SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am writing for the first time yet have read on and off for years. (Almost 5) I initially arrived here broken beyond comprehension in desperate need of help. I searched many sites. Some members here definitely helped, but I feared telling my story because many members were beyond hurtful. I now know they were acting from their intense pain yet I was not in a head space to "take what I need and leave the rest". The "rest" that I didn’t subscribe to still hurt like a bitch. So, I backed off in search of more compassionate places to read.

That being said, I vowed to myself to report how my story turned out when I felt I was healed. I felt I owed it to the ones here who did help me and to push back on some of the absolutes so many hurting spouses spew. I don’t believe them to be helpful to anyone, ever. The statements I am referring to are "your marriage is a sham", "your spouse is not remorseful he is sorry he was caught", "your spouse is still cheating, he’s just underground now", "reconciliation is a mythical unicorn"… etc. Those statements were/are people simply pushing their truths, their reality, and their mindset on to others and it’s not helpful. Ever.I don’t mind these statements if they are preceded with "in my experience " or "me belief is…", but blanket Statements about my marriage or anyone other random internet stranger is ridiculous.

So, I am here to push back on some of those absolute statements. Before I do, I want to make clear I acknowledge they are many people’s truths in their situation, but not mine. Let me start with the one that bothered me the most as I was going through hell (user name) "your marriage was a sham or a lie". Nope, not my truth. My marriage was more than just fidelity. It was built on shared dreams and goals. Some goals we have achieved and many we still work for, even during cheating years we still worked as a team. We had wonderful now adult kids. We traveled. W e laughed. We loved. I worked hard to get all my memories back. My husband always said they were real "yes, I was being a cowardly, cheating asshole, for a longtime but it was all in a box and when I walked away from it each time she meant nothing. My family was always my priority". Now, is this an excuse to let him off ? Hell no. And did his actions match his words? Yes, and no. He was financially very faithful. Always worked multiple jobs and brought all the money home for me to not have to work or want for anything as I raised kids. I had a house cleaner and rarely cooked. (He’d often bring dinner home). He never told me no. He did his own laundry. When D day came about, the 180 was easy because he never had any demands or expectations on me to begin with short of caring for the kids. Throughout the cheating years we enjoyed each other’s company and shared love. The fact that he was also cheating does not change that. Yes, he had a horrible lie he was hiding, but that’s not all our marriage was. Therefore, my marriage was real and not a sham. He was behaving unbelievably awful, behind my back, but that does not negate our times together. If he had secretly been doing drugs for years would I think my marriage as a sham because he has a secret life? Nope. I’d just be hurt and pissed. For me, marriage is much more than undying love and fidelity and just because one is absent the marriage is still real. At least my marriage is.

Another absolute I hated was "your spouse is still hiding truths". Maybe, but I have no reason to think so. He answered all my questions as painful as they were.

And another "your husband can’t walk away after all those years without missing her"… well, if he didn’t he deserves an academy award for acting as he dropped her cold and callously. I’d have felt sorry for her if she didn’t deserve it. 🤷‍♀️😂 in fact, when I suspected he was cheating and asked, he admitted and was relieved if was over. She of course thought it was their "time". He was relieved to be done. I asked a therapist how he could spend years f’ing another and walk away and feel nothing? And could he do that to me too? Apparently it’s not that unusual. I am not making excuses or minimizing the horror show my husband inflicted on me. This is just my story. He knew his affair was just an escape and it was not real. Just a bunch of nonsense perpetrated by two mentally weak, unhealthy, and broken people. Hurt people hurt people. It truly had nothing to do with me. I was just the innocent bystander sucker punched.

That brings this too long of a post to my final "truth". My husband’s infidelity was not abuse. He never meant to hurt me. Never wanted to hurt me. I think abuse needs intent. For me, it does. I know many of you feel that your betrayal was abuse and I respect "your truth". It’s just not mine so I cringe when I see people insisting their truth is universal. I think it comes from a place of pain and extreme self doubt in one’s decisions. They need others to believe like they do. I don’t need others to feel like I do to be confident is my choices, but if offering my perspective helps anyone, I’ll tell my truths.

In a nutshell, almost 5 years out I am happy. My marriage survived. It is different. It would have been different with or without cheating as humans grow and change. Is it better because he cheated? Hell no! Is it better because he finally worked to heal his demons? Yep. Would it have happened otherwise? I don’t know, but doubt it. For me, staying was the right choice. There is residual pain and likely always will be. But, at my age, everyone has scars and aches. This is just one of mine. But, this marriage has also provided me a rich life full of family and unbelievable blessings. Those mattered to me more than the idea of divorce and the hope of finding a new love. That was never a priority to me. My dreams were always an intact family and happy kids. I still have those. My priorities may be different than others, but we get to decide our own life. This is mine and it’s wonderful. I’ll end this finally by saying I believe I will be married until one of us dies. However, if we do ever split, it won’t be because of his affair. That’s over and we’ve healed. I wish all of you newbies healing and an outcome you hope for. Whatever that is LIVE YOUR LIFE and TRUTHS.

Congratulations on making it through your journey.
It's nice to hear stories of those who made it.
Thank you for sharing.

I applaud your journey and am so very happy for you that you are in a good place. I wish you many more years of recovery and happiness.

However, the one thing I need to disagree on is this: Cheating is abuse. You say abuse needs intent. Well..a WS's "intent" is to lie and withhold extremely critical information from their partner, which robs their BS of their agency and their ability to make informed decisions within their relationship.

If your WS had sex with someone else and then had sex with you, did you consent to that? Did you consent to the risk of STI's and STD's?

If you had an inkling that your WS may be hiding something (the A) and then they gaslight you into thinking you're crazy for questioning them, is that not abuse?

If your WS was taking their AP out to dinners, shows, or buying them gifts with shared funds, even the gas money used traveling to see them, did you consent to that? I could go on, but I think those examples convey my point.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on what took place within your own relationship, I just can't see cheating and all of the nuances that go along with it as anything short of abuse.

[This message edited by WonderingGhost at 3:08 AM, Wednesday, March 1st]

Wondering Ghost,

You just displayed the point I was making that many people need their perspective or truth to be everyone’s absolute. Why? Odd to me and in my opinion comes from insecurities and self doubt. I had a little of that in me early on. For me, it came from not yet being confident and clear in my own thinking and values. I knew what I wanted and feared judgment if others didn’t agree with me. As I healed, I lost that crap. Cheating was and is not abuse TO ME or my situation. Maybe it is in yours and I respect that. my problem is with people who demand/need their beliefs or "truths"( my word) to be universal when they just aren’t. If my husband raped me, hit me, etc… his intent would be to harm me. His cheating was about him finding some pathetic nasty way to self soothe his insecurities and demons. It was not to hurt me and in his delusional mind I’d never know. You won’t change my mind on this. It’s my situation. My post , if read correctly demonstrates that we can all have our opinions, but it does newbies a disservice to present your own opinion as an absolute fact. I agree, you can have your opinion, but deciding what is abuse to ME is wrong. I’d never say you didn’t suffer abuse. If you think you did then I believe you. Please show me the same respect.

I am glad it has worked out for you. I am glad you found your way most do not. Your forgiveness is something I applaud, in fact it is probably what all us Bs wish we could do with all our hearts. My truth is cheating is abuse. Unfortunately we live in the world where it is not considered abuse. Lives are destroyed, children are ruined. People are murdered over it, become drug users over it, lose their futures over it. My truth is you can get a criminal record for stealing a gum ball from a store, but you can get a movie deal and a "oh I did it for me" award for stealing someone’s future, innocents, and trust. My truth is people are given far too much credit. They know exactly what they are doing, when they are doing it, would not want it done to them, and continue to do it even when they know they are hurting you, because their pleasure is more important then your pain. My truth is there probably is not a better definition of abuse than infidelity. My truth is I wish more people would realize this truth, because maybe, just maybe this garbage would not be so excepted in our society, and a lot less people would be hurt, and those who did the hurting can maybe begin to grasp the destruction they sew, maybe people would fix themselves before they get into relationships and break everything around them. My truth is I want people to see, my truth instead of treating me like some insensitive dog.

Congratulations on your healing and growth. There is a positive reconciliation stories thread at the top that could benefit from your post and I’m sure W2BHA would love to see another positive story captured there.

I am also reconciled/reconciling (as I believe this is a life long process) and I do believe cheating is abuse. There was absolutely intent when my WH decided to betray me and our family unit. I also needed to see evidence that my WH understands this, understood that his actions were abusive in order for us to keep choosing the path of reconciliation.

Each healing journey looks different and I congratulate you again for your work to heal yourself and enable personal growth.

Odd to me and in my opinion comes from insecurities and self doubt

Those statements were/are people simply pushing their truths, their reality, and their mindset

You say you didn't want to be judged..yet you judge..and you talk about others speaking in absolutes, and here you speak in absolutes.

The advice given here has worked for a vast majority of members. Those of us who have been here awhile(not because we are bitter and spewing,but because we have healed,reconciled, and are giving back to the community that helped us), have seen the same story play out over and over. We are not blinded by love and pain,so we often see through a WS's bullshit,whereas a new BS often can't. Do you have any idea the number of times we pointed out their WS was lying, or sounded like they'd taken it underground, and it turned out they were/had? The percentage is quite high.

Not every BS will benefit from the advice given. That doesn't make it bad advice.

I'm glad you found a way to stay in your marriage and be happy.

You didn't find the advice given here to be helpful. And it's possible your path to R won't be helpful to some other members. We all eventually find our own way out of infidelity that works for us.

Take what you need,and leave the rest.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:36 PM, Wednesday, March 1st]

I have found that while cheating behavior is very specific and WS share a great deal of similar actions and statements, that R is a very individual with a great range of ways people find to heal.

I am glad you found your way OnTheOtherSideofHell.

My R is going as well as I think an R can go, and my toughest days are also in the review mirror.

That said, I didn’t mind when some members first told me to run when I got here. Everyone is sharing their path and not cheering against my M, instead they are hoping I find a way out of infidelity.

While my wife now is a far stronger, better version of herself, I do have agree with others that choosing infidelity is abuse. Too many intentional calculations, too many lies for it to be healthy for me, who was invisible during the A. Someone who purposefully denies me the reality of my M, doesn’t care about my well being.

Some WS wake up and understand the damage caused.

Mine certainly did.

I hope your M continues to heal.

I'm glad that you have made it out of infidelity, and seem to be thriving. That is the main goal.

I will say that it seems you have a little pushback, or point to make, and don't appear to be okay with the 'take what you need and leave the rest'. Being that it is an anonymous forum with many different people and stories, it is virtually an impossibility that all advice is going to be helpful.

Those statements were/are people simply pushing their truths, their reality, and their mindset on to others and it’s not helpful. Ever.

See that? That's an absolute statement. In someone else's story, the above is NOT their truth. That is why there may not be any absolutes, but there are some pretty overwhelming near-certainties:

--Whether or not cheating is abuse
--Whether or not to tell an OBS
--Whether or not to do a 'pick me' dance
--Etc.....

Do I agree when someone says their marriage is a sham? Not usually. But I've been here long enough to see betrayed, who have gone through their healing journey, who have discovered, in their opinion, that their marriage was just that. Would I have said something like that to a new, hurting member? No. But that doesn't mean that I am automatically right. The new member has to filter out what does and doesn't work for them.

You weren't ready for some of the tones when you first started reading here. Others were. That's the beauty of the site. I'm not heavy handed, and I not a real fan of some of the descriptions and opinions that come from some people. What I do is give the best advice that I feel I can in their given situation, and hope that it has a positive effect.

Old wounds,

So happy for you as well. I am happy for everyone who is healing their lives with or without staying married. And make no mistake, I believe cheating is incredibly hurtful, damaging, and selfish. I suspect I have a different comprehension of abuse is all. My husband was behaving like a selfish asshole hurting me, his family, and even himself. Did he care about me and his children and the time? I believe he did to the best his internal pain allowed, but cared about relieving his pain much more. I’ve been in such terrible pain before that I neglected my kids. I shut down. It didn’t mean I didn’t care for them. It just meant I hurt too much for my actions to show it. I was weak. I was human. What my husband did was similar on a much grander scale. He was a pathetic, weak, coward who ignored healthy ways to cope in favor of of a quick bandaid. I had every right to walk away from him and never forgive. But I also had every right to do what I thought best for me and my kids. I took the gamble that he’d unfuck himself despite many people insisting he never would. The way I figured, I had nothing to lose. I was healing me and if he did his part, I planned to reevaluate. He did his part. I know it doesn’t always work that way and in many ways I guess I was "lucky"? Haha… not really. I just applaud anyone who seeks happiness and healing. Whatever road that is and I will never think insisting my way or my perspective is the only mystical way to healing. Healing has many outcomes. I don’t think it’s limited to divorce or reconciliation. Weird, I know. A friend of mine was cheated on for years. As far as she can tell he has stopped, but she doesn’t really care. She enjoys her family together, she enjoys the lifestyle they live (travel, homes, cars, etc) she enjoys his company when she wants to, but also has a rich life outside of him. He is just another relationship in her life, no stronger or more important than other relationships. She doesn’t cheat on him, but not that she wouldn’t, she just has zero desire for a New Romantic "love" at her age. She is healed and happy in her situation. It’s not reconciliation or divorce. She chose happy. That’s what I hope for everyone.

Haha, and funny I had no idea that my perspective on abuse, healing, reconciliation, and kindness to newbies would hit such a nerve. 🤷‍♀️

Luna,

Always good to hear people healing and moving on one way or the other. And I agree, cheaters intend to cheat. For me, notice the "for me" part, is that for my husband’s cheating to have been abuse his intentions would have needed to be to hurt me. His intentions were always to soothe his demons. I was unintended collateral damage much the way a drunk driver hurts an innocent as he is soothing his pain. Again, all of it is selfish, destructive, possibly criminal, and terrible, but intent to harm another isn’t necessary there during cheating , in my opinion. I believe sometimes cheaters do intend to hurt their spouse and not care to stop hurting them once it’s discovered. That just wasn’t my situation.

I will always cringe when I hear outsiders insisting the infidelity within their marriage, the causes, the motivations, the feelings invoked, etc must mirror that of others. We all come here for the same reason, but all have different marriages, emotional needs, etc.. that includes the waywards. Things that were said to me early on about my husband, why he did what he did, how he felt being caught, etc just weren’t all true in my situation. That’s why I really think it would be helpful if people started their advice with "in my experience" or "I think" rather than the "your marriage is a sham" type stuff. Cheating may make some people’s marriage a sham and if that’s how they feel then I believe them. Their Marriage is/was a sham. I cringe when others make that declaration about my marriage or anyone else’s. Well, not so much mine anymore. Healing creates more confidence on one’s actions. I cringe for the newbies is all.

I am so HAPPY that you shared YOUR truth on here...thank you for that! Being happily in R is truly a very WONDERFUL place to be!! Luna10 is so correct...I would LOVE to see your post in the "Positive Reconciliation Stories" thread at the top of this Forum!! All you have to do is copy your post on here and paste it into that thread! Just to let you know...by doing this...you will turn the page on that thread...which will make ME very HAPPY!!!

Your post is not a better or worse perspective...it is different. Different is something that may go against what other posts on here do...but it doesn't make it any less of a truth. Thank you for speaking YOUR truth!!

I now know they were acting from their intense pain yet I was not in a head space to "take what I need and leave the rest". The "rest" that I didn’t subscribe to still hurt like a bitch. So, I backed off in search of more compassionate places to read.

I often write that phrase on here because we are all in different phases in our journey of HEALING...and that very RAW pain does come out in the beginning. I also often write that whatever will help the BS to HEAL...as long as it is legal...DO IT!! You found other compassionate places to read...and that seemed to HELP you...so that is a GREAT thing for you! There are those who NEED to see they aren't alone in these feelings...and reading about the "rest" could be cathartic for them. This site is great in trying to show ALL sides!!

I know that feeling of being attacked when others would imply...or even state outright...that what I was going through couldn't possibly be TRUE. I was only fooling myself into believing my H could really give me my fairytale M back!! Yet here I am...living my "happily ever after"!!

THIS...more than anything is probably what leads people in R away from here. It was hard for me to write a POSITIVE post when others were quick to attack it. Yet every time I did that...I would get PM's THANKING me for writing it. That gave me the courage to write MY truth.

I believe that people need to read the compassionate...inspiring...HOPEFUL posts on here. I am very happy that you came back on here to write about being HEALED...to give HOPE for others who are in this intense pain still!! I hope that this won't be your last healing post that you write!!

Haha, and funny I had no idea that my perspective on abuse, healing, reconciliation, and kindness to newbies would hit such a nerve.

It didn't. Others are just showing THEIR perspective...that's all. MY perspective doesn't always match others' on here either...but it doesn't mean that mine isn't as valid. It also doesn't mean that theirs isn't either. Another GEM about this wonderful site!! Being respectful to everyone on here...especially those who have different perspectives...is something we should ALL strive for.

Wants to Be Happy,

I couldn’t agree more! So happy you’ve found peace again as well. And for the record, I have never had problems with other people’s perspective on cheating and marriages In their own lives. I respect and believe their truths. I don’t like others deciding what is true in my life and marriage. That’s all. And I don’t think it serves newbies to have that done to them. They need compassion, advice when asked for, and warnings of possibilities they may not be aware COULD be happening. Insisting these possibilities are happening is not helpful, in my opinion. As similar as cheating stories are…they are also always unique. Marriages, emotional needs, desires, all have individual nuances that make each situation unique. What’s right for one is not always right for the next.

Thank you for sharing, and I agree with the tone of some of the advice here feels as if the BS are kicking other BS while they are down. Early on I did not like internet strangers calling my WW names. I was extremely pissed at her and probably thought the same thing, but speaking as a member, I don't like the name calling in any of the forums here and vowed to never do it.

AS for infidelity being abuse, I absolutely believe it's abuse, or it wouldn't be so traumatic. The actual A wasn't the abuse it was the aftermath, TT, false R, lying, that's the abuse. I describe it as the WS pulls the knife out your back, shows it to you and says "you can trust me now", then plunges it into your heart. That is abuse and it is traumatic.

Thanks for sharing. I'm glad your story is a happy one.

The statements that are most galling to me are those written by someone who claims to know something they can't possibly know. We SIers know nothing about anyone except what we say about ourselves, but some posters insist they know the 'true' motivations of people they don't know. Some of us take outlandish statements to heart; some of us brush them aside; some of us brush some aside and take some to heart. I'm glad you protected yourself.

I have almost always seen my W's A as being about her and her issues. A corollary of that is that she didn't abuse me, because the A wasn't about me. I'm just collateral damage, an almost pain-free term for an extremely painful event. Mine may be a minority POV, but I haven't seen an argument that is good enough to change my mind. Like you, I'm OK with others experiencing their WS's behavior as abuse - after all, if someone says they were abused, I pretty much have to accept that they were abused - they know themselves and their experience a lot better than I do.

Want2bHappyAgain makes me laugh every time she mentions her 'Positive Reconciliation Stories' thread, but she has a good point: the R forum is filled with threads about difficulties in R (not to mention the posts that attack the possibility of R), so it's a good idea to share at least some of the positives.

Tanner,
Agreed, what you described is abuse. I really didn’t experience any of that. He confessed, ended it immediately , answered all my questions, and took full responsibility for the trauma and shit show he caused. I am a sure there are things I don’t know, or didn’t think to ask, and things he truly forgot to mention or felt important. But, I know all I want to know and he still answers questions when they arise. He gives me what I need so I am happy with it. He spent a long time as a cheating asshole, but when he decided he was ready to grow the hell up, he did. I realize that other situations are different which is why the insistence from internet strangers that cheaters aren’t remorseful, still cheating (going underground), gaslighting, etc as a devastated newbie was upsetting. Left me feeling as though my details would not be believed even if I told my story. I just don’t think it’s helpful. 🤷‍♀️Situations are as unique as people are. 🤷‍♀️ And for the record, I am in no way insinuating that I have some prize or unicorn cheater. Cheaters are f’ed up hurricanes leaving carnage in all situations. As much as I hate absolutes, I do believe that all cheating is a traumatic shit show. That is the one thing I believe is always true.

That’s why I really think it would be helpful if people started their advice with "in my experience" or "I think" rather than the "your marriage is a sham" type stuff.

Perhaps this is just a matter of understanding others’ posts. To me it comes naturally to think that whatever someone wrote is their own opinion / belief / experience (unless they are referring to someone else), and they don’t need to explicitly point it out. That is, if XY writes to me "your marriage is a sham", I’ll take it as "XY thinks my marriage is a sham". As simple as that.

Those statements were/are people simply pushing their truths, their reality, and their mindset on to others and it’s not helpful. Ever.

When I first posted here, I got some "truths" that didn’t sit well with me. However, those replies made me think, and they pushed me to analyze my situation from a more objective point of view. I found them to be very helpful as they opened my eyes and gave me strength to stop the bullshit my husband was giving me. Perhaps those statements were not helpful to you, but that doesn’t mean they are not helpful to others. Or ever. Like you wrote: "What’s right for one is not always right for the next".

Anyway, I’m happy you found your truth, and a narrative that works for you. Thank you for sharing your perspective, especially regarding the abuse topic. I used to believe the intention is a necessary condition for something to be labeled as an abuse. However, I came to believe that is a very narrow understanding of an abuse. Let’s say a husband beat up his wife. Perhaps his intention was not to hurt her. Perhaps his violence was "about him finding some pathetic nasty way to self soothe his insecurities and demons". I heard it before: "I’ve never meant to hurt her, I was just mad" and similar. It makes more sense to me to think in terms of harm done, not intentions. My husband didn’t do it intentionally to hurt me, in fact, he didn’t even consider my feelings, he only thought of himself. But he did hurt me. I exhibit symptoms of a traumatized person, I exhibit the same symptoms as women who survived domestic violence. If it looks like a duck…

p.s. I’d also like to see your post in "Positive Reconciliation Stories". This topic will eventually sink, and you’ll probably reach more newbies you mention if you paste it there

Sisoon,

Thank you for that message! Your posts were some of the few that I always searched for and found helpful. Don’t ever doubt that you’re helping strangers out there. :) as for the positive reconciliation stories, I will think about posting there. Not sure why I didn’t originally. Perhaps it was a feeble attempt at helping those who believe their reality is universal that there are other outcomes. I doubt those people would read those stories on the positive reconciliation stories yet they’d likely not believe the sincerity of my reconciliation either 😂🤷‍♀️. Which leads me to another cringey feeling… when one member makes a statement that most reconciled couples aren’t really reconciled and are merely white knuckling it. Or using the fact that couples divorced years later as proof it wasn’t successful. 50 percent of marriages divorce with or without infidelity. If a reconciled couple calls it quits years later, who are we to assume it was a failed reconciliation. Maybe they just grew apart as many couples do. My husband and I are reconciled. Is our marriage perfect? Nope. Is he? Nope. Am I? well, of course… 😂 jk. We are just two flawed humans loving and growing together. That’s all I ever expected from a marriage.

I doubt those people would read those stories on the positive reconciliation stories yet they’d likely not believe the sincerity of my reconciliation either.

"Those people" already have a voice on here Dear Lady. The "Positive Reconciliaton Stories" thread is for "those people" like you and me! We were looking for HOPE...for something that we KNEW in our GUT could be. You found that somewhere else...and that is AWESOME!! I have gone to other websites as well...looking for that positive R experience. There are MANY places where R is indeed written about in a very POSITIVE atmosphere.

I was BLESSED to be on this site when Deeply Scared...one of the co-founders of this site...was still alive. She definitely kept the POSITIVE side of R up and running on here!! This site is NOT the same with her gone. But the legacy she left is still HERE...and MangledHeart has done an EXCELLENT job in giving us a SAFE place to carry on THEIR TRUTH!!

The "naysayers" have their TRUTHS...and they write about it quite FIRMLY on here. It can be pretty daunting at times. I understand where they are coming from because I was one of them. My 1st H cheated on me...we went for R...and then he cheated on me AGAIN. My TRUTH after that was...once a cheater always a cheater. I held that belief for DECADES. It was why I IMMEDIATELY told my 2nd H our M was OVER when he confessed to his A. I was NOT going to live with a cheater!!! As it turns out...I haven't!!

I didn't know what I didn't know. Now that I KNOW what TRUE R looks like...I can sincerely tell my TRUTH on that. It is sort of like how we ALL had NO IDEA what infidelity really was like until we experienced it for ourselves. We can TELL others...just like we were told about it. But no one can really KNOW what it feels like until it is experienced. My HOPE is that one day everyone on here can experience PEACE!

The positivity ebbs and flows on here from time to time...but those stories in that thread...they STILL bring HOPE to those of us who need to read about it! YOUR story won't be for everyone...but if it helps just ONE person...don't you think it would be worth it?

t/j

Want2bHappyAgain makes me laugh every time she mentions her 'Positive Reconciliation Stories' thread, but she has a good point: the R forum is filled with threads about difficulties in R (not to mention the posts that attack the possibility of R), so it's a good idea to share at least some of the positives.

I am HAPPY to see I make you laugh sisoon...lol!! end of t/j

THANK YOU for posting in that thread and TURNING the page!!!!