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On Tuesday my WH and I had a massive row. Well actually it wasn't a massive row - to keep it short, we had had a really good couple of weeks but then something triggered me and I found myself back at the "I know you're still lying, I can't do this" stage. Now because we had had such a good few weeks, this took my WH by surprise, he panicked and lost his shit. He got really angry, which upset me and I didn't want the kids around it!

So I sent him to his parents, we told the kids we need some space. Then on the Wednesday, they also went to his parents, as I had to work (this was the plan anyway, pre-argument).

He told his parents he was there because he lost his temper, he's lied about alot of stuff etc etc. Yet I hear nothing from his parents. They know I have no family here, yet nothing, just to check how I am.

Then last night WH drops the kids back and tells me that he is worried about both the kids. He said that his mum told him she had had a chat with our youngest (age 11), and that she had said to his mum "I'm glad daddy's with us here, because mummy keeps shouting at him".

I felt my heart dissolve. I was on the floor crying, snot everywhere, just heartbroken that I had made my daughter feel this way.

I text my mother in law to ask whether thats what she had said. She then replied that I need to stop, and that the kids are not objects, they are precious, don't drag the girls into this - I mean WHAT THE HELL? 😡

I then spoke to my daughter calmly later on, and asked how she was feeling and what had she said to grandad. She said that grandma asked how she was, she said she was ok but glad there's no arguments happening. Then grandma asked her "who's more shouty?". She replied saying mummy is (which on the most part is true - apart from Tuesday - but thats the affect of trauma and continued TT. I hate how this has made me, and I hate that the kids have been so affected). My eldest has corroborated exactly what was said, and she knows her younger sister would never say what grandma had said she had said.

Anyway, I am absolutely livid that my mother in law has dared to quiz my daughter on "who is more shouty" (our daughter loves us both very much, and in my eyes thats an unnecessary test of her loyalty, which I know she would not like). It was absolutely inappropriate!!!!

But then to top it off, my mother in law has decided to relay that to my husband as "I'm glad daddy's with us here, because mummy keeps shouting at him". Our daughter actually over heard her grandma say this to her dad, which then she said really annoyed her, because it wasn't accurate and also she felt it was said in confidence. She also added that she thinks grandmas done this because "daddy is her child and she doesn't want to feel bad". I think she's spot on.

I am now at the point where I am just done with his parents. They were awful to me during the affair. WH lied to them, telling them I was the problem and that of course he wouldn't have an affair. His dad felt it appropriate to send me links to mental health websites, telling me I need help, I'm damaging my kids!!!!! On DDay I had his mum shouting down the phone at me that it wasn't true (despite finding irrefutable evidence). During the A, his mum even lied about his whereabouts. I cried down the phone to her every day when he left - he said me was staying there with his parents, he told his parents he was staying at a friends, but actually he was living with the AP. His mum lied to me and said he was staying there - if she had been honest, I may have found out about the A sooner and saved myself 3 months of torture 😭 I feel like I have been stabbed in the back by each and every one of them.

My WH is incredible angry and disappointed at his mums actions and he is going to speak to her today. I've said I want nothing more to do with them, but he's saying that he just can't see how that will work. But its how I feel? Am I totally over reacting?

The good that has come out of this is the realisation of how damaging all of this has been to the kids. We have both handled it terribly. WH is coming home today and we have a plan so that the girls will not have to endure hearing us arguing about this ever again. I will absolutely no longer let that happen, no matter what. I feel like a terrible mother, I miss our Pre-A lives so much 😪

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 12:21 PM, Saturday, April 13th]

I agree with you. Do you rely on them for daycare? If not, you should cut the in-laws out of your relationship. If you do, hopefully you can make other arrangements.

WH lied to them, telling them I was the problem and that of course he wouldn't have an affair.

Has he told them the truth? I think it's time he sat down with his parents, with you present,and told them the truth. All of it. And that you have every reason to feel hurt,and angry. And he expects them to show you more respect.

If they blame you at all, he needs to immediately stop that.

I'd also stop sending the kids there. She is lying about them to you, and their father. She is using the kids as a weapon. It's abusive. And the kids know it.

Find other childcare arrangements. They can visit the kids, in your home,as long as they show respect for you. If they can't do that, they can't see the kids. Its not punishment. It's keeping the kids safe from their toxicity.

WhiskeyBlues

Read Hellfire post again - she is spot on.

Trotting out an old saw: "The Apple doesn't fall far from the tree."

Is your husband figuring out shxx, er - crap? You post a few words that lean towards that assumption.

Putting a few hectares between in-laws (remembering you're married to their cheater spawn) - will be a good thing.
Possible they will do some introspection and figure out their lack of ability to see reality and stop lying/manipulation or trying to and "protecting" their cheater son?

I'm a bit pessimistic such introspection will happen and, if it does, it will take some time - years? - to take a positive turn in their attitude and reality perception.

I'm with Hellfire - no more kid-watching @ in-laws. They come visit to see 'their' grandchildren at your place or maybe a picnic or something similar?

I see rough path for you as "daddy" is very likely to still have some of the "thinking" imparted by his parents and will react without thinking. Par for the course . . .

Stand your ground for your girls - their respect for you when they mature will be your reward!

Wish you luck in your work trying to keep your family together.

I’m so sorry to hear you’re going through this. I’m in kinda a similar boat! Neither of my in-laws have reached out to me (not once) to see how I have been doing or to offer support since Dday. Absolute silence. I made my WH call his parents the minute I found out about his infidelity and that he was going to come clean to them (he did).

His parents had him on such a f&@cking pedestal that I think they were (still are) in some sort of denial (I’m sure in some way they blame me, that’s just who they are). Fast forward 6 months later, they still have yet to say anything to me, they actually very seldom speak to him anymore now and when they do they never bring "it" up and rugsweep like it didn’t even happen. They (fortunately for me) don’t live locally to us, it’s either a 17 hour drive or plane ride (thank the lucky stars)! It is very disappointing to say the least. My parents have been nothing but kind and remain treating him like a son, even after all that he’s done to me and his kids and his parents can’t even extend a text message to me asking how I’m doing. Pathetic. I’ve more or less written them out of my life, and I’m not budging on "breaking the silence." The only people they are damaging is themselves and their grandchildren (our kids are their only grandchildren too)! My WH and I, at this point anyway, could care less to see them as they have not offered any sort of support.

Your in laws sound toxic AF and I would be livid at this last visit. I hope your WH has told them the truth about what he’s done and stands up for you towards them - he’s the dirt bag after all. I would say "taking a break" from them is in order, I wouldn’t want my kids around them if they are going to try to pry for information or put false thoughts into their heads.

[This message edited by Heartbrokenwife23 at 3:45 PM, Saturday, April 13th]

Hey, OP. Sorry you are dealing with this. It does sound like your MIL is quite toxic and interfering. Your FIL as well, but based on your post, less so.

My MIL was supportive for me aftercDday, but struggled as my FIL (dead), was a serial cheater and she stayed. He was terminal sndcshe justcwant3d him to die quicker. Loved him though. Go figure. Funny thing is I'm having lunch with her and my two SILs today, so we get along but I wouldn't say close-close.

As for the kids. I had a good honest talk with my oldest recently. After 6.5 years, she was willing to talk and I was surprised to discover that she not only knew about her mother's A, but the identity of that AP. She also had some misconceptions which I think my EXWW had subtly sown. The first was the number of APs and the duration. The second was that she had expressed her desire for a D well before her A's. First I heard about this. I guess shecwas trying to play the unhappy M card and make her cheating not so bad if the M was basically over. I walked my D over the inconsistencies and logical fallacies of this narrative.

She feels lied to, as she lived under a false narrative for so long, albeit one of her choosing since she refused to talk about it. She is in her early 20s and sees her mother for the person she is. She sees me for all my many faults too.

She doesn't know who to believe but said I am the more trustworthy as I have the battle scars to show for it. I handled my healing as best as I could, but my pain affected my kids. Part of me is pissed that I am held accountable for not processing my trauma conveniently enough for those around me. But I understand that they have yet to experience this pain.

I'm telling you all this to let you know my story, but also to suggest you speak to your kids in an age-appropriate way. Don't let them build a false narrative, only to dump the real one in their lap years later. It will affect them and their future relationships. Sit down with your WH and IC and figure out a way going forward. Sift through the advice here and get a sense of what your best course of action is moving forward. But most of all,d don't lie to your kids. Even if you think you are protecting them.

we have a plan so that the girls will not have to endure hearing us arguing about this ever again.

Good. We tried to keep all of our heavy conversations out of the house. Either in the garage, going for a drive, or finding a place to park and talk.

An important thing I learned post-DDay is that my MIL might be friendly and might profess to be impartial, but she's not my friend and she has her own agenda. She was, dare I say it, excited to have him come stay with her while we were separated, and loathe to give him up. The night we decided to R, she was blowing up his phone at 2am saying that he needed to come home and take care of his children. It was 2am. They were SLEEPING. And she knew he was with me. Don't you think she'd want us talking and working things out? I guess not. My relationship with her was forever damaged by that. And my eyes were opened.

That incident gave me a couple of good lessons. Blood is, indeed, thicker than water, and blood will usually stick with blood, even if they're the villain of the story. Also, that people will usually behave in their own best interests. She wanted him there with her. She didn't want him R'ing with me and leaving her, even though R was what was obviously best for me, him, and the kids.

I'm interested to hear what comes of your H's talk with his mum.

I am upset for you. I am so sorry. I had a similar situation with my in laws. My MIL never liked me and also took it out on her only two grandchildren (our kids). When my husband and I reconciled (my kids were starting college and high school), I told him I was taking him back, not her (by that time, my FIL had died). I told him that I would never stand in the way of him visiting his mom, or the kids visiting her (who didn't have much of a relationship with her anyway), but I was done, no more holiday dinners with her where she pecked at me the entire time, sat there like an entitled queen and never offered to help, criticized me constantly, etc. He agreed to it. She was quite old at this point (in her 80s), so we agreed that he would spend one night a week at her house, running her errands, having dinner with her, watching movies, etc. He also took his half hour lunch every day to drive her to adult day care because she refused to ride the bus, and then picked her up after work and took her home (which is no where near where we live). She was demanding and ungrateful and he finally had to experience what I'd put up with for 26 years. Humorous story: She had already signed everything over to him (her house and car), and the time came he had to take her car away from her due to dangerous driving. During discussions with her leading up to the removal of the vehicle, she told him if he took her car, she'd call the cops and say he had stolen it. By this time, he knew what a shrew she was and in anticipation of her doing that, he called the local police department and told them the car was in his name and he was removing it from her house so she couldn't drive anymore. They asked him to bring in proof that he owned the car, which he did. Sure enough, that nasty witch called the cops. The cops informed her that my husband had already called and shown proof of ownership of the vehicle so there was nothing they could do. She then threatened to kill herself if he didn't return the car. He called the police again, reporting that she was threatening to kill herself. They put her in a mental facility for two weeks where the social worker told my husband she'd never come across someone so stubborn and unreasonable. She finally died at 89. Her dying was one of the best things that could have happened to our marriage. Do not feel bad cutting those people out of your life. Your husband can handle taking the kids to visit. Nobody should ever be allowed to make another person that miserable. Life your best life without them in it. My marriage improved vastly once my MIL was gone. Good luck to you.

Thank you all so much for your replies, and for just allowing me to vent.

To add, WH did come clean about the affair to his parents/family, a couple of weeks after dday. First, of all the watered down version, and then after some choice words from me, the whole ugly story. So yeah, they all know - the problem is, they just don't seem to care.

UPDATE: WH came home yesterday, after he had had "the chat" with his mum.

He says she just doesn't get it! He explained, again, that the reason that he is there is because of HIM and HIM only. He said he has struggled with the honesty, due to fear, but that it is all his doing. He told her I am the victim in all this (as in me), and whilst yes we have argued and I have shouted, it has never been in my nature but he has driven me insane.

She told him that she feels like I should be over it by now. That I have made the decision to take him back, so I just now need to let it go for the sake of the girls, not discuss it and stop asking questions. She asked why on earth do I want to know all of these details anyway, as she certainly wouldn't want to know.

He said but that doesn't work. He said that is effectively rug sweeping, which will inevitably, down the road, end up in either him repeating the same behaviour or us divorcing anyway. He said I need to know the truth to make an informed decision to decide whether I want to R or not. He said I ask questions to build trust and have an understanding of what has happened in my own marriage, as two years ago, he blew it to pieces for no reason at all - but again he explained the honesty has been so difficult and its the aspect he struggles with the most.

She said (and he pre-warned me this was going to upset me) "why do you keep defending her? You need to stand you ground" 🤣

He lost his temper, she then lost her temper. He said that with all due respect, she has no idea what she's talking about (he said he was nervous about saying this, as what if his dad has had an affair - as Hippo said, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree). He said that he has traumatised me, taken everything away from me and I am just trying to piece my life back together. He said that I have been completely abandoned by everyone in that family, including him.

He asked why hasn't she even reached out at all? She said its because previously he told her to not involve herself. He said but that was ages ago when you've tried to dish out advice, there was nothing stopping you just saying "hey, thinking of you, let me know if I can do anything". She said well I didn't message her because I knew you guys would get back together anyway. He said no, thats really wishy washy. She then said she hasn't had time! He said but you've had time to send stupid links etc on the family WhatsApp group? (At this point WH said to me its all just excuses - now I know how you must feel 😔).

He said he felt like she was trying to constantly placate him in some way. He said he asked why on earth her and his dad have not even critised him at all during this? He said that he knows now that if our girls grew up and did this to their family, that although we would never disown them, we would be telling them how disappointed we are in them and how they need to get their act together and start doing the right thing. He said when you found out about all of this, you said nothing at all, and instead made me a roast dinner?!

She said but we ARE disappointed in you. He said he was quite taken aback and wasn't expecting that. She then followed it up with "dad and I are disappointed that you lied to us" 🤣🤣🤣 He said, so not disappointed that I betrayed my wife and kids? He said he didn't say anything, she just looked at him pityingly.

With the regards to what my daughter said - he told her that our daughter has explained what she said and it doesn't line up with how she explained it to him. She tried to sort of back track, and then say we its basically the same! He said its not at all, and that it could have caused so much damage. Well, it did. She said sorry to this, but I still don't think she understands (WH says he keeps going over in his head wondering WHY she twisted our daughters words. I said the thing is, it was hurtful - usually with hurtful news people try and downplay it - whereas she purposefully "up-played" it. He needs to ask himself why.

And then finally he asked why she sent that message about me treating the girls as objects. She said she just panicked?! Apparently, she was worried that I was going to get the kids involved and then use that against him/her...or something. I don't know. This, she hasn't really explained. My theory is that she may have realised that she had twisted our daughters words, what a shit storm she had caused, and then panicked.

It was left at that, and tempers had simmered down by the time he left. He said by the end he feels like she "got it" a bit more but also said he feels like its a generational thing. And that her and his dad have such an unbalanced relationship. She is literally a door mat. He said whilst he was there this week, he didn't lift a finger. He sits down while she lugs in all the heavy shopping. She cooks, he eats and then just goes straight to the living room while she clears up everything. My WH says its a generational thing but I don't agree - my dad, God rest his soul, worked, cooked, cleaned, made my mum a cup of coffee every morning before he went to work. He wasn't perfect, but he doted on her.

WH keeps saying to me, "but I know she really does love you, she says she loves you like a daughter and she just wants us to work". I scoffed at this and just told him to open his eyes - her actions towards me have been abominable. And yes, of course she wants this to work, because its what her precious boy wants. She knows his life will go to rats if we are not together. So, yeah, I have no doubt she wants us to stay together. As SS, blood is thicker then water.

I got a message from her last night saying she's glad WH is back, she really hopes we can work on things but that she "won't take sides" (maybe thats the problem 🙄). She says she really does love me and she would like to talk when I'm ready.

I just don't want to. I tend to look more for actions now rather then words. I think she wants to smooth things over to make herself feel better. She's not a horrible person, not in the slightest, but thats not the point. She's shown me what I mean to her, so I think I would rather leave it as that.

I am considering writing a letter, to say how I feel about everything, but thats that.

His brother is getting married in September and I really don't want to go 😔 I knew i was going to struggle any way, but after this - just no. Would this be totally unreasonable of me to decline the invitation. His brother hasn't done anything wrong and I've always been fond of him, although we are not close and WH isn't overly either. Just due to busy lives really. But with his mum and dad there, I don't think I will manage

[This message edited by WhiskeyBlues at 10:26 AM, Sunday, April 14th]

I just wanted to also add that I'm really very proud of WH for standing up to his mum. He's really stuck up for me, which means alot. I know he has found it hard standing his ground with his parents throughout our marriage, for fear of upsetting them or them viewing him differently. So again, this shows real change from him.

It’s great that your WH is standing up for you to his mother. Some men find that really hard (my XWH would rather lie than generate conflict and that messed up my relationship with his mother for a while) so good for him.

I don’t think you can expect MIL to take your side, as unfair as that may seem. Some (a lot) of parents will always stick by their children, whatever they have done. In my case, my XWH told his mother that he had cheated (without the nitty gritty details), and she was (and is) perfectly nice to me but still wanted me to forgive him.

There may be some generational aspects in play too. My own parents were so scared about the effects on their grandchildren that their instinctive reaction was to think we should R rather than D (very hurtful to me the BS, but that is beside the point).

The line in the sand though, I think, is the children. Absolutely no way your MIL should be playing games with their mental health. If she is going to do that, no unsupervised visits. WH needs to make it clear that matters regarding your marriage should not be discussed by MIL with the children at all and if this happens contact will be stopped until / unless she sorts herself out. My own parents never ever make derogatory comments about my XWH to the children, it might just be a neutral ‘uh-huh’ if the children bring him up if they can’t say anything nice.

Re the September wedding, would you consider WH going with the kids and you stay away? Or just WH going? I can see brother being hurt if no-one from your immediate family shows up. Has brother done anything upsetting to you / your children or do you not want to go because of the parents?

Your mother-in-law's attitude has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her own identity. She sees her son as an extension of herself and a reflection on her parenting. The same goes for your children; they aren't so much "your children" as they're her grandchildren, an extension of her by proxy through your WH. That's why she's willing to gloss over his lies to you but is disappointed that he's lied to her. After all, he can't be a bad husband or parent because that implies she's a bad mother. But lying to her makes him a bad son because it interferes with her management of all of you.

To your MIL, acknowledging flaws in your WH is equivalent to acknowledging flaws in herself. Offering empathy to you for his actions feels like accepting responsibility for them. She not only doesn't understand his journey to accountability, she feels blamed and threatened by it. If there's a problem, it has to be laid at your doorstep to keep it far from her own.

I think you're wise to isolate yourself, because there's zero chance this leopard will change her spots.

I feel for you….it seems that some folks still believe that an affair is the betrayed spouses fault.
And family members take sides for many reasons.

My fwh and I are five years out from his deserting me for his AP and them living together for three months.

I gave him a second chance to live with me once he left her.

My MIL sided with her son explaining to me that he is her son. Look I get it. I am a mother myself but here is the big difference, my adult children are no extension of me and do not reflect my parenting either. For her, her children and her only son was her pride. Ouch, when he did what he did.

When we reunited, her comment to me was it’s the right thing to do. I believe she meant it’s the right thing to do for her.

My husband and his mom rarely talked about feelings. If at all.. When in her company, I did not hear I love you’s from her or my husband to one another. A cold, righteous woman she was. Yes that’s my opinion. Nice enough in the presence of others but….

I felt like an outcast until I stood up for myself on the phone to her. I had to do it verbally. My husband had written a apology letter to all family members acknowledging his actions and basically absolving me from blame. My MIL swept the whole thing under the rug. I lost all respect I had for her.

However, before she passed away last year, we had a final conversation on the phone at her request.( we lived 800 Kms away). She acknowledged that I will never forget her son’s actions, that her son IS selfish, etc. And that she believes we are in a good spot because of me. Wow. Final act of confession?
Too little too late? It was for me.

I agree with the suggestion to keep distance from her and her influence when possible. Over time perhaps things will change. I wish you well.

I think BSR nailed it, but I would add this: your MIL sound veryvdefensivecwhen it comes to infidelity. Has she cheated on her H? I wonder if there are deeper issues? You know, of the take-it-to-the-grave ort...I'm just speculating

Your MIL behaves very much like my MIL. I think it is partly generational, as they’re quite uncomfortable addressing things directly, and can’t seem to examine their feelings or even remotely own their shit. It’s maddening.

My MIL lived with us for a while and drove us all almost literally insane. Bossy, sarcastic, horribly passive aggressive. No amount of talking with her made a difference. We finally had to ask her to move out.

She’s never going to change, as BSR said. But we can change how we deal with her. We see her about once a week and we play nice while we eat dinner, we help her with things, and then we leave and we don’t think about her much until next week’s dinner. Our adult kids are free to have the relationship they want with her.

Ditto, BSR nailed it.

I'm glad you got some sort of support from your husband, that will be crucial to your reconciliation. I remember my husband parroting to me a comment his mother made: "Infidelity has been around since time began and it'll be around long after we're gone." As if that was supposed to make it more acceptable. I told him, "Murder has been around since time began and will be around long after we're gone. Does that make it more acceptable to you and your mom? That's an ignorant thing to say, don't say it again." I agree with the poster who said that tiger isn't likely to change its spots. I tried for years with my MIL and things would be ok for a while, but then she'd always pull the rug out from under me when I was least expecting it because we'd been getting along ok. For me, one of the best things I did for my quality of life was cutting her out of it. I would call your BIL and explain your feelings to him and that you love him, but am unable to attend any family gatherings at this time. Let your husband take your children and go without you. Have a spa day or get together with girlfriends or just enjoy the peace and quiet at home knowing she can't disrupt your peace any more. That's priceless. Nobody should be allowed to diminish who we are. It isn't her place or right to decide if your healing is meeting her time line.

Just want to say I really related to this thread. Mother in laws are complex. I said some awful things about her son on dday to mine which I forever regret and our relationship isn’t the same. My mother in law also struggles to talk about feelings, she is a product of her time. I wish I had never said anything but I need to just accept that she is who she is as I am who I am and not take to heart some of the things she says

I think it would be a mistake not to attend your brother in law’s wedding.

You can go to the wedding and spend minimal time talking to your in laws (especially your mother in law).

The groom might be terribly hurt and he’s done nothing wrong.

If it’s a large enough event you can certainly have very limited contact. Hello. Good bye. Lovely wedding. Nice day.

There’s your conversation. 6 words. Avoids the drama.

You can go to the wedding and spend minimal time talking to your in laws (especially your mother in law).

It may also give your husband a chance to step up again and defend you. I wouldn't go without him understanding that. He's going to be imperfect at it, but it seemed to do a good job with his latest conversation.