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So this is mostly for waywards. My WW and I were having a discussion about my recent therapy sessions. She sometimes asks me if there is anything I want to talk about, and I usually say no because I fear her reactions to said discussions. She sometimes gets angry which is not conducive to a healthy discussion. She says it’s because I tend to keep it all in then unload a crap load of stuff ion her all at once. I typically don’t share with her because I just don’t get the two sided communication with her. In essence, yes I’m sharing what I’m feeling, but so what, I’m not getting much of a response from her. She is lacking in empathy, and it’s like she just can’t/doesn’t understand the pain I deal with daily. She’s getting worried that through my new IC counselor (who is awesome by the way), I’m going to be convinced that I should leave the marriage. I reassured her that usually therapist don’t go right to D talk. That being said, I did tell her we are working on me, trying to rebuild my self esteem and get me out of this feeling of being unlovable. I told her one of my biggest issues is her not working on herself, and this is where my question to other waywards come in. She says she doesn’t NEED IC because she doesn’t have any demons running around in her head. She knows what she did was wrong, she says she never wants to do it again but she’s adamant that she doesn’t need IC. She obviously won’t listen to me that she needs it to get to the source of her reasoning to accept what she did was wrong, why she seems unable to openly communicate her feelings with me. She cried a lot the other night, but when she hears of my struggles she tends to get distant when one would hope a little empathy would come into play but that’s not the case. To be fair, during our discussion, I did let her know that due to her lack if engagement these last almost 3 years that I feel more like a friend with benefits than I do a spouse/life partner. I think that may have pissed her off a little. Not sure what to even say to her anymore at this point. I’m just going to keep working more in me and see where it goes.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 10:27 AM, Sunday, January 21st]

CMB

For context, I am. a WH.

One of the things that fairly leaps from your post is you seem to care more about your WW feelings than she of yours. Based on what you’ve written, it seems that she really lacks any empathy for what her actions did to you. It’s still all about her.

I agree that you should continue to work on yourself with your IC. Don’t worry so much about your WW. Her actions and reactions are really telling you everything you need to know. As is said repeatedly on SI, when someone shows you who they are, believe them. IMO, she isn’t a safe partner despite her words to the contrary.

Your wife unfortunately is cemented in her belief. From those of us (typically the betrayed in most cases) who have been to therapy, we understand the benefit.

However those that are afraid of it, they don’t want to see the benefit. They just know that they cannot go through that process. Maybe they believe "it doesn’t work" so they don’t invest in it. But typically we see that many cheaters just refuse to go for professional advice.

I think the fear of looking deep into themselves to figure out why they cheated is the issue. They do need it. But fear prevents them from getting it

Now her response to your statement about her lack of empathy or compassion. Hmm…..she’s crying over your statement but cannot give you what you ask for. I don’t understand why she is that way but I can tell you that it seems to be a common thing w/ people.

Hurt people hurt people. You’ve heard that before. Something happened to make her emotionally unavailable to you. I don’t know what but she doesn’t have the capacity to do what is needed to help you heal.

But yet I’m sure (as in my case) the cheater was very open and communicated with the AP (affair partner) rather openly. 😡😡

I think there are walls and history between two people that can change the dynamic of a relationship.

I struggled with the same things you are. I saw my H in a whole new light after his second affair. And of course I had to make adjustments in order to continue being his wife.

I realize that sometimes he’s not my person. I have other people who collectively make up my "inner group". The people who support me are people who I lean on for different things. He’s my best friend in some ways but not all ways.

If you are feeling disconnected from your wife then you should be honest about it. She may not have the capacity or ability to do anything but at least you are letting her know. If her fear of a D doesn’t compel her to do something to change that situation, then I don’t think you can expect much.

And if your resentment towards her over that continues, then there may come a time when you need to re-evaluate your relationship.

If you feel unloved or unseen by your spouse, that’s not something that will just go away unfortunately. As the previous poster wrote, people show you who and what they are.

And that can be hard to accept. As the saying goes “the rose colored glasses are off”.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:42 AM, Sunday, January 21st]

In some ways, your marriage is very stable. Your WW, believe it or not is very stable. She has shown you for quite a long time exactly who she is.

I'm sure she has plenty of good traits, or you would not be here today. But the traits that you would like to see addressed.....empathy probably at the top of the list.....are also VERY STABLE traits of hers. She has shown you, over time, that these are traits that she has no desire to address.

Is that acceptable to you? Only you can answer that question. But as for the name of this thread---yes, your wife does not believe, nor has the desire to see, IC. Believe her when she tells you this.

All I can say is what happened to me. My H had very unhealthy coping skills, but he flat out refused IC. Our lives blew up. He was caught cheating, then I confessed to getting revenge and coping by doing the same. I was facing everything head on in IC, and I told him that I wanted a D, that I had become someone I hated to try to get him to change. I told him that my parents had agreed to let the kids and I move in, and I had already found a mediator and made an appointment.

He freaked out. He threw things and pulled at his hair. I had never seen him so enraged. He yelled, "Why is nothing ever enough?! What do you want from me?!!!" (Sigh. Always the victim.) I took a while to think because I was so done asking for things, but then I texted him a short list of actual effort I would need to see, the first being "immediate and ongoing IC that leads to visible changes in you." I expected NOTHING from him, as usual. I started packing to move out that coming weekend.

Three IC appointments popped onto the calendar within 36 hours. He actually attended those and then kept going religiously for many years even though we remained ihs for much of that time. He bought the books I asked for, did the reading. Turns out my sadness, tears, and pain meant nothing to him, but his sadness, tears, and pain were true motivators.

Well that talk with my wife really opened up the flood gates. Had the first good talk forever. Lots of tears, but she finally opened up about something’s in her past. Admitted that she still has selfish tendencies. Hasn’t convinced her that she needs IC yet but some trust building conversation just took place. Progress is progress and I’ll take all of it I can get.

She says it’s because I tend to keep it all in then unload a crap load of stuff ion her all at once.

Is that true? If so, search for info on NIGYSOB.

IMO, you've got to share, because that tests your W. You've got to share thoughts and feelings about issues early, because that's puts them on the table when they're smaller and more easily resolved.

And fearing her reactions is no way to R. You've got to test yourself as a candidate for R, too. You've got to stop letting fear drive your relationship.

JMO ... but I'd have had a better life with my W, and she with me, if we had just asked our questions as we went along instead of letting our fears of some answers stop us. The A made me look for issues that were deal killers, so after the A, I tested everything. She 'passed' then, and she would have passed all along.

Here's the thing, though: we'd have both been better off if we had identified areas where we didn't fit well - it's often better to be unmarried and available for a good partner than be in a relationship that wasn't very joyful.

Well that talk with my wife really opened up the flood gates. Had the first good talk forever.

Could it be, that perhaps for the first time, your W sees your codependency decreasing, and that, omg, you just MIGHT be able to make it on your own, and, just perhaps, your W now sees there just may be a possibility you might D?

KEEP THAT UP.

Your W will never be motivated to lift a finger if she’s utterly convinced you’ll never go anywhere.

Good job!

If she doesn't want to do IC, then what is she willing to do?

Why do you have to give her all the answers?

I discussed the conversation yesterday with my IC and just from the responses she’s heard, she is thinking my wife is suffering from grief of the passing of her mother when she was 10, and her father not really being there for her that much growing up, then her father passed when she was 23 so now my IC also thinks she has abandonment issues. She has advised me to tread carefully because while I begin to regain confidence in myself, things for her could go sideways and it could get messy. I do love the girl, and she has had a rough childhood. I really do want to help her because helping her can get us where we need to be. It has been determined I am an empath and as such it’s in my nature to try and help those in need. It’s just that those in need typically aren’t the ones who ripped my heart out. What a dark tunnel I have to navigate.