SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Saying they don't know, or remember, is usually code for.." I know, but I'm not going to tell you, because I don't want to deal with the consequences. "

I'm sorry to agree with you. He can't love you,and do this. He has to love you everywhere..even online. A husband's job is to protect his wife. In his fantasies, he offers you up as prey,and sends your actual picture to strangers. There's no love in this.

By saying it was all fantasy, he isn't taking responsibility for what he's done. He's trying to convince you it wasn't real. You know better.

He will give you everything? Then take it. Get distance. He needs to be in intensive therapy,for a long time,before he is a safe partner.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:24 AM, Monday, October 23rd]

Hellfire I said exactly that to him. That if I didn’t know him after 22 years how can he truly know her? He doesn’t really know anything about her. He hadn’t even gone and looked at her Facebook page. He didn’t even know what her job is. Yet he told her he loved her.

He seems to think we can have a few conversations about it and then it’s done and dusted. I have told him he’s done this to me for 10 years so it’s going to be months or years of conversations to unravel this. He can’t do this at the moment. He can’t even bear to look at me as he is so ashamed. He doesn’t want to talk to me on the phone as he can’t bear for me to hear his voice. He would rather text. He says every time I ring him he feels sick to his stomach as he doesn’t know what else I’m going to say and he can’t cope with it. He says he can’t see a conclusion to this other than him ending it all. I feel I can’t question him anymore as I know he can’t take much more of this. But then for me I have to suffer alone because he is the only person who knows all of this and the only person who can answer my questions. I can’t tell anyone in real life the whole truth.

Saying they don't know, or remember, is usually code for.." I know, but I'm not going to tell you, because I don't want to deal with the consequences. "

I'm sorry to agree with you. He can't love you,and do this. He has to love you everywhere..even online. A husband's job is to protect his wife. In his fantasies, he offers you up as prey,and sends your actual picture to strangers. There's no love in this.

You’re right I know you are. This is how I feel deep down. When he met me I’d just come out of a violent relationship. He always said to me all he’s ever wanted to do is keep me safe and look after me. I always felt so safe and secure with him yet he’s done the opposite and thrown me to the wolves. Offered me up to some sick predator.

[This message edited by Brokenandscared1 at 1:54 PM, Monday, October 23rd]

He sounds very selfish.

He's acting as if he's the victim.

He can't hear your pain..because he's hurting too much?

It's been 3 weeks. 3 weeks ago, he had no problem with what he was doing. He felt it was ok. Remember this: He wasn't sorry, when you didn't know.

The only difference is that you know. He's not ashamed of his behavior. He keeps minimizing it, telling you it didn't mean anything..it was a fantasy..it wasn't real life. And he thinks a fee conversations should be the end of it. That's not shame. It's manipulation.

It takes 3 to 5 years to heal from infidelity. It takes years of the WS working on themselves. It is a long,painful process. He's already telling you he is incapable.

I'm so sorry.

He says he has lost everything and is deeply ashamed. He thinks he’s evil and a monster. You’re right I don’t think he is capable of working on this.

I don’t see how I could ever have him back if I’m honest. I still love him but not the man he is. I love the man I thought he was. I despise what he’s done to me. He’s tainted everything. He’s stolen the last 10 years of my life and he’s stolen my future too. He’s also destroyed his relationship with his daughter who idolised him.

Ok, first, I understand why so many are freaked out over this. It does sound scary. I was a phone sex operator for years. Many people (mainly men in my experience) have very dark fantasies that they like to talk about while doing sexual things to themselves. Most of them would never dream of actually doing the things they talk about. That being said, I do feel he probably has some suppressed anger that he is letting out when talking this way.

Regarding the photos, look up pimeyes online. With a good face forward photo, you'll be shocked at what you can find. They don't give names/addresses but I don't think it would too difficult to find that information.

I feel for you. I don't think this situation is impossible to come back from, but he is going to have to man up and really do some digging into who he is, and what could possess him to allow himself to think and say those things.

He has been sharing rape fantasies with this woman which involves her raping me and there are many messages and voice notes that I have had to endure the pain of listening to. I have heard such awful things said about me that no one should ever have to hear. He told her he wanted to defile me and abuse me whilst they gaze into each others and make love afterwards.

God, this alone would make me want to dump his a$$ and never look back. You certainly have a lot more mercy than me.

OP, whatever issues he has, it is not on you to understand or fix. Not at this point at least. He's gonna have to dive down very deep to work on himself, but again, that's not on you.

I hope you're taking the time to take care of yourself and your kid now. At the moment, he's not ready to face himself, and you can't do that for him.

He always said to me all he’s ever wanted to do is keep me safe and look after me. I always felt so safe and secure with him yet he’s done the opposite and thrown me to the wolves. Offered me up to some sick predator.

I hope you told him that he didn't keep his promise. This would also make me wary about reconciliation. He thinks it was all fantasy and sh!t, but he basically exposed you to potentially dangerous people. Who knows who else those women shared those photos with to keep those 'fantasies' going. There could have been someone that WOULD have been depraved enough to try and find you to make it happen. It's all so sick.

It's nice of you that you still want to help him get better for the sake of your kid, but he is definitely not a safe partner.

He says he doesn’t deserve anything.

He is going to have IC but this is at my request. He doesn’t think he needs it.

Another strike for not being reconciliation material right now. He's really good at self-pity but not to the point of wanting to do the work to get better. He's doing it because you want him to, which is something, but it only seems like it's more to placate you than actually work on himself.

Good luck, OP.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 6:41 AM, Monday, October 23rd]

I am so sorry for what you have endured and how your life has seemingly unraveled in such a short period of time.

🚩🚩🚩 "he doesn’t think it was cheating"

You cannot ever reconcile with someone who has this mindset (if you were thinking of potentially reconciling).

If the cheating lying spouse Cannot/ and Will not admit what they did is/was wrong, then you have nothing to work with.

I’m so sorry for you. You have been betrayed with the photos he shared, the personal info he shared and all he wrote about you to these people.

I’m sorry for your child as well. Her dad is one very sick and demented person.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:33 AM, Monday, October 23rd]

Alcoholics who, while driving drunk, hit someone and kill them did not mean to but the person is dead anyway. Your husband has an addiction that got darker and darker because he "met" another person who brought out his sick fantasies. She was his addiction. You were his victim.

There are people who have these sick ideas but never meet anyone to bond with. They stay buried. In this case he met someone as sick as he is and they formed a third personality. There is a term "folie a deux" which means two people bring out the crazy in the other as they "spin" in their dance tighter and tighter until no sunshine(common sense) gets in. The sickness feeds on itself. That appears to be what happened here. Since you only have his word about her she could be anybody, anywhere. He has brought you into this fantasy. Why? That is what is alarming to us. You are the person "hit" by the addict.

I think you and your daughter need a therapist who can help you both through this. I also think if he brings up suicide again to contact 911 if you are in the US. Let the drs. treat this. It is beyond your ability to deal with.

This is so very sad for your daughter. You are a great mom to protect her from further harm.

Most of them would never dream of actually doing the things they talk about.

With all due respect..how do you know this? How do you know the men with rape fantasies havent,or don't eventually, rape someone? Or the incest fantasies..how do you know they didn't go on,or had already,committed incest? Or any of the other dark fantasies..how do you know they kept it as a fantasy? You don't. You couldn't possibly.

Having dark fantasies that include raping and beating your own spouse..and standing by while watching her get raped,then making love to the person who raped your wife is beyond a fantasy. And he proved that,by bringing his actual wife into this sick game, by sending pictures to these people, to better help the other person imagine raping his wife. He broke any sort of Fantasy by sending out OPs picture.

Ok, first, I understand why so many are freaked out over this. It does sound scary. I was a phone sex operator for years. Many people (mainly men in my experience) have very dark fantasies that they like to talk about while doing sexual things to themselves. Most of them would never dream of actually doing the things they talk about. That being said, I do feel he probably has some suppressed anger that he is letting out when talking this way.

I think there are many men who have these dark fantasies. You only have to look at online porn and see how violent it is towards women to see what turns men on. He does have repressed anger yes. He is the sort of person who hates conflict in real life, he will always agree with me because he doesn’t want an argument. He bottles his anger up. He says it is a punishment kink. He wanted to punish me for not giving him sex.

I hope you told him that he didn't keep his promise. This would also make me wary about reconciliation. He thinks it was all fantasy and sh!t, but he basically exposed you to potentially dangerous people. Who knows who else those women shared those photos with to keep those 'fantasies' going. There could have been someone that WOULD have been depraved enough to try and find you to make it happen. It's all so sick.

Yes I have told him that and he feels awful. It can’t be undone now and there is nothing he can do to put it right. I honestly don’t think he thought through how dangerous this is. It’s reckless behaviour and I can’t believe he carried this on for 2.5 years and never thought about this.

There are people who have these sick ideas but never meet anyone to bond with. They stay buried. In this case he met someone as sick as he is and they formed a third personality. There is a term "folie a deux" which means two people bring out the crazy in the other as they "spin" in their dance tighter and tighter until no sunshine(common sense) gets in. The sickness feeds on itself. That appears to be what happened here. Since you only have his word about her she could be anybody, anywhere. He has brought you into this fantasy. Why? That is what is alarming to us. You are the person "hit" by the addict.

This is similar to his he describes it. He says he never had any of these fantasies before meeting her. But these women shared fantasies that had never occurred to him and he got more and more into it. He said it started off as BDSM but then got darker and more twisted and they would try and shock each other.

Having dark fantasies that include raping and beating your own spouse..and standing by while watching her get raped,then making love to the person who raped your wife is beyond a fantasy. And he proved that,by bringing his actual wife into this sick game, by sending pictures to these people, to better help the other person imagine raping his wife. He broke any sort of Fantasy by sending out OPs picture.

As far as I know he didn’t talk about beating me. They talked about seeing me struggling and crying in pain as they raped me. About making me their slave and kissing and making gentle love in front of me afterwards and making me watch. They sent hundreds of messages to each other but I have only seen about 20 of them. Along with another 20 or so voice notes and some videos. They used an app which deletes the messages after 24 hours so the only messages I’ve seen are the ones they liked so much that they saved them to reread or listen to again. He says these were the worst ones but I don’t know for sure. It’s terrifying to think that so much of what they said I will never know. It also sickens me that they saved these vile messages to go back and look over again. He told her when we had sex and said he was going to think of her. He says this was a lie and just some thing he said but it hurts me so much. I’ve never felt pain like this.

He seems to think we can have a few conversations about it and then it’s done and dusted. I have told him he’s done this to me for 10 years so it’s going to be months or years of conversations to unravel this. He can’t do this at the moment. He can’t even bear to look at me as he is so ashamed. He doesn’t want to talk to me on the phone as he can’t bear for me to hear his voice. He would rather text. He says every time I ring him he feels sick to his stomach as he doesn’t know what else I’m going to say and he can’t cope with it. He says he can’t see a conclusion to this other than him ending it all. I feel I can’t question him anymore as I know he can’t take much more of this. But then for me I have to suffer alone because he is the only person who knows all of this and the only person who can answer my questions. I can’t tell anyone in real life the whole truth.

It sounds to me like you guys need some professional intervention, meaning individual counseling, marriage counseling, and even family counseling. Ordinarily, we would recommend to do the IC first because a bad MC can make things worse by allowing the WS to blameshift, but honestly, I don't see any way for your WH to blameshift and get away with it. I think it would do him good to hear from a third party that what he's done IS a massive betrayal. Further, since he's having trouble sitting in discomfort and listening to your feelings, a skilled third party can lay out parameters for that.

Right now, he's saying he feels like there's no way forward, but getting real help IS a path forward. It's not comfortable and it's not guaranteed, but it's better than suicide.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with all this.

I am going to threadjack. Funhouse, when you were on the phone with these men did they talk about harming their wives? I thought men fantasized about other women, or men, but not to harm their SO.

Welcome to the best club you never wanted to join. That said I'm an old timer here and ha e a few words of advice.

1. Go to the police. Get this documented and on file. You ha e been set up in a manner to minimally have your photos used by others and to be cyberstalked. All it takes is one crazy. Yah yah yah your H would NEVER do that. But here's the thing he has shared photos of you and in today's tech savvy world he has opened you up to this. No charges need to be filed but this definitely needs to be on record.

2. See an attorney know your rights and his legal obligations. I'm not saying you need to make a choice today or tomorrow but you need to know your rights and how to protect your child and self. These are not the actions of a safe stable partner. He is already trying to manipulate you into shutting up. This is an extreme trauma for both your child and you.

3. Get yourself a trauma informed therapist. This is going to time and work to get through this and heal properly.

4. See your dr and have full STD testing that means blood work and pelvic exam and DO NOT have unprotected swx with h until he tests clean for 6 months. This has been going on for years and you have stated that you have no idea how deep this rabbit hole goes. Protect yourself and your child. Inform your provider to the real story. If you are struggling with sleeping and eating share this too. Many of us have just had to deal with plain old infidelity and needed meds to cope through that. Your situation add another level of pain, complexity and stress. There is no shame in seeking

help.

Lastly do jot allow him to minimize this or hush you up because he is overwhelmed. He made this bed, he has to deal with the damage he has created.
Nothing you did or did not do caused this and this is his mess to fix.
Keep you and your child's wellbeing as the number one priority. If you are struggling to eat order some protein shakes. Keep reading keep posting

Of course there are lots of porn out there that includes violence and humiliation.

But that's not what this is. This isn't make believe. This is a real ma ,speaking to a real woman, sending real pictures of his real wife,both intimate and regular pictures, so better to enhance their conversations about how they want to rape his wife.

If he were simply watching rape fantasy porn, then I wouldn't be so alarmed. That's not what he is doing.

I am going to threadjack. Funhouse, when you were on the phone with these men did they talk about harming their wives? I thought men fantasized about other women, or men, but not to harm their SO.

I would like to know this too. He honestly doesn’t want to hurt me in real life. It’s purely fantasy for him. However it doesn’t take away from the trauma and shock of hearing him say those things in his own voice and speak about me in a way I’ve never heard him speak about anyone. I could hear the hatred in his voice when he spoke but he says it was acting, role playing. It feels so real to me and when I first heard it felt like I’d been violated. I had to listen to it and then keep it all to myself because my daughter was with me and I couldn’t break down in front of her. I don’t ever want her to know what awful things he has said. It would destroy her too. I believe it started off with them watching rape or bdsm porn and then progressed. He said they would push each other’s boundaries and maybe over time he desensitised himself to the horror of what he was saying.

There are people who have these sick ideas but never meet anyone to bond with. They stay buried. In this case he met someone as sick as he is and they formed a third personality. There is a term "folie a deux" which means two people bring out the crazy in the other as they "spin" in their dance tighter and tighter until no sunshine(common sense) gets in. The sickness feeds on itself. That appears to be what happened here. Since you only have his word about her she could be anybody, anywhere. He has brought you into this fantasy. Why? That is what is alarming to us. You are the person "hit" by the addict.

This resonates with me so much and is what I think has happened. He said he never had these thoughts until he met her but they bought out the worst in each other. He said she is as sick as he is.

He really is utterly broken and ashamed over what he had done and what he has become. He says he has been forced to take along hard look at himself and his perversions and face the person he has become. He says he is repulsed and disgusted by what he has done and he doesn’t recognise himself. He says it’s not the real him and he never wants to do it again. I am urging him to seek help for sex and porn addiction because I think that’s what started this whole thing off and then he just sought out more and more extreme chats to get his fix which these women were happy to provide. At times he was checking the app 17 times a day to see if he had any new messages. I have all the chat logs and he would message them as soon as he woke up, and then during the day at work. When he got home he would go and shower and send them sexual videos and messages of himself while I was cooking his dinner like a mug. Then he would message them in the evening if I wasn’t sat near him and before he went to bed wishing them good night. He would even check the app when he was with our daughter. He must have felt invincible.

There is almost a psychopathic tint to his actions, I say that kindly. They pushed each other’s boundaries and brought the worst. The big question is would it get to a point where he would actually act this out? What if this sick lady lived in town or she convinced your WH to act out. You never know what he would do to chase the high.
If you love someone and respect them you could never think bad of them even in your worst dreams accidentally , let alone a well thought out fantasy . There’s obviously a lot of underlying hatred towards you of some sort that’s being acted out. His high and his fantasy involves violating you and shaming you.

Take a break from him. Don’t indulge, don’t talk simply take a break. Focus on your healing. This isn’t a simple porn addiction, it’s taken a dark twisted turn. The question now shouldn’t be if you can reconcile, it should be focused on how can I get over this successfully without being scarred and realizing it is not your fault.

Take care.

He really is utterly broken and ashamed over what he had done and what he has become. He says he has been forced to take along hard look at himself and his perversions and face the person he has become. He says he is repulsed and disgusted by what he has done and he doesn’t recognise himself. He says it’s not the real him and he never wants to do it again. I am urging him to seek help for sex and porn addiction because I think that’s what started this whole thing off and then he just sought out more and more extreme chats to get his fix which these women were happy to provide. At times he was checking the app 17 times a day to see if he had any new messages.

You are very empathetic of his possible situation.

Remember to put on your own oxygen mask first.

He has shown himself to be wildly unsafe to you--emotionally, mentally, and possibly physically.

This is who he chose to be for years by having online mistresses.

He is sorry now and suddenly sees how twisted he's become. Yet he didn't see it as he said horrible, horrible things about you. He didn't see it as he fantasized about your pain and degradation.

Do you want to be with someone who doesn't see the destructiveness of those continual choices until they are exposed?
If he didn't see it for all of that time, until he was caught, can he be a safe partner?

Please take care of yourself.

I do want you to watch out for yourself, but I truly support any choice you make.

I am urging him to seek help for sex and porn addiction because I think that’s what started this whole thing off and then he just sought out more and more extreme chats to get his fix which these women were happy to provide.

The fact that you have to urge him to get help, when he’s apparently horrified by his behavior speaks volumes. He’s not sorry yet.
He’s sorry he got caught, and he’s upset about his fall off his pedestal. If he was really, truly ashamed—if he had any capacity to think of how this has impacted you— he would have made a dozen calls to therapists who specialize in sex addiction already. He wouldn’t be dumping on you about how bad HE feels. In fact, his only interactions with you would be about how he can help you, what questions can he answer, what do you need to discuss (and it will be the same things over and over for months), etc.

But he hasn’t. He tells you how awful he feels and that he’s suicidal but has he done ANYTHING himself to begin treatment or to change the course of his life, other than make it about him?

It seems on some level you’re still taking care of him, and I hope you can see how backwards that is. Is he urging you to get help? Is he asking incessantly about how you are doing, what he can do to help you, asking what other information you need, checking in on what your daughter needs, has he called around for therapists for your child?

Has he actually taken ANY actionable steps to show actual responsibility for what he’s done?

You deserve so much more. Please step back from being his caretaker. This isn’t yours to fix. You can’t help him. He has to want to help himself.