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Am I wrong for not believing her more? She says it hurts that the one person she thought had her back doesn’t believe her. She has deleted all social media, started therapy, and is making more of an effort at home—cooking more, showing more affection, making time for me, and constantly telling me she loves me. Is this the sign of a changed woman, or a guilty conscience?

There is no guilt here.

Only gaslighting.

She is gaslighting you.

You are gaslighting yourself.

I know how you feel, been there, you want desperately to believe her and refuse the idea she can be the woman that she truly is. You hope you can convince yourself she is still the woman you loved.

She is not, this is her true nature.

You will see it along the way. Now you feel you cannot, but you will.

Only question is: do you want to get worse? Or do you want to accept it now and take the measures to protect yourself?

It will just hurt more if you pull your head under the sand.

Believe it or not, what you do now will tell her 2 things:

- One + there will be consequences for my disgusting behavior and I will be rejected and left alone (she may turn around and work on herself to become a better person, or leave and roll deeper into the mud. Both are a win win for you.)

- Two + I can fuck around and with you, because you are so desperate to play "pick me" that I can pleasure herself with as many Affair Partners as I like in the future. You will swallow it and do nothing, I can always lie to you. It works now, it will work later.

What do you want from your partner?

Anyway there is only one healthy decision. For you no doubt, no questions. For her as well if she realizes the horror of what she did, turns around and start working, she might become a decent person.

From what you sound you are being an accessory to your own betrayal, you get lied and your wife and the Other Man are laughing it off while having "fun" behind your back.

Please open your eyes, she is not remorseful at all, it's performance not guilt.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 9:58 PM, Tuesday, January 27th]

Put me in the camp of not believing they did not have PIV sex. But, here are some additional thoughts.

1) it is possible that he has some fetish about masturbating on women. Sex drive can be very strange so however unlikely, it is in the realm of possibility. If she had said thats all he wanted to do that might lend a tiny bit of credence. But if that was the case, why dis she go back to him?? Unless that excited her too.

2) What about taking her phone and texting him as your WW? Do it with zero foreknowledge on her part. When you text, tell him my husband found out and keeps asking about what happened. If my husband contacts you will you please tell him we only had full sex in person a few times? He thinks we were having sex for months. Then see how he replies.

3) if, by chance, the masturbation story is true, imo that is still a form of sex. Not as bad as PIV or oral but when you let a man do that to you after months of sexting it is very sexual. Does she alao admit to kissing with the cuddling? Touching him? Its all foreplay and if somehow he didnt enter her it was still sexual and she needs to own that.

4) if there is an other poly, it needs to be you scheduling it at antime she is not aware. Then you change her purse so she can knly take her wallet, which you check for any drugs that might alter her heart rate. I am not necessarily recommending another but consider that approach if you want one.

She says that’s all she allowed, but when she claims she didn’t watch and that it wasn’t enjoyable, her version loses credibility. These statements feel like minimization—an attempt to make the situation seem less serious—because the facts, including confessions, texts, and arranged meetings, clearly point to sexual activity. What actually happened doesn’t change based on how she frames it, which is why it’s hard to take her version at face value.

What about texting posom from her phone to see how he responds and thus get more data? Would that potentially work in your situation?

You're wavering in denial. I asked my wife was something going on. She looked me straight in the eyes and said No. But something wasn't right and something felt out of place. She was doing weird things and hiding phone and where she had been. If you feel it's not adding up then it's probably not adding up. If you rugsweep your just putting the pain further down the road. Get a plan together on how to get the info you need. For me, I'm a tech nerd so I dumped her devices and created the timeline from the data while she was sleeping. Her world was forever changed when I woke her and told her she had to leave. She literally was vomitting out what she had done. It took about two weeks of planning. But being straight forward wasn't working. Patience and resolve did though. Once she admitted most of it ( there was some more gas lighting after) she started to see the light.

She says it hurts that the one person she thought had her back doesn’t believe her.

Has she always been this unreasonable and lacking in empathy? No one who has failed a polygraph and has changed their story multiple times should be at all surprised that they’re viewed with suspicion.

I’m sorry you are here.

From my perspective Two truths exist:

1) she cheated. She cheated emotionally and sexually (physically). Whether there was intercourse or not, pulling her pants down, exposing her privates and letting him do his thing is cheating. It’s enough of a betrayal to warrant divorce. Like you I do t believe that was all they did. But it’s more than enough. And all things physical that led to that moment, hugging, kissing, caressing all add to the intimacy of this affair. I would make that clear to her.

2) she’s a liar. She tried to hide the relationship. She lied to you several times and reversal of admission is basically the same as lying by omission. I would let her know that all trust is broken because of this and it will take years and perhaps even more than a decade to repair what she has done if that’s the path you both choose to follow.

To me I would make it clear that both of the above mean she has broken her vows and seriously damaged if not destroyed the marriage as it was.

You are probably feeling that you don’t want to leave and end the marriage as you have hope it can be salvaged. My opinion, and it’s only mine so use it as it works for you, is that she already ended the marriage thru her choices and actions.

You can’t duct tape it back together and think it will ever be what it was.

Instead to me, the right path, whether it’s eventually going separate ways or building something new starts with the same first step: Separation, legally and Physically; and using the time apart working each on yourselves.

Rebuilding cannot start until she works to fix what was broken in her to begin with. I hope her therapist is an infidelity specialist. If not tell her you have no chance of a future together down the road if she doesn’t find one to work with.

And I recommend you work with a trauma specialist. It will take a long time to work thru this pain. Really no work on the marriage will be fruitful until you do.

You get to decide the terms of the separation. I would let her know that if she decides to spend her time with the AP or any other man that you will start divorce proceedings. If it were me, I might file anyway, but that is for you to decide.

And the last thing I would communicate to her is that rebuilding a relationship after infidelity starts with a long term plan and that if true reconciliation is what she wants, she needs to research what one contains and create the first draft of such a plan.

But she needs to realize it will be one that will have 1 3 5 and 10 year milestones and will never be easy, so if she’s not up for that work she should be honest and not waste either of your time.

Again sorry for your pain and I wish you well.

I am sad to see that you found yourself here...but this is the BEST place to be for you to work things out in your head . This site has been a Godsend for me and hopefully you will find solace and kindness on here as well. We ALL want to HELP you to HEAL from this terrible trauma. We each have different experiences with how we have been able to heal...so some advice may seem contradictory to how YOU feel your healing needs to be. Please feel free to take the advice that works for YOU...and leave the rest .

The "Cheaters Handbook" is often written about on here because there are certain things that happen that create a pattern of what a cheater IS or DOES. You have experienced some of it yourself from what I read. Cheaters don't always follow the same pattern though...or there would be a REAL Cheaters Handbook!

1. Cheaters are SELFISH.

2. Cheaters LIE.

3. Cheaters GASLIGHT.

4. Cheaters DO NOT THINK about their spouse during their meetings with the adultery co-conspirator.

There are also a few things that Betrayeds need to know.

1. ALWAYS trust your GUT.

2. The A was in NO WAY EVER your FAULT.

3. The "pick me dance" NEVER works. NEVER.

4. You have to be willing to LOSE your marriage in order to SAVE it.

5. EVERY A is a dealbreaker. You can either make a new deal (R)...or you can void the contract (D).

6. For R to work...BOTH parties have to be ALL IN.

7. You have been dropped onto an emotional rollercoaster. You can't get off and it is HELL to ride it. But it WILL get better after a while.

While deciding which way to go...you get in this really horrible place...LIMBO. That is NORMAL for it being so close to Dday for you...but it SUCKS (((HUGS))). The sooner you can get OUT of limbo...the better your mental health will be . I have watched some people stay in this place for YEARS on here and it breaks my heart for them . It will literally ruin not only your mental health but your physical health as well. Take the time YOU need to get your bearings while you are in limbo...but please TRY to get yourself out of it and move forward when you feel you are ready. Limbo is not where you want to be for the rest of your life! You can always change your mind and make a different choice between R or D...just keep moving forward.

Having a timeline of the affair will help to keep your wife's story straight. She is lying right now but you aren't sure to what extent. Having the timeline will help you with questions and it will help her to become more truthful. It sometimes HURTS to see it written down...but it will help you to heal.

Your wife doesn't have to stay a cheater. You will find MANY Waywards on here who are no longer cheaters...and they are very helpful to this site . That choice is up to her though. I hope she chooses wisely. YOU have choices too. This was NOT the path you had planned for your life...but you CAN have a wonderful life despite the A . Your marriage may not survive infidelity...but YOU definitely can...with the choices you make !!

[This message edited by Want2BHappyAgain at 9:13 AM, Friday, January 30th]

I have already been given two timelines, and both were later fully retracted. I was told they were lies, created to keep me in the house. When I asked for a proper timeline, she said she wasn’t in the right headspace at the moment to give me a truthful account, but told me it would not include an admission of sex.
I have now left the house. Reading everything back, it just doesn’t sit well with me. I feel like I’ve been lied to throughout our whole relationship.

[This message edited by Coordinatedtime at 1:33 PM, Friday, January 30th]

You are where all of us have been at one point. In the early days your brain is desperately trying to believe everything is okay and that your WS is still the awesome person you remember him/her to be, but he / she is not. The person in front of you has lied to you, has attempted to Gaslight you, has attempted to minimize the damage that has been caused, and all of it is to make him/her feel less shitty about himself / herself

I said it before, a WS does not admit to having sex with somebody else unless they did. When you are given a story and then the story changes and then it changes again and again you are right to not believe a word they say. Early on a WS will say anything to keep you in the relationship.

The reason she is doing all these nice things around the house such as cooking cleaning sex Etc is only to placate you and hope that it makes you ignore the affair and pretend like everything is normal. It is only temporary and once she feels that everything is okay she will drift back to the way she was because that's who she is

I have no idea what this two question eye detect polygraph is but I think it's BS and it would carry zero weight for me

It takes a very long time for a person to change permanently and the changes you see right now may or may not last. I pushed my wife into IC and I truly thought she would last maybe a month or two and then say everything is okay and I'm done with IC and had she done so I would have ended relationship but it's been a year about 18 months and she still goes weekly and this may go on for years

A week ago we were talking and she asked where I am with trust in her and I said you don't rebuild 27 years of trust in under 2 years. I'm sure that wasn't the answer she was looking for but I am in no rush to fully trust her again. With that said, I will never again implicitly trust her, that ability has been permanently destroyed in me

If you want to test her take her phone and send the guy a text saying my husband is asking how many times we had sex and I told him it was only once so if he by chance reaches out to you tell him it was only once and then keep her phone until you get a response but you have to do this spontaneously, and you have to keep her within sight so she doesn't reach out to him another way

Your brain wants to believe everything is okay but it's not and it won't be for years. If you minimize this and sweep it under the rug it will only resurface much much worse down the road

She has started therapy but keeps pushing me to go as well. I have had extensive counselling in the past. I spent four years in weekly cognitive and EMDR therapy to process childhood trauma. My wife was the first person I told and she encouraged me to go to the police. The perpetrator received 18 years in prison.
Because of this, I already have a large number of the tools needed to move forward—if I believed I had all the information to do so. My wife is now just another person who has lied to me in the name of love.
I don’t have any close family, and I haven’t seen my dad since I was 12. I’m now 38, and my whole world is in the house that I’ve just left.

You're not getting much truth, and if your W does give you some truth, it can't be recognized among all the lies. So....

What is your thinking about D?

What is holding you back from filing?

"I’m doing it now, but my wife has the marriage certificate. Is there a way around it?"

[This message edited by Coordinatedtime at 6:11 PM, Friday, January 30th]

Well....I'm sorry you're here my friend, but the bottom line, as you can now see, is that your wife cannot be trusted. That's the very bottom line of it all, without looking at any other considerations, you are now married to someone you cannot trust. She has told you different and repeated lies, repeated lies, back and forth, different stories, which are all lies. The purpose of the lies is to protect what she has and to manipulate and control you. She's not trying to protect you from pain....she's trying to protect herself from consequences by controlling you. THIS IS GASLIGHTING. All of her behavior including what she's currently doing is about holding on to her present situation and controlling YOU. She may have some authentic regret or guilt over what she's done, but you can't separate that out from self serving emotions like trying to protect herself and what she has built up with you. She felt safe enough in your relationship to have this affair, she does not respect you because you don't cheat on someone you respect, she thought she could fool you and she did for a while and now she continues to try to fool you by trying to get you to believe some version of lies. If one set doesn't work, she'll pivot to another. But what is the motive here? To protect herself by controlling you. That's not a marriage and you can't build one out of thinking like that.

As for whether she had sex with the guy, of course she did. You don't go through all that without sex. Adults have sex. She just figures that's the line in the sand. And the lie detector tests? Whatever one she did she researched to see if she could outfox it, and it must be something that could be done. So we should take both of those off the table and just consider that you are married to someone who doesn't respect you, does not respect your marriage, cheats on you sexually, lies to you, and wants to control you. That's NOT a marriage. A healthy marriage is 2 people who treat each other with respect and honesty and try to help and support each other and each tries to put the other first most of the time. But you talk out problems, even when difficult, and even when you fight, honesty and concern for the other spouse has to be a primary consideration in marriage. Marriage for her is all about her. You probably have had a lot of this in your life and you're used to it, I bet there were red flags about behavior - not necessarily cheating but other things - and you overlooked it because you are used to bad behavior or selfish behavior from others. It does not sound like you had healthy role models to learn from.

So I am not generally in favor of reconciliation, most of the time I think it's like flinging life jackets off the Titanic, and it's not genuine, real feelings of pain and disrespect and lack of trust and death of romantic love keep breaking through until they can't be denied. I don't see having a marital relationship with this woman, counseling or no counseling. How do you teach someone NOT to be selfish, not to be controlling, not to lie to others to protect herself - I don't know. She's do or say anything at this point to save the status quo, to keep her life. Maybe she does love you, but not in a healthy way that makes marriage worthwhile or even workable. You cannot be in a close relationship with someone you fundamentally do not trust.

I would continue to pursue divorce, get a good lawyer, protect yourself as much as possible, do what the lawyer says, get individual counseling FOR YOURSELF and not marriage counseling because that's designed to keep even bad marriages together. Learn about yourself and what you want and don't want and what your standards and expectations of marriage are. Set your boundaries. She has done this to herself and you, and she'll keep lying to you until SHE learns to behave differently if she can. This is on her, and she's the only one who can make herself trustworthy again and that can only be proven and demonstrated over time. She needs to fix herself, you can't. I think you made the right move to leave, now make sure you have the best help you can to weather this. It will never feel good NOW, but it's better than living a lie and eventually you will start to realize this was the only way forward. She has to work on herself alone.

Just a word of caution too - be careful in your interactions with her. I would record them - make sure you know the laws in your area but whether you can record without telling her or just tell you're recording, I would keep a record like that of your interactions from this point. I have seen situations personally where a man was accused of behavior he didn't do - being threatening or attacking a woman or just general claims of feeling unsafe, and this can be a very effective weapon. Your wife seems to be a very emotional person and a chronic liar so she might do this easily. One of her friends might suggest this to her. Be sure you have records of your interactions, it's even better if you can have a witness with you to pick up things or meet in public, but I would always record. Men are vulnerable in this way. In dealing with her, in person, or in legal matters, always err on the side of caution and do not trust her. You would not have thought she would cheat or act like this and you don't know what else she could do or what ideas someone might put in her head. Sometimes people have friends who know about the cheating that they confide in, and these are sometimes even more experienced cheaters. Don't go off doing things on your own without checking with your lawyer first and being safe about it.

I’m doing it now, but my wife has the marriage certificate. Is there a way around it?"

You should be able to get an official copy from the UK Records Office.