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Background: divorced 2017, now living abroad, unattached. Two adult children (30s), one on each coast, each with spouse/partner. X-wife lives near son.

Situation: son just entered counseling. We had a long Skype call last night about his two main issues: 1) his desire to get a new job/career, held back by anxieties, lack of confidence, overwhelming prospect of things he’d have to do to prepare for a job change. 2) whether or not to have a child (!).

My quandary: how much do i tell him about his childhood? I feel some information would be helpful for therapy, but it would involve criticizing his mother, which is something I have been trying not to do.

He may not be speaking to her right now. He mentioned something about it a few months ago. I gather he’s been urging him to do things he doesn’t want to do. He’s been a master of passive resistance since he was a toddler.

I want to tell him I wasn’t the best of parents when he was small. I was exhausted by parenting his older sister, and by my freelance business. When he started talking, my son talked like me - in a very flat, exhausted voice. My wife, bless her, pointed this out to me, and triumphantly showed me video of him talking, and me not really paying attention to what he was saying. Triumphant because it proved her point that I was being a poor parent. Our marriage was marred by many frustrating (to me) arguments about my flaws. My take on things was always wrong, which she could "prove" by citing her copious mental notes, and reading into them her own interpretations, which were unassailable. She simply would not consider my point of view.

The lesson from this is that maybe I was not the best of parents at first, and my depression and inability to connect at the time could be the root of some of his problems. But, also, the lesson is that his mother is a gaslighter, possibly a narcissist.

Bring this up, or let him figure it out on his own?

Encourage him to seek counseling and career counseling. There are no perfect parents. We all screw up one way or another. You are divorced from your narc ExWW for several years. Be a positive voice and support for your son moving forward. He is in his thirties and will figure things out. Just IMO, but no need to bring up your ExWW. If she is currently being a negative force in his life he needs to deal with her. Just be glad you are living your best life without her negative influence. Good luck.

I agree with fareast…don’t beat yourself up too much. Your ex was clearly determined to make you feel like a bad parent, so you probably weren’t as bad as you think.

I’m an anxious type of person like your son, and I had two good parents. I think it’s more nature vs nurture. We are just naturally wired to be more anxious. I believe there are some studies showing that anxiety appears at a very young age, before we’ve had a chance to be messed up by our parents.

It wouldn’t hurt to express your feelings to your son, and let him know you wished you had been more present as a parent, or whatever. But definitely do not blame your ex. She contributed to the stress you were under, but she is not responsible for your parenting choices; you are. So you have to own up to that. Maybe say you are sorry for letting the stress you were under affect your parenting, and if he ever needs to talk about it more in depth you’re there for him.

[This message edited by LizM at 1:45 AM, Monday, January 17th]

Maybe say you are sorry for letting the stress you were under affect your parenting, and if he ever needs to talk about it more in depth you’re there for him.

This. Just leave the door ajar, let your son make the choice of whether to walk through it or not (akin to "don't offer advice unless it is asked for").

Thanks, fareast (hello again!), Liz and Turtle! Very helpful advice. I will follow it!

BeeBee64

Letting him figure it out on his own is not a given. In my case, after decades of seeing therapists through a nearly 30 year marriage with a covert narcissist/closet addict (including SA) and BPD, I have finally found a therapist who focuses on Family of Origin work and am stunned at what I didn't see. Previous therapists blamed my ex's stressful job, but none of them saw his manipulations. Not our marriage counselors, not my counselors, not the individual counselors he saw. Of course he lied to us all. I was the one suffering from depression, they said. But now that I had someone take me through FOO work, it all fits. I see patterns not only in my choice of spouse, but also in my choice of unfulfilling job, and they track with my relationship with my father, who I previously thought was a hero, rather than someone who I now see is emotionally immature and selfish.

I share this because - given what you said about both you and your wife being unhealthy in his childhood - it sounds like a lot of the progress your son makes will depend on whether he finds a therapist who focuses on FOO.

So getting back to your question: You might share with your son that his early childhood wasn't the healthiest environment (that both of his parents had struggles and issues) and that he might want to find a therapist who does FOO work.

That points him in the right direction and opens the door for a conversation in which he can ask you to elaborate. And if he does, you need to be honest. That doesn't mean you point fingers at your ex-wife or his older sister. You could say: "I was depressed, overwhelmed with a lot of responsibilities and exhausted when you were young, and I was emotionally absent. Your mother and I argued a lot. Sometimes, I wonder if your mother has narcissistic traits, but even if she does, I needed to be present for you and I wasn't. I'm very sorry for that. I lost the opportunity to share some of your growing up and it undoubtably had an effect on your attachment style."

(Speaking of attachment style, experts believe that its formed with our first year, so I'm not sure that there is ever a time when we're too young to be messed up by our parents, as one of the other people commented.)

Also, you can further open the door by telling your son that if he does family of origin work you'd be willing to join a session.

This strategy let's you own your mistakes, and apologize for them, but put the ball in his court.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 4:17 PM, Wednesday, January 19th]

Thanks much, Black Raven. I don’t know this FOO therapy, but it sounds like it may be like Family Therapy, which I benefited from greatly in my 30s. The therapist took me through as much of my family tree as we could - on the assumption that a person is the product of many generations.

We got to the glaringly obvious problem - I had half a tree. I did not know my father or anything about his family. The therapist urged me to find a way to contact them. I did so, it was very dramatic, Turned out my paternal grandmother lived only a few miles distant. We met and bonded. Eventually I met my dad, and other family members I didn’t know existed. I eventually got a nice inheritance from my grandmother, which made up a little for no child-support as I was growing up. My mom refused any, and once I got to know my father (very controlling Alpha male type), I realized she made the right decision. As an adult I could handle him. We have a fairly good relationship now.

But, back to what you said. Thank you, I’ll bring this up in some way with my son.