SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

A know some on here like their music on the heavier side so I thought a Slipknot reference might be appreciated.

My W was out for a work dinner recently and this work colleague she had never met made a lot of inappropriate comments towards her, tried to buy her repeated drinks and then got very angry with her that she wouldn't join him for a drink after dinner. All while knowing she is married with kids.

Then last weekend she was out for a night out with 2 friends. An attractive trio, so I am not surprised that they had looks. But repeated guys trying to buy them drinks, not leaving them alone. To the point where at the end of the night some guys walked them back to the hotel to make sure they were "safe", but then asked if they could come up.

I know we are not meant to generalise but I know when I am on a night out with mates I don't get this attention from women despite my attractiveness

I just despair that a group of females can't have a night out without being propositioned all night, even after telling guys that they are married with kids.

I fear many people just don't care, and the stories we read on this site are more common than we would even think.

Apologies for the depressing thought

People can debate this all they want, but the facts are:

- men go to bars to try to pick up women

- women go to bars to get attention

I know everyone will argue with my 2nd bullet. If it weren't true:

- they would just go to one of their houses to drink instead of having girls night out at a bar which will cost way more money

- they wouldn't get dolled up to go to the bars. They could wear sweats and a baggy t-shirt.

I won't totally disagree, but there is a big difference between being at someone's house and being at a crowded bar. I don't go to pick up women, I go to listen to music, have fun with mates, get away from the house, etc etc. And same for my W - a bar with a live band playing or a dancefloor is a very different environment to being at someone's house.

And why shouldn't they be allowed to dress up when they go out? If they want to look good, it doesn't mean it is an invitation to be harassed IMO.

But sadly the main crux of your point agrees with mine. It seems many men, married or not, go to try and pick up women, married or not. Not sure what it is like in the states but the costs of going out here are so prohibitive that the clientele seems to be much more 30s / 40s that student age so maybe that contributes.

Edited to add: The reason this has come up is I guess neither my W or I fully appreciated the motives of people before. If I am on a night out and happen to speak to a female member of the species (not a crime I don't believe) there is absolutely no motive. My W used to think there was no motive in the case of most guys who might speak to her (obviously the examples I gave above are different and obvious). But now we are both a lot more aware of this stuff.

Were we naive before?? It saddens me to think the number of people (guys in particular, only because I am a guy) might be willing to do such things.

[This message edited by Ozzy1788 at 12:49 PM, Tuesday, March 19th]

I have had two serious relationships.

The first was love at first sight at a law school photocopier.

That’s the place to pick up chicks in my extensive experience.

Unfortunately you're right. Women generally get hit on,when we leave the house.

It doesn't matter if we're all dolled up.

It doesn't matter if we are wearing a wedding ring.

It doesn't matter if we have our kids with us.

It doesn't matter if we aren't sending out signals.

We get hit on at work,the store, shopping,restaurants, etc.

Even more Unfortunately, politely telling someone no doesn't always work. I had to actually yell at a man in the grocery store to stop talking to me. He couldn't stop trying to convince me to go out with him,have an affair, and he wouldn't shut up about how he thought I looked.

Personally, I find it extremely insulting when a man flirts with me. A smile is fine. A nod is fine. But once they approach, and I say no, and they've seen my ring..or my kid..or my husband..and they continue? They're letting me know they think I have loose morals, and I'd have an affair.

My earliest memory of having a grown man flirt with me was when I was 9 years old. Then, I was well developed by 8th grade. No shortage of grown men hitting on a child. I'm now 50,and it still continues.

I do agree with Golden, about bars. There are plenty of restaurants that have a nice bar,where your wife could go. If she's going for the dance floor, who is she dancing with?

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:16 PM, Tuesday, March 19th]

Women are allowed to go dancing. Women are allowed to dress up.

I refuse to live in world where predatory behavior makes a woman's world smaller and less interesting.

We, as women, have to take precautions. It's a sad state in some ways but it's our reality. But the conversation really ought to be about men (these types of men not all) respecting women. Not women living like shut ins.

My wife is allowed to go dancing.

My wife is allowed to play dress up.

As am I.

With each other.

For ME, dancing with another man is an intimate thing. You are touching another man. They're touching you. Your arms are around each other. Your bodies are touching.

I admit, I don't hang out in clubs,or bars. Never have. And I have only ever danced with my partner, or someone I was attracted to(as a single woman).

Of course women should be able to do what they want,without men feeling entitled to bother them. I just personally don't dance with men I don't know.

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:43 PM, Tuesday, March 19th]

I love Slipknot!

Keeping with my love of song lyrics to convey a message, compare and contrast the songs "Honey I’m Good" by Andy Grammar to "I Don’t Dance" by Ronny Dunn. I think if you at least read the lyrics you’ll get my drift, but both are worth a listen if you have 10 min.

I don’t want a partner who goes out and gets as close as possible to betraying me and then calls it off at the last second and thinks that is virtue. I want the wife that doesn’t touch another man but longs for her time with me.

All that said, Ozzy, I definitely shared that naivetë you describe. I didn’t know the whole adult married world was basically a loosely veiled swinger party. I must have lost my invitation.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 1:49 PM, Tuesday, March 19th]

Hmmm, I can't say I have experienced this at all, Ozzy (I'm in the UK!).

I'm 39, but get told I look no older then 20. I know I'm attractive, my husband says I although I'm oblivious, I get looked at by men a lot. My kids friends have told them they think I'm pretty 🤣 (kids don't lie, eh?).

But I can categorically say I do not go out and constantly get hit on. I've had comments, looks, random chats, but that's it. I have not had men literally proposition me or start harassing me.

I can't say other women that I know personally have experienced this either (to that degree).

Maybe in my younger years when I was more receptive to this type of behaviour, but not now. It just isn't on my radar.

Is all this info coming from your wife?

Oh, and I've listened to slipknot ALOT since dday!!! Especially on the treadmill!!!

Hi Ozzy

First time posting here. I read some of your story and I can't understand why you would think that a known cheater should be going out on a girls night out where she knows men will approach her, buy her drinks and try to seduce her (that's why they are buying her drinks). Your marriage stands to gain absolutely nothing from that.
Instead of working hard on proving to you that she is worth keeping in a position of a wife, she goes out. GoldenR explained it well to you:
- men go to bars to try to pick up women (if possible, they flash money, cars)
- women go to bars (dolled up) to get attention (from the opposite sex)

These are modern times, there are almost no societal consequences for people who seduce married women/men, and ruin families.

Your comment here shows that you seem to be a good/decent guy, and also that you seem to be naive:
"And why shouldn't they be allowed to dress up when they go out? If they want to look good, it doesn't mean it is an invitation to be harassed IMO."

It's time for you to take leadership in your relationship, and create positive boundaries which will protect your marriage. Your wife seems to be clueless about all this and if you allow her to continue to lead in your relationship, she will lead you to the end of it.

I'm either incredibly ugly or give off major unavailable vibes. I hear this all the time and I do not get picked up on ever...well not in the last 20 years anyway. What's really kind of sad is there is a part of me that misses the validation and attention.

But I can categorically say I do not go out and constantly get hit on. I've had comments, looks, random chats, but that's it. I have not had men literally proposition me or start harassing me.

I relate to this. I am tall, have been pretty athletic, obviously funny ( ), I don’t think I’m repulsive to look at, and I do not get unsolicited attention. Now I know that this thread is saying that it mostly goes toward women, and I agree, but I still read men on here say that it does come their way at times and I’m sitting over here thinking, WTF? I hope this isn’t an offensive thing to say, but I think it must be an energy people out off, and I don’t have it.

All that said, assuming I’m right, this clearly implies that Hellfire has the vibe, can’t even control it

I am a little over middle aged lady. I am pretty comfortable going to the grocery store or doing errands, looking practically homeless. Sweats, no makeup, etc. and someone will still hit on me. And I am not ugly but I am a woman who blends in as average.

Women don’t have to go to a bar dressed up to get hit on nor do you have to do anything to encourage it I don’t think many of us really find that flattering, even not married. it’s something we have been conditioned to ignore knowing this is a guy trolling to get laid. It’s not flattering, it’s weird. I was once in the self help section of a bookstore. Which there are sexuality books mixed into that section, and some dide pretended to look around near me and then asked me if I wanted to try out some of the things in these books. It sincerely frightened me. Luckily I was there with my husband, who I immediately went looking for to leave.

The situations that lead to affairs most often are ones where the woman knows the man, either they work together or are around each other more for a hobby, got too friendly on social media, etc, and the attention seems less overt, more platonic at first.

I have never been to a girls night out where any of the women I know wanted attention from the men around us (and some of my friends are even single) Whenit happens we all find it antagonistic. I don’t go to clubs but I still go to trivia nights, concerts, karaoke, etc with my girlfriends. I wear my normal clothes, because at my age I don’t own clubbing clothes and would look ridiculous wearing them anyway.

If someone wants to cheat they will, but I don’t see many women interested in the creepy guys who are like what’s being described. I didn’t enjoy it when I was single and now I just get cranky. I will overtly make faces at any who hover at girls night until they get the hint, usually they will just go bother a different group of women.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:54 PM, Tuesday, March 19th]

Oh and most women dress for themselves or for other women. We don’t need to do that to get male attention.

Funny, first thing I do when i see a woman I am attracted to is look at her ring finger. If I see a flash I move on...

I go to a bar/pub, not to meet women (been going there for 7 years and have not talked to a single woman) but to spend time by myself. It's usually a quiet place, but gets busy on Friday night. They have a good happy hour lager and I can plug my laptop in at the bar.

Now, I am able to do this because of my venue choice. If people choose venues where pick-up artists and players are active,then that's a conscious choice and it comes with the comenserate annoyances. And yes, I've gone out to a bar to listen to live music and tried to sit alone, only to be hit on. But, that was a bar where singles go to meet. However, the continued advances after a clear "no" are really sleezy. No one should have their evening ruined by others.

For myself, I would not be in a relationship with a woman who gets dolled up to do GNO's. She has the absolute right to do what she wants, but so do I and it's just not worth the potential headache. I'm not being controlling, only recognizing that I have been through the wringer and there is very little of the core-me remaining. I need to protect it as much as I can. I would hope that she would guard the relationship in the same way I do.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 2:56 PM, Tuesday, March 19th]

This just made me think of a situation at a wedding in the last few years. I think is was post D-day, but not exactly sure. My wife and her female cousins (all married) were dancing and having a great time at a wedding. A group of us went outside the hot barn to cool down and a guy kind of tagged along. One of my wife’s cousins has a filthy mouth and it because pretty clear that this guy was getting off on listening to her. I looked over at him, told him it was a family gathering, the girls were all married, and he should find somewhere else to get his jollies. He didn’t move the first time, gave me a death stare like I was cock blocking him or something. I said something again and I wasn’t sure if I was about to get in my first fight or the asshole was going to piss off. He backed down, but it was clear the fucker thought he was entitled to be there. He’s probably gotten "rewarded" in situations like that in the past to have been that aggressive when told to fuck off.

What are some posters suggesting? Women stick to the harem and wear burkas when in public?

Ozzy – your wife should talk to her manager or the HR manager at the company and point this man out.
There are basically two scenarios I can imagine: Either this is something the man did without realizing how inappropriate he was being and a warning from his manager now will possibly save his bacon in the future, OR… this is something this guy has been doing for years, and she would be doing all the other women at work a favor. I can share that as a manager I have had to have this talk to several men over the years (and even one woman).
That she was married and had kids… not the issue.
That she dressed nice… not the issue.
That she felt beautiful and confident in her own skin… not the issue.
Had she been a single woman and even on the lookout for a partner it doesn’t open up the gateway for inappropriate comments. You can’t really blame a man (or a woman for that matter) for reaching out – for offering a drink or showing interest – but they have to understand the meaning of "no" – even if said in a kinder way than an outright "NO! I have no interest whatsoever in hearing your inappropriate stories or having a drink with you".

e’s probably gotten "rewarded" in situations like that in the past to have been that aggressive when told to fuck off.

Oh I am not saying that every pig won’t find their mud. But women grow up navigating this. Most are not interested but you will find desperate women of you keep trying. I just don’t think the average women think it means anything other than some men are pervy.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:04 PM, Tuesday, March 19th]