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I found out about my H’s affair last June, someone sent me messages. He had been living and working in Thailand for 18 months up to that point. We had a good marriage despite living two different sides of the world. We would see each other as a family every 6 weeks and it was great, not always easy; I was lonely, sometimes it was hard. He was 8 weeks into his new job when he met her, a Thai woman, in a bar. She was already with a wealthy, older westerner-it would seem that my H, a 42 yr, old had better appeal than a man in his late 60’s.
He came home in June and we discussed moving forward, he wanted to work on our marriage-he had no intention of staying with her beyond his contract ending. He flew back having ended it and we spent the next 6 months working through things. It was going very well. It was damn hard, I found out all there was to know (oh my ears), and he was extremely remorseful (this is a very watered down version of what had been a heck of a journey).
In December last year, I found out that he had seen her a handful of times. I always knew he wasn’t ready to end it-after all, it had been found out-and gave him every opportunity to tell me that.
I’m angry. I’m angry that he did that and said he was working on our marriage. I’m angry that he said he chose me-he didn’t.
It’s over this time because he was ready. We also found out that it was her that messaged me back in June. She had also taken messages off of his phone between us, she has photos of me, there’s so much more to it.
When I found out in December (she contacted me when he ended it and was vile beyond belief) she contacted him on last time to tell him I had contacted her other person (not true, I don’t even know who he is), and that she had lost the one thing she wanted to keep.
My H is suffering. He is finally trying to take action where he hadn’t before (address drink issues, loneliness, avoidance etc). He’s having therapy. This has also effected his job-he has effectively lost it and now needs to find one in the UK because until I feel that we can safely move forward, I will not go anywhere else.
I feel I am back to June again but this time a lot stronger. I keep asking myself if it is worth it? I have built a renewed sense of worth since June and I feel I am compromising that.
I am stuck

I'm very sorry you are going through this. A couple of things to remember:

1) Your H cheated because of his own issues, not because of issues with you or your M. You didn't fail. He did.

2) On the 1st page of the JFO forum, there are a number of threads that should be easy to recognize because of the bull's-eyes next to the titles. I recommend checking them out. I also recommend reading the 1st post in the WS forum's https://survivinginfidelity.com/topics/324250/things-that-every-ws-needs-to-know/ - that will probably give you insight into behaviors to look for in your H, if he's a good candidate for R.

3) Have faith in yourself to heal. You really can survive and thrive, whether you R or not.

******

I recommend thinking of R as 3 healings:

1) You heal you. Most BSes are inundated with immense amounts of one or more of grief, anger, fear, shame on d-day. The largest part of your work is to process those feelings out of your body. A good IC can help you do this.

2) Your WS heals themmself. They need to change from cheater to good partner. I think that requires IC for the WS, but others disagree.

3) Together you build a new M.

This means you can recover from being betrayed without your WS; that is, you can survive this crisis and thrive without your WS, but you need your WS to R. You can heal yourself because you control yourself. You don't control your WS. I recommend making 'survive and thrive' your primary goal and R your stretch goal.

Have you read the Healing Library here? If not, there's a lot of good stuff there. Click the link in the yellow box in the upper left of the SI pages.

I think there are a number of keys ingredients to R.

First, what do you want? Do you really want R? If not, don't lie to yourself - both R & D are morally good responses to being betrayed. R is hard work, and wanting it makes it less difficult, but it's difficult even when you want it.

I recommend figuring out your requirements for R and seeing if your WS will sign on. If they won't, perhaps they can come up with something else that will meet your requirements, but if you can't negotiate something truly acceptable to both of you, great - you can go directly to D. Otherwise, you can monitor them for 3-6 months and commit to R for yourself if they are (is?) consistent in meeting your requirements.

The requirements need to be observable and measurable. That way it's easy to monitor progress and make adjustments as you go along.

Common requirements include:

NC - no contact with ap; if ap initiates contact, report to BS and together decide how to respond

Transparency - BS has passwords to e-mail, voice-mail, phones, etc.; WS keeps BS informed of whereabouts, activities, and companions at virtually all times

Honesty - WS answers BS's questions when they're asked, although sometimes a break is necessary, sometimes an answer is best deferred to MC session, etc., no more lies.

IC for WS - to change the thoughts and feelings that supported the A, with signed release that enables C to talk with BS about WS's goals and progress (so the BS can make sure WS's IC isn't being lied to).

IC for BS - for support - and for resolving any internal issue that comes up

MC - to help communications between the partners. Be careful to avoid MCs who don't deal with the A first. An MC who starts off trying to identify systemic problems probably won't help. You need someone who will help resolve the trauma before going into systemic problems.

Some (Most?) people have individual requirements - my W had to arrange dates for us on a weekly basis and must initiate sex sometimes. What do you want from your W?

And R is a joint endeavor - if one of you hides objections to the other's requirements, you sabotage R. And you have to see your WS as a human being of worth equal to your own to make R work. You don't have to see your WS as a human being whose worth is equal to your own, but you sure can't R, except with an equal.

@sisoon
Thank you for your advice.
My current anger stems from having covered pretty much what you advise from finding out in June to finding out H hadn’t quite finished with the AP. During that time we both had individual therapy, I spent much of my time reading absolutely everything I could and we began rebuilding from the ground up. After 6 months, I had reached a place of acceptance and was looking forward to the next 6 months.

I’m furious right now that he carried on despite me regularly asking if he had been ready to giver her up and his answer being a yes.

He has always been one to control an outcome and believed he had t ended it the way he wanted-which I get. I just wish he had said that and I could have made a better informed decision.

I know it wasn’t me or our M, what he did was easy (I wasn’t there) and his choice of partner was easy too-he didn’t have to work for that!

I’m just very disappointed that he did return. He knew what she was about when we discovered more about her.

I’m gutted because i had made good progress mentally over the 6 months.
It would have seemed that we were making things work.
Now, although I am much stronger than I ever have felt, I still feel let down. I feel I have let myself down by accepting it this time. That’s my issue now.

When you have a new discovery like this, it resets your healing clock to zero. Sorry that he's been such a jerk. While you might have thought you were reconciling, he was still actively cheating. You were gracious enough to work on healing and your M, but he stomped that into the ground.

You may want to have STD/STI testing done so that you don't get a gift from the A that doesn't go away. There are some that can cause cancer.

See a solicitor to understand your rights or what it might look like should you decide to D. Not saying you will D, but knowledge is power.

Take good care of yourself. Eat healthy, drink lots of water, get some exercise every day (even just a long walk), and make sure you are sleeping. This helps your body, mind and emotions. See your doctor if you can’t sleep, and drink protein shakes if you are not eating.

I want to reiterate that his cheating has 0% to do with you. Don’t think for a minute that this is because of anything you have done or not done. This is 100% to do with him and his flaws. He needs to dig deep and figure out how and why he was able to cheat on you.

First, your anger is totally understandable. Shouting it out on SI is entirely understandable. But your anger is yours to deal with. What are you doing besides venting on SI?

Have you told your H in no uncertain terms that you are furious with him? Have you considered whether what appears to be false R is too much to accept? Is this the last straw you can carry, but if he adds anything else, like another lie (even a trivial one), you will throw him out of your life? (There is a slew of other optons, too.)

Only you can process your anger. Only you have the power to process your anger - and you do have the necessary power.

You know you're angry. You know a lot about why you're angry. What next step will you choose?

*****

Gently, he's dragged you through a false R. My reco is to figure out if that's enough to choose D and, if it's not, to figure out what your boundaries are. It takes 2 to R. What is your WS doing to do his part?

Love is not enough to R. Going NC is not enough. Continued lies simply make R much harder to succeed at. If the WS doesn't change from cheater to good partner, R won't work.

@sisoon

Yes, we have spoken about my anger. Yes, I have set boundaries.

My H is doing what we had planned to facilitate R.

I understand that my anger is for me to sort out, I understand that only I can choose to change this.

I wasn’t venting as such, I was looking for advice. It’s difficult isn’t it, the judgement we all face from all sides.

Your anger isn't a problem. It is 100% normal and healthy to be angry right now.

He put you through false R for months.

He saw your pain and devastation, and didn't care.

He took the affair underground, and lied to you,every minute of every day.

False R is very difficult to get past.

It's ok to decide this is too much.

Infidelity is a form of abuse. Its normal to be angry at your abuser.

So..what is he doing differently? During false R he made all the right moves, and pretended to be a remorseful WS. So, now that he is actually done with the affair, what is he doing differently? How can he possibly prove he's really remorseful now, when you thought he was remorseful before?

He has a ton of work to do. Your job right now,is to take care of yourself, detach, and watch his actions. His words mean nothing. Maybe he will prove to be reconciliation material. Maybe not.

[This message edited by HellFire at 8:18 PM, Tuesday, February 13th]

@hellfire

That’s what I intend to do now, I can’t do much more other than ask for action and see if it happens-so far it is.

I think, to be honest, I’m angry at myself as well for feeling angry again (if that makes sense!)
I had come such a long way during June-December and although I keep harking on about my strength, I feel like I am back at ground zero.

I knew he wasn’t ready, after all the A was ended for him not by him and really I should have kept a distance then to give each of us time. He was still keeping his options open.

It’s truly difficult. He’s in one country, I another and I really don’t have anyway of knowing what he’s doing. I feel like I can’t keep living a life where I ask him to video call me round the condo, check his socials/mails etc, it’s exhausting.

I believe he is and was remorseful. As hard as this may sound for some people, I do believe he needed to end it his way and eventually he did.
That doesn’t make it better for me but it does give me hope that he did actually end it because he saw our relationship getting better (twisted, I know.)

I’m just in a place now where I don’t know if I can compromise myself and that’s probably down to what I think people will think of me. That’s for me to sift through.

I’m just in a place now where I don’t know if I can compromise myself and that’s probably down to what I think people will think of me. That’s for me to sift through.

Do you have your own therapist to work with? I highly suggest this.

False R is extremely hard to move past. I couldn't move past it as I felt I was compromising myself not because of what others thought but my own thoughts about it. My xWS was not remorseful so I think that too added to my feeling compromised. But whether he is remorseful or not it will come down to what you feel is best for yourself in the end. It does take time to figure this out. I would give yourself grace and work on making yourself the priority. Lots of self care and continue building your self worth. It's good he is doing things different this time, but does not guarantee R. You may change your mind later that this was a dealbreaker and that is ok too.

@crazyblindsided

Thank you.

Yes, I have been seeing a therapist, it’s helped me a great deal through this.

False R is indeed hard, I’m finding this part harder than finding out about the A itself.

And you are right, I know it will eventually come down to how I feel. It’s good to hear from others who have been through this. I know one other person that this has happened to. Speaking with them has been tough because despite my friend working through things with her partner, she has been quite harsh with me-thinks I’m wrong for wanting to R. I find that difficult but I guess everyone’s story is different.

Time is what I need to take, I know this.

Thank you all for your perspectives.

Els78, all the replies you have been given are going to help you cope. Not sure if my perspective will add anything to what has already been said. But just wanted to say that I've seen this pattern play out among overseas working professionals from not only UK but also NZ, where my WH's family is. I have always been amazed at their cultural acceptance of long distance marriage, where one partner will travel across the world for weeks or months at a time, because I have seen so much infidelity happen that way. Scares me. But I fear it is almost a culturally-sanctioned thing.

I wonder if your WH may have been one of many such men he knows who were doing the same. (That this Thai woman already had another country man is not a coincidence. And Thailand is known worldwide to be a free-wheeling sexual culture.)

I just want to say that your WH will have to work on himself against what he may know is a long-standing cultural norm: call it 'men being entitled to women while they maintain a wife and marriage back home.'? (My best friend in high school back in the 1960's had her parent's marriage break up after her father was sent to SE Asia as an "advisor," because of this same problem.)

Must run but just to consider whether this is a larger issue that may not be personal to your marriage, if you can look at it that way?

@superesse

I’m so glad to hear that perspective, I have often thought the same. I’ve had so much experience with Thailand over the years, my own father worked there for some time.
It’s a culture where many people find things easy and are able to take advantage of it.
He is making every possible move to leave now.
I just have get on and see what happens

Els78, just wanted to clarify that I'm an older American female married to a male from 'down under' who came to the USA with all his cultural expectations unchanged, and I have sadly learned how resistant to change such norms can be, regarding (a) travelling the globe as kiwis are fond of doing and (b) what marriage looks like for them, versus my rather provincial expectations when I met this man. The longer I go on with him and his family, the more I sense infidelity is a major issue within a larger cultural milieu of tacit acceptance, rather than just some interpersonal dynamics of the marriage someone enters.

My WH could have married a woman from his country and done her the same way, and he admits that (he used sex workers for his entire adulthood before we got married, and lied about it our entire dating relationship). It was just something he accepted from his culture and thought "no big deal." I'm basing this on things he and his father told me. His sister married a man from UK who remains a frequent traveler, going on global jaunts to go fishing or whatever. I've always been puzzled about how their marriage works, since she's been less than happy at times yet there is "don't air one's dirty laundry among outsiders (like me)," so I cannot say for sure. They have worked hard together to build a business, have made a lot of money and are still "married," I hope happily. She came here with their daughter for a month over Christmas in 2009, and although we invited her H to join us he claimed he couldn't, excuse being he was 'off somewhere else for the holiday.' I just could not fathom missing a month-long holiday trip with your only child and wife, but the entire visit, she kept a brave face of normalcy.

I don't think it would help you to mention this cultural aspect to your WH just yet, as in my experience, it would only give him an excuse not to dig more deeply inside his mind, so he can figure out how he "got permission" to do this kind of thing to your marriage. Yet at some point, he will need to do that.

My WH's defense lawyer he hired after his arrest for soliciting a prostitute (my D-Day 2) asked my WH this very piercing question which no counselor we had seen for a year had ever done! The lawyer then told him to "Ask your father. Because I learned how to treat my wife from watching how my father treated my mother, and he would never dream of hurting her the way you have hurt your wife." I wanted to shout, "EXACTLY!" (That's the same week his father told me "What's the big deal, we see ads for 'girls' in our local paper selling sex out of their homes, right here in the district. Probably 20 every week." I noticed he had counted....hmmm. His mother chimed in "of course, you're not supposed to cheat..." implying that it happens, regardless! She didn't seem too upset, I also noticed.)

[This message edited by Superesse at 6:04 PM, Thursday, February 15th]

@superesse

I’ve spoken to my H a lot about this, he openly admits that he took advantage of the culture and the fact that I wasn’t there.
I’ve always found it sickening seeing "old" westerners parading younger girls about in Thailand (I know I sound judgemental) and now he has become part of that. He is deeply embarrassed by it all and, although it doesn’t make me feel better, would only go to places with her where he wouldn’t be noticed.
I had a lot of reasons for not going with him, I still have no regrets over that but he often talks about being abandoned. He wasn’t.

As an update-in the last 24 hours my husband has been admitted to a hospital in BKK where he is being treated for an aortic aneurysm-he is bleeding out from his stomach. Seeing the photos of him completely alone have topped our two year journey off really. The tears of regret from him for making the decision to leave are sad to say the least.
This whole ordeal has culminated in him losing a job he valued more than his family and the stress of the situation has caused-well, we don’t quite know yet.

Currently, everything else has gone out the window because right now, life is precious.

Oh Els, what shocking news you just got! I suppose there are no words from some stranger on the internet that can comfort you, but please know I am truly sorry for this situation you and he are facing, even though you are so far apart geographically. You are right, life is precious. I am sorry this all has come about in this drastic way. Prayers for healing all around!!

@superesse

Thank you for your kind words

Els78

Vert sorry to read of your husband having aortic aneurysm.

My father died from that - in just a few minutes. He was found lying on floor just after having gotten his lunch out of fridge.
42 years old

How old is your husband? Any history of heart for blood pressure problmes?
I'm confused - you say "bleeding out from his stomach" -- that doesn't make sense unless he is also suffering stomach issues.

???

@hippo16

So sorry to hear about your father. My H is 43.
Sorry for the confusion. He is bleeding internally in his stomach/abdomen. He has an abdominal aortic aneurysm. So far, it’s been clamped but he is still, slowly losing blood and has had several transfusions.
Like I said, it’s so very sad and almost as nothing else matters right now.

Els, following you through the long night as you wait for medical updates. Sounds like they have isolated the problem and may he get the best treatments!

@superesse

Thank you so very much 🤞