SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello everyone, new guy here and obviously completely gutted to find out everything I have in the past couple of days. I guess I should start with some background information. My W and I will be married 30 years this year and have been together for 36 years. We met while in college and I was a very naive 19-year-old virgin who was starved for attention from the fairer sex. I had dated a bit here and there but nothing serious. I met my W through a mutual friend that she worked with. Our first meeting was very interesting as the first words she said to me was "ooo, I want some" and removed the Rayban wayfarer sunglasses from my face. I was automatically infatuated that a girl this beautiful gave me this type of attention upon our first meeting. Anyway, from there we became friends even though she was much more friendly than any girl I had ever met we started a friendship. As time went by we began to hang out all the time together. I would spend time at her apartment and even spend the night lying next to her holding her hand. This was all strictly plutonic and there was never any sexual contact of any sort. As time went by I became the confidant. She would tell me about all her dates or hook ups and I would have to suffer as she would go out on dates while I was there trying to get her attention for that same purpose. She would tell me about her trysts like I was her girlfriend, which in retrospect I guess I was. I knew the details of all her exploits at the time she was somewhere around the dozen mark at 18 years old. I said to myself it did not bother me but it obviously did. As time went on every now and then we would kiss and spend a lot of time together, that is unless she had a date. I could tell when there was someone new as she would not kiss me on the lips but offer her cheek instead. As time went on (about 7 months) one day she called me and told me she loved me, I thought yes, finally what I have been waiting for all this time. A short time later we had sex and that was the start of our romantic relationship. Through the progression of our relationship, she would deny me certain things sexually or be very cold towards me which would trigger me to throw her past in her face. "You did everything with him, but I have to beg for it", was how most of the fights went along.

After six years dating, I asked her to marry me and she happily accepted. Fast forward through many years of fights and arguments over sex and one amazing child, things were not great in our relationship. We seemed to be constantly fighting, mostly over sex or the things I would ask for and be denied. It always went back to you did everything for all the other guys, but I have to beg for anything I want or need.

So, the relationship went from good to bad like a rollercoaster neither of us could get off of. So fast forward to February 2024. We had begun to try and work on more of the sexual issues we have had for the entire marriage and things were starting to get better. One day, for what reason I don't know I walked by her nightstand and there was a journal that I had bought her years ago. It had been there for years but for some reason this day I picked it up and thumbed through it. What I found made my stomach drop. It was a poem or lyrics to a song that she had been writing that outlined she had been with a guy who happened to be a very close personal friend and was a groomsman in our wedding! It had date specific lyrics and references to pinpoint that she had been with him six months before our wedding. There were also specific things that told the story of exactly who the person was without a doubt. When we got home that evening, I got the journal and asked her to explain what I had read. At first, she tried to say that it was just a song she was writing and that it did not mean anything. After looking her dead in the eye and asking her if she had slept with him, she admitted to the affair. She claimed that she was drunk and in a bad way because of a death in her family and that it just happened. Well, she had known this person her whole life and we were all good friends at this point.

After finding this out and that she had kept this secret for 30 years I began to ask about anything else that she might need to tell me. A couple of days later we had another conversation about when she wrote the song, and I asked her if anything was going on during that time frame. Well, you all know the answer yes. She said that they had been having a texting and flirting relationship a year ago and that was all it was. I continued to press and come to find out it was more than just messages. They had been meeting to talk and for coffee from time to time. Turns out it was much more than that, they had been messing around in his care and went as far as giving him a BJ in the car in a public parking lot. Well, you can imagine my reaction. Not only was she cheating but it was with the same guy from 30 years earlier who has been part of our lives this whole time. Needless to say, I was devastated and had a reaction you can all relate to.

Having been looking through the forums yesterday I began to wonder if there was anything else she had kept from me, I mean if you can hide something for that long anything is possible. So again, I confront her and tell er that if we have any chance at R I need to have full disclosure about anything and everything that may have happened over the years. So, after much prodding she finally admitted to five other affairs she had while we were together. So, over our time together unmarried she had five separate affairs and while we were married one BJ with the same guy from before.

I am all over the place, emotions are all screwed up, can't eat or sleep and I have never heard myself cry with the type of intensity that I have. I am trying to figure out how to exist at this moment and it is a challenge to say the least. Upon learning about the most recent indiscretion, I agreed to counseling and we do have an appointment next week, but with all of these other revelations I am not sure what to do. She seems remorseful and has already cut complete contact with the guy and agreed to any tracking or monitoring I ask for. I just don't know if I have the strength to carry on. There have also been new revelations of childhood sexual assault she experienced and never got help for so I have to take into consideration that those unresolved issues may have led to all of this but I'm not sure.

Sorry for such a long-drawn-out post, but I needed to get some of this out and I am asking for any advice on how to cope until I decide what I want to do and how to get there. Thanks for reading.

Oh man. I am so sorry this happened to you.

You must be a real maelstrom inside. If I were you, I would feel that I had been used as a utility for my whole adult life.

I want to recommend you don't jump to reconcile. Marriage counseling is a mistake at this time. Individual counselling for yourself is probably a good idea, along with a punching bag a barbell and some plates.

Don't drink. Don't medicate it away. Don't let her rush you through your grief. DO NOT believe she told you everything. That is almost never true early on.

Again, so sorry.

Sorry you have to deal with this. The brain trying to reprogram itself to this new reality is very painful and unfortunately time is the only thing that helps with that. I agree with the previous post recommending not to jump to reconciliation. Take some time to get your bearings. Consider individual counseling for yourself.

Is the other guy married? I’m sort of a pessimist, but I never believe they cut off communication this early on. I tend to believe they still want to see if they can have their cake and eat it two. If he is married, let the other spouse know.

Have you reached out to the friend or vice versa?

The guy is married but it is unique situation as both he and his spouse have also had affairs. I told my W that I was going to contact his wife because I would want to know if that was me I would want someone to tell me. The only comment from him was a reply to the text my W sent telling him that I knew every thing and she needed to cut contact to work on her marriage. His reply was, "Understood, I am so sorry. I never meant to cause any pain." I thought I knew this guy as he has been in our lives our entire time together but it seems he has no balls. My wife and him actually discussed leaving each spouse and getting together but he was only interested in sex. My W said it was just a stupid fantasy that was not real, but they were carrying on like it was real.

[This message edited by 30YearLie at 12:30 AM, Friday, February 9th]

My wife and him actually discussed leaving each spouse and getting together but he was only interested in sex.

So if he wanted more than sex, your wife would have been planning her exit. Focus on yourself right now. Think about how you want the future to play out for you.

When I first posted about my wife’s affair I was taken back by some of the responses. In fact I rejected them and stopped coming back to this site. Then, after some time passed I was able to see the comments were valid. Cheaters all tend to say and do the same thing. The people here will help you avoid being gas lighted and lied to. No one says stuff just to hurt you or cause you pain. We want to help.

Having said that, have you considered she might have had other affairs during your marriage? It doesn’t make sense to me she would have 5 affairs before marriage and only one during the 30 year marriage. It’s important for you to know if you’re dealing with a serial cheater, because the serial cheater will just keep doing it.

I know and have asked her that. She said once we were married something clicked and she did not do anything for all that time. The latest affair was familiar so I tend to believe her in that regard. The familiarity and the fantasy of what might have been was supposedly the driving force. When he said it wasn't going anywhere she decided that it was a bad idea. Not sure what would have happened if he had been on board with leaving his spouse but that wasn't what he was prepared to do. She saw something that wasn't there but tried to make her fantasy reality and it did not work.

Sorry for your painful situation.

She needs IC. You should probably get some too. I am no expert but her childhood abuse may well have led to her sexual behavior when in college. It sounds like she couldn't turn it off once she found she loved you. I am not saying that means you should stay with her just that it makes sense as a rationale for the early betrayals with the 5 guys. It also makes sense for her rejecting certain types of sex with you, because you are "different". I am not sure it is as relevant for the latest A. But either way, if you want to R then she really needs IC. Probably a lot of IC.

She may be telling the truth about her history because she confessed a lot to you. She also could be lying because she went from lots of sexual partners including 5 APs to just you... possible for sure but also possible she is minimizing her As while married. Quite a few people here used polygraphs to help discern the truth.

Not Just Friends and How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair are two really solid books she should be reading.

Respectfully, you should not believe what you are told by your WW. She has lied to you for decades. Also, I would bet at least some inappropriate EA or acting out behaviours in the 30 year "clean" period. She didn't go cold turkey and white knuckle that long with no treatment.

So sorry you are going through this. Finding out not only about your WW’s most recent affair, but also that she was a serial cheater before you were married is truly heartbreaking.

As others have said, I would be wary you have the full scope. You mention your wife having many partners before you became exclusive and then several more WHILE you were supposed to be exclusive. Sex has always been a trouble spot through your marriage. It is unlikely that "switch just clicked off" when you were married until her most recent affair. Unfortunately, I speak from experience. You can read my story under my profile for the full picture. So far, your wife has admitted to the recent affair you caught her in but also says it "was only a BJ". She has admitted to the one affair you caught her in but when pressed has also admitted to cheating while you were dating but not since being married. She’s probably aware that would be "worse" in your view and may lead to you ending the marriage.

In my own personal experience I have dealt with multiple lies and minimization. 3 APs became 7. 7 then became 11. There are probably more. "We just kissed" became "only a BJ" which became dozens of BJs and multiple intercourse. And so on. A 13 year "gap" in the affairs was a lie that had 3 ONS and a 2 year LTA in the "clean period". And so on.

Marriage Counseling (MC) is tricky this early after D-Day (and before you likely have the full story). MC within weeks (and days) of my D-Days almost killed any chance we had at R. Be prepared to hear your WW be defended for her choices, blame shifted onto YOU (unmet needs) and quickly sweeping the affairs under the rug to "focus on the marriage and the future". This is what MCs do.

Have you WW write out a complete and full disclosure of all of her sexual activities outside the relationship/marriage inclusive of timelines. Follow this up with a polygraph. BOTH of you get into IC. Do not make any decisions to R or D for at LEAST 90 days. You are still in shock.

Buckle up. Your ride is just beginning….

Learning about infidelity is a traumatic, life shattering event. You can't start the recovery process, you cannot start healing, if you live with the person who inflicted the trauma. The reality is, your marriage is over. She ruined it. The best you can hope for (in a reconciliation) is to build something that both of you deem is an acceptable alternative.

Know, cheaters lie and minimize, minimize, minimize. Your wife is a serial cheater. You just met the real woman you married... this is who she is, she was never the woman you thought you married. The woman you trusted and loved is gone. There is nothing you could have done to prevent her cheating. She wanted to, she gave herself permission, and then justified her choice to cheat.

Know, you will never fully know the truth. There is no benefit for your wife to be 100% honest. Hence the lies and then the trickle of what she wants you to know. If she admits to oral sex in a public parking lot, as bad as that seems (if it's actually true) there is much more there. There were hundreds of smaller betrayals that lead to the ultimate betrayal.

I'm sorry this has happened to you.

[This message edited by Apollos at 3:29 AM, Friday, February 9th]

Im sorry sir. These revelations must be crushing. I can only say that a one time betrayal, albeit with my erstwhile and forever ex best friend, about did me in. I tried to move past/through/around it for 10 years before it ended. I deeply regret not divorcing immediately but had small children at the time which weighed heavily on me. In retrospect, it would have been better for all of us had I divorced her.

I have moved on, remarried and built a wonderful life with an amazing woman who is also a betrayal survivor.

As you process this:

Sorry for such a long-drawn-out post, but I needed to get some of this out and I am asking for any advice on how to cope until I decide what I want to do and how to get there. Thanks for reading.

I recommend that you do take as much time as you need to sort through this. You may need to get away from her for a while in order to get more clarity. After all, if she can betray and deceive you for years, you can and should take all the time you need to get clarity.

Im not going to advise one way or another (R or D), but advise that you read extensively in the reconciliation and wayward forums and to get expanded perspective. I believe it will prove an eye opener.

As for me, I am glad my ex cheater is in my rearview and my new life is my current reality.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 2:26 PM, Friday, February 9th]

As for me, I am glad my ex cheater is in my rearview and my new life is my current reality.

Me too.

I IMPLICITLY TRUSTED HER. I was never insecure, especially about my marriage. We hung out. Got along. Had fun. Laughed. Texted throughout the day (called before texting was a thing). Enjoyed each other's company. She always said she was the lucky one, she married up, that she hit the "husband lotto". We had a very active sex life. That was the one thing we always did well. Even after I found out, I was confident it wasn't because the sex was bad/boring or I was selfish in bed or I ignored her outside the bedroom.

It turns out she was a serial cheater too and I learned afterward she was a Cluster B personality (HPD, BPD).

I caught her Nov 20,2020. I had the 4-hour What's App conversation arranging the lunch rendezvous and she still denied it. They met between 12:30-1:00. He called her later. I answered the call, spoke to him in front of her, he confessed AND she admitted to it. Then, she only admitted to what was already known and minimized it, saying she didn't really remember the sex part because it wasn't about sex... she was just happy he wasn't "disappointed when he saw me".

Once I understood she was someone who could do that and lie about it to my face, I started connecting the dots, piecing together info, comments, behavior, etc over the 27yr marriage and it made sense. It is traumatic to know your wife was that woman who didn't love you, who invested her time. effort, love, affection in other men.

Again, it's been 3yrs and I have only recently gotten through to the other side of this... where the damage doesn't dominate my thoughts or control my life. The one book that pulled everything together for me was Cheating In A Nutshell. Changed my life. It did more for me than multiple therapists, group therapy, talking to other BSs, hitting the gym, etc etc etc.

Keep your head up. It gets better. I promise.

[This message edited by Apollos at 4:04 PM, Saturday, February 10th]

My reco:

Don't commit to R until you're sure you want R and you're as sure as you can be that your W will do the work necessary to change from cheater to good partner. Distinguish between what you want and what you will do.

That is, no matter how much you want R,my reco is not to choose R unless you both willing to do the necessary work. If your W is a lousy candidate for R, it might be best for you to go directly to D. By the same token, your WS may be a great candidate for R, but if you have to force yourself to R, maybe D is a better choice for you.

Serial cheating probably necessitates more, and more difficult healing work by the WS, but some serial cheaters do what they need to do. Through the years, SI has had several members who were serial cheaters and who contributed a LOT to SI and to SIers.

I recommend thinking of R as 3 healings:

1) You heal you. Most BSes are inundated with immense amounts of one or more of grief, anger, fear, shame on d-day. The largest part of your work is to process those feelings out of your body. A good IC can help you do this.

2) Your WS heals themmself. They need to change from cheater to good partner. I think that requires IC for the WS, but others disagree.

3) Together you build a new M.

This means you can recover from being betrayed without your WS; that is, you can survive this crisis and thrive without your WS, but you need your WS to R. You can heal yourself because you control yourself. You don't control your WS. I recommend making 'survive and thrive' your primary goal and R your stretch goal.

Have you read the Healing Library here? If not, there's a lot of good stuff there. Click the link in the yellow box in the upper left of the SI pages.

I think there are a number of keys ingredients to R.

First, what do you want? Do you really want R? If not, don't lie to yourself - both R & D are morally good responses to being betrayed. R is hard work, and wanting it makes it less difficult, but it's difficult even when you want it. D, too, is hard work.

I recommend figuring out your requirements for R and seeing if your WS will sign on. If they won't, perhaps they can come up with something else that will meet your requirements, but if you can't negotiate something truly acceptable to both of you, great - you can go directly to D. Otherwise, you can monitor them for 3-6 months and commit to R for yourself if they are (is?) consistent in meeting your requirements.

The requirements need to be observable and measurable. That way it's easy to monitor progress and make adjustments as you go along.

Common requirements include:

NC - no contact with ap; if ap initiates contact, report to BS and together decide how to respond

Transparency - BS has passwords to e-mail, voice-mail, phones, etc.; WS keeps BS informed of whereabouts, activities, and companions at virtually all times

Honesty - WS answers BS's questions when they're asked, although sometimes a break is necessary, sometimes an answer is best deferred to MC session, etc., no more lies.

IC for WS - to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A, with signed release that enables C to talk with BS about WS's goals and progress (so the BS can make sure WS's IC isn't being lied to).

IC for BS - for support - and for resolving any internal issue that comes up

MC - to help communications between the partners. Be careful to avoid MCs who don't deal with the A first. An MC who starts off trying to identify systemic problems probably won't help. You need someone who will help resolve the trauma before going into systemic problems.

Some (Most?) people have individual requirements - my W had to arrange dates for us on a weekly basis and must initiate sex sometimes. What do you want from your W?

And R is a joint endeavor - if one of you hides objections to the other's requirements, you sabotage R. And you have to see your WS as a human being of worth equal to your own to make R work. You don't have to see your WS as a human being whose worth is equal to your own, but you sure can't R, except with an equal.

*****

** NOT posting as staff**

You can't start the recovery process, you cannot start healing, if you live with the person who inflicted the trauma. The reality is, your marriage is over. She ruined it. The best you can hope for (in a reconciliation) is to build something that both of you deem is an acceptable alternative.

Apollos, I'm very sorry your W betrayed you. I have to say, though, that you drew an incorrect conclusion from your experience.

I have no doubt that you made a right decision for yourself. I also have no doubt that your 'reality' is not shared by everyone. Just take a look at the 'Positive Reconciliation Stories' and 'Thankful Thursday' threads in the R forum.

It is eminently possible to R and to build a joyful M and a joyful life after being betrayed. It is eminently possible to start recovery on d-day, whether one lives with one's WS is or not, all other things being equal.

R works for me. That doesn't mean it works for everyone, but it does mean that R is possible in some situations.

Every BS's task is to figure out the best path to follow in their own specific situation.

I have to say, though, that you drew an incorrect conclusion from your experience.

I understand outliers exist...

We can agree learning about your spouse's infidelity is a traumatic event. And, the rule in life is, after a traumatic event the victim is moved to a safe place, away from where the trauma happened. That is how the recovery process begins. Most advice given here (what I've read) would support that, eg separate from the WS to think clearly, gain perspective, etc.

The marriage that existed prior to the betrayal is gone. It will never be the same. How could it be the same? If the alternative happens to be "a joyful marriage and joyful life"... that's simply the result of two people committed to building/creating the alternative that I mentioned. I'm not sure where we disagree. I'll concede that the point of contention is what that alternative looks like.

[This message edited by Apollos at 7:37 PM, Friday, February 9th]

Know, you will never fully know the truth. There is no benefit for your wife to be 100% honest.

To the extent you can, you want to make honesty her winning play. Think about that in your interactions. Reward honesty.

Let's put this in perspective. Your wife and famliy "friend" did soemthing selfish and were actually discussing leaving you and his wife for each other. No matter what the situation is tell his wife and include the leaving for each othe part. Also ask about his affairs. I think they have ben hooking up from time to time all along. 30 year gap makes no sense. Then tell your wife I have to have a serious discussion with "myself". Are you worth it. Right now the answer should be no. Take some time apart from her if you can. See what it is like to be on your own. You need to do that for yourself. This is a moment to moment Day to Day Month to Month Tear to Year thing. No time constraints on the pain and aftermath. You have to take "your" time and deal with it on your own.

First of all I want to that everyone who has responded your thoughts are definitely a bright spot in all of this. Since the revelation of what happened we have had many tearful and drawn-out discussions about the things that happened. Things that I probably felt back when they happened but just pushed them aside as being paranoid or reading too much into things. It would seem my gut feelings were correct, and I need to depend on those feelings now more than ever.

With that being said some other revelations have come to light that are also hard to deal with. I knew that my wife had been sexually abused as a child, multiple times. What I did not know is that the abuse was never reported and never treated. She has lived her whole life with that specter hanging over her and that could have led to the behaviors that were exhibited. She was exhibiting those behaviors before we were together and my assumption that they would have stopped once we were together were wrong. I am not saying that is an excuse because everyone knows right from wrong, but I really need to understand how those untreated traumas could have allowed my W to make decisions someone without sexual trauma would have made. There is still so much to go through and sort through, but I have to consider this in my decision making. Has anyone dealt with this type of extra trauma in their experiences?

Something else I would like some feedback on is if I should have a conversation with the AP? I feel that his wife should know about what happened but if I go straight to her then I look like I am trying to get revenge for what happened. I feel like I need to meet and discuss what happened to see if there is any more to the story from 30 years ago and from more recently that I have not been told. I also want to give him the opportunity to tell his W because I know what a lie like that can do once it comes to light. Thoughts?

[This message edited by 30YearLie at 10:37 PM, Friday, February 9th]

30YearLie

is I should have a conversation with the AP?

Sounds like he is a bit of a Lothario, and his wife deserves to know to preserve her agency. I don't believe telling his wife is revenge at all. It's just protecting your interest. The more poeple who know,the less likely it is an affair will go underground.. That is, if something is still going on. And given her history, that could be the case.

As far as talking to him, he's somebody you've know for years, so you would be in the best position to know whether any conversation would be fruitful. If I were in your shoes, I would just ask myself whether I thought I'd be better off with, or without, a conversation with him, depending on my knowledge of him over the years. In my case, all those years ago, I don't believe a conversation with the AP would have been anything but further upsetting. But he wasn't someone I knew beforehand. I do believe he was a narcissistic Lothario though, making any conversation useless.

[This message edited by Adolfo at 11:07 PM, Friday, February 9th]

I am a WS, childhood sexual abusive survivor and attempted sexual assault survivor. I could be your WW. When my BS discovered my affair 17 years ago I also played the sexual abuse card. Went to therapy for a year and we rugswept. Ask me how it’s going.

Let me be clear she absolutely needs to go to therapy for that and it is going to take a lot of time to fix. But that does nothing to fix your marriage. Plenty of people cheat without sexual abuse, plenty of people with sexual abuse don’t cheat. Unless she figures out why she did, she will do it again. If she didn’t deal with it the chances are high she did do it other times you don’t know about.

Healing that needs to be separated from the trauma she dealt to your marriage.