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Just damnit all. Things were getting better. WW was facing her demons, had stopped being defensive, even admitted that she was still a mess and that the crap she pulled on me a month ago was unfair and still selfish. Now, tonight, I had just put the kids to bed and was ready to surprise her with some overdue us time. Before I open the door I hear her talking/crying. My heart skips, because last time I heard this she had made an attempt on her life. So i listen. I don’t feel guilty anymore about this because she cheated and for very other obvious reasons.

She was talking to AP. Now, I don’t think she was actually talking to him, I have a cloned version of her phone, I have all of her SM/message apps on my phone under her account, and I can see if she has downloaded any I don’t have. She hasn’t, far as I can tell, nor have I found any evidence of a burner. We live in tornado alley and get lots of alerts, if she had a burner I would have found it by now because of that. I am pretty sure she was talking to herself/him. And it didn’t sound like she was actually talking to anyone.

I don’t know what I am trying to say. I heard her talking, and I’m trying to figure out what I heard. Definitely heard her say "I was only your side piece and you blew up my life". To me, that sounds like she misses him and regrets how it ended, that she regrets what truth was, not the actual affair. I don’t know for sure what else I heard, but that was enough to crush me, again. I don’t know,
am I reading too much into it?

The affair ended because AP got a girlfriend. WW vehemently denies this, but to me, it was a critical part. For context, days before the A ended, I was out of town for work. I was putting all of the pieces together after 6 months of hell, false R, TT, and now knowing the A had not ended after dday1, and i slowly realized she was still having an affair. We had a phone call, and basically she could tell I was done. Shortly after that phone call, she found out AP was sleeping with another woman. She confessed everything when I came home three days later (on our anniversary of corse).

I don’t know, I feel devastated all over again. Like, almost 2 years later she is still crying over him? She willingly allowed the A to happen, she had so many opportunities to prevent it, and even after to end it and actually be a wife. No matter how much she saw me suffer, it took AP moving on for her to "wake up". She tells me she doesn’t think about him anymore and she doesn’t know what she was thinking during the madness of the A, but just hearing this, now, I don’t know what to feel.

I’m just rambling into the void I guess. At least people here understand where I’m coming from.

"I was only your side piece and you blew up my life"

That’s a hard one to interpret. I think there are a couple different ways you could interpret it. My fist impression was she was expressing shame about herself and anger toward him. He used her for what he wanted, made her think she was something more than a side piece. She made decisions based on that lie that he could have predicted would hurt her greatly. She must feel like a fool. And then to top it all off she got rejected. I’m sure I’m projecting a bit here though. If she was feeling anger toward him for what she feels was manipulation on his part, I would say that’s a good thing. Have you spoken to her about it?

First and foremost, I’m sorry you are hurting, friend.

Clearly, if she broke NC, that is enormous.

If you genuinely believe you heard her having an imaginary conversation with him, I agree that that is hard to interpret. She may be waking up to reality. And at the same time it proves that he is still occupying head space.

I think you have to talk to her about it and see if she can tell you something that you can believe.

Praying for you, the kids, and your wife tonight.

Or ... she could have another burner phone and was leaving him a message.

Sorry not sure how to quote but basically my first impression on reading this was the same as Legatus. She blew up her life for nothing, and now she’s feeling like an idiot.

Sorry friend but wanted to add that turning off weather and amber alerts is quite simple of she has a burner phone. A Google search and for type of phone and voila step by step instructions.

Did you confront her on her words what they meant what's her story. One bog thing I learned in R was getting very comfortable having diffult conversations.

I don't understand why she would say it out loud if she were pretending to have a conversation.

you blew up my life

To me, this is still very wayward. She isn't taking responsibility for her actions that lead to the A and she's the one who blew up your whole family's lives.

Sorry you're hurting and I hope you find peace.

I'd scour the house for a burner, but I don’t think she was talking to AP. She was probably having a not so internal conversation with herself. I agree with Legatus. Though I think she is expressing regret and not remorse. I think she still feels sorry for herself and sees herself as the victim.

My EXWW, even 7+ years out, still sees herself as the victim of an AP who skillfully played her. Even foundca letter which she wrote him venting about how he took advantage of her when she was in a vulnerable place. It's all bullshit of course, but it helps them avoid being the villain in their own narrative.

It's like that Mitchell and Webb skit where the SS officer realizes that they're the baddies...

I'm convinced that many if not most waywards have not developed the capacity for true empathy or at least it is very stunted. I don't know your full story, but hopefully, your WW is on the way to developing a sense of true remorse. I'd confront her, in a calm way, and mention that you overheard her, then ask for an explanation. It might do well to hear her side.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 2:34 PM, Friday, April 19th]

I think asking about what you heard is your best approach. To get honesty, model honesty.

If she's in IC, her IC could have told her not to keep her conversation in her head. If she isn't in IC, why not?

If she's broken NC, my condolences. That may go over your line into deal killer territory.

I think you & your family would be in a better place if you had divorced 2 years ago.

We live in tornado alley and get lots of alerts, if she had a burner I would have found it by now because of that.

You can turn off the alerts. I did.

I agree with Legatus, though.

I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty mad - at the other person and at myself - if I was fool enough to blow up my life for someone who was sleeping around on me. I don't think it's necessarily wayward thinking.

It’s a bit ambiguous until you have had a chance to investigate.

I will share a few things from my experience but know that your wife and I are very different, and I think it’s more likely that this is a wayward person acting out.

I am going to assume it was an out loud conversation with herself, because obviously if she is in contact with the ap that would be a whole different set of advice.

From what you have shared about your wife sounds like she is manipulative and a hit high drama? for the sake of shorthand, it doesn’t seem like you have been under an illusion that she has healed significantly. Things getting a little better must be more about the relationship rather than the individual stability? I am stating as a question because I have not followed closely but this is my impression from what I have read from you.

I think it’s natural that a ws will think about the ways the ap wronged them. It’s how reprogramming myself looked like in some ways. While it seems devoid of empathy towards you, and it probably is, it’s like this stage of duality has to be worked through by the ws. Normally I think it would be more worked through at two years but maybe some of the mental health issues has prolonged it.

But sure, there were stages I went through in realizing that the ap was lying to me and using me. That he had predatory behavior. I mean there obviously has to be a period of time that you are deconstructing what happened in the affair and realizing what was happening wasn’t what you made it to be. This is normal and needed.

And in light of realizing how wrong you were in believing it all, the added consequences can seem overwhelming. Still, she must come to the cross roads of taking accountability for her part in it.

I can say my affair was 100 percent my fault, AND I can say that the AP had many affairs and was well equipped for taking advantage of me in a vulnerable state. These two concepts do not have to be mutually exclusive. And I did have to slowly come to that realization and went though an anger phase. I wanted my marriage AND I needed to see the errors of my thinking, again not mutually exclusive if that’s what is going on here.

Anyway, there is anger that I did need to work through that I could see myself saying this to myself out loud. I did this a lot earlier in the process than your wife (maybe 10 months or so out? Hard to pinpoint it remember), but the idea alone doesn’t mean that the statement is bad, it means she is thinking about it and processing it and everyone has to do that to a certain extent.

My issue is just there are a lot of complications on top of this that you have been dealing with. I know that you don’t intend to divorce and that your expectations of the marriage have been set low, but I wonder if you think or say that in order to feel better but what you really want is the full marriage? And I maybe misunderstanding you but it seems like I read a post from you a while ago that said you just need to stay functional as a family and that you could live with it being that way? I think it would be healthier for you to shoot for what you really want and to weigh her behaviors with that in mind. And besides, it’s likely not what she is going to want either. Your wife flies too close to the fire to be in a “stay together for the sake of” sort of marriage that the love hasn’t been restored in. It’s a catch 22 because she is the one that has a lot more to work through to grow that love back and she has been pretty absent in that regard if I am understanding correctly.

I don’t think you have conveyed a smoking gun here but we will see where you are after further investigation. But it is normal to be mad that you were lied to by the ap, and that you have all these consequences that made it so not worth it. But her ownership in all that should follow. You will hear it if she does. She will convey she has been a fool in so many different ways.

I don’t know if you are going to get that or not. I understand her anger but everyone has a different capacity for taking ownership and accountability.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:38 PM, Friday, April 19th]

that sounds like she misses him and regrets how it ended, that she regrets what truth was, not the actual affair.

That's exactly what it sounds like.

As mentioned it's easy to turn off alerts. Sounds like a burner phone to me.

This ap is the same man who hurt your child?? If so, then I'd have to say her words would be a deal breaker for me. She knows this man physically abused her son. She should despise him. Fuck the so called "affair fog." If she was truly has horrified as you have said she is, she wouldn't be pissed,and hurt,two years later, that he used her.

Fwiw, I agree this isn’t "fog" stuff. If she is just now seeing the AP for what he was or the affair for what it was it means to me that she was likely unable to grasp this concept probably due to feeling like she had the upper hand in the affair in some way. This is more sounding like her delusions are more ego based. Certain personality disorders present like this. But I do think all ws who were romantically connected with the AP, have to unwind some of that. It’s normal, but late, and without accountability it means nothing.

Hiking, to be clear, I only read OP's post,so I wasn't trying to say you were talking about fog.

No I didn’t think that. I just thought what you said was right and wanted to expound on it. I don’t worry about that sort of stuff. But the fog is usually just early days I don’t think it’s that 2 years out. There is something else going on there.

She still has a relationship with the AP, for real or in her head. I don’t think it matters that much which one it is. Talking on a phone or talking out loud. The connection 2 years out is what matters.

How are you going HINHF?

Did you chat with your WW?

"I was only your side piece and you blew up my life"

I don't know, this could be read that she realizes what she had done, and is angry at her AP.

She was possibly talking with her WW hat on, and lamenting to her AP in her mind.

Was it that she was missing him? Could be. It can also be read that she could also be kicking herself in the backside for risking everything for someone who did not care for her. A pity party of sorts.

Like, almost 2 years later she is still crying over him?

She may well be crying for herself.

I appreciate everyone’s input, I have read all of the comments, a few times actually. I had to drop off because this last weekend was a very important event for one of my daughters, and I didn’t want yet another major family event tainted by infidelity or after effects. I put everything away and focused on her and it was a wonderful time.

No, I haven’t discussed this with WW yet. I don’t fully believe that she broke NC, but honestly I’m not sure. Some context, I know that 6 months or so post dday2 she unblocked him on the primary SM platform they talked, and then blocked again same day. I confronted her at the time (but I also had the proof that could not be disputed). She admitted to it, and said she was trying to figure out why she had almost ruined her life for him, but didn’t find anything and realized it was a mistake. Of course I blew up and told her she was still in affair mode and the fact that she hid it basically restarted me to 0. She didn’t contact AP, but still that was messed up.

Then about 8 months ago, i caught AP using a fake SM account actually doing a video call to her. I was highly suspicious of the fake account when I saw it, but couldn’t find anything that was hard evidence. Until he had the audacity to actually call her at 1030 at night. I answered it on my cloned phone and boy that was a shock. Only satisfaction I got was the coward saw me and panicked, immediately deleted the account. I called his sorry ass but coward that he is, hung up and blocked me.

Naturally that was almost the end of my marriage, I didn’t talk to her for a week (and once again I was out of town for work), but i basically told her I don’t give a shit what she does any more. She didn’t get defensive, she swore she had no idea and didn’t talk to him, and that she understood that if I divorced her over this she wouldn’t fight me. She gave me space, and said that whatever I choose after she will agree to. Kept full Transparency, deleted her SM account without me even saying anything, and told me she will delete anything SM wise if it’s what I need and that nothing else matters.

So, I gave her another chance. Things have been better since, now this. I’m exhausted, and I don’t want to play spouse police anymore. I don’t want to snoop around. Again, I have everything so I don’t see any way she could have unblocked AP. If she has a burner, I don’t know if I even have the strength to search/confront her about it. If she actually broke NC, she wouldn’t admit it. I really don’t think she did, I am more inclined to believe it was a pity party. That being said, because of all this madness I still have my hyper vigilance up and I don’t know just how I’m going to go forward. I miss the old days, where I didn’t have to have doubt or suspicion. I miss being able to trust her genuinely, I miss the innocent moments.

There are quite a few comments on this thread that I will reread and answer, I can’t at the moment.

ETA: Just to clarify something. AP used the fake SM account to vid call WW, and I called him on my phone (I of course memorized his number). He remains blocked on her phone.

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 3:39 PM, Monday, April 22nd]