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Yesterday my WH confessed to yet another PA with a former neighbor, who I considered to be a friend of almost 25 years.

Not friends since yesterday for sure.

I just called her to get "her truth", and thought that maybe she would at least give me the honesty of telling me how long they saw each other, or how many times it happened, or was this what he said (just twice, about five years apart, drunken and awful).

But nope.

She says she doesn’t remember anything happening AT ALL. "Was he drunk when he told you this? I don’t remember anything like that happening. Sorry. I wouldn’t do that to you."

She says she "just can’t remember it happening".

I will say this: she is an EXTREMELY heavy drinker, and at the time was very much sexually promiscuous. She was drinking about 12-18 beers per day - this is not an exaggeration. Is it possible that she did this and actually cannot remember it at all?

This drinking level went on for about 6 or 7 years before her husband left.

Her husband only left after she let another affair partner (the fifth one I know of, counting my husband) move into a tent on their property - and then was demoted for having an affair with her boss (who got fired for his affair with her). Codependency continued after their divorce, as he helped her with everything afterwards and still does, even though she lives with another man now.

But I am so stupid for calling her. If their affair was a longer term one, he’s protecting her and she’s protecting him STILL, or she’s lying to just stay out of this mess, or she’s just a liar all around, or she’s an alcoholic who can’t remember.

Any way it goes, this wasn’t worth the data on my cell plan.

No not stupid at all.

You are like an investigative reporter tracking down leads.

Even if she lies her lies will contain some truth, that truth could be that your WH had sex with a drunken woman not able to give informed consent.

I could tell by the way she lied that she ABSOLUTELY remembers it.

She’s a terrible liar. I have known her over 25 years. She has slept with another friend’s husband as well, and her lies about that were about as convincing. Her response of "was he drunk when he said this" was one of her go-to lies. She tried to tell my friend’s wife that her husband was drunk when he confessed that he slept with her, too. She said her own husband was drunk and was crazy when he caught her affair with his boss, and that her boss’s wife was on too much medication for mental illness when she caught them, too.

It’s her lies. I guarantee that I know her, and that both times she remembers.

Her voice in the lie, her words, and her history tell me that. And the fact that she couldn’t wait to get off the phone - and offered me absolutely zero in the way of support for what’s happening in my life? She blamed my friend for the fact that her husband had sex with her; she blamed the boss’s wife for being "crazy" and not meeting his sexual needs; she blamed her husband for being laid off from work for why she "had to have other men".

The details of both encounters include her verbal invitation to the bed, as well as mutual physical and verbal pleasure. I can’t get that part out of my head.

I could tell by the way she lied that she ABSOLUTELY remembers it.

She’s a terrible liar. I have known her over 25 years. She has slept with another friend’s husband as well, and her lies about that were about as convincing. Her response of "was he drunk when he said this" was one of her go-to lies. She tried to tell my friend’s wife that her husband was drunk when he confessed that he slept with her, too. She said her own husband was drunk and was crazy when he caught her affair with his boss, and that her boss’s wife was on too much medication for mental illness when she caught them, too.

It’s her lies. I guarantee that I know her, and that both times she remembers.

Her voice in the lie, her words, and her history tell me that. And the fact that she couldn’t wait to get off the phone - and offered me absolutely zero in the way of support for what’s happening in my life? She blamed my friend for the fact that her husband had sex with her; she blamed the boss’s wife for being "crazy" and not meeting his sexual needs; she blamed her husband for being laid off from work for why she "had to have other men".

The details of both encounters include her verbal invitation to the bed, as well as mutual physical and verbal pleasure. I can’t get that part out of my head. Definitely consent was given, as she literally invited him using words. And she remembers, I have no doubt. She about choked when I confronted her.

[This message edited by 5Decades at 7:02 PM, Friday, June 21st]

People who are truly innocent would say, "That never happened. I can't believe he's telling you this. Is he okay medically?? I'm worried for him."

People who are lying say, "I don't remember that happening...."

#unconvincing

[This message edited by BreakingBad at 12:12 AM, Saturday, June 22nd]

I agree with Breaking Bad, this would have caught her off guard, her response would have been more like WTF? She is lying to you.

I know it hurts and I am sorry. You don’t deserve this.

My suggestion is to dump her as a friend and never bother yourself with her again.

You do not need people like this in your life.

She is totally blocked by me and my husband on all fronts at this point.

We both know she’s lying.

He said if she tries to call (he has a business) that he will tell her that he is being open and honest because he is trying to save his marriage, and at this point he doesn’t care about anything but that. So whatever she plans to say or do, go ahead.

I told him she won’t call, because she knows that I will go completely scorched earth on her, and her "Christian" front will blow up in her face because I will light that fuse like a nuclear bomb and she knows it.

I know that the reason she lied is she wants no part of anything like a scandal. Her boyfriend will dump her and fast.

She’s a lying liar who lies.

As for where my marriage is heading, I want to fix my life first, and work on my relationship as I go.

My WH said he is willing to do whatever it takes. He has done everything so far, with the exception of this damn trickle truth bullshit. I believe after the last couple days, he has quite a bit of insight into my pain, grief, anger, and determination to leave his cheating ass if he fails to stop being an idiot.

He has done everything so far, with the exception of this damn trickle truth bullshit.

Would you care to share what he is doing? Because lying and trickling out doses of curated truth, these are R killers and enormous red flags.

Ink,

In the process of trickle truth, he has answered my questions honestly. This one affair he held back because he thought it would be something I might not recover from.

There is some important information I need to add in here, because it makes the context and timeline help in our recovery.

I have a family of origin story that he knew about, but I only disclosed one part of it and only in minor detail before his most recent affair was discovered last June. Until that point, he knew that my father was physically abusive, had hit me and my younger brother, and that my younger brother has suffered PTSD and severe depression and several suicide attempts due to this over the course of his life. My WH also only knew that I used to hide from my father in order to avoid him, and that when we first married I had anger and fear issues from it - I overcame these and have generally recovered and no longer have the anger issues (but the fear has definitely reappeared after the affair).

So, he also knew that my oldest brother touched me inappropriately. That’s all he knew, and I allowed him, many years ago (like in 1979) to say to me that he thought is was kind of a common thing. At the time, in that time period, was something I think many people believed, and given what I’m about to say, I was conditioned to accept, so I moved on and never brought it up again. I have since changed, and so has WH.

During our counseling in this reconciliation, as his disclosure unfolded, MY disclosure also unfolded.

My disclosure was one of the most traumatic events I have ever experienced in my life, and has coincided with a physical illness as well.

I finally disclosed to my WH the true extent of my father’s physical abuse, which included beatings that he would tell me "that’s for nothing, now think about if you really did something". Beatings for sitting down too hard, and the next day for sitting down too soft, than the next for sitting down "sarcastically", then the next for not sitting at all. Being hurt for not trusting him, then suckered into trusting and being hurt for trusting him.

It was torture, physical and psychological, daily and in the middle of the night, for years.

And in the middle of this, my oldest brother was molesting me as often as he could sneak into my room to do it. He’s 7 years older and began when he was about 13.

My WH had no idea, and this disclosure came out during this last year. WH pulled back on completing his full confession, believing there was only so much I could take. Honestly, I am kind of thinking about this and maybe it has spared me in a way, because I am in a better frame of mind at this point.

Truthfully, I had thought at the time of the affair with the neighbor that he might have been messing around, but I thought it was with a different woman.

As far as this disclosure goes, today I feel a bit better about it, because what was happening was that I knew in my gut that there was more. I kept telling him I knew he was lying, that there was more, I couldn’t stand waiting for the other shoe to drop, and that I was going to have to leave because I just couldn’t live this way anymore. He knew I was going to leave, and that I knew him well enough to know he was still lying.

We talked nearly 36 hours straight. A lot of stuff has been done.

Ink,

Sorry, I think I didn’t answer your question.

What has he done.

He has answered my questions, honestly, repeatedly, even the same questions over and over and over. Patiently and without complaint.

He has confessed the truth, with the exception of the single affair, withheld for reasons I described above, which I believe may have some legitimacy. I am not sure, but there is a broader context in play anyway.

He has read every book with me. We have done readings and homework together in the evenings, and he has not wavered. He has brought readings to me to discuss, and given me his insights and talked about things he sees that he now understands he has done in the past that he never viewed as "affair risk" but now realizes are the very things that led into his affairs.

He stopped all use of anything remotely porn or porn-adjacent. If I say I don’t even like it, he blocks it.

He stopped staying in his office until he was ready to go to bed. He now joins me every evening after work. He cooks, does the dishes, talks with me, and we enjoy an activity, conversation, or movie/show before bed.

He now touches me again. He had completed avoided me before. He holds me, kisses me, holds my hand, sits by me, and even reaches for me in his sleep.

He looks me in the eye.

He compliments me - including in his emails to his friends - which was never happening during his affair.

He invites me when he has to go out in the field for work.

All of his accounts are open, and I have all passwords. Tracking is on all devices.

He blocked AP, and has discussed his emotions then, and now. He has had IC and participated actively in MC, which he initially did not want to do at all. He was really happy with the MC, and asked me if I wanted to go again since this latest disclosure. He is willing to set it up.

He has volunteered to do a polygraph. He admits he would have failed last time he said he would have done one, because of this.

He has changed his alcohol behavior dramatically. He used to drink daily, is now an occasional drinker.

There has been no contact at all with AP. I have checked. He has made no attempts at all.

He shows genuine remorse. It’s beyond guilt. He feels my pain, I can see it. I get angry at him and lash out, like telling him it took him to be in pain before I got the truth - and his response was that he was in pain because he knew I was, he hurt for me and not himself, and he knew that no matter what happened he had to rip this open now because I was already hurting and I had the right to know. He feels like he hurt me again, but the time to finish the disclosure and begin healing is now, we don’t have enough time, we’re old and if we’re going to renew our love we don’t have time to waste. He may be right - I’m sick, and I don’t want to waste time on games of pride, lies, or protecting anyone.

We have a 49th anniversary next week. We are beginning a path of reconciliation as we step into a fifth decade together.

He’s doing the work in an imperfect way. So am I.

BreakingBad and Tanner,

I thought about her exact words.

I said my WH confessed to having a sexual affair with her about 15 years ago, and I was calling to ask her side of the story because I need to hear the truth.

She said, "What? I don’t remember anything like that. No, I don’t remember anything like that. Was he drunk when he said this?"

So, if someone confronted me and accused me of having an affair with her husband - and I didn’t - my words would NOT be "I don’t remember anything like that".

I would yell

WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT! THAT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED! PUT HIM ON THE PHONE RIGHT NOW, WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL!

But that’s just me. Your mileage may vary.

[This message edited by 5Decades at 5:18 PM, Saturday, June 22nd]