furniture for my room there and you will also have a room." Our daughter FLIPPED. She was HYSTERICAL. I stood there in complete shock. I texted him back and forth and he called me. I voiced my concerns, but of course, he didn't see the wrong in what he did. That was until our daughter texted him and told him that she "was done with him and he was the worst dad in the world.". She basically told him that he proved where his priorities are and that she deserves a dad that cares enough to put her first. It hurt me SO bad I can't even describe it. To see my child hysterical and say that her dad just never cared about what he did to her was hard. She said that "he knows how she feels about the OW and if he wants a relationship with her so bad, why would he buy a house with someone she will never be comfortable around?" "Why wouldn't he buy something on his own so she can feel comfortable going to when they were in a better place?" He knew she would never go to this new house, so him telling her brother that he will have a room there for her is "just stupid." It was a really rough few weeks following this. She ended up telling her younger brother what daddy did. She was careful on how she told him and apologized afterwards, but she said she was just tired of her dad not being truthful to anyone. She was tired of hearing her brother come home and say "why don't you come out with daddy" "you are hurting his feelings", etc. In all honesty, she was just tired of watching her dad play the victim with everyone while he continues to hurt us.

So after this, he asked me to begin co-parenting therapy. During our first session, he told our therapist "I want my kids to treat me the way they treat their mother" He said that "I have a lot of influence on our daughter and needs my support" Over the last few sessions, not much progress has been made. He still feels entitled to continue to make decisions that hurt others with no consequences. He says that he knows our daughter needs to want a relationship with him in order for them to have one, but continues to put it on our child. He takes little accountability for the outcome and that is why I feel that things may never change. Our daughter is done giving him chances. For her, it is all or nothing at this point. From her perspective, I think she was just wanting to feel important enough to her dad for him to stop prioritizing his career and the OW and really focus on them for a period of time. I told him that I will always support our children having healthy relationship with him, but our child's mental health has been compromised because of what took place for years, and that is something that I need to take into account.

During our last session, I became frustrated. I was trying to explain that my child has reasons for feeling the way she does and her feelings were caused by her dad continuously doing things. Our therapist said that "it was my perspective that his feelings were hurting my child" I flipped.....I said to both of them "how is it MY perspective if our child kept telling him he was hurting her? She wrote him letters, had conversations with him, text messages, over and over again for YEARS.....and he would just keep doing things." They both sat there in silence. Our therapist turns to me X and says "can you understand how what you did could now affect your child wanting a relationship with you?" He responded "Well, now that she is explaining it, I can see how she is upset" We both agreed that at this point, these sessions will not help much. He wants my child to want a relationship with him but she doesn't. He doesn't go to therapy himself and puts the outcome of everything on my shoulder's and our child's. So, we decided we will try one more session to see how we will move forward as parents. Tonight, I will be given the opportunity to speak, uninterrupted, on how this has affected me as a mom and what I now expect from him. At this point, I want him to respect our children and what they want. If they don't want to be part of the new selfish life he created, that is THEIR CHOICE. I want my kids to be happy. I want our daughter to be able to move on without him guilting her into feeling like she is a horrible person for giving up on him after so much hurt he has caused her. He taught us all how to live without depending on him. He now does not get to demand things when he hasn't been around consistently for years. He was around only on his terms and at his convenience. That in my eyes is not being a father. Being a parent is NOT about convenience. He wasn't there for us when we needed him and now that he has this new house and feels more "settled", he wants us all to all "meet him" where he is. (Meanwhile, he still does things like not showing up to any of our son's soccer games after TWO years.) We have moved on and can't go back to where he is. We can't be forced to relive things that we have worked hard to heal from. My child wants to MOVE ON and she has told him a million times, she can't move on with him if the OW is in his life. Now with this new house, she doesn't see a way to move past this. I never want to speak for my child or make decisions for her, but as a mother, I have the right to feel the need to protect t her after everything that has taken place. I can't have her go back to locking herself in her room for days and crying or being depressed for weeks on end or failing every class in school. The reality is, the actions of my X and the OW have drastically affected my child and they both need to come to terms with that. They can't now decide to rewrite their relationship and how it started or how much they hurt us all. Screw that. I am just over all this self-entitlement. Their "happiness" is NOT MORE IMPORTANT than my children's or mine and it certainly is not more important than our peace.

I want to walk in tonight and just go into detail with some things he did so the therapist can understand more. I just want to say them and ask what is now expected of us. We are only human. My children did not deserve to question their worth with their own father. I want to ask him to try and understand that we all deserve happiness and our happiness may just not look like his. He could have done so much differently, but he choose to continue seeking his own "happiness" at the expense of his family. That is not ok and never will be. It may be too late for our child, but that is a decision only she can make. I will continue communicating with him about the kids. Our son will do what he feels comfortable with and we will support him along the way. But I can't continue feeling punished for always putting our kids first and him choosing not to. I just feel like I have put myself to the side for so long to help our kids heal and pick up the pieces alone and that was unfair. Sorry.....I may just be rambling on. I just need reassurance that I am not going crazy here for just wanting some peace and not feel obligated in helping my X when he doesn't seem to want to help himself.

[This message edited by Mari104 at 6:26 PM, Tuesday, December 20th]

You're are not responsible for his relationship with your children. Obviously you're willing to let them visit, you aren't getting mad when your son comes back talking about his visit, you're not bad mouthing him. That's the extent of your responsibility.

It is up to your ex to repair the damage he has done to his relationship with your daughter. If he isn't willing to do so, then it's out of your hands. Your daughter has told him what she needs and he has ignored her this entire time.

You are not wrong. You are not obligated to do anything right now. If he makes changes and starts really trying, then I would suggest you to encourage her to try a short visit to start. However, you are miles away from that.

[This message edited by BeingNaive at 6:47 PM, Tuesday, December 20th]

BeingNaive, thank you for your response. You are absolutely correct. Our daughter has voiced what she needs from her dad so many times for so many years. It is unfair that this is where things have ended up, but I can't change him or the decisions he has made. I was really hurt as a wife for everything he put me through, but honestly, what I am experiencing as a mom is worse. I don't think any parent should ever have to question where the other parent's priority lies. It should ALWAYS be with your children. That is the commitment you make when you choose to have children. I just think my kid is going to never fully recover from this and that makes me SO angry at my X, as well as the OW for both being so selfish.

[This message edited by Mari104 at 8:19 PM, Tuesday, December 20th]

I am your daughter. My dad was a self-centered narcissist that 'expected' me to be/do/say what he wanted, with no regard to who I actually am as a person or to what I needed from him. He ignored my pleas for change my whole life too. He was mentally and emotionally abusive to me.

I finally said 'when' in my mid 20's and have had no relationship with him for 15+ years. Has it sucked? Yeah. Do I regret that decision? Hell no I don't. If it was a boyfriend or husband that treated me like he did no one would say I was wrong, but believe me I have caught flak over the years for making that choice 'because he's my dad'. Bullshit. He was not good for my mental and emotional well-being. He was toxic to me and hyper critical of every single thing about me that he deemed 'unacceptable' (which was pretty much everything). I couldn't grow in that relationship nor was it good for me and when you hit that point it's time to bail IMHO, whether it's a friend, a spouse, or a parent doesn't matter.

TL;DR - as hard as it is (and it IS), I commend your daughter for knowing herself and her worth well enough to stand up for the treatment she deserves and to not accept less. That's HUGE. And if her dad won't get on board? That's on him, not on her.

EllieKMAS, I am so so sorry that you went through all of that with your dad. My heart hurts for you. I never imagined my child would be experiencing this and as a mother, I am torn in so many ways. I know it is not my responsibility to fix their relationship. It is my X husband's. However, I never want my child to carry the hurt that I have experienced as a wife. That is my burden to carry. It is just becoming increasingly more difficult for me to hide the pain I am feeling as a mom.

She also was body shamed by her father. He told her she was one of the reason's he left (on more than one occasion). Told her that we were all "too much for him and stressed him out too much". Meanwhile, he had all the time and energy for his job and his mistress. When she has tried to express her feelings to him, she has been called "a spoiled brat", "undeserving" "disrespectful", she was spanked, yelled at, etc. He actually told her that "he hopes she doesn't regret the way she is treating him when he dies one day because regret will kill you." He keeps bringing up the fact that "he refuses to be disrespected by his children." How his "word no longer matters to any of us and we just care about the child support and alimony he pays." But he doesn't see how disrespectful he has been and as a result, his children no longer respect him. He doesn't see that he spent years making promises and breaking them. His actions have not matched his words for years. He really is the typical narcissist, and it is becoming so difficult to co-parent with him.

[This message edited by Mari104 at 9:06 PM, Tuesday, December 20th]

Yeah it sucked, but my experiences shaped me and tooting my horn, but I'm pretty freakin awesome

You tell your daughter I say bravo to her for not being afraid to make hard choices that are best for her - took me into my FORTIES to learn that! She's way ahead of the curve.

And the body shaming? NAH to that. That was the blow that killed pete with me and my dad too - I had lost 120 pounds and on the last day I ever saw him (at a family function) he "jokingly" said about me to everyone that 'it's too bad she lost all this weight cus now you can't hear her coming when she walks anymore'. Who the fuck does that? That's how he was - always making jokes, and they were always at someone else's expense (usually mine). That plus a million other reasons is why choosing to end that relationship was the best choice for me.

They just don't get it. They aren't "owed" respect if they are completely unable to give respect. My dad was (and still is) the. same. damn. way. I do not miss it at all.

“He actually told her that "he hopes she doesn't regret the way she is treating him when he dies one day because regret will kill you." mad He keeps bringing up the fact that "he refuses to be disrespected by his children." How his "word no longer matters to any of us and we just care about the child support and alimony he pays." But he doesn't see how disrespectful he has been and as a result, his children no longer respect him. He doesn't see that he spent years making promises and breaking them. His actions have not matched his words for years. He really is the typical narcissist, and it is becoming so difficult to co-parent with him.”

This^^^^^^! I could be your son. I grew up with toxic, abusive, selfish, womanizing father just like your EX. I can tell you from my experience that he will never change. He is incapable of coparenting. He is incapable of being a good father. Everything has to be about him, the children are just props to make him look good. He is incapable of introspection or empathy for his children’s pain due to his horrible, selfish actions. That would mean (gasp) he would have to own his own shit. He will never accept responsibility.

I understand the very personal pain your children feel when he says and does deliberately hurtful things. BTDT. But what will help them is to come to accept that their father is just not a good person. Not someone worthy of them. It’s immensely painful realization, but very freeing in a way. It’s okay to ignore him and not want to be around him. Don’t take his words seriously. He’s a selfish jerk and I don’t need that toxic crap in my life. He has made his own bed to live out his life without his children. He will lie in it.

You're are not responsible for his relationship with your children.

100% this.

For the sake of an argument, let's replace your cheating, narcissistic ex with an alcoholic ex for a moment. I just think that it's a little easier because it's less emotional. You like your alcoholic ex... he's a great guy when sober but he was a terrible husband so you divorced him but you wish him well.

How would you respond then?

You don't want to enable his drinking and encourage your children to be with him when he's drunk. Yet, you love your children so you want them to have a good relationship with their father too.

So, you need to teach your children how to appropriately set boundaries for themselves and encourage them to do so. Then, you simply need to support your children in whatever they decide.

Now, remember that your ex is a cheating SOB, not a drunk SOB. And you should behave the same way. And at therapy, you need to focus on what you do as a co-parent and you can almost entirely ignore situation as a parent. He is not your monkey, not your circus.

I say all of this... because I think that you are doing pretty great already. If you re-read what I wrote, that's pretty much what you are doing. So, increase your self-confidence but otherwise continue to be a great mom!