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Thanks, everyone, for the replies and your thoughts on all of this! I'm not super active on here, but I'm trying to get more active.

I spoke with my therapist yesterday and she actually agreed that it might be better to only discuss it three days a week, so I'm not feeding into my anxiety (I've had depression and anxiety since I was a teenager). BUT, she said that if something urgent happens that I need to be able to speak about it immediately. Meaning, if my wife is doing something that makes me uncomfortable, I can discuss it. My wife understood and agreed with this.

So, I guess now I just have to process everything that happened and try to somehow get through this.

Honestly, I'm just tired of the story changing. People call it trickle truthing, or whatever. But I'm so tired of it. Stories changing constantly (it happened yesterday!). Sigh. This sucks.

My buddy keeps telling me, I'll never know the whole truth. And I just have to accept that. Maybe I can in time... But right now, I want the whole truth. Will that change over time? :\

I agree you'll never get the whole truth, but you're getting changing stories. That's not truth. OK ... with changing stories you could say there's no way to distinguish truth from lie even if she does say something that's true; but that leaves you not knowing what to believe, which is a lousy and untenable position to be in.

I don't think I could stay M unless I thought my W was honest with herself and me. I still ask questions. All of her answers for the last just under 14 years have been consistent. I've gotten more details, but the details have all fit with what W has already told me. Believe me, I asked LOTS of questions. So I think you'd be doing yourself a great, grave disservice if you accept non-D while she lies.

Have you reached the end of your rope? Just before you do, you can see if an ultimatum works: 'If you don't start telling the truth and only the truth, I will D you.' But you have to mean that for it to work.

My heart goes out to you. My W came clean on d-day, and I think she's been totally honest since then, and even with that, life was very painful for a couple of years. I know you're in pain. I also know you can process the pain out of your body, and you'll be glad when you do it.

My buddy keeps telling me, I'll never know the whole truth. And I just have to accept that.

I say there IS a way to get at least much more truth than you have now. Muster the courage to ask her to do the following:

1. Have her WRITE a complete timeline of every interaction she had with OM. Every feeling, who initiated what, what was said. If you want sexual details (most dudes do), then demand she include all that. Give her no more than a week to compete this.

2. She gives you a copy. Have her also read this timeline to you. Watch her closely as she does.

3. Then tell her you need her to sit for a polygraph which will confirm she’s been truthful, and has not skipped anything relevant. Ask her immediately if she needs to augment her timeline.

4. FOLLOW THROUGH with the polygraph. You get only a handful of yes/no questions you can have the examiner ask. One will be "Is the timeline 100% accurate and complete?". ALSO have her asked "Since you and OP were ‘exclusive’ as a couple, have you had ANY sexual contact with another man, besides OP and OM" (the examiner will define what ‘sexual contact’ is). Also have her asked "Has there been ANY contact with OM since Dday" (again the examiner will define ‘contact’).

At the minimum, doing the above will give you more confidence you have something approaching the full story. I hope you have the courage to follow through, and get the answers you rightly need.

I really disagree with the 3 day a week thing. Please check out Betrayal Bind Book. Check out Jake Porters work, specifically couples centered recovery model. Also, read "How to help your spouse heal from Your affair. Friend ...not being able to talk IMO will only lengthen the recovery time.

For me, the more we talked, the better. Of course some times a break may be needed due to emotions, but if emotions were kept to reasonable level, talking could continue. Seek God ...He can help you navigate and truly heal this.

Accepting that you'll never know the full truth is the shit sandwich you have to eat in order to reconcile. We've all eaten a little bit of shit at the minimum.

In your OP, you said you won't throw away a 17 year M over 3 months of cheating. That's not what you'd be doing. You'd be ending your M because your W continues lying to you.

*****

Member to member -

Accepting that you'll never know the full truth is the shit sandwich you have to eat in order to reconcile.

T can't imagine knowing 'the full truth' about much of anything in life. The best one can get to is thinking one knows enough to make a good decision. And if you think R requires eating a shit sandwich, don't R.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:12 PM, Friday, November 15th]

I don't think I could stay M unless I thought my W was honest with herself and me. I still ask questions. All of her answers for the last just under 14 years have been consistent. I've gotten more details, but the details have all fit with what W has already told me. Believe me, I asked LOTS of questions. So I think you'd be doing yourself a great, grave disservice if you accept non-D while she lies.

I started out asking a lot of questions. Then it slowly became overwhelming for her, so we stopped talking constantly. Then her therapist suggested the three days thing. I dunno, I'm so beaten down that I don't know what's correct anymore.

An interesting bit... While we were in the 'divorce stage' (where she lied about being unhappy, instead of confessing to the affair), she kept saying that she wanted to talk about divorcing me, but she was going to wait until next year to do it, because my sister passed away in late December of last year. So she didn't want to put all of this one me, before that.

Well, because she told me that, I'm in this weird mindset where I'm basically begging her not to leave, instead of her begging me not to leave. She keeps telling me she's not going anywhere, but it's seriously messing with my ability to process all of this.

And every time I get upset with her, she gets defensive. She's made a few different remarks about how she's feeling and I've basically, for all intents and purposes, told her that her feelings don't matter right now. She doesn't like that, but that's just how I feel. She betrayed me repeatedly. This is MY TIME to heal. She should be begging me to not walk out the door. She should be apologizing to ME every day about the affairs. She should listen and answer any and all questions I have, as I have them. All of this is just so f*cked up. I'm beyond tired and beaten down.

I use this analogy because it fits cheating. Suppose your wife shot you. It was unbelievably painful. When you ask why she keeps changing the answers. You know you were shot. You know who did it and she still has the gun. Exactly when would you be over it? You would be talking about it nonstop. She did an injury to you by her behavior and then brought in a third party to tell you to basically shut up except three times a week. Does that make sense to you? If you were still talking about it all the time a couple of years later we would be telling you that you are stuck and need help. I really don’t get the reasoning of making the innocent victim somehow become the responsible party in how to proceed. You were/are the victim.

I use this analogy because it fits cheating. Suppose your wife shot you. It was unbelievably painful. When you ask why she keeps changing the answers. You know you were shot. You know who did it and she still has the gun. Exactly when would you be over it? You would be talking about it nonstop. She did an injury to you by her behavior and then brought in a third party to tell you to basically shut up except three times a week. Does that make sense to you? If you were still talking about it all the time a couple of years later we would be telling you that you are stuck and need help. I really don’t get the reasoning of making the innocent victim somehow become the responsible party in how to proceed. You were/are the victim.

I completely get and understand everything you wrote. All of it. It makes complete and total sense.

BUT, For some reason I'm in this weird head space that I feel I'm going to push her away if I try to push for things that I want to happen. I think it's the head games that she played with me before she confessed to the affair. It's really messing me up. I'm in therapy, to hopefully work through all of this, but it's going to take a long time. I really do appreciate everyone's advice. I just can't get over this fear that if I stand up for myself that she'll walk away.

And yes, I've been a push over my whole life. I'm discussing that with my therapist. I have some deep seeded issues that I have to work through. Abandonment being one of them.

I promise I'm not reading what everyone is saying and just being like 'they're wrong' or anything. It's just how messed up I am on the inside that's keeping me in this weird zone. And, honestly, I hate it. It makes trying to heal a PITA.

You need to run, not walk, to an expert in EMDR. It is one way to dig into childhood traumas and shine sunlight on them. They lose their power. It is short term. It does not take more than a few sessions and then talk therapy takes over to figure out how to use the knowledge you have.

You also might want a personal trainer. Not for exercise but for help making decisions. Can’t think of the title but I know someone who does this and has helped several college kids to get back on track. Yours might be to help you work on giving yourself permission to demand better treatment.

You need to run, not walk, to an expert in EMDR. It is one way to dig into childhood traumas and shine sunlight on them. They lose their power. It is short term. It does not take more than a few sessions and then talk therapy takes over to figure out how to use the knowledge you have.

You also might want a personal trainer. Not for exercise but for help making decisions. Can’t think of the title but I know someone who does this and has helped several college kids to get back on track. Yours might be to help you work on giving yourself permission to demand better treatment.

Thanks for bringing EMDR to my attention! I will do some more research on that and look into it in my local area.

Thank you for reading what I wrote, about how I am, and not attacking me or making me feel bad for it. I truly appreciate your words and your ideas. I'll look into a personal trainer (life coach).

Thank you!

You are very welcome.

And sometimes the trauma zaps your brain and changes the brain chemistry - and you literally can't think. Please give yourself some grace and practice self-care.

I had several questions that I had written down, and every once in a while I'd pull them out, ask again and check the answers. Any discrepancy was a discussion. You're not alone in the question stage, nor the trickle truth stage.

What I did was I sat down and ran things through my memory. Was XWH happy when we were doing X? I don't really know. Was I happy when we were doing X? Yes, I was happy or no, I was miserable because of XYZ. I adjusted to knowing that I wouldn't know the truth but I could focus on my truth and what I knew to be true. You can get to the place where you know your truth, but it takes healing and time.

The best thing you can do for yourself is to get to a place where you are ok with divorce. Where if you don’t get what you need from her, you can just leave. When they know it isnt a real possibility that you’ll do it most WS will drag their feet and lean towards rug sweeping.

Have you explored your level of codependency with your therapist?

I dunno, I'm so beaten down that I don't know what's correct anymore.

You can take a break from this. You're probably making decisions about decades of your future. The decisions are important, but not necessarily urgent.

You're less than 2 months out from d-day. You're probably still in shock. Now is a time to feel your feelings and figure out what you really want. I knew I wanted R on d-day, but a couple of months out, I seriously contemplated D as my plan B. Uncertainty now, IMO, is a sign of health. Feeling beaten down now ... of course.

There's no ideal 'correct' response to d-day, except in very general terms. That is, each of us (BSes) needs to find our own path to surviving and thriving. My approach, and the approach I advise, is to figure out what you want and to go for that. And prepare yourself to monitor yourself and your WS and to adjust as necessary. If what you do works, do more of the same. If it doesn't work, do something different.

I couldn't keep myself from asking questions for hours every day. My W's IC became our MC on d-day, and she told my W to answer every question she could, if she truly wanted to R. W often asked for breaks, and I gave them to her, but I kept coming back with more questions.

Every answer helped me check her veracity.
Every answer helped her take responsibility for herself.
Every question told something about my pain.
Every true answer rebuilt trust.
Every true answer restored healthy bonds between us.

But that's about me and my W. You have to decide what you'll accept. You've got many options WRT Q & A. You've picked one. If it works, great. If it doesn't, suggest another approach and find out if that will work.

Like others, I think it's best to figure out how D can lead to a good life, because you and your W may not be a good fit. Either of you may want something the other will not give. If there are too many of those incompatibilities, staying together is likely to be hellish. Don't do that to yourself.

But the main thing to remember is this: you're at the beginning of your healing. You won't always feel as awful as you feel now. You can get grounded again. You'll be able to think well again. You feel beaten down because being betrayed beats human beings down. You can survive and thrive.

Not a cop but I do deal with confrontational people. I was a people pleasure until this job taught me how to deal with them. I found out using very simple, declarative, sentences get me a lot further. If I get asked for something that I cannot, or will not, do I say NO. I do not explain why unless they need to know the legal reason. What I did at first was ride the hour home every afternoon and go over the day to see how to improve my abilities to communicate. Then I practiced. I always try to be kind but I have a stopping point.

Silly as it sounds talking through conversations you have had with others gives you the ability to go around word salad. Do it in the car by yourself.

You mentioned abandonment fears. That feeling is terrifying. It paralyzes you. That is when EMDR helps you voice all those insults to your body and soul while you were a child.

But the main thing to remember is this: you're at the beginning of your healing. You won't always feel as awful as you feel now. You can get grounded again. You'll be able to think well again. You feel beaten down because being betrayed beats human beings down. You can survive and thrive.

Thank you for those words! I really needed to hear them today. All sorts of in my head today and can't shake it.

The thing that's really getting to me is all of the faking/lying she did. For example, she was with him on our oldest son's birthday. Meaning, she was in a relationship with him on that day. Yet she went out with us as a family to celebrate our child's birthday. I have pictures of her smiling on that day and it just eats me up. Ugh, sorry, I'm ranting.

Again, thanks for the words, I appreciate it!

You mentioned abandonment fears. That feeling is terrifying. It paralyzes you. That is when EMDR helps you voice all those insults to your body and soul while you were a child.

I've done some more looking into EMDR and actually talked to my wife about it. It's also talked about in the book I'm currently reading, so I think I might actually go and give that a shot.

And, yes, the abandonment feeling is terrifying and gut wrenching.

The best thing you can do for yourself is to get to a place where you are ok with divorce. Where if you don’t get what you need from her, you can just leave. When they know it isnt a real possibility that you’ll do it most WS will drag their feet and lean towards rug sweeping.

That's the interesting part of all of this... I'm was 100% ready to get a divorce. I 'gave her' the divorce because she said she wasn't happy. I was mentally prepared to go our separate ways. Then she dropped the affair bomb and things changed. Anger took over and then this primal urge took over to reclaim the marriage. And here we are, working on it.