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My W is a member of our condo board. The prez and his slave-board secretary are both nasty people and both far less competent than they realize. Right now the board is trying to accomplish something, and my W has complied with the pricks instead of doing what she knows is right.

I've triggered on that. I swear I've done so because when we've talked about her over-compliance with these turtle's eggs, she looks exactly like she did when I confronted her on red flags during her A. She's giving into her fear, hoping that they won't be angry at her if only she does enough of what they want her to do.

I'm pretty angry over this. The condo's lawyer has said that board members have suffered PTSD working for these shits, but I think that confronting them - which has never been tried - is the only way left to possibly stop them from further damaging us.

So ... she's not cheating. I doubt that she's close to being unfaithful in the usual way. But she's selling herself and me (and other owners) out nonetheless.

I understand fearing these guys. They're both over 6' tall, and one of them - the secretary - resigned from the board in 2018 because he basically threatened physical harm to our much smaller female prez, and he's come close to threatening physical harm to owners at board meetings.

But, when I think I need a decision from her, W tells me that she needs time to think. She could do that when these schmegeges press her for decisions, too.

She's got IC tomorrow. Fortunately.

*****

I'm running for the board. Wish me luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:52 PM, Sunday, March 24th]

For what it’s worth, I completely understand the trigger in a completely non-infidelity-related context. The behaviors that my WH has/had that led him to allow himself to cheat affected pretty much every single aspect of his thinking and our lives long before he cheated.They were and are extremely ingrained and pretty much unconscious ways of reacting to life. He leads a fearful and conflict-avoidant life.

Unlike your XWS, my WH never got around to examining or changing those patterns. It sounds like this is a resurfacing of an old pattern in response to conflict maybe? I also really get how the over-compliance and appeasing of abusive, bullying people is a trigger. You’re right—it’s one of those ingrained patterns that probably contributed to susceptibility to an A. Appeasement, compliance, conflict avoidance, people pleasing, check, check, check, check. So it’s natural that you’re triggering over it even when there’s no danger of infidelity. It’s a pattern that is destructive to her integrity and to your sense of security and your ability to depend on her.

At any rate, you have all the tools you need to work through this, and it sounds like she does too. She trusts you and knows that you love her, so that gives her the space to say she needs to think without fear of the results. She clearly isn’t feeling safe or confident in dealing with the board in the same way. That’s something to look at, and it sounds like that’s something that will happen with your help and support too. It’s definitively fruitful ground for introspection, work, and progress.

Wishing you luck?in your campaign (although it sounds like you’re stepping into a rather tricky situation). I have every confidence that you are up to the challenge, Sisoon. Go get ‘em.

the secretary - resigned from the board in 2018 because he basically threatened physical harm to our much smaller female prez,

It sounds like her physical safety may be at risk if she stands up to them.

Why doesn't she quit/resign?

Good luck Sisoon!
Go get them !!! And please show your wife how it is done ..

I think the physical aspect of being harmed is something that you should seriously consider. Again, as I know we aren’t supposed to generalize but most men don’t understand how women can feel by men who yell/threaten physical violence. Men are almost always physically stronger, and it sounds like these guys use their physical presence to intimidate like the bully’s they are.

I understand your frustration and feelings but I would say consider it from her perspective. She may not be able to stand up to them but it could be more from fear of those two goons.

Good luck on your campaign and I completely understand when a familiar behavior emerges and the triggers that come with it.

✌🏽 Sisoon for President!! ✌🏽

(Also, I get it. It’s not cheating but it’s probably one of the qualities that enabled the A. Compromising what she knows is right in order to make other people happy. Fearing making others upset, knowing it will make you upset.)

^^^ THIS.

I'm sorry, Sisoon.

I *totally* get it, for what that's worth.

I've often said on SI and IRL to the few friends 'in the know' that the sexual/physical and/or romantic/emotional infidelity is but one symptom of a broader spectrum of problems, dysfunctions and ongoing issues. Infidelity really doesn't 'come out of nowhere' and it is most certainly *not* 'an aberration.'

It is part of a pattern, a pattern of:

behavior,

coping mechanisms,

FOO trauma,

acting out past damage,

acting out current damage,

dysfunctional self-soothing mechanisms,

perhaps even, in the worst cases, baked in character traits and personality disorders,

countless other factors.

Show me any one, any random, any assortment, any type of sexual/romantic infidelities, give me five minutes to peer into that relationship, and I will show you a myriad of other non-sexual, non-romantic betrayals, inconsistencies, dishonesties, broken promises and abandonments commited by that same wayward, most often aimed directly at the betrayed partner, sometimes exclusively so, while the wayward, in the salad days of his or her life, sashays about in a billowing red cape looking like a superhero to the world and everyone else in it.

Ask me how I know. =/

Dare I say it?

My husband's actual physical, sexual infidelity honestly amounted to nothing in the long run- except that it even happened at all, and that it happened under those particular circumstances.

Sexual/romantic fidelity was the last bastion of exclusivity and differentiation that I/we had left in our relationship by the time I found out about that sexual indiscretion, many years later, only SURPRISE! it wasn't. Husband had blasted through that boundary and had defiled that sacred space years earlier, I simply didn't know it. =/

Fortunately, he felt badly enough about it in the aftermath that he didn't punch that bright shiny red dopamine button again.

Unfortunately, that didn't change his basic baked in FOO programming as an overcompensating people pleaser, trying to find some emotional and psychological relief from the narcissists in his life.

So we had no further incidents of sexual infidelity, but the tire tracks on my back have tire tracks from being thrown under countless buses 'in service of others,' i.e. kibbles/validation seeking. Hubs was not able to tolerate even the idea that someone, other than me, might be unhappy with him.

I'm *still* working on that aspect.

???

How come it is *so incredibly intolerable* to Hubs for *any other random person in his life, including near strangers and complete strangers,* to be even slightly displeased with Hubs,

and yet it is COMPLETELY FINE to disregard, devalue, disrespect, betray, abandon ME- HIS WIFE, THE PERSON WHO SHARES HIS BED, THE PERSON WHO BORE HIS CHILDREN, FED THEM FROM MY OWN BODY, RAISED THEM, HONESTLY FINISHED RAISING HUBS HIMSELF, HAS STUCK BY HIM THROUGH THICK AND THIN, HAS BEEN A CONSCIENTIOUS, FRUGAL, HONEST AND INDUSTRIOUS STEWARD OF HIS RESOURCES- how is this even OK in his mind?

How is it OK to push on me, to take from me to give to everyone else, to violate my boundaries to the point where I am livid and screaming, because some random person made a bid?

How is it more acceptable to disregard, disrespect and abandon *me,* and give *everything* to various and random persons just because 'they came knocking'?

Or, 'well this is what is expected'?

Or, 'we've just always done it this way'?

The only thing I've been able to figure is that, with Hub's damaged psyche and emotional immaturity (his FOO is a real piece of work ) Hubs thought that I was an extension of him, and he treated me accordingly.

He had no true, integral self esteem and he assumed the same for me.

He had next to zero boundaries and he assumed the same for me.

In fact, I've often said, over decades, that I am the only person to whom Hubs can say 'No,' so he does so- often.

Honestly, that's probably due to an off balance, healthy-ish relationship model- Hubs *can* say 'No' to me; this is the place on earth where he feels the safest, so he overcompensates here. And in the meantime, he's reaching into my bucket and handing out things that belong to me and to us, and giving them away like Halloween candy and Christmas stocking stuffers, for ego kibbles, to keep other people happy, to avoid conflict, to get people out of his face.

Sisoon, I hear you.

The bullies and 'mean girls' and attention seekers and narcissists in our lives took full advantage of that weakness, of our weakness.

It made them feel strong, even though they were, they are, not.

They took, stole, appropriated, weedled, snatched, demanded, precious things from both of us, from each of us, things we will *never replace or get back,* and they laughed at us all the way home.

And then they came back for more.

Why not?

It was, brutal.

Honestly, I'll probably never get over it. =(

Hubs very clearly sees and understands this pattern now, this dysfunctional coping mechanism, baked in by the FOO.

He is deeply embarrassed and disappointed in himself, unfairly so, IMHO. Obvs he did not get here by himself.

Unfortunately, recognizing a dysfunctional behavior/coping pattern does not immediately bestow healthy alternatives.

LOLOL, IF ONLY, OMG.

It's been up to me, initially, to slam down, *and I do mean, SLAM DOWN,* long overdue boundaries, and perhaps more importantly, appropriate consequences for shit behavior, shit treatment, and lack of respect.

I had to model *this particular kind of strength* to my husband.

I had to 'love' him in a slightly different way- a way that initially made him *very uncomfortable and unhappy.*

His baked in 'comfort zone' was, and had been for some time, a Misery Stew.

I started saying 'NO!' like that was MY JOB...

...BECAUSE IT WAS.

I kicked bad actors, narcissists, users out of my life and out of our lives wholesale, without mercy.

Ultimately, Husband decides what relationships he will have in his life- to the point where that intersects with *our* life.

Fuckers do NOT get automatic and unfettered access to *me* because of whatever 'No Boundaries' relationship they managed to establish and enforce and exercise with Hubs.

My boundaries begin with my name, with my physical person (your rights end at the tip of my nose, and YES, members of Hub's adult FOO have *actually put hands on my equally adult body* in social situations to coerce me into actions and behaviors that they desired) and with this property line, my name is on the deed too.

I had to model The Ultimate 'Fuck Off.'

The good news?

It. Worked. Well.

Hubs not only saw that *he* didn't 'end' by saying no, any or some form of no,

that we didn't 'end' by saying no,

we weren't vaporized into the ether,

He *finally* was able to experience some relief from those lifelong toxic clowns.

That in itself was and is immense.

Hubs is in the process of speed learning boundaries, and the relief for both of us, and for our relationship, is palpable.

We do not miss the toxic clowns.

We miss the people they *could* have been in our lives, maybe even *should* have been (that 'should' word, I know...) but we do NOT miss, them.

Good riddance, *finally.*

Sisoon, I say this with all sincerity, as someone who has served on boards, and Hubs has served on boards too (in an ironic twist, these baked in dysfunctional patterns often contribute to a life of service, even if 'service' sometimes involves positions of authority/power)

and we have both worked with and interacted with boards extensively,

'The Board' is not the boss of you.

'The Board' and the members thereof are not the boss of your wife.

Being on 'The Board'is by its very definition a position of service.

'The Board' is quite literally there, *it exists,* to serve YOU, the property owner.

Furthermore, physical intimidation is illegal and also, legally actionable.

Your wife may not have the tools in her repertoire (yet) to deal with bullies.

You, as a property owner first and foremost in this situation,

and as a husband,

and as a friend,

may need to step in and model boundaries for her.

Just MHO, and YMMV, and you obvs know your situation better than I do. <3

[This message edited by marriageredux959 at 10:25 PM, Sunday, March 24th]

I’ll vote for you early and often.

When my wife tells a lie, I’ll call her on it now. She knows when I do, that I’m tracing it back to the A. Puts her on the spot.

Marriageredux959: EPIC! I think I'm just reaching the same stage with Boundaries, and for very similar reasons, oye.

Sisoon, I get it completely how your fWW's decision is a trigger and also how it impacts you as a homeowner. I hate those conflated triggers.

But I agree with marriageredux, that sounds almost legally actionable if they are using physical intimidation. You'd be a great addition to your Board, but you know it may be a lot of angst to take on.

Another vote for Sisoon!

I get this. I have been struggling lately, not because of a fear that the affair is still happening, but because I see a return to a pattern of emotional shut down that I know was a factor in how I’ve got to the place where an affair was possible.

It’s not just the affair.

It’s all the things that made the affair possible.

That said, you have given me words of support many times, so here is my chance to return the favor:

You just told me in another post that the road is long. Maybe it never ends, but that means that we keep working on our marriages in ways that make them stronger.

I hope all this campaigning doesn’t violate the no politics guideline. But you get my vote too.

I shudder to dare to try to give you some advice, but I also believe who you are will accept thoughts with grace anyway, so I’ll try and if it’s garbage then you know what to do with it.

We’ve talked our share about statistics. We don’t see eye to eye, but I believe a constant refrain that I hear from you that I do believe is true is that no statistics will tell you definitively what is going to happen with any one person’s story. You, Sisoon, are not a statistic. And the behaviors that you are understandably reacting to from your wife are things that you have come to believe are risk factors that were part of the build up to your betrayal and trauma.

Everything you have said about your wife on this board has given us every reason to believe she was immediately remorseful and honest, even for her own conscience sake, which seems to me to be the best reason.

Even after all the best doing of the work to become a safe partner, or for a BS to heal, remnants must stay in place. Echos of pain for a BS, temptations to avoid conflict (for example) for a fWS.

So after all that, maybe I’ll just try a clumsy reflection of your own advice back to you. Your future is not a statistic. This is the first negative thing I have ever heard you say about your wife post D-day, she must be one hell of a woman. She remains herself and is not perfectly arrived, but I hope that this is just a little bump in the road for you. I hope and pray you both use those certainly by now well worn communication skills and grow in this.

#sisoonforpresident

Good luck!!

I’m so sorry you’re triggering, it’s completely understandable. I really hope IC tomorrow helps.

Oh yes, I think we all get this!

Old behaviors surfacing, in completely unrelated circumstances, that make us feel similar to the way we felt when our spouses were engaged in their infidelity.

Been there a lot and have a lot of T-shirts from my repeated trips down memory lane.

By the way, what is your REAL motivation for running for president of the condo board? Are you running because you are hoping to stay out of prison, or out of the nursing home???

LOL!

Not running for pres, just a seat at the table. I do have a candidate for a new pres who is already on the board. Nut you know ... he's a friend, and what good person wants to make a friend take the job of condo board pres?

*****

Most of the crap that gets dumped on plainsong is via the phone or email, and there's no possibility of violence. Her fear is real and as suggested above, it's due to CSA.

Once, when W prevented an illegal board meeting (insufficient notice), the secretary stood outside our door almost shouting at W, saying in a very angry tone, 'You're petty - petty - petty!' She stood up to him. Yesterday, she hung up on him.

I think she may be ready to change this basic behavior.

Thanks for the help.

And for the votes.

I am happy to hear that your wife stood up to the president and secretary of your condo board, @sisoon.

I actually had a couple earlier attempts at writing a response to this thread. This thread got me to feel something, although I just was not able to organize my thoughts into anything.

This is what I got now. I will say that standing up to bullies just takes a lot of courage for anyone, whether it was a former WS or not. And that I do understand why you would really need your W to do such a thing to the mendacious powers-that-be at your condo board.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:52 PM, Monday, March 25th]