SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Really struggling at the moment so bare with me, my thoughts might be all over the place, but I just wanted to run some of these messy thoughts by all of you wise folks on SI.

I've been into self-help for coming up in 20 years, so way, way before DD. However since DD hit I have not really been able to use those things I had learned, and used, and believed helped me. Now that I am starting to slowly dabble in those thoughts after almost 20 months since DD, I am struggling. Because every time I start going down that route, another part of me screams STOP! You are rug sweeping. Let me explain with a few examples:

I read Eckhart Tolle (that is often recommended here once you are out of early days) something like 15 years ago and it's been super helpful in most aspects of my life, has helped me get out of, or stay out of the victim role when the shit has hit the fan. I am not a big fan of Byron Katie but one of her questions to ask yourself in any given situation you feel stuck in in life has helped me so, so many times in life: 'Who would you be, if you could not have that thought?'- it's gotten me unstuck so many times.

But with this situation now, I think I'm actually scared of using those principles? I am so scared of rug sweeping that I get stuck in not-forgiving and not moving on like it's my life's purpose. Every time I feel the pull of those principles, that I KNOW would help me, I resist them. I fight them off. I go pain shopping, or remind myself that it's not ok to be happy, to trust, to accept etc because then that would be letting WH off the hook, that would make me a pushover, weak etc etc.

I listened to a podcast the other day on being stuck after infidelity (it was not blaming the betrayed part in any way it was just to help identify where you might be stuck) that asked similar questions:

1. Can you tell me what getting over it looks like for you?
2. If you were over it what would you be doing and saying differently?
3. If you were over it, what would you no longer be doing?
4. If you were over it, how would you feel on the inside?
5. If you were over it, what would you believe to be true about yourself?
6. If you were over it, what would you believe to be true bout the other person?
7. If you were over it, what would time with that person look like and feel like for you?

I immediately felt a super strong resistance to these questions even though intellectually I know they are valid and letting myself go into them and letting stuff go would be helpful to me.
I know that me being stuck is slowing down our R because I am being an ass to my WH. I am sabotaging R, sometimes knowingly. But I feel ENTITLED to it. I feel like after all the horrible disgusting damage he has done I am entitled to being 'difficult', making R as difficult as possible for him and only if he manages to put up with me being difficult for a long long time, can he, maybe, deserve another chance? Does that make sense? I fear rugsweeping from the perspective that I would be letting myself be used, and fooled, letting my WH off the hook without him having done enough of the work he is supposed to do, but somehow it's also an entitlement issue? I feel entitled to being stuck, angry, bitter, mean.

So sometimes I ask myself, what would happen if I just let it go? I don't think it could even be called real rug sweeping after having 20 months of daily bringing up the affair, MC, IC for both, books, and pods etc. It's just that he hasn't been able to live up to some of the things I felt I needed, not out of not wanting to I think, I genuinely think he doesn't have the capacity for some of the things (he is possibly somewhere on the spectrum and I´ve known that for 20 years). So what would happen, if I just accepted that? If I accepted that he did what he did and this is as good as he's gonna get at doing the work? he's never going to wake up and suddenly become this model WH I seem to be waiting for, but he is already more or less good enough. And since I am not ready to D either, then instead of prolonging my own suffering, what if I decided to try to start moving on? What if I started to allow myself to use these principles and thoughts that have helped me so many times before? I know I would feel better, he most certainly would, and our M would be better for it. But I am so afraid of rug sweeping and being blindsided again and used that I am too scared. So I am keeping myself stuck in an attempt to feel safe, but in fact, it's not making me feel safe, at all.

In some ways I feel like I am not even allowed to forgive, let go, be kind to him yet? Because he hasn't done enough work to deserve it in my mind. And so I punish him, and by that, myself. Because I make myself more miserable as I continue to poison our M with my bitterness and anger, that is justified obviously. But it's not helping. And I think I'm robbing myself of the future I want with him by making it impossible for us to get there. Granted, his actions put us here in the first place. And that's what I tell myself, to justify holding on to my anger. But what if I let it go? Worst case scenario he does it again. But that could happen even if I keep punishing him.

Are we ever allowed as BP to let it go? Just accept, and make the best of it? Accept what they did, accept this is as good a partner they will become, and then let it go?

And since I am not ready to D either

Why not?

I don’t think accepting things as they are means not making changes. It’s not a self-manipulation technique. It’s a way to see the truth of things, and when you do, the next act may be D, or may not. A pulling away or a pulling closer.

It's just that he hasn't been able to live up to some of the things I felt I needed, not out of not wanting to I think, I genuinely think he doesn't have the capacity for some of the things (he is possibly somewhere on the spectrum and I´ve known that for 20 years). So what would happen, if I just accepted that?

You could accept that he is not going to change, that he is who he is, and then divorce him. You could stop wishing for him to be a different husband, and then move on. Surely there are some attributes he could have, where you’d accept that he has them, and then divorce with no qualms?

He lies in the middle between that person and the perfect husband. Which side of the dividing line is he on? You just don’t know yet.

I’d think for the moment note that you can’t accept what he did, that you can’t easily push it aside and move forward, and then accept that. Accept that the churn remains, and bring yourself back to the present and just watch him. Give him your full attention. See the truth. Then decide.

I’ve asked the exact same questions of myself. Thanks for your post.

Wow, I could write this post, almost word by word. And I am 3 years out, but still fell pretty much the same. It is not that I don't want to get over it, but I feel if I manage to, he will get away with murder. And I don't feel comfortable letting him of the hook, not after what he did. I tried answering your 7 questions and all the answers point to me being happier after letting go, except, how can I let go, if he hasn't paid the price. And don't ask me what the price is, the dept is unrepayable, but at the same time I can't just write it off . I am stuck at "he doesn't deserve me letting go".

Additionally, I think I am keeping him at arms length, because I am scared to let him close again. I am sort of detached now, hoping we R, but also accepting the possibility that we may not and I know I can be OK with that. But if I let him close again, if I let myself believe we will be OK, than he can hurt me again. ANd I don't know if I can survive it again.

You are not slowing down R, you are not hurting R. You are not the problem at all. R is not some line of progress with check marks.
You are not sabotaging R.

Healing has to come first. I know it’s thrown around a lot, but it really is true. You have to heal first, and that may take years, and that’s ok. WH doesn’t like it, well too bad, he shouldn’t have cheated. You owe him nothing. Not a smile, not a kind word, nothing. He lost all of that when he decided cheating was his best option. All of that is ok, it’s ok to be cold and distant even at 20 months. Even at 4 years.

You may never be able to heal from it with WH still in your life. That is a reality that many of us don’t want to face or admit, but it’s often the case. Not always of course, but it is important to remind ourselves that infidelity is too much. Or really, how they acted while cheating on you, and how they are treating you now.

If he really wants this marriage, he will accept the state he has created, and he will dig in to himself and fight his hubris to make him someone worthy.

It’s definitely ok to not trust WH, you shouldn’t at all. That will take a long long time.

Give yourself grace, i really can’t recommend enough to stop bashing yourself for lack of progress in R. You can’t really even start R if you’re not healed and strong enough to do so.

You are allowed to do whatever works best for you. You can’t change or control him, you can’t make him see the light. He will or he won’t. Truthfully most don’t, because that requires pain, being humble, accepting that they are the bad guy and really messed up. A cheater already proved that is too much for them, and instead of facing themselves, of being comfortable with being uncomfortable, they would rather be selfish.

Letting go and accepting doesn’t mean forgiveness, but it probably means a level of detachment. It’s like being bit by a dog, afterwards you will always feel uncomfortable around dogs and will keep a distance to keep you safe.

Once you let go and heal on your own terms, then maybe see if you can reach a place to rebuild the marriage.

Two broken people will only make a broken relationship.

he's never going to wake up and suddenly become this model WH I seem to be waiting for

If this is true, how long would you be willing to wait?

And

What does this "model husband" look like? Do you believe he could be it, or, truthfully, can anyone ever be it?

Agree with HNHF.

The problem is that there is still great pain from this trauma you have experienced and you want to force a direction because it’s exhausting to be in the pain for so long.

You are a self help person- you have probably read what we resist persists. Healing takes years. Most of the people I have seen come though here and stay really didn’t feel they had reached that until at least year four, often five and beyond.

Take your time. Instead of trying to force it ask yourself what you can do nice fire yourself today. Engage in new hobbies, make new friends, work on yourself in other ways. Be selfish with what you want. Go to therapy if you think it might help. Keep a journal and let out that stream of conciousness.

Healing isn’t forcing yourself. Healing is slowly allowing yourself to feel other emotions. Be gentle with yourself, easy with yourself. Treat yourself well. Do things that make you lose track of time.

Grace is not an easy thing to give, and rarely do I see anyone ready to give it at 20 months. Don’t try and let it go. Try and give yourself periods of time where you engross yourself in something you love and let it go for that period of time. You will find over time that you will get better at these breaks and eventually they get longer.

I don’t think it means divorce or reconciliation. It means getting yourself some triage, some rest, letting a little bit of joy in your day. And as you develop this new relationship with yourself the marriage will either start to fall away as a need to stay in it or there will be some reengagement and rebuilding. Right now just focus on what you need to start soothing your traumatized brain.

I found Pema Chadron’s "when things fall apart" to be a great source and some of what I am saying comes from there. Be gentle with yourself and God Bless.

I agree with others that you are still young in your timeframe, and this all just takes longer than we want it to. Do you feel like things are at least different than 6 months ago, or do you feel truly stuck in time? Shitty but different is probably progress. Stuck is scarier, IMO.

I saw you interacted with what I posted to Groot and I could have written the second part of that post to you here. What we as the betrayed are forced to do (if we pursue R) is refashion our understanding of reality based off the testimony of our betrayer. It’s a very very strange thing to do if you step back and think about it. But staying with a cheater at all is a strange thing, yet many of us do it. I think our brains rightfully protest and guard us from just accepting falsehoods into our understanding of reality. But if we are going to R, I think a degree of trust must be extended on credit to the WS. So we borrow them some credibility, we take their words as truthiness, and we try to calm our chaotic brains. And if they choose to lie and betray again, well then, 🖕🖕 them.

I think you are doing well for where you are at. Totally agree with hikingout, accept your current state with grace and just keep walking your healing path.

Miserylikescompany

I too could of wrote your post and I often think along these same lines. I also feel "entitled" to pretty much whatever the F it is that I want to do or not want to do - I feel it comes with the territory of betrayal.

Just like you, I purposely sabotage the efforts of R in anyway I can think of. I tell myself, "I’m not going to make this road easy for you, you are going to pay profusely for what you’ve done." To some extent, being cruel and cold towards him with the use of my actions, words and daily reminders of what he’s done to his family is a small price to pay for the profuse damage he’s caused. I can see he is broken and continues to break because I don’t give him much acknowledgment or credit these days … and honestly, I really should be making more of an effort to show some other kind of emotion towards him other than anger and hate. I struggle with the thought of letting those walls down to show him care, compassion or even love … after what he’s done, I don’t think he’s deserving of my kindness and I’m not wanting to give him the satisfaction of letting him know I miss him and want him back in my life.

Sometimes I feel like I have come to "peace" with what’s happened, I know I can’t change the past, but I do have a say in what my future looks like. I know I don’t want to be "bitter" forever and I don’t want to have a "victim" mentality forever either. Unfortunately, I’m kinda stuck here right now though and I think that’s ok. I’m feeling my feelings and processing it all with each day that passes. I’m not as far out as you, but at 9 months I know I’m in a better place physically, mentally and emotionally then 9 months ago - so I consider this progress, a win for me.

I’ve also asked myself what if I just "let it go" and start focusing on rebuilding my marriage and life with my H … wouldn’t that be better than hating him everyday and bringing up the past? While I believe he’s "learned his lesson"and would never step out on me or his children again, I can’t be too sure of that. That’s why I’m more comfortable with my walls up then down - I don’t want to show him my vulnerability.

More work from both him and I needs to happen before good days can come. I have set timeframes in my head where I will do some self reflection about where I’m at, where I think he’s at and make decisions as I hit these invisible marks. I’m curious about this 2-5 year timeline they say it takes to heal from infidelity. I wonder what this might look like for me and where along this timeline I will fall - it’s terrifying because I can see myself on the end of this healing spectrum.

I think to some degree we learn to accept what’s happened and accept the fact that the past can’t be undone. Hopefully, in time, we focus more positive efforts on the future, then being stuck dwelling on the past.

Are we ever allowed as BP to let it go? Just accept, and make the best of it? Accept what they did, accept this is as good a partner they will become, and then let it go?

You can do whatever you want. I know that sounds flippant, but this is your life and you get to choose your recovery path.

Do you think he understands the magnitude of the pain that he has caused and will never do it again - to you or to himself? Has he become a trustworthy partner, in your estimation, or does it feel more like he's gone through the motions to appease you? These are the most important considerations, I think, when deciding whether to try to let it go. You need to feel as safe as possible in your relationship with him.

I'm so grateful that we started seeing a terrific MC before DDay and, because of what I was learning with him, I never "allowed" myself to rage at my H. That's not to say that I didn't get on the crazy train and rage at him, but I never felt entitled to treat him like shit just because he had treated me like shit. I wanted the marriage to heal, and I wanted both of us to heal. I couldn't heal if I was being vengeful. It would hurt ME to do that. It's hurting you. You're sabotaging yourself because that's not who you want to be. You wouldn't have spent 20 years on self-help reading Tolle if that was who you are.

I think it could be a control thing. Like, if you stay angry enough, he won't dare to do it again. But that's a shitty way to live. You can decide to face forward and stop lashing out, and to deal with it then if he messes up again. That's not rugsweeping. That's self-care. That's choosing a peaceful path for your recovery. Do no harm, but take no shit.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 5:39 PM, Friday, July 12th]

Do no harm, but take no shit.

Now there is an idea for a new tattoo

I feel entitled to being stuck, angry, bitter, mean.

I go back to the idea of just accepting that you’re going to be stuck, angry, bitter and mean. Don’t struggle against it, just accept it. Even tell your husband hey I’m sorry, but you’re just gonna have to live with me being randomly stuck, angry, bitter and mean. Apologies in advance, but that’s how I’m rolling right now.

The acceptance kneecaps the struggle. Seems weird, the idea of accepting something you can’t accept, but again it undercuts the suffering that comes from trying to be in one state and being in another.

My wife has a horse, and one time while getting ready to ride it, it stepped on my foot. I’m pretty sure we made eye contact, me and the horse, and then I started pushing on it to try to get it off my foot. That resulted in the horse leaning in towards me, crushing my foot even more. The horse was perfectly happy with this activity as long I was as I was willing to play the game, just leaning in on that foot and maybe even smiling a little. Eventually, I took the carrot in my pocket and reached out with my arm to the other side of the horse, and she stepped off my foot. Enlightenment had occurred. 🙂

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 7:38 PM, Friday, July 12th]

As someone who can relate a great deal to the original post — as in my mindfulness and all my previous tools to tackle adversity, were all wiped out on dday. Additionally, my faith, my focus, even my love of music could not distract me from the trauma I was trying to recover from.

I am at peace now, it just took a while.

I do believe that somewhere down the road, misery does become a choice.

However, that timeframe varies a great deal, based on how long it takes to get your feet back underneath you.

Year one for me was shock and awe, I was literally dizzy trying to figure out what had happened and what I should do next. Year two was anger for the most part. A very well earned anger that had to be processed. Year three is when I started to heal, started to get my bearings, found what aspects of my pain I was ready to let go and what elements of my healing needed more work.

I read so many books. I posted here a few thousand times, some vents and a lot of questions.

My advice for today?

Be kind to you.

Give yourself time and some room and you will find your way through.

Once you heal some more, you can then determine if you want to offer your spouse a last chance or not.

Rugweeping only happens if you ignore what happened and do not process any of the pain you are feeling now. I don’t think you’re in danger of pretending the trauma isn’t real.

Your spouse does have to earn some good will by healing their issues and caring about the pain they caused. Healing in parallel while trying to figure out how to move the M forward is all uphill, it is a very difficult road.

First things first, you need to focus more on you for now and figure out what YOU want. That will eventually illuminate a path forward.

Thanks for all your thoughtful replies, so many thoughts on here that are such gold nuggets to take with me.

And since I am not ready to D either

Why not?

The easy and hard answer to that question is, I don't want to. For a number of reasons. Because I never wanted out of this marriage, I never wanted anyone else, and for some bloody reason, I still don't want anyone else more than I want him. Because I've been with him for more than half my life, and to me that is still sacred. I come from a childhood with divorces (multiple), half siblings, alcoholism, drugs, violence etc etc. And one of my life's purposes has been to build a different life for me and my. three kids than the one I grew up in. So preserving that unit, is still important to me and I'm not willing to let that go, yet at least. It's not a religious reason for me, just something very important to me personally. I want to grow old with the man I've spent my entire adult life with and who is the father of my children. I want to still be part of his extended family, I want the whole package. I just never wanted it with infidelity in it. And so that's the part I'm struggling to incorporate. And love, I guess. I still love him. Although much less and in a very different way than prior to DD. My admiration and respect for him is gone, and I no longer look at our life together and feel pride and joy over it. I hope that will return over the years if me manage to R.

If this is true, how long would you be willing to wait?

The answer to this is I don't know. For now, I'm still here but I count on the fact that if things don't get any better for me emotionally, at some point I will hopefully just know that I'm done. When that'll be if ever, I don't know.

What does this "model husband" look like? Do you believe he could be it, or, truthfully, can anyone ever be it?

I suppose all the things described typically here on SI and in all the books is what I want. I mean he has done some of it, and he checks the most important boxes - NC at work, (applying for new jobs since day 1 although no luck as of yet), tracking, complete transparency with all devices, IC and MC, read books, watched videos, changed his approach to women in general since he learned about the slippery slop he is less friendly in platonic relationships across the board etc.
Things he still isn't really able to do still is handle my pain, triggers etc without going into shame himself which means shutting down as he is extremely avoidant. Not get defensive (sometimes he manages not to but others no). He hasn't managed to make me feel safe yet, even though there have been no major red flags at all. No TT that I know of so far, no relapses that I know of etc. I just dont' feel he is remorseful enough and 'gets it' completely whatever that means. But I'm not exactly sure there would be anything that would be enough, because let's face it, this isn't really fixable. So I think it's mor about me accepting what he does do and focusing less on the few things he doesn't.

I think it could be a control thing. Like, if you stay angry enough, he won't dare to do it again. But that's a shitty way to live. You can decide to face forward and stop lashing out, and to deal with it then if he messes up again. That's not rugsweeping. That's self-care. That's choosing a peaceful path for your recovery. Do no harm, but take no shit.

This is exactly it. It's a badly-functioning way of trying to gain back control. Partly to try to control him like you say, and also, if I don't let ny guard down, if he does it again or if this turns out to be false R, I think I won't hurt as much if I never really let my guard down anyway. It's like I'm walking around expecting the other shoe to drop all the time even though I haven't seen any sign of it so far. This is exactly it.

So I took a couple of days to think about the answer to my own question. We have our summer holidays coming up. several weeks of vacation together with the family. I think I've decided to give myself a break from the suffering over the holidays. To 'let it go' for a few weeks. Call it temporary rug-sweeping or fake it until you make it. I will try to not bring up the A as much, or as little as possible, I will try to not indulge myself in spiralling and try to keep my spirals as short-lived as possible, and really try to enjoy family life, extend temporary trust for a few weeks, let myself feel love, not question his authenticity in my head when he shows and tells me he loves me etc. Just try to let myself let my guard down a few weeks. For me. Not for him or the M but FOR ME. Because I deserve to enjoy my vacation, I deserve happiness. And at the same time, it's a way for me to experiment on how changing my own behaviour might change how I feel about him and the M. If nothing feels better for it then at least I know that.