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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:11 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

The start of an EA is really hard to define in my experience. I will say this, with a partner who is already a known cheater, the best way to prevent it is to avoid the "platonic" friendship. No one on one messaging, if he talks to her, it should be in a group message with both you and her partner. No one on one meetings, lunches (dates really) etc. This isn’t toxic or controlling. There is no reason for two people who are in relationships themselves to have exclusive interactions.

EAs are really identified when the EAP becomes the go to person. Instead of talking to you, he talks to her. They begin sharing relationship information/problems. They begin having secrets.

Your partner is really good at manipulating you into thinking your boundaries and need for safety is “toxic”.

I am giving you a warning, keep going the path you are and you are definitely going to have another dday.

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 1:53 PM, Tuesday, July 9th]

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:11 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

Difference between EA and friendship - sharing intimate details about their lives combined with secrecy (from BSes) and sexual attraction.

Another approach emphasizes the secrecy aspect. If the principals are good with a video (with sound) of all their interactions being shown to their BS(es), it's probably a friendship. That needs nuance - I've received confidences from young women. I didn't share them with my W, but I would have been OK if W had seen and heard what I did and said.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:43 PM, Tuesday, July 9th]

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:12 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

Reread that. His conversation with another woman about his partner, you, made her not like you and she calls you names and is making fun of you for not allowing him to text her.

What in the hell? Nothing is acceptable about that. EA or not, that’s not a friend of the relationship at all. If any of my friends talk negatively about my WW, even now, I will immediately end that friendship. A true friend would respect you and say something like "I don’t want to cause any harm to your family, I’ll back off" or something.

I say this gently, but you need to stand up for yourself, and honestly your partner sounds like he is taking massive advantage of you and is basically walking all over you.

But from your description, yes that is at the least a beginning of an EA.
"A shoulder to cry on leads to a bed to lay in"

And again, he has proven very well how he has no issues overstepping boundaries and frankly he doesn’t sound like he has even tried.

For me, the biggest tell-tale sign is secrecy.

Have you had a chance to read all their texts? Did he tell about their lunch dates, meetings etc.? If not, he is likely keeping that to himself because it is special to him, and exists outside of your relationship.

I listened to a talk once (from Terry Real I think), which explained the concept of "concentric circles." In this analogy, a person may flirt with someone they are attracted to (i.e. the biggest circle), which leads to a friendship (i.e., a smaller circle), which leads to a close friendship with secrets (i.e., the smallest circle), which then leads to the center of all the circles which is a romantic relationship.

I think this is useful because it illustrates how most interactions between two people of the opposite sex progress to the same spot (e.g. the center of the circles), and also the ease at which things can progress (e.g., She was just a friend, but the next thing I knew I was alone with them at the bar and we kissed and I didn't mean for it to happen). You may have charted a similar path through the circles yourself when you initially met, I know I did with my wife.

There are always exceptions or variations to this analogy of course. But for me personally, if I meet a woman that I'm attracted to and decide to pursue a friendship with them (i.e., put in the work and emotional energy needed to maintain and grow that relationship) and it is separate from my marriage, i'm choosing a path that only leads to one place. So I just flat out don't pursue those relationships outside my marriage.

He already cheated?

It's normal...and healthy..to make a "no friends of the. Opposite sex,unless it's a mutual friend" boundary after an affair.

This woman isn't your friend. Strike one.

This woman talks bad about you,and your marriage. Strike 2.

He complains to this woman about you. Strike 3.

Oh..and yes, I'd classify this as an emotional affair.

But, you know what? It doesn't matter how I see it,or anyone here sees it. YOU are uncomfortable with it. That's all that matters. It's ok to tell him to NC her.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:12 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

No, it’s not "just" a friendship when overstepping boundaries. Especially when those overstepping leads directly to her being openly hostile towards you. How convenient he forgot to mention that.

My WW told me the same thing, that she understood why I was upset and that they were "just" friends and never going to be anything more. She told me this after sneaking over to APs house that morning while I was at work.

Actions user, not words. Nothing about his actions have shown anything about him being remorseful. Now kudos to him not being alone with her, but he is at best minimizing their relationship.

It was an inappropriate relationship, she openly insulted you and was trying very hard to poach him. Doesn’t matter if it was 1000 years ago that she did that. If he had any respect for you he would have gone NC with her, and not whine or pine over his shoulder being cold because she didn’t have her head on it.

ETA: I just saw the part about he will only text about the kids. I find that an improvement but still dubious. Guess all you can do is see if his actions actually match his words and he continues to keep minimal contact with her.

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 11:29 PM, Tuesday, July 9th]

1) Secrecy
2) Disclosed emotions/attraction
3) Behave differently towards each other when alone than when in a group
4) Tends to share daily information with EAP first, reach out to them more frequently than their SO, definitely more than you would see in a normal healthy friendship. (Almost) No one is saying good morning and good night every day to their friend via text.

Unfortunately it's not uncommon to complain about your spouse to a friend. I don't think that's a distinguishing feature of an EA. Just my 0.02 on that one.

That's quite a coincidence. You post about it, and within days, he has this epiphany.

Suddenly. After all these years.

Almost as if he read your posts.

ThisisFine,

While complaining to like your best boy if you’re the H, or best girlfriend if W about your spouse is a common thing, complaining to an opposite gender, especially to the point where they are openly hostile towards your partner? Naw, that’s not a friendship. That has crossed the line. Especially since it’s all basically lies, or exaggerations at best. That is an EA.

A good friend doesn’t become the wedge between a relationship. An actual "just" friend may even see real abuse or whatever, but they won’t be the one to get involved. Someone who is making the spouse compete for attention from the WS or soon to be WS, the lines are crossed. If someone feels uncomfortable about a relationship their partner has then 9/10 they are absolutely right for having those feelings

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:12 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:13 PM, Tuesday, August 20th]

User,

That is a very good point and honestly i think a very healthy way to approach this. I apologize, i didn’t mean to imply that you were responsible for controlling his behavior. You are right, if he wants to cheat again, he will, and nothing you can do about it.

There’s more to your relationship than what is posted here I know. What I meant more was if you don’t start standing up for your boundaries, whatever it is you need to feel safe, then you are setting yourself up for failure.