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Hi SI wayward friends! I am grateful to have you all as a community. I wanted to share some thinking that helps me and see if it sparks something for you.

I have done triathlons all my adult life* - not Ironman, Olympic distance which is much shorter. I'm not an intense trainer, I just like to have a day on the calendar marked for an event to sort of work toward. I would run a lot already so I would be in shape for the run. Even though I don't swim much, I grew up swimming in open water, so the open water swim doesn't bother me - I usually do a couple of longish swims before the meet just to make sure I can do the distance without fatigue. I don't love biking so I usually do the most change there - a couple of months before the race, I would start doing more biking. I don't worry about the bike to run transition - I'll just go slower until the lactic acid wears off, etc. And I figure on race day the adrenalin will put the three together. I'm not in it to win or place, just for fun and to vary training. And the tshirt.

But on race day, I often wake up thinking thinking rats, I should have trained better. This is going to hurt. Why did I do this so half-assed? And I also think - I don't have to do the race. I could just sleep in. But I've never quit, and the way I manage that hour before the start is just to do the next step in front of me and not think about the full thing. So I'll put on my wetsuit. Step through the shower. Hair in the swim cap, join the line up, follow my wave to the start line, etc. I've never once been sorry that I finished the race (and after it starts, I've never scolded myself for not training enough).

One afternoon about 18 months after Dday I finally wrote out every lie I had ever told my husband. Things he couldn't possibly ever find out if I didn't tell him. I didn't do it for his sake, I did it for my own - I wanted to feel clean. When he would say, I love you there was an unvoiced thought lurking in my mind that said to me he doesn't know all of you so that can't be true. I wanted everything in the open, so if he ever did say he loved me again, it was loving all of me, the messed up parts I was trying to fix as well as the parts that are easier to love. I wanted to be naked before him, so to speak, and I wanted him to accept me as I was and what I was becoming and what I wanted to become. But even wanting that so badly - taking that step where I told him everything, that seemed impossible. The next morning, I was staring at myself in the bathroom mirror, willing myself to go in and give him the paper. Nothing in me wanted to do it. I realized - I know this feeling, I've been here before. This is the triathlon feeling. Intensified, but it's in the same ballpark. So then I also know what to do. Just do the next step, don't think about how long or hard or painful it will be. Just put on the wetsuit and get in the lineup. So I went in and gave him the paper.

Does this resonate for you? How have you used experiences, strengths, skills, to help yourself out, to support your weakness? Do you do this? If not, what might you try?

*actually I stopped a few years ago for injuries - but that messes with the flow of the story :) Now I do (sigh) pilates and indoor swimming. They are growing on me.

**there is more to this story on the "Support Through Prayer" thread found here: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/572674/support-through-prayer-part-3/?ap=921

[This message edited by Pippin at 3:50 AM, Monday, March 10th]

It sounds to me you are talking about the way I think of persistence, consistency, and resilience.

I don’t know that I have a thought process of using one thing to make another area stronger.

But what I do is more like this:

If I have a desire to do something, I will think about its importance, its purpose. Then I will use that purpose to keep a persistence that allows me to gain consistency. And when you have clear purpose, are persistent and consistent, it will prove your resilience because undoubtably you will have to work through struggles/obstacles . Cycle the three of these things and it builds confidence, self esteem, etc.

I also kind of use the serenity prayer "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference"

So as I am working on whatever it is, I use that prayer to remind myself what I can control and what I can’t, and I focus solely on my part of whatever it is. It keeps me sane as I continue to persist. It also helps me to know what I need to surrender to God, and to thank Him for his constant presence.

This is essence is a big part of my coping system. I think in general building one that works for you is an important part of recovery and this is why I love the question. Anyone reading your post who is trying to recover should really mull over their "system".

I will say that mine does match yours in taking it one step at a time for we only have the strength for today, and it is sufficient. When we try and think about tomorrow, the next step, or the days to follow it does create overwhelm and it takes your energy away from the only time and way it can be used- in the present.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:49 PM, Monday, March 10th]

]This is essence is a big part of my coping system. I think in general building one that works for you is an important part of recovery

Yes, exactly, well put. For other waywards - rephrasing the question to how are your coping mechanisms and what have you found to be effective?

But what I do is more like this

:

Can you share a specific example and how it unfolded through obstacles? (I’m a very concrete person and specific examples are helpful to me in understanding the abstract).

Can you share a specific example and how it unfolded through obstacles?

Sure.

So here is a recent one.

Early last year my husband lost his job through downsizing. I had not worked since we left for our extended travels, which had been 2.5 years. I had left an executive position.

Keep in mind our living location has been chosen more for being around our kids and grandkids, it is not the land of lots of opportunities. Previously we had lucked into national companies needing small branches in our area. But that is rare.

My husband and I saw potential in him staying home and building his business. He previously had a six figure income and carried our health insurance. He has a health condition in which his medicine and care is expensive.

So I took the first decent opportunity I could find before his severence was gone. I primarily chose it for the health benefits since he can already help some with money.

I drew maybe the most toxic boss one could find. Critical, micromanager, spoke to me in ways no one should be treated. (I now work in a government setting so civil service laws are in effect) she tried to fire me during my probationary period but during the hearing when they listened to my side they saw she had no case. They asked if I would like to be moved I said yes, they said okay we will work on that but it might be some time.

Al this while dealing with the pressures of an unexpected precarious financial situation that has as forcing us to sell of a few of our assets to stay afloat while we were still paying for our last kids last year of college. It was our goal to have all kids have no student loans and we made that happen in the face of all this.

I kept a look out on job boards and applied for lots of things including remote opportunities since the job market is bad here.

She would say things to me like "you did all these wonderful things at the last place you worked at, I need you to do them here." But I wasn’t allowed to give input on anything so I have no idea how she envisioned this happening. Her way was always going to produce limited success, and she just didn’t have the experiences to see it.

I was in this postion another six months while she was already angry with me for my testimony at the hearing because she came out looking very bad, even though I held back 90 percent of what I could have said. She was low key abusive the entire six months. I didn’t trust her boss either to be of any help.

So I kept my purpose in mind. We needed the health insurance and the steady income. That was my purpose and goal.

The obstacles were finding ways to deal with this situation without ruining the opportunity I was waiting on. I consistently came in with a great attitude, I did everything I was asked and I had to keep what she was piling on me from making me go back into that dark sense of shame that has always sort of haunted me most of my life. I didn’t call in, I didn’t react, and I kept my overall kind and positive demeanor. She tested it a lot, aggressively.

I identified I had no control over when the new position would come, how this person saw me, how she treated me.

Thankfully towards the end of last year my husband had gotten his business stable enough and our kid was graduating in December. As we approached Christmas, she pushed me pretty far, and I called my husband on the way home crying.

He was like this is it. We have x in the bank and that will be enough until you can find something else. Plus we were selling the college kid’s house that we bought at a profit and if needed we had that as back up.

This is where I knew I had to stop self abandoning by sacriricing my mental health any longer. Yet, I wanted to find a way to persist because long term the health insurance was still going to be an issue and I had already gotten into that door. So the next day I walked into top dog’s office and said "if I resign can I still apply for that postion once it’s been through its process?

They said "we don’t want you to leave it might be hard to get you back" and they came up with a plan to get me to report to someone else.

But through every obstacle, I put away what I couldn’t control, I did the best with what I could. I was consistent, resilient focused on my purpose. I prayed like crazy and didn’t sit and ruminate or worry which would have been my go to previously. And I didn’t let my thoughts turn to this was me failing in any way. I accepted that I was doing my best and that’s all I could do. Everything else was as in God’s hands.

I am a big believer life brings us to a lot of pain, it’s our job to try and not needlessly suffer. Put one foot in front of the other, be kind to yourself, do your best, let God do the rest.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:55 PM, Monday, March 10th]

That was an incredible example, thank you! What I like about it is not only that you used the tools you have developed to hang in there when you needed to, but also that you were able to decide when it was too much. If the emotional swirl is over, do you look on all of this with just and deserved pride? I think it is absolutely wonderful. Doesn't it feel good to be able to feel like you can both handle a lot of what life throws at you, but also have someone around to rely on when you need them? (in this case your husband).

Sorry if this is too much to ask, but can you talk even more specifically about the actual practices you use? For example, I take a long walk almost every day with my pandemic puppy (who is slowly turning into a grumpy old lady-dog). During that time I recite my psalms, which quiets and focuses my mind, and sometimes I sing. The woods are pretty empty so no one has to hear my bad singing. When I am emotionally stable, this is all training. When I am a little wobby, it helps to right me. And sometimes when I am an emotional disaster, I can't focus on the psalms or complicated songs, so I sing kids songs. (This Little Light Of Mine is a default). And sometimes I am just silent, and being in the woods is helpful, because it is the place where I feel the most peaceful. So I wonder what the actual daily practices look like for you both in stable and not stable times. I am super, super concrete in my thinking which allows me to abstract . . . .

It was our goal to have all kids have no student loans and we made that happen in the face of all this.

Bravo!! Lucky kids.

[This message edited by Pippin at 1:11 AM, Tuesday, March 11th]

When I wake up in the morning I focus on three things I am thankful for. I will go deep and reflect on everything I love about something, spending several minutes just free writing each one. I try and focus on moving my energy from my mind to my heart, as you maybe aware I am a thinker so I am in my head a lot. I try and take some conscious breaths through the day and remind myself to be present and in my body.

I try and make time just to listen for Gods wisdom or instruction. Sometimes I do this on my commute, other times it’s during a long bath or laying in my hammock. I will just say God tell me what I need to know. It’s kind of meditative, and sometimes things come to me and sometimes not. Sometimes I free write anything that comes up.

And other times I just talk to him. I will acknowledge what I am trying to surrender and really try and imagine putting it down. I thank him for loving me so fully,

I am a big nature person too. I see my time in nature as a time to exercise being fully present. I will take time to notice all the little wonders around me, I will focus on the feelings of the sun on my skin, or the feel of the breeze. I feel His presence through that.

I don’t know if I feel pride over surviving a bad boss. Mostly it was more humbling. I have been very blessed to get as far into my career with wonderful bosses when I had them. I took time to understand why I irritated this one, because I realize that I have not had a boss in probably 12 years or so. I am certain I have tendencies that other people she manages didn’t have. I still think she was a nightmare to everyone, but I think I brought out the worst in her. I think about all the people out there who live under that for years. I don’t know how, when you walk on eggshells 40 hours a week and your boss will go off on things that you could never anticipate, it’s hard not to have that negativity infiltrate. It certainly felt at times that I was failing hard or blaming myself.

But overall, enduring this under financial strain, my husband really struggling to understand his own place in life (he felt like he wasn’t providing and I think it was hurting his masculinity feels - though I had total faith he would get his business bolstered and he did), one of our children’s fertility issues and the devastating losses she and her husband endured, it just felt like we were being pummeled throughout 2024.

So pride isn’t really what it is- I think more relief would be the word I would use. 2025 is looking much more promising and I am thanking Him for the reprieve and the abundance I have In my life.

And yes, a lot of that abundance is absolutely having a loving, supportive husband who held my hand through it all, listened to me vent, comforted me, all while having his own struggles with all we had going on. We truly had to be each other’s rock.

Hikingout, this is so interesting, thank you. I am realizing something that is similar to something I realized a couple of years ago. I have a good friend who is very into the Enneagram concept. I am not that into it per se. But we had a long car ride together, and she was talking and talking about it, and I finally read some of the descriptions, and two of my kids were described to a TEE, in different numbers. It gave me so much insight into how to interact with them differently. And I realized that I default to thinking that other people think like I do, not the content but the process, and often they just don't. So I'm realizing that I assumed other people use their strengths to support their weakness, but now I think that you and I think very differently (process, not content) and that is good to realize. I makes me very curious about the differences.

Another question, if you don't mind. Does your process look the same whether you are in an emotional swirl or not? Do you still start with gratitude, reflect and write, listen and so on when there is a mini-crisis in your life, like when your boss really got under your skin? What is the difference between when you feel hopeful and when you feel hopeless? or do you observe the feelings and carry on?

And it also makes me think - you like those long theoretical threads in general which mull over every aspect of some question. You don't feel like it's a duty to respond, right? You like it? My eyes glaze over and I can't read them. When it's a concept not tied to a very specific person processing a very specific problem, I can't muster interest. That's OK, I think, both the interest and the not interest. Just different.

I also think I have a cycle of ponder-act-reflect and my processes are a little different at each point (which is why I asked above about whether your processes are different if there is emotional swirl). The emotional swirl comes at the reflect part. For example, on a normal day I am settled and peaceful, and that's the ponder time. Laying the foundations, reading the bible, prayer, singing, etc. When it's easy to choose what to do with my mind. Then my husband and I will have a tricky interaction. I have some presence of mind during that and I can hear myself coaching myself about how to help him or that I need to help myself by stopping the interaction. I have said to him, "I feel myself dissociating" or "I don't have access to verbal right now." In the moment, I feel numb, or confused, and I need space to make sense of it. Not always, just when it's very tricky. I have to go for long walks and during that time I'm not doing the foundational stuff, I'm just sorting through my thoughts and listening. I am physically walking but metaphorically standing perfectly still until I am sure which way to step. Sorry if this is confusing, I haven't got it sorted out neatly. Or - here is a non-emotional cycle. For some reason I am drawn to SI this week. I have no idea why, there are weeks that go by when I am not. It might be because I'm traveling with my husband on a work trip, away from the kids, and I have time during the day when he's busy (I can bring my work with me). So I feel the impulse to post, I check in with myself to see if it's unwise - doesn't seem to be - and I follow the impulse. See what comes out and reflect on that, make sense of it. Sometimes it takes week or months, and later I will see - ah! That's what I was dealing with. Maybe it's like what happens for people who journal/free write? I could never find a connection with journaling. Maybe that's something I should work on with intention. Anyway, I remember reading John 13:7 and it made SO much sense to me: "Jesus answered and said to him, 'What I am doing, you do not realize right now, but you will understand later." So sometimes I think it's the Holy Spirit - act without seeing, then see. As long as it's not unwise or hurtful.

Also - not pride - maybe assured confidence that if something comes at you that you don't have the tools for, you will develop them as needed? Assured confidence is how I feel. Not in myself, but in my willingness to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and in (her? I think it's feminine in Greek?) wisdom and ability. But I also think pride is not a wrong term for me in the Pauline "boast in the Lord" kind.

So when I am down I feel I need these things more. I actually find it harder to keep at when everything is good. But when things are bad I am acutely aware of the science behind gratitude practices. I am acutely aware of needing to sit with spirit. Whether that be my higher self, God, etc. I am actually not a person who practices a specific religion, though I would associate my beliefs more with Christianity. Though a lot of my practices come from Tolle, Pema Chadron, and other spiritual teachers because I feel they give me a lot of philosophical insight on coping and how to frame thoughts and how to be mindful.

Sure there are times I need to process something before I talk about it, I don’t think of it as disassociation. I am aware that I am inclined to dissociate by sitting and looking at my phone or watching TV. But generally speaking the only time I put off a convo with my husband is when it’s past nine pm and he wants to talk about business decisions and that’s just because by the end of the day I am mentally tired and I want to give more thought to what he is asking. I find at other times when I am struggling with something talking to him can help me find clarity so I don’t need to be in any certain mental state.

Though I should clarify- I am very rarely in a gloomy or bad mood. I am very easy going, even keel. My close friends and family would describe me as exuberant, happy, pleasant. I think that’s my training from childhood, but it’s not something I have wanted to change about myself. I just have to be careful that the insides match the outsides. And often they do. I am optimistic, a Pollyanna of sorts. It’s not that I have not experienced prolonged suffering or grief. I obviously have. I just find when I am overwhelmed to come back to the present moment. Usually in the present moment we are safe, nothing is wrong. You have read Tolle so this should not surprise you.

I only respond to things in the forum that I am interested in. I am fascinated by human response, philosophy, and finding little nuggets either through what someone else has written or by writing to explore how I feel about it. I have questioned if it’s healthy for me to be here. After all this is a forum full of pain, my own situation is mostly resolved. But I think I do occasionally help someone, and in some ways this makes me feel like all the things I did and then all learned from it can serve more of a purpose than just for me. I also know for a fact without the people here who helped me through that time were crucial in my recovery. I would place writing here above my therapy experience.

And I am highly analytical anyway in real life. I am a deep kind of person who seeks to understand. Many of my positions at work have related to data analysis. I learn something here almost every time I log in.

Is it healthy? Still up for debate. But I am passionate about it so not sure how to reconcile to come up with the answer.

As for the follow up on pride/confidence…

Hmmm. I think I am glad that I can stick through hard things, but my marriage is way more evident of that. I am proud of my marriage. I am proud of myself for being so distraught over my behaviors that I did something about it. That says to me, that wasn’t who I wanted to be. I am proud of myself for learning self compassion and that I protect my peace fiercely. And that gives me so much more capacity for compassion of others. I don’t think I was that compassionate with you when you came here, that was because I couldn’t be that for myself. I would say much different things to you today.

That all relates I guess to the job thing, but where it comes to that I honestly mostly just feel relief. Being around someone so toxic is very difficult for me. I wanted to say "look you are so critical, so I have to believe it’s because you are this way with yourself, there is a better way." I think my overarching feeling is it sucks far worse that she lives her life that way when she could do some work and have peace herself. But I am not here to wake everyone up.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:02 PM, Tuesday, March 11th]

Thank you, HO, I think I have got what I need from this thread.

I pondered disassociating. I do usually have to process something before I can talk about it, but I wouldn't use the word disassociate. The last two hard conversations I have had with my husband though, it had been genuine disassociation. We are at a difficult layer of the onion (or actually we are past it, but when I was writing we were still kind of there). He is normally relaxed and confident, but when his fear is triggered (at work, a health issue, or thinking about the affair), he uses sex to make himself feel better. It's an insatiable urge and it has nothing to do with intimacy. Previously, sex was easy for me. Like a handshake, from my early teen promiscuity. And I also felt like I owed it to him because of the affair. But I think I'm becoming more sensitive about it, less calloused, and it felt really wrong when I was agreeing to it to bolster his insecurity, and I also felt unable to say no. When I would say something feels off, our conversation would go sideways and he would locate the problem in me instead of him, which felt wrong to me, but I couldn't formulate words. Cue disassociation. Not terrible, maybe if Edward St Aubyn's description of sending his soul into the lizard climbing up the wall of his house the first time his father raped him at age 5 - if that is a 10, this was more like a 2. But it's the same out of body experience and took me a long time to get re-embodied, figure out what was going on, and talk in the face of his denial that there is a problem. So writing this helped me zero in on that word, which you highlighted, and now I think I've got it. We had a great conversation where the pattern is on the table and now both of us can be alert to it.

Thank you again!

Previously, sex was easy for me. Like a handshake, from my early teen promiscuity. And I also felt like I owed it to him because of the affair. But I think I'm becoming more sensitive about it, less calloused, and it felt really wrong when I was agreeing to it to bolster his insecurity, and I also felt unable to say no. When I would say something feels off, our conversation would go sideways and he would locate the problem in me instead of him, which felt wrong to me, but I couldn't formulate words. Cue disassociation.

Ah. Here I relate to you 100 percent.

I too had the promiscuity, and casual sex, and sex with out much emotional intimacy has been the norm for me. As I have awakened to what I really need and want I am exactly the way you describe. I want to feel heart and mind connection, and coming out of that cocoon created conflict and triggers. It likely will take more than the discovery as you grow your new norm. Sex was mostly porn like for us, and I think this discovery struggle we experienced was worth it because it creates a passion that I have never felt before, a full openness is what sex feels like now. We are working on something else in that department right now, and it’s easier with less triggering in him but you know most of these things go imperfectly. I have found that my patience with it has made a big difference in his…defensiveness ? I am not sure that’s the word I mean to reach for.

Some of this I believe is just a product of my aging. The closer to 50 that I have gotten the more I come into myself and that has shown up a lot in my sexuality. The go along with this or that is not as possible as before. But in someways that reclaiming of my power has made it all way more interesting to me.

All this to say, we had this about three years ago, and there is likely more to navigate moving forward but that sounds like a great breakthrough.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:29 PM, Saturday, March 15th]