SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Wondering how other people feel when they see scenes of intimacy on TV or movies.

It seems like the Betrayed Spouse (with time) develops some tiny amounts of acceptance toward the basic facts. But, because we don’t get too specific on the physical details, it is somewhat sanitized. You put your hand here or there. You put your mouth here or there. That lasted x amount of time. It stopped. You left. All of that we could maybe get a little desensitized to with time.

But, when we see intimate moments on screen isn’t it a whole different story? It seems like intense emotions are always involved. But, we aren’t supposed to talk about those things right? Disclosure stops at the bedroom door?(or at least you just get the facts not the "color"). Without knowing how much intensity of feeling there was how do we know what we are supposed to accept?

I think what triggered this with me was seeing a couple on screen lying back on a bed after sex. They have that closeness that only happens then. My spouse supposedly didn’t have sex. But even if that is true there was physical intimacy and thus it feels like a video of what actual happened would show that same closeness. And that is something that I have not accepted. I have accepted that they did the things, but not the way they might have behaved in the moments before and after. Because I don’t have those details.

If I ask for those details wont I end up with mind movies? Ugh

Would love to hear how others view these types of situations in their lives. Would love waywards input too.

Disclosure stops at the bedroom door?

Only if you say it does.

Here is the way I approached the balance of getting enough information to assist in quieting my mind while not getting more than I needed for that purpose that would then come with mind movies and new unnecessary pain. I was patient. I asked questions that were burning on my mind, ones that I knew I had to know. And while my first impulse was to just keep snowballing on the questions, I kept that in check and waited to see how those answers sat with me. Did they satisfy what I needed to know, or was my mind still demanding more before it could give the "All Clear" signal?

The goal here is your peace of mind, my friend. That is the ultimate aim, IMHO. All temporary discomfort and worries about inducing shame in the WS, accusations of just being taudry, those are meaningless in comparison of the peace of mind that you have been robbed of and you deserve back. If you are this far out and clearly have shown restraint in what you’ve asked, but you are still haunted by the "what if’s", then I say ask, and fuck "disclosure stops at the bedroom door". I think that is bullshit that therapists say to avoid discomfort and WS heartily agree with as a shield. But if it leaves you haunted, it’s bullshit, don’t accept it. My experience is that mind movies tend to be temporary, and that seems to be what most people report here to. I advise trusting your self to ask what you need to know to quiet your mind and trust also that you will be able to handle that information.

I agree with ink- you can and should ask anything you want. Be discerning.

A couple of other quick thoughts:

It depends on the people in the affair and circumstances. I did not feel particularly close to the AP during those times. Affairs are often based on the deep need of validation and being believed for the role you are trying to portray. So, for me, it was anxiety over my own performance.

It’s hard to understand if you haven’t had one how much of it is self-adulation. I didn’t feel the peace and joy and love I do when I am with my spouse or in past situations when I was truly in love with the person.

So it can and does look differently at least some of the time. I don’t think it makes it better for the bs, I am simply stating it may or may not be like you imagine. It’s horrific to think about regardless, but I think in affairs it’s more often an artificial intimacy between two people doing a lot of lying and pretending, so the thought process doesn’t always line up with normal love. This is why those sorts of relationships that start as an affair have a 97 percent failure rate. I think there are people who do fall in love, but they are represented in that 3 percent.

If I ask for those details wont I end up with mind movies? Ugh

Do you have mind movies now? Made-up ones? I could either make up the scene in my head or ask the questions and know exactly what happened. Choose your poison. (Did you know that some people don't have mind movies? I find that fascinating!)

Our MC told H to honestly answer any and all questions that I had, and he told me to make sure I wanted the answers before I asked. Perfect.

I chose to dissect the heck out of it and ask everything because I didn't want there to be any intimate little secret moments between them, no cute little nicknames or inside jokes. I conducted a full-blown clinical autopsy under bright lights. I wanted those memories tainted by having to relay them to me. I made him cringe. She may be walking around thinking that she still has little secrets with him, but I know that she doesn't, and that's comforting to me.

I'm an insurance agent and when people ask me what they should do (reduce coverage to keep premiums low or pay extra for top notch coverage) I tell them "We all have different comfort levels. Do whatever helps you sleep at night." Same thing with this. Think it through and then ask for what you need.

WS responding

For many years after d-day I denied and minimised. I was defensive and often resorted to intimidation to be able to avoid conversations like this. I have recently changed this and am working on my empathy and being less selfish. However this is my story:

I minimised all aspects of my affairs, especially the sex. After the denials, I admitted to missionary position only. The sex was awful, did not last long, I left immediately after etc etc....I think these are the usual levels of bullshit a wayward will tell their BS.

These minimisations were entirely selfish. I have read and did even say I was "protecting" BS by not giving details. This, for me at least, was a lie. I did not want to be in an uncomfortable position, I did not want to discuss my affairs anyway, never mind the intimate acts. I did not want to put triggers into our sex life. (Some of the detail I gave caused issues with performing these acts between BS and myself). However in the early stages I was not empathetic, I was selfish, my thoughts were with me and not BS. I would get annoyed if BS was triggered. I did not want BS to get angry with me or upset when we were trying to initiate sex, I knew she had mind movies and I resented these as they caused further upset and delayed BS "moving on"

I knew about having to be honest, I knew that BS was not going to "move on", I knew that mind movies were crippling (hey I had my own and they knocked me back), I knew others had benefited from open and honest dialogue. I knew so much about what I needed to do, yet I chose not to do it, to avoid feeling uncomfortable. I told myself that if I said things, it would adversely impact the marriage, pulling from experience of BS getting upset when new things were divulged, I ignored that the marriage could have moved forwards as this went against my primary thoughts of self protection. Even reading SI, I looked for differences in other BSs stories and used these differences as a justification to myself that their experience did not apply to me.

I appreciate now, the damage this has done. That my BS wanted to know details to help her, not to give her ammunition to fire back at me.

Watching TV programmes is a massive trigger for us both. Certainly when infidelity is raised, but also when there is a happy moment. I have thought that this was because I have ruined any happy moments we had in the past, but after reading this today, it triggered me. I am rethinking and trying to be more empathetic to BS who had for a long time filled any gaps with her own thoughts. I have previously not recognised these fully and at times dismissed them as negative self talk. So once again I have to "actually listen" to what my BS is saying and support her when these thoughts appear. We have worked on dealing with sexual anxiety, it still needs work and when BS is suffering from them, I need to be more intuitive because just asking BS to tell me when she is suffering is not good enough on my part. I cannot assume all is well when we are sexually active.

It is true to say, if I trigger, the BS is certainly triggering.

As others have said, you need to know what you need to know.

It is wrong for WS to decided what you need to know. I struggle when I read a BS who says they were protecting BS by not saying anything. I immediately think this is a huge minimisation and they are lying to protect themselves. Of course this is based on my actions and I cannot project myself onto them...BUT...I still struggle.

It is important for you to be in control of the information you receive. Is full disclosure of every detail necessary? You decide yes or no. Does disclosure stop at the bedroom door? You decide yes or no. BS tried, in the past, to discuss mind movies. I was not receptive to this. Unfortunately, now that I am in a better place and more receptive, the damage has been done and BS and I need to work on this again for her to feel able to tell me about them. I have likely caused a lot of damage psychologically with my past behaviour.

If I ask for those details wont I end up with mind movies? Ugh

I will say probably, but getting them out in the open may be beneficial and lead to more connection with you and WS.

Mind movies for me were crippling for quite some time. Initially I wanted to know every detail. Ultimately, what I’ve come to accept is, they had a full blown affair, they met up, they had sex. It really doesn’t matter to what degree the actions took, it’s bad either way. I will say that my mind probably made up more intense versions of how things went down than what actually did, but honestly, at this stage, what does it really matter. They crossed the line and any way you look at it it was just a shit thing to do. It has taken me a long time to get past the mind movies, I don’t really have them much any more because it’s more like a rerun now and I get bored with seeing a rerun now days. The thing the helped me most was learning not to be codependent, finding my own peace of who I am and what I represent. No matter what happens with my WW and I from here on out, I’ll be just fine. But I do demand respect moving forward, not just from her but from anyone I associate with. It’s a tough row to hoe but give it time, it will get better and less crippling.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 9:57 PM, Thursday, August 29th]

Ink: Yeah, I can see that what you are saying is true. I don’t even think he could really listen well enough to the question-without freaking out-to honestly answer. It is not even a specific detail I think I am after. I think I want to know if it was tender or passionate. Just writing that I realized it could actually have been both. Yuk. Then again, both would be like Nirvana so I probably couldn’t have gotten him to stop. I guess I will ask. Neither is good. Both are bad. But not knowing seems to just make this question linger too long.I will be sure not to worry myself over him experiencing shame. I didn’t think I did care. But in the moment when we are talking I think I do start to feel badly for him. And then he turns around and does or says something so insensitive I can’t believe I was trying to make it easier for him.

Hiking: thank you for the observations you gave. Many of the things you’ve described very much sound like him. He cared about her thinking well of him. He doesn’t say that but I can tell. He has brought up repeatedly feeling angry at her about needing to get home to see her kids on one occasion. He thought that was unfair because she was always getting irritated with him because he had to come straight home to me after work. It sounds like his ego was chaffing. He’s been consistent that they didn’t discuss their spouses because it would burst the bubble that they were doing nothing wrong. He also has claimed many times that he was trying to show off to her what a perfect life he had, which apparently included a happy marriage and kids. In the beginning he was trying to show off to her about our vacations. By the end he was hiding our weekend trips away so as not to piss her off. Why the change I wonder? Anyway, yes, you’re right, I think he was more focused on himself than the connection, other than the partner in lies camaraderie.

Sacred: I don’t think I do have mind movies now. I think my brain is so terrified of the pain that I keep it in still lifes. I have snapshot pictures that don’t move. That might be because he has filtered out the details that would connect the pictures. Or maybe its me. Even just trying to picture it right now to try to answer your question just makes my brain shut down. And makes me want to barf. You are right about taking away any fondness for the details from them. I have noticed that happen when he’s been questioned in depth about something. After that whenever we talk about it again a different day he ends up making this grossed out face when talking about it instead of the mesmerized face he started with.

Bulcy, thank you for your honesty. If I understood what you were saying…you hadn’t thought that we aren’t just thinking about you with the AP when there Is a cheating scene, it’s any kind of intimacy seen. You want to turn to your partner every time and say so was that it. Was that what it was like? But what a dumb question right? Because since it always will not have been EXACTLY the same, they can always say no and still be honest at the same time. It is making me perseverate about whether all the little quirks of kissing you see are just universal. Screen images always make kissing look so blissful. It definitely isn’t blissful for us anymore. Sex is fine but the kissing just completely trips me up now.

Coping: i guess you are right. I need to get to the point of thinking I’ll be fine. I definitely don’t think that now and I need to figure out why. It is so hard to picture being alone after so many years together. I was just a kid the last time I was really alone. But thats the path. For now it is as you said. There is no version that is better. Is tender worse or passionate worse. They both suck. It sounds like it was not passionate. I can’t even say the word for what that would mean it was. Yes I guess you’re right it just sucks either way. The thing that made it sound not passionate was genuine shock on his part when I was yelling about them sticking their tongues down each others throats. It was like he was shocked that I had been picturing it that way all this time. I think it was after that conversation that I started perseverating about the kissing have been-ugh—tender. Seriously that sucks.

Also leaving out one part. I have googled boss has sex with secretary and the images were super not helpful. Super glamorized. Super upsetting. Soooooooo sooooo soooo upsetting. Now I’m gonna go throw up.. and cry alot alot

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 5:30 AM, Friday, August 30th]

Now I’m gonna go throw up.. and cry alot alot

Oh friend, do take care. 🥺😢

You have a right to know whatever information you want/need to know.

I had actual photos of them in bed together and nudes they sent themselves in between. Full frontal and quasi pornographic. I didn't have to imagine - I got it all in my face. And one w/his D in her face so...

Years out, I still have mind movies. Over the years they have lessened - or at least the intensity of them did. And my reactions aren't quite as strong. But they happen and I have to deal with them. That's in my control. How I handle them. I've gotten better at it. But at times I still have to throw up and cry.

I don't think there is a "good" way to have information. Those who see it can't unsee it - and those who haven't seen it want to know what it looks like. Damned f you do, damned if you don't.

Now...take care of youself. Thorwing up and crying a lot is purging your system. Do it - get that poison out. Then stand up. And keep fucking going. Baby steps.

Thank you hikingout for your very helpful explanation especially in reference to the validation and self adulation components of the WS journey into infidelity. I ran your observations by my WW this afternoon, and she concurred that both featured highly in her first affair which she now sees as performative.

Ended up feeling much better the next day. The phase passed. Feeling more content with things now. Thank you for the support and guidance. Very much appreciated.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 3:58 PM, Sunday, September 1st]

❤️

Most of the time - affairs are fairyland stuff - out of touch with real life - just a snapshot of something going on - no real relationship other than FXXX-Buddies stuff. Ya - "I'm in luv" - for the next 3 minutes

I am always asking myself why people take pictures of THEMselves doing 'sex' stuff?

You need pictures for your future remembrances?
You need pictures to post on your Facebook page?
You need pictures to send to "friends and neighbors?"

WTF?

I agree about being baffled about pictures. I read that 60% of adults have sexted and I found that kinda shocking. I remember taking a Polaroid of myself in a bathing suit for my boyfriend when I was 15, but I can’t imagine doing that now. I am in some ways kind of impressed that some grown ups are doing that. Maybe I’ve just internalized the youth-centric media. I wonder if men are attracted to women my age. In some ways it was a blessing my husbands AP was 4 years older than us. At least I know he’s down with older women.