SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oddly enough, the words came from my MIL about a different relationship dynamic (she doesn't know about WS's affair), but she said, ""Some people don't have it in them to do what you hope, and that's disappointing." And I couldn't help but think of WS in the same context relative to me. I am really starting to think he isn't capable of being the person I hope to spend my days with.

Tonight he is out with a buddy doing a new hobby (cigar smoking) that he knows I can't participate in due to my health. I had mentioned after dday1 that it would be a good way to reconnect if he could pick up some interests that we could share. He claims he can't control what he gets interested in, but as our MC says, "the grass is green where you water it," and he is choosing to water this particular hobby. There's a part of me that wonders if it was deliberate. He acted surprised/clueless when I pointed out that the hobby would be bad for me, but maybe at a subconscious level he knew and wanted to shut me out? Or maybe it hurts that after all this time, he still has a poor understanding of my symptoms and issues.

To be fair, he supports me in other ways, like helping more around the house, so it's not like he's being cruel about my disabilities. I think I'm just miffed that he's away on a Saturday night having fun with someone else. And yes, we have talked about this, and it makes him sad that I feel this way, but not sad enough to deprive himself of the pleasure/excitement he has about the new hobby.

He seems capable (at least for now) of internalizing the stuff he needs to change in terms of relationships and his need for external validation and reassurance, but fundamentally, maybe he doesn't have it in him to control his impulses, his interests, and his desires. He never has before the affair, so why should I expect that he can change such a fundamental aspect of his personality?

Some people don't have it in them to do what you hope, and that's disappointing

I think this is very true. It took me a while to understand that it didn't matter if the issue was my fWH couldn't (a matter of brain chemistry or too-ingrained FOO) OR wouldn't (a matter of will) change, I just had decide whether I could stay married to him if he didn't change. Once I knew I couldn't stay if he didn't change, the rest was just timeline. How long did I care to wait to see if there was meaningful change?

I had mentioned after dday1 that it would be a good way to reconnect if he could pick up some interests that we could share. He claims he can't control what he gets interested in

For a bit I'm going to respond to the broader issue about couples having shared interests.

IMO, it's healthy and even necessary for couples to have some separate interests that they either pursue solo or with others (with appropriate boundaries in place, of course).

These separate interests can not only nurture each person individually and give the couple some interesting things to discuss (because they weren't both there), but it also can break patterns of codependency. Each partner in the relationship still maintains their own, unique identity, etc.

So, do you also have individual interests that you pursue?
Do you expect to be each other's soul social life or can you give room for him to maintain some of his own interests and friendships?

Getting only a small keyhole peek into your relationship, I don't know where the balance is in your relationship.

Do you have interests that you do together?Does he make time with you a priority?

Even though I think separate interests are healthy, there is a matter of balance between solo interests and shared interests.

My concern in what you write is in the specifics of his response:

He claims he can't control what he gets interested in

In this response he abdicates his responsibility. It's not his "fault;" apparently he is just a pinball in the pinball machine of life--being flung to wherever the paddles take him.

Nah. He has choice, and he needs to own that.

Your MC sounds wise with their analogy about watering the grass. Is he also prioritizing time with you?
Taking drives? Trying a new restaurant? Antique or junk shop browsing? Cuddling up for a movie at home? Taking a walk?
Playing rummy?

Hi, your bio says you've had four d-days? Please correct me if I am wrong. If so, what changes did he make after d days 1-4?

Is this cigar smoking a weekly thing or just occasionally? Weekly, I would probably be livid, on occasion maybe I'd give him a little slack as long as I was confident he was where and with people he was supposed to be.

During my entire marriage up to D-Day, my WH was involved in the martial arts, his passion since he was just a young boy. It wasn't until D-Day that I realized how his interest negatively impacted our marriage. He was doing his thing twice a week when he was not traveling, and several Friday nights a year as well as a couple of weekends a year. Within a few months after D-Day, he stopped his martial arts to focus on the marriage and honestly I realized I put up with way too much of his "hobby." The few times I complained he basically ignored me.

Your WH needs to step up making your marriage a priority, what is he currently doing to spend time as a couple?

[This message edited by annb at 6:15 PM, Sunday, March 3rd]

I'd say people have some, but not total, control of their interests.

I love TV dramas and movies; my W knew about movies when we got together. I love bike riding, too, but neither of us knew that until we had been M for more than 5 years.

My W won't watch violent media; and she isn't as happy watching a show as I am. I don't ask her to do that. Since d-day, however, she has increased her willingness to watch with me, because she knows I like that. OTOH, biking takes 12-20 hours of my time during the biking season, 5-10 hours during the rest of the year. Losing biking due to health and/or age would mean quite a bit less joy for me. I'm addicted, though, and it's not totally within my control.

I've post this on other threads,but not verbatim. I married young at 24, soon-2BEXWW was 22. I filed after 27 years, divorced at 33 years.

When we got married, I was still in school and she worked. I supported my end of things while working a union job part-time. We held off having kids for over a decade while we established our careers. That decade was good, because she had no real responsibilities. I am a very hardworking person and adult very well,so I carried a majority of the load.

After kids, it was different, as she had to step up and actually be a mom. It was at this point that I realized just how bad she was at "adulting". Add to this her lack of empathy, selfishness, entitlement, and need for validation, and, well, you get the point.

I felt like Boxer from Animal Farm. The less she did, the harder I worked. After Dday, I was done. I mean done. I let no boundary remain broken and unaddressed. When she forgot to buy me a valentine's gift, I told her to get her ass in the car and buy me something expensive. Just to add, she neglected to buy meva gift on our first Christmas together and had to run out to a gas station on the eve.

I gave her 6 mo ths to prove to mevthatvshe was worth R, but did not tell her about the time limit as she is performative and transactional. She would treat it like a challenge and then immediately revert at the end.

At the end of 6 months, I went away to think deeply and returned with a simple question, a shit test if you will. She failed spectacularly and I told her that since she was never going to change, we would be divorcing. Then I went to bed.

The absolute correctness of my decision has been underscored by the fact that not only has she not changed, but she has gotten worse in the last 5 years. For me, my life has been largely peaceful. Sure, I've had some relationshipscand suffered setbacks, but through it all, I am in control of who and what I allow into my life.

Looking back, my EXWW had her psychological development arrested at some point in her early to late teens. In her mid 50s she is just an older version of her 20 year old self and will likely remain so until she dies. It's probably a combination of her ADHD and undiagnosed aspergers coupled with a massively dysfunctional FOO. Plus, she was hypersexual at a very age, which created some disfunction in how she related to men. After her S, she confessed that she feels a need to please men who pay her attention. Yeah, that made me barf in my mouth a little.

So yeah, she just wasn't wired for R.

I think my wife is the same, just not wired for recovery. She has had some childhood trauma and my IC thinks she’s never learned to process her greif. She will behave like a 10 year old when we argue. She says she doesn’t need IC, she has no demons she says, blames the marriage for the affair, doesn’t seem interested in doing the work necessary for recovery, is still selfish, and is so god damn stubborn that I think she let the marriage go before she’d ever agree to do the work. Do I think we are done? Yes, pretty much so. I’m pretty convinced after 3 years that she’s never going to change, or even try to.🤷🏼‍♂️

I am going to echo the comments re: separate hobbies. One of the things I realized post A was that my WH (and I) really only had separate time when we were at work - otherwise we were together 24/7. We needed something else to do. Cigar smoking is a weird one IMO but I don't think it's a bad thing for him to want to do.

I will disagree about the whole having a choice about what you like and what you don't. Sure I can feign interest in certain things and develop interests in things I did not initially enjoy - but not always - sometimes things are just NOT my thing and the best I can do is fake it. For example, WH likes video games (although he does not play them much) and I just can't do it - they can hold my interest for about 30 minutes and them I'm bored with them and feel like I'm wasting my life. I felt this way about them long before we met, and I have tried to find some enjoyment out of them - and yes, there are certain types of games that can hold my interest for longer and others I just can't stand - but after 30 minutes or maybe an hour max with even the kind of games that are the most appealing to me, I'm done. I will admit, I only play them to make him happy. I'd rather be doing lots of other things. And that's okay.

I cannot do some kind of mind-meld and convince myself I do (or do not) enjoy something and I don't think it's particularly helpful to want someone to do that. I get the whole the grass is greener where you water it, but that does not mean you enjoy the watering.

It's interesting to see the different angles here.

It took me a while to understand that it didn't matter if the issue was my fWH couldn't (a matter of brain chemistry or too-ingrained FOO) OR wouldn't (a matter of will) change, I just had decide whether I could stay married to him if he didn't change.

This is an excellent point, BreakingBad, and I'm going to try to remember this. I have decided to give R a chance for the next 3 years, until our kid is done with high school, so that if we split, it's less disruptive to her life. Part of me is definitely watching his behavior to evaluate whether we are compatible in the long run and looking for changes that indicate yes or no.

re: separate hobbies. One of the things I realized post A was that my WH (and I) really only had separate time when we were at work - otherwise we were together 24/7. We needed something else to do.

We have plenty of separate activities. We are not together 24/7 outside of work, though we soon will be (WS lost his job; I work from home). He goes for long walks (something I can no longer physically do), works out, does projects around the house, plays video games (solo), goes out with friends for lunch and dinner. I am disabled and have a very limited set of options in what I can do anymore, with or without him. I talk to friends on the phone and go out for lunch maybe once a month. I read. I watch movies and TV. He will sometimes watch a show with me, but he prefers to game. We go out for dinner maybe once a month (it's all I can handle). The one time of day we come together is dinner with our kid, and we'll often watch a show together.

He says he likes having me in the same room with each of us doing our own thing. This didn't bother me before the affair, but during the affair, he pulled away a lot and I became disabled. We stopped doing all of our shared activities (biking, snow sports, dining out, travel - all are too physically demanding for me now). We barely talked. We didn't connect physically. So now, him finding new interests that continue to exclude me feel like a slap in the face.

Our situation is significantly complicated by my chronic illness and disability. Even the MC struggled to find a solution. It's unfortunate that he has little interest in the activities I enjoy and can do. He used to be a lot more into music and books and movies (all things I can still do). We've known each other for 30 years, so obviously we're going to change, but I don't think it's too much to ask for a partner who tries to have *something* in common with me.

Back when we met, we took up each other's interests in addition to having our own, and that was really rewarding. I miss having that kind of connection.If I psychoanalyze myself, I think I need that 24/7 connection for a while, to make up for the deficit during his LTA. We are still in a "dead beadroom" situation. He will make an effort about once a month to make me happy, but it doesn't come naturally to him, and that's where I come back to "maybe he just doesn't have it in him." Looking back on our time together, I guess he never had it in him, and it just didn't matter before?

[This message edited by NoThanksForTheMemories at 4:31 PM, Monday, March 4th]

Replying separately to annb's questions, which I missed in the previous post (sorry!):

Hi, your bio says you've had four d-days? Please correct me if I am wrong. If so, what changes did he make after d days 1-4?

Is this cigar smoking a weekly thing or just occasionally? Weekly, I would probably be livid, on occasion maybe I'd give him a little slack as long as I was confident he was where and with people he was supposed to be.

The cigar thing is weekly, but usually just in our backyard for an hour or two, always on a Friday or Saturday night (sometimes both).

In terms of changes, he started regular IC after dday2. We did MC for about 6 months, after dday3, but he rarely put into practice what the MC suggested, and I eventually gave up. He did group therapy for a while, which made the most difference and is what prompted dday4. The first 3 ddays happened after I pressed/confronted him about things. Dday4 was a series of voluntary confessions. He's watched some of the Affair Recovery videos and read a couple books, and he did all his group therapy exercises. He's also had a lot of long, painful conversations with me, held me while I'm crying (when he's around), and tried to be more considerate in general. It took him a long ass time to get out of the "fog" of breaking up with his AP - 3 years of loving someone else will do that, I suppose. There has been no love-bombing, almost no sex, no real dates. We go out to dinner, and it's all very friendly. He will hold my hand now and kiss me, but there's not much in the way of flirting or dressing up or "spark". He does regularly say he loves me and is sorry for what he's done to us (his words - he doesn't like calling it "the affair").

Honestly at this point (15 months past dday1), I have pretty much lost hope that our marriage will ever be truly good for me again. So much damage has been before and since dday. We were really good together for about 25 years. That's more than most people get, so maybe I should just be satisfied? When I tell him that, he gets very sad and says he wants us to get back to where we were, but then he doesn't actually DO much to help us get there.

[This message edited by NoThanksForTheMemories at 4:48 PM, Monday, March 4th]

Maybe D is your answer. Google sink cost fallacy.

Maybe D is your answer. Google sink cost fallacy.

I haven't ruled out D. In fact, I'm thinking it's likely to happen in a few more years, after our kid is closer to 18. I don't want to put her through shared custody, leaving her home (I can't manage our current house in my condition), and all the upheaval of divorce when she needs to be focused on high school and getting into college.

I am curious about people's opinions on change in general. Do any of us have the capacity to change more than superficial behavior? Or are we all too beholden to biology and we just don't want to accept that?

Have you considered gifting him a prank cigar?

LOL, I didn't know about prank cigars. Thanks for the idea!