SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You posted this in reconciliation, do you want to reconcile?

Here's the relevant thread:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/649198/marriage-without-reconciliation/?ap=1

BT,

Yes actually you do have a right to say who she can and can’t be friends with. Say she was friends with a bunch of bank robbers, or sex traffickers, would you say "Oh honey that’s fine"? I’m guessing no. Based on your responses I am absolutely certain that you both tug swept everything.

As a spouse, you have every right to say this person isn’t a friend of our marriage. Doesn’t matter if they are gay or straight, man or woman. If the interactions with that person is hurting the relationship, then it’s hurting the relationship.

She already cheated on you. Now she is showing the same behavior as before and it’s hurting you. You are upset because you know what is wrong. At least it’s an EA. If it wasn’t, then not talking to him in order to help the marriage wouldn’t be an issue

And you are being so gaslit you can’t see it. No friend man or woman should ever come before your spouse. Ever. That’s an affair. No shortage of stories about a cheating wife claiming their bestie guy friend was gay while having sex with them.

Im married to her because I still love her.

So to be clear, she treats you this badly but you love her? Did you grow up loving people who treated you badly?

Where is your self-protective anger?

Hey OP,

There is so much I want to say, but I keep deleting it, so I'll say this: do you love your Ww or do you love the idea of having a wife? Can you separate the person from the institution?

@Justsomeguy

I can honestly say I do love my WW. But separating the person from the institution is a different story. Thats a lot harder.

It really feels like I'm fighting against the situation again, just like when the affair come to light. . It feels like its not back to the start.

I aways said I wouldn't let this happen again. I would see the signs. Well the signs are here. I have felt like this for 6 months and what have i done about it. Nothing at all. Im still here and I'm turning a blind eye.

No wonder she cheated on me. Im stupid. She is doing it again in all but a sexual way and here I am accepting it.

I feel silenced. It feels like I have no option to put up or shut up. I know its not the case and I could leave if I really want to. But I don't want that.

Things were working before this.

A number of months ago it felt like we were making good progress. It felt like we were close and even though we had our troubles and I had some bad days, she was always there.

Now it feels like I know she is having conversations with another man. Gay or not. Its still time she is giving to some one else and not me.

I just don't know what to do from here. As I don't want to leave. I just want her to see what this is doing to us and how far we have come in the relationship since the affair.

@OwningItNow

Thats the thing. She doesn't really treat me badly. Before now things have been working. But i had this feeling things were changing. I seen a difference in what she did against what she use to do.

She constantly said and still says that she hasn't changed. At times she has even said its me thats changed.

I just wish she would open her eyes and see whats happening here. Its like she is back in some kind of fog thats making her see that there is nothing wrong with us or what this is doing

Things weren't working before. Her affair was swept under the rug. Rugsweeping is the opposite of reconciliation.

Please stop saying you deserve this. You aren't stupid.

You need to read the 180, and start immediately. Work on getting stronger.

Again..how do you know she's gay? Have you investigated him, aside from what he's told you? It was also mentioned she could be hiding a different man,and using the gay man's name,as the contact. That's super common.

You love who you want her to be. Who she actually is, is a woman who has already cheated,at least once, and is doing it again, while calling her husband stupid,and completely dismissing his very real, very normally pain. She's being awful.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:35 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

She is not in a fog. No magical mist has descended upon her,and caused her to become abusive and uncaring.

She is showing you who she is. Believe her.

BT,

I know it can seem like I’m attacking you or coming off as aggressive, I assure you I am not. During my W affair, after I had discovered pretty definitive evidence of at least an EA, I actually had dinner with both AP and WW in some pathetic attempt to believe her story (we got to close nothing happened, we are just friends and you can’t tell me who I can be friends with). By that point they had been sleeping together for months, and of course continued while I was being told I was controlling and all that.

I see a lot of parallels in what you are going through now and what happened to me. I will absolutely admit I have a bias and see cheating now a lot more than I ever did.

That being said:

She’s talking to another man who isn’t a friend of yours, and from what you have said hasn’t even talked to you. -I never talk to any of my friends wives without them around, even like my best friends, if I talk to thier wife it’s because I am asking about a present for my friend or their kids or something similar. No man should be talking to YOUR wife constantly.

She already had an affair so you know what she is capable of. You already rugsweept first affair, and now you are being gaslighted and again. Yes. You. Are. She has already proven she can, and it definitely seems like she is doing it again.

If it was "just" a friendship-she shouldn’t be texting him all the time, and, again, if their interactions were hurting the marriage it would be easy to take a break, instead you are being blamed for feeling bad because of her behavior. That is gaslighting

When trying to get her attention, you need to create impact. You've tried different ways of communicating with little result so I think it's time for something new.

What about practicing the 180 detailed very well here at SI? Perhaps a 180-lite. I think if you do that in a disciplined fashion it may send her a clearer signal that something has changed and then, perhaps, a dialogue can be opened. Plus it helps you take care of yourself first.

Yes actually you do have a right to say who she can and can’t be friends with.

Not exactly.

You can ask her to stop. She then chooses to comply with or reject your request. You then get to choose how you'll respond to her decision.

You can also set your boundary in terms like, 'If you continue that relationship, I will initiate D.' Of course, you have to be ready to D if she violates your boundary.

Telling her, 'You can't continue your relationship with this guy' is ludicrous, unless you're willing to imprison her.

You can't control her. You control only yourself. You can't change her. You can change only yourself.

Gently, you've been rug-sweeping, and that's not a solution because it buries the pain from being betrayed. But the pain is alive. If you try to bury it, it will grow and probably come out just when it will screw you up.

Sisson,

Let me clarify my point. No you’re right, no one can’t control anyone else. However, someone who is a threat to the relationship, yes every partner/spouse has the right to say that keeping that relationship is hurting the primary. BTs W can be friends with whoever she wants of course, but it doesn’t mean it’s a good relationship. And BT has every right to say "I am not comfortable with this person and they aren’t a friend of the marriage"
A non WS will hear that an act accordingly
A WS will continue with the relationship

I feel silenced. It feels like I have no option to put up or shut up. I know its not the case and I could leave if I really want to. But I don't want that.

You're between a rock and a hard place. You don't want to leave, but you also don't want this to continue. I get it. It's scary to take a stand when things may not turn out like you want them to.

She's straight-up disrespecting you. She's prioritizing the relationship with this guy over you. You're tolerating this lack of respect because you'd rather be treated poorly by her than be apart from her.

She's walking all over you. She knows you won't go anywhere so she does what she wants, and she absolutely doesn't respect you for allowing it to continue. Strength is attractive. Allowing yourself to be treated poorly because you're afraid is not. Really chew on that. I hope it lights a fire in you to stand up for yourself.

You'd do well to summon your courage and start the 180. But don't do it unless you really mean it. You have to fully buy into it or it's futile. The cool thing about the 180 is that it helps you practice standing up for yourself, which is beneficial regardless of whether you R or D. And you becoming a stronger partner who has good boundaries and expects and requires respect could potentially save your marriage.

Here's the link: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/understanding-the-180/

And more in-depth info: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/faq/bs/?FAQ=11

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 11:07 PM, Tuesday, March 5th]

I don’t think your being unreasonable, if it makes you uncomfortable then your WW should respect your feelings and stop texting another guy. Your feelings are valid.

I think you should meet this guy with your wife and watch their body language and trust your gut feelings about the two of them. I also wonder if he is a new friend or someone she used to text before her affair.

Her affair has left you feeling understandably insecure and struggling to trust. Your WW needs to acknowledge that and be more transparent about any friendships and happy for you to meet up with them etc.

I just want her to see what this is doing to us and how far we have come in the relationship since the affair.

Gently, but you seem to be desperately looking for something that may not be there.

You want your spouse to exhibit a behaviour so that it can soothe you, pacify you, assure you.

So, there is a fundamental problem here; you are basing your happiness on her, not on yourself. In order to be truly happy, you must be comfortable in being happy yourself. Others contributing to your happiness is just icing on the cake.

Bt5050, I am going to be more blunt than I was in my last post to you. I have read your entire thread again and it’s clear to me what the problem is in your marriage…YOU. You are afraid to leave her and you just want things to go back the way they were.
Give me a break. She is doing this because she can. She knows you will not leave her. Surely you can see the path your situation is leading too? This gay man and her are probably already having an affair. If not it will only be a matter of time before she finds a another. She is the way she is. She is fine with situation. Obviously! You are not. So who has to take action. YOU. I only know one way out of this predicament. She has to understand that her behavior will lead to losing you. That may take you actually filing for divorce. But it may not be that extreme. At least sit her down and tell her you don’t care how much time she gives to him as long as you come first as her husband. You are the first person she tells of an accomplishment or the person she goes to when she needs cheering up. You come first. From what I can tell, you don’t feel as though that is happening. I want you to take a look at yourself and understand are you giving her a spouse she can respect. It may be hard but it is doable. I am not condoning her behavior. She is in the wrong here. But the onus is on you to make this happen.

Ok some advice from what I would do if I were in your shoes.

I’d tell her:

It’s clear that you have replaced me as your emotional partner. You’re not interested and excited to talk to me each day, you now have found him.

That is your choice.

But it’s my choice if I stay in a relationship where my partner gets more satisfaction emotionally, intellectually and of course from your history, physically, from another person.

But I’ve been down this road with you once before. And it does not end well from my experience. You clearly don’t care that this relationship of yours is affecting me from continuing to heal from you past damaging choices.

So I am choosing to move on without you. You can follow or let me go. What you do will show me a lot about your true feelings for me.

I need a partner who loves me and desires to make me her number one. You obviously run hot and cold in that arena and I cannot trust that you’ll be there for me over the coming decades.

I wish you well in your journey. I’ll be working to legally end what your choices continue to damage.

Then realize for yourself that: you’ve said it. You don’t need to say it again. Stop taking about it with her. Stop beating the dead horse. Realize that she is no longer there for you and work to move on without her.

If she starts engaging tell her that until she shows you that you don’t need the other person anymore and is excited to be and interact with you, you’re no longer interested in interacting with her.

I know it would be hard for you, but if you’re serious about not staying in a 1 sided relationship, it would behoove you to go talk to a lawyer and start the D process. I know how difficult that would be,
But it actually could work to your advantage and it can be stopped anytime.

My rule of thumb is,
State what you need, and then move on alone until you see it from her.

If she doesn’t deliver you then have your answer. If she does, then don’t let her jump right back in until she proves it’s real and not just faking it until her next new "love"

bt5050,

I'm struck by your post about your W treating you well immediately after posting about how abandoned you feel in your M.

It's healthy to remind yourself that from an external POV, your W may look good, but in reality, she's not giving you what you want.

You say you know what you promised yourself if it looks like another A is brewing, but you can't bring yourself to take the promised action.

What do you think is keeping you from fulfilling your promise to yourself? What do you need to do to stop betraying your promise? What do you really want to do?

*****

Let me clarify my point. No you’re right, no one can’t control anyone else. However, someone who is a threat to the relationship, yes every partner/spouse has the right to say that keeping that relationship is hurting the primary. BTs W can be friends with whoever she wants of course, but it doesn’t mean it’s a good relationship. And BT has every right to say "I am not comfortable with this person and they aren’t a friend of the marriage"

Well, your statement has no action connected with it. What does pointing out that a person is not a friend of the M do? it's just a description that asks for no response. That doesn't look weak - it IS weak.

Say you tell your WS not to communicate with any potential or past ap. Then he communicates with one them. Now what? As far as I can see, you're at a dead end that you can get out of only by accepting their behavior or D'ing. Telling your WS to do something paints the BS into a corner.

It's much better to tell yourself that you'll do _____ if your WS communicates with om. It's probably a good idea - but not necessary - to tell your WS, 'If you communicate with om, I'll D.' What's important about a boundary is your own commitment to fulfilling the requirements of the boundary.

Boundaries are about you, not about other people.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:08 PM, Wednesday, March 6th]

Firstly I would like to thank everyone for their advice and support. I appreciate it so much. Thank you!

I thought I would jump on and give an update.

Things aren’t good. I have tried so many times to explain how her texting another man, gay or not, is not only triggering for me, but is disrespectful considering what we have been through. She has said that since bringing this up over 10 days ago, she has only text him a few times. Even though he has text her she has ignored him. They work together. It doesn’t end with a text.

But the fact that she doesn’t seen anything wrong with this, just shows how little respect she has for me and our marriage. I already felt belittled, not good enough, insignificant and unloved from the first affair. But now I’m feeling that all over again. I have tried explaining this. But she won’t listen.

Every time I bring it up she turns it around back on to me. She says that she is sick of this and that I can’t do this for ever. She has said I need to help myself. Nothing is going on, he is a friend and he is gay. That’s her get out of jail card. He is gay. We are friends. She keeps asking why I keep doing this.

Instead of telling me how much she loves me, instead she tells me how bad I am. How miserable I am because I’m finding all this difficult. How negative I am. How this is now all my fault. It’s me that’s causing this now all because I can’t get over the fact that she is now texting another man and triggering me. She says it’s my fault that because she isn’t cheating and I’m still causing problems with regards to trust and self-worth its now my fault. Then later she says she didn’t mean it and she was angry.

I mentioned her texting this lad just this morning. She has text me saying that may be she is sick of this. She is threatening to leave once again.

It just shows how weak and pathetic I really am! She cheats on me and I take her back. She texts under my knows AGAIN!, refuses to stop and then threatens to leave because I’m not going about this in the way she wants. I stay and she tells me she is sick of this. I didn’t cause it. I didn’t ask for it and I got nothing from it apart from heart ache.

But I’m weak. I want to stay. I want to love her and I want my family. Ever since she got this lads number and continues to text she doesn’t see its destroying me, our family and our marriage.

She has changed. But she has only changed since texting this lad. I love her with all my heart and I genuinely mean that. But if she loved me she would be caring and understanding instead of cold and telling me how bad I am. When we are fine later she says she didn’t mean it. But it’s happening all the time now. I think she means it alright

It just feels like history is repeating itself.

At least last time I think she did care. This time I don’t think she does.