SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

First of all, THANK YOU for this forum. It’s of great comfort in such a terrible time. ❤️❤️❤️

Please, I ask your advice and opinions:

My girlfriend for 12 years and mother to my kid has had sex with another man.

Context: Our relationship had gone sour, communication was terrible, and we both neglected each other both physically and emotionally. A lot of bumps in the road, what many would call "life", but to her "big crises". She has a lot of issues due to trauma from being raised by a borderline mother, and has shown mild symptoms of this her self (lying, a lot, about trivial things, and bigger things. Hiding her phone, always putting it upside down and very often screening calls). Lying about whereabouts, Economy, but also possibly former affairs, as I’ve seen very suspicious texts and behavior. I understand now that she’s probably been gaslighting me then, and that I was a fool for trying to have trust in her (which I never really managed).

Eight months ago she called for a break in our relationship. We agreed to not date others, this was purely about "finding out footing". We agreed to do different things that summer, and when autumn came she wanted us to rent an apartment to create space for each other. I moved in. She’s been taking huge steps in reinventing herself in her relationship with her mother, and trying to find happiness and freedom from anxiety/bulimia. However, it turns out she also established contact with a much younger man already before that summer, when needing a break from us. I found out about them by using find my iPhone and uncovered a webhole of lies and deceit to keep it secret. All at the same time she’s been telling me that she sees a future for us now. The night I got her to tell me the truth, in detail, about what had happened, she claimed to have had sex with him six times (supposedly counted with her therapist). I have no idea if that’s true, but I DO now she went back to his place the night after she came clean to me. That’s the last "evidence" I’m gonna get, as I spilled my heart to her, and told her to f off. She deleted the find my iPhone, much to my blessing, as I really don’t need to know if she’s still seeing him (she probably is).

What do I do?
I told her that we were broken up know, and for her to get out of my life, but we have a kid together, and a long life together, and even though I carry an unbearable amount of hatred and bitterness, I truly love her deeply, and at some level I want her back and want to fix this - and at the same time I hate myself for it, I feel weak.

She is considering getting help for possible borderline personality disorder - it frightens the living crap out of me that BPD parters are chronic cheaters and liars, according to quora… I’m not even sure she defines this as cheating, as she know tries to rewrite our separation story and that this wasn’t truly cheating. She hid it for months, while playing with my hopes of fixing us. She now claims these feelings to be true, that she really had started to feel hope for us again. Not sure what to believe, she seems sincere, but then again…

Is she toying with me? Am I a fool for wanting to believe her? I’m an emotional wreck now, as I have the kid half the time, and jealousy is still killing me (she told me she has cut all ties to the other guy, but I have no clue).

I need advice! Help, and some forum shoulders to sob my heart out on, because it feels as this will end me. We’ve scheduled a talk tomorrow, as I need to be able to communicate without wanting to scream at her, for the sake of our son.

Sorry about long post, any thoughts or similar experiences will be much appreciated. ❤️

Good afternoon, welcome to SI. So sorry you are now a member of the best club no one wants to join.

but also possibly former affairs, as I’ve seen very suspicious texts and behavior

.

^^^If your gut was screaming during the past, it was probably right.

Gently, when she called for a break, what she really wanted was to test drive the other man IMO and keep you as Plan B. A backup in case the other guy didn't work out.

t

I DO now she went back to his place the night after she came clean to me

Proof of what I am thinking. Stringing you along while continuing the affair. Just throwing a bone to keep you hopeful.

Honestly, right now I'd contact an attorney to find out about child custody. Know your rights.

You love the person you thought she was, not the person she is. Whatever you do, don't do what we call the pick me dance, do not contact her unless it concerns finances or your child, do not beg or plead. In essence, go no contact with her.

During your talk, stay calm, it's not easy. Actually allow her to do most of the talking and ask simple questions.

Keep in mind, cheaters lie and deny and gaslight and lie some more and more. You cannot believe a word out of her mouth.

Please find a good individual counselor for yourself to help you navigate this nightmare. Also lean on TRUSTED family and friends. Keep busy, exercise, meet with friends, and contact with your MD if you are really having trouble coping. Maybe some temporary medications to help you sleep. Also be sure to stay hydrated and eat as best as you can.

Thank you for your thoughts.
You are probably spot on, and I know you know it hurts like hell.

I’ve done the formalities, contacted support group, going to an individual therapy session tomorrow, and requested a meeting with regards to child custody services (don’t know the word).

My contact in the support group (whom also knew a lot about borderline ex’es) advices me to, amongst other things, to support my ex if she were to seek therapy (she’s already seeing a therapist) and treatment for borderline (she has requested a spot at an institution, and will be visiting soon). All this to ensure my son the best possibilities of growing up under healthy circumstances.

I guess I’ll have to go through with the no contact (exceptions for child related matters), and a formal divorce (or break up and separation of economy etc, as we’re not married). I have been contacting her a little, as I am desperate for some answers - guess I won’t have any truthful ones, but I just felt I needed to try for the sake of my own healing process. And, I’ll admit it, as a small, shameful part of me secretly hopes for a complete breakdown, truthful admittance of everything (even former lies), genuine remorse and maybe ultimately couples counseling and a new chance.

I hear you, and I heed your advice.

But - (and I hear myself negotiating here) - are there really no stories with a better outcome, a small chance of a possible future where all I’ve written above happens, and people push through? My son.. he’ll be permanently scarred from this. He’s already showing some really hurtful signs, crying a bit, asking for family time, calling her when with me and vice versa, and picking up on the ice frontier between us.

Guess it’s a fools hope, and I refuse to be a fool any longer. I’ll have to find a way to kill the thought of us in my head, and to do so without hurting my son - meaning to find a way to "forgiveness" (sounds absurd) - not to get back together, but to be able to co-parent without wanting to spit in her face. Be the bigger person. I am by no means a forgiving person by nature, so I guess this will be a long and painful road of self improvement for me.

Anyone with "co-parenting with borderline exes"-experience out there?

First welcome to SI, sorry you had to find us but glad you did.

are there really no stories with a better outcome, a small chance of a possible future where all I’ve written above happens, and people push through?

There are success stories here but it takes years and a lot work, especially on the WS side. You cannot drag someone through reconciliation, she has to be a willing participant. She is still cheating and lying to you. Time to go NC and prepare your plan B.

I know one person who was diagnosed as Borderline and she is a piece of work. She had two affairs and then divorced. Her 6 children chose to live with their father. Dealing with a borderline is exhausting. Take a breath. Give yourself time alone. You might find relief in not worrying about her every minute.

She might never be marriage material.

So sorry that you've had to join us. This is the worst pain to get through. Please read in the Healing Library and the pinned posts at the top of the forum.

What is going to be worse for your child? Going through a breakup of the parents now, or seeing the relationship between you & your WW (wayward wife) to follow growing up?

I know it's hard, but you will make it through this. Please keep posting & ask questions.

a hard yes on the co-parenting .. as far as spitting in her face, you just need some time to lick your wounds on this one buddy. you’re not over this and the idea of being over it might seem a little out of reach right now, but given some time it won’t. when you don’t care for her so much, you’ll lose some of the animosity, and all of the truth that you feel like you need will start to seem irrelevant, because when she doesn’t matter anymore, the truth about all the things that she’s done won’t matter so much either. on the co-parenting side, living in a joint custody type situation may not seem to be picture perfect, but it can be better than living with parents that don’t mesh. i never used the term borderline, but i have used the word narcissist and if it’s not exactly the same, they’re at least related. i can say this, without all of the toxicity in the house, me and my kids have a better relationship than we ever had before… sorry you’re here bro, and most of us have been in the (almost exact) shoes you’re walking in. it didn’t end us, and it won’t end you either ✊🏻stay strong, keep your head up

[This message edited by reborn07 at 2:02 AM, Thursday, January 19th]

Thanks again, guys. It’s comforting to know there are good people out there who wish me well. I kinda felt your support today, talking to my ex, remembering your words as we talked. ❤️

I didn’t manage to stay emotionally strong, broke my poker face a few times and tears came, both of us. It’s hard. She shows regret, but only to the fact that she didn’t tell me about him sooner, not the act itself. She has created a narrative where she was "starting to believe in us again, and realized she had to tell me sooner or later". Probably so that she can get out of this without feeling guilt at all - "she didn’t destroy us, because I chose to end it when I found out" and "she didn’t cheat, she just should have told me about him". What a piece of work she is. I did however manage to stick to my demands of her sorting out the mess she made economically, she made promises I hope she keeps, but I guess time will tell.

Anyways, she probably is right about one thing: I’m having real difficulties setting our sons needs before my own right now. The balance of setting boundaries for myself, by not allowing her into my life, and being able to spend time together as a family now and then AND allowing her to take him to activities in "my" time, as my son has expressed a need for. She is really close with him, they spent a lot of quality time together, and I’m gonna have to work out an arrangement where we cooperate on some level in our separate weeks as well. I know she would allow me to hang out with him in "her" weeks, so I guess it’s my anger with her right now that’s stopping me from doing what’s right for him.

Guess I should text her, say something like "it’s ok to invite to activities, but always contact each other first. I’m trying to get to a point where we can spend "family" time together without him picking up in my resentment for you, but I’ll need some time to get there and you have to respect that."

Seems ok?

I’m having real difficulties setting our sons needs before my own right now. The balance of setting boundaries for myself, by not allowing her into my life, and being able to spend time together as a family now and then AND allowing her to take him to activities in "my" time, as my son has expressed a need for. She is really close with him, they spent a lot of quality time together, and I’m gonna have to work out an arrangement where we cooperate on some level in our separate weeks as well. I know she would allow me to hang out with him in "her" weeks, so I guess it’s my anger with her right now that’s stopping me from doing what’s right for him.

What's best for you son is NOT you capitulating to your ex's agenda. What's typically best for kids is stability and sanity. Your cheater made choices which effectively ended your family dynamic. So now, you're a single dad and she's a single mom. Co-parenting does not have to be contentious but neither does it have to be overly familiar. Your cheater has forfeited the right to make demands of you and she did that by CHOICE.

My advice to you would be to get with an attorney and set up a formal parenting agreement that you can hold her to. I've noticed that lots of divorced parents include a clause which allows them the first right of refusal when it comes to the other parent getting a sitter or whatnot. Something like that might increase your parenting time. Cheaters are typically pretty selfish and chances are that in practice, she won't want all the allotted time.

As a parent, you already know that it's so much more important to focus on what your child NEEDS as opposed to what he wants. Setting up a solid parenting plan can actually make your kid feel more secure. He might complain, but that's what kids do. Kids feel more secure though when parents are firmly in charge and boundaries are known and respected.

This break up is new for you, and painful. Your impulse will be to try and recover the status quo. Setting up firm boundaries will feel counterintuitive. The reality though is that you are a much more effective parent and a much more attractive prospect for R when your boundaries are strong. Stepping back will also help you break through your emotional enmeshment so that healing can begin earlier.

Reconciliation takes two, but it has to be on YOUR terms, not hers. When you win the "pick me" dance, the prize is a an unrepentant cheater who hasn't learned a thing. You'd spend the remainder of your relationship with her living under the Sword of Damocles. She has to change and if she doesn't, your best bet is to be as far removed emotionally from her as possible.

Boundaries are your friend, but more than that, they INCREASE your options.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:06 PM, Thursday, January 19th]

From your original post, it appears that over your 12 year relationship you took "breaks" from each other. How did you co parent then, and why is this different? Is it because you feel this one is permanent?

I think some of the difficulty you are facing is that realistically your relationship with her wasn't perceived as being permanent by her. Perhaps in her mind breaks meant she had the freedom to look elsewhere. I think that's the problem with breaks. They create confusion.

In this case your child is bearing the brunt of that confusion. I agree with setting up a strict custody structure. You can't give your child both parents right now, but you can create a sense of stability in a stressful time.

[This message edited by Charity411 at 6:35 PM, Thursday, January 19th]

From your original post, it appears that over your 12 year relationship you took "breaks" from each other. How did you co parent then, and why is this different? Is it because you feel this one is permanent?

Sorry if I gave the impression of previous breaks - no, this was the first time, but we’ve had incidents of mistrust never properly addressed earlier in our relationship.

I think some of the difficulty you are facing is that realistically your relationship with her wasn't perceived as being permanent by her. Perhaps in her mind breaks meant she had the freedom to look elsewhere. I think that's the problem with breaks. They create confusion.

You are right about this. That’s her story, her reasoning when she says this wasn’t cheating, even though she admits she should’ve told me about him. We had rules for our break, and she broke them. We were not to see other people. That’s cheating IMO, but I might just be so hurt by the fact that she chose someone else over me that I’m failing to see the big picture. Not sure about anything anymore. Only that my trust in her is completely gone, and it’s killing me that this should be the end of us and our little family. We’ve scheduled for a talk regarding child custody next week. Side note: she admitted to still having the other guys phone number stored, kinda breaks my heart knowing she’s probably still seeing him.

What a mess I am right now, never been more confused and scared in my life. Hoping to one day be able to contribute to this forum, help others the way you’re helping me - it’s precious advice and comforting in these hard times.

❤️

Thanks for clearing that up. The way it was worded it seemed like she met him on another break.

One thing I would suggest is that you both agree to record your meeting. In situations like these, emotions can take over, and when it comes time to formalize a custody agreement, recollection of what was agreed upon can be very different. Remember, you discussed rules for your break and now she sees those rules differently, and you are right to feel betrayed by that. So you have good reason to record it to make sure that when it comes to your child there is no misunderstanding. It will just be something to protect both of you.

Cluster B Personality Disorders (read up on them) are notoriously difficult to "cure." In fact, most personality disorders are difficult to overcome because they are so firmly rooted in a person's sense of self.

The lying with Cluster B persons is deeply ingrained. As you noted, she lies about things important and inconsequential. This takes a LOT of therapy to challenge and change, and frankly, not many people can do it. They lie as easily as they breathe.

What I would do is what you are doing: pursue a legal custody remedy, detach, seek support and IC and just let her go. Be careful not to badmouth her to your shared child, but I see no reason why age-appropriate truth cannot be told.

I would also do some significant reading on Cluster B personality disorders, particularly BPD. It's very eye-opening. My ex was a diagnosed narcissist and was raised by a BPD mother.

Cat

If you want a success story I am one. We are married though.
The main thing a cheater needs is to think they "WILL LOSE YOU."
Until she has that fear she won't put in the kind of effort you want in your relationship. The effort is the hardest part because she will need to see herself as being the problem in the relationship and put your needs ahead of her own.
Ask yourself how often this has happened? I bet it is rare.
You should start dating someone as quickly as possible. It doesn't and shouldn't be serious. There are 2 reasons to do this.
1: It might wake up your ex to put in effort to win you back. (This happened to me and happens to a lot of men when they leave their partner. Even after some divorces I see women mad at the new wife. This happens even if the woman married someone else. It is a jealousy instinct.) Your girlfriend will think you are waiting for her and pining for her until she knows someone else is moving into your heart. She will then have to decide if she tries to stop you from going for this new girl or if she lets you go. If you never go, she is never forced to make that decision and her leaving is a slow slide.
2: It makes you realize you are desirable and you can see a life with someone new. This takes all the energy you are putting into your past partner into someone new. Don't expect returns on that energy, just know it isn't causing your past relationship to trigger you harm. It puts blinders onto you about whatever your ex is doing.
Good luck and you are going to be ok. Just get someone new, so she has to question if letting you go was a mistake. She doesn't have to consider that because you aren't moving on.

Context: Our relationship had gone sour, communication was terrible, and we both neglected each other both physically and emotionally. A lot of bumps in the road

J - nothing you did or did not do caused her to cheat. She did it because she wanted to.

I disagree with the advice about dating for several reasons:

1. it seems like using another person to either feel better about yourself or in a manipulative way to try to get WGF back

2. it does not present stability for your child

3. you need to heal from the cheating first before you can be a safe partner to someone else....

You are doing well by having IC and investigating the custody situation. It's not clear to me whether you are living with WGF now or not, but you would do well to detach - as in

Don't
Even
Think
About
Changing
Her

The 180 can help with that (see BS FAQ, Question 11: What is 180 and how does it work?)

Your old relationship is gone. Whether you decide to offer WGF the gift of potential R is up to you. Whether she is up for the hard work that R entails is up to her. Either way, whether you end up R or not, the old relationship is gone. Any R would mean you are in a new relationship with her.

For now, don't focus on the relationship. Focus on you and your child. Figure out what you want. Once you are able to detach you might find that you don't even want her any more. I know that probably sounds unbelievable now, but give yourself a chance. Take care of you instead of wondering how to get her back / keep her.

((((J))))

So, I’ve been struggling a lot recently. Have been drawn between big regrets and wanting to suggest counseling to patch things up, to give her a second chance (and myself a chance to forgive) - and the smart thing, to follow your advice (and stick to what I’ve told her already: it’s over). Thank god I’ve been listening to you guys!

Now I now she’s lying to me, still. I’ve just found out she is still seeing him, even though she told me she broke it off with him. She spends the nights there when she doesn’t have child custody. No surprise to you guys perhaps, but I have to admit a small part of me believed, or maybe really wanted to believe, that she could’ve been honest with me now - really, after over a decade together, with kids, I kinda hoped she would’ve felt she owed me that much. Nope. The love of my life - a lying, cheating piece of shit. What a f ing bi***.
Pardon my language, I’m just utterly devastated, and so, so angry with her.

Guess I’m certain I made the right call now, and even though it shatters my heart, a small piece of me kinda feels relieved - I now know for a fact I’ve made the right call. Guess it’s months and years of IC for me. Just hope she follows through on her promise of seeking help for her borderline symptoms, because oh lord, does she need it.

I had a moment like that too - where I finally SAW the depth of my xwh's lies and just knew, right then, that it was done. It was 8 months after dday1 for me. I know it's very cold comfort right now, but believe me when I tell you that knowing - really KNOWING - is a gift for you. Yes it hurts like hell, but it also frees you from clinging to dead hope.

For now, take care of YOU. Take care of your kids. And just know that you are going to be okay. I never thought my life would get better, but 4 years on? It's better than I ever believed was possible. You'll get there too.

So sorry. You think that they'll see what they've done wrong and start fixing themselves. I waffled for 18 months before I was done. But when I knew I had done everything & XWH wasn't changing, I had my answer & could move forward. It still hurt like hell, but I knew I was going to heal & be better. I've been D coming up on 2 years, and life is so much better now.

You'll still have good days & bad days, but you will make it through.

If she is dealing with BPD, the safest thing you can do is detach and walk away. If she is going to fix herself, she needs to do it for herself and not as a manipulation tactic to keep you on the hook. I agree with other posters, get an attorney and get a custody agreement hammered out.

Maybe she'll get the help she needs and you can be in a healthy, loving relationship in the future...or maybe not. But in the meantime, focus on you and your kids. Detaching is easier when you go NC and only discuss kids and finances.

It takes years of therapy before a BPD is a safe person to be in a relationship.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 5:42 AM, Wednesday, February 1st]

Sometimes the only way is to work through reality, what’s being offered and what you can accept.

This is the reality: Your GF and the mother of your child has both told you and shown with actions that she doesn’t want a monogamous relationship with you.
The problem is that often people either don’t send clear messages or maybe even aren’t sure of what they want. This situation would be a lot clearer if she outright told you she didn’t want a romantic relationship with you and/or didn’t want a future as a couple. This situation would be a lot clearer if she was with OM, because as a free single woman she CAN decide to be with whomever she wants. If the message was clear then the issue might be helping you accept it.

If you were walking down the street with your friend talking about cars when all of a sudden he turns towards you and punches you in the face I guess you would be surprised. He immediately shows regret, tells you he didn’t mean to punch you and helps you to your feet, while mentioning the new car he has his eyes on. You carry on walking for a minute and again he punches you. Again he repeats the excuses, promises to never punch you again and starts on about the cars.
How often do you need to be punched before you decide that maybe you two can walk together, but maybe with some distance between you. Or that maybe you shouldn’t be so involved in his car-issues. Or that maybe he isn’t your friend, that you have completed that friendship.

That’s where you are IMHO. You can decide to walk near her, and maybe even in a common direction. But right now it sounds like she isn’t clear where she’s headed. IMHO it’s up to YOU to set the course and then its totally on her if she follows or not. All you can do is possibly encourage and possibly pace yourself, but you need to head your course.

That course? Often when posters find this site they think the goal is to reconcile their relationships or to divorce, or to find ways of living with infidelity.
I don’t agree with that…
I think the goal is to get out of infidelity. To leave it behind. I also think that irrespective of R, D or whatever we never "leave" it – it scars us for life. But the goal is to reach a place where it no longer dominates our thoughts, our interactions with others and our lives.

To me there are two good ways out of infidelity. We can reconcile or we can divorce (separate). That’s it. There are a couple of other options like rug-sweeping, or ignoring the affair or whatever. But I think the first two are the good, realistic ways.

OK – That’s a long start to the post, but here is what I think:
Your GF has set off on a path. I don’t know what that path is, but it’s neither healthy nor good, and your role isn’t clear.
You cant control that. She can date the OM or any other man for that matter. She is free to do what she wants.

What you can control is where you are headed. I hope that is out of infidelity.
Tell your GF something along these lines:
You are free to be with OM and whatever. I place no obligation or have any expectation of you. I am moving on. I will strive to be the best coparent I can for the sake of our child, but I need some emotional distance from you while we establish a non-romantic relationship moving forwards.

Then leave.
Get everything in order.
Is there a formal custody arrangement? Is it clear how support and benefits go?
Do you have any joint asset or debt or commitment?
Clarify everything. Start the process of separating your lives.

You don’t have to hate her, but as a rule people that separate don’t hang around being friends. It’s OK if you can, and possibly in a year or two it makes sense. But for NOW distance yourself. Detach. Recover emotionally.