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I think maybe I’ve finally hit the dreaded POLF.

I found out last week that my WW’s APs ex W killed herself. I don’t know more than that, and it has given me mixed feelings. WW feels awful for obvious reasons and I really don’t have it in me to comfort her with this. My W doesn’t know any more details than I do about what happened. Basically we found out from a friend who didn’t know anything about the A when it was going on, shewas a friend of APs ex, and she only told minimum information.

All of this is just crazy. W feels guilty because she is the reason why AP got divorced, and now she’s dead and W probably feels responsible. I’ve been very bitter at APs ex because had she just shared with me what she knew, but I never wished her harm.

That being said, I am ambivalent at best to this news, and certainly not in any place where I can help my W navigate her problems.

What concerns me is I don’t care. I’m finding myself caring less and less. And I’m seeing my W as someone different. It’s like she lowered her value. I can tolerate a lot, but disloyal, especially as we agreed I was the income and she was the SAHM (which she absolutely wanted to do before we even tried to have kids).

Things are good between us for the most part, I don’t trust her but I also don’t care. She isn’t doing anything wrong and is trying her hardest to fix things. It’s just probably never going to be good enough.

The last layer of hell according to Dante was for betrayers, for ever trapped in ice in a frozen wasteland. Sometimes I feel like that the empty cold vacuum of that level of hell seeps into my heart as well.

ETA: I do want to clarify, my WW isn’t expecting me to comfort her, she actually admitted that this is her responsibility and it would be unfair of her to consider that from me. I’m just more concerned about that in my marriage, my W if mourning a death and it’s something that I really can’t get involved in

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 7:21 AM, Thursday, June 20th]

I'm so sorry this happened to you, I can't even imagine what it must be like finding out something horrible like that.

I also think I've hit the dreaded POLF. I am 19 months out from DD and I just feel flat most of the time. I am in less pain and anguish than a year ago, but I also, like you, find myself caring less and less. A year ago I was in so, so much pain. But I also had some hope for our future and at least I felt something. I felt lots of horrible feelings but in between, scattered, were some good feelings. I felt like we were really fighting for our M, working on us, and I believed that if we kept going in that direction we would get to a better place. Also HB was pretty fabulous . These days I don't spin into those same deep states of anguish, I just feel fed up, tired and like I've lost hope. I feel less horrible but also less good in between. I have less hope for our future, I'm not seeing enough change in this amount of time to keep me feeling hopeful. And I just don't see my WH the same way as before, mostly I guess I'm just disappointed.

I hate feeling (not feeling) like this. Not just because it impacts how I feel about my H and our M but also because it has significantly changed my personality. I feel like I've lost a piece of myself I will never get back whether I R or D. That basically happy person I was even with a shitload of trauma in my past, is gone. I miss her the most I think. More than I miss the H and M I thought I had. I used to be such a passionate person with lots of feelings and now I am just tried and fed up and flat. And bitter. I remember my first thought on DD was I will NOT let this make me bitter. 19 months later, I am bitter.

HNHF, MLC,

it has significantly changed my personality

That’s bad news and good news. The bad news is it’s changed in a way you don’t want it to. The good news is if it can be changed once, it can be changed 10 times.

Who you were before the A was naive. You’ve swung to the other side now, and may well have an equally wrong view of humanity. Who you can be is someone with a more truthful understanding of the crooked timber of humanity, with all of its (our) flaws. If you can separate the growth process for yourself from the effort put into the marriage…

Just blathering. You’ve both been heard!

Did your wife ever get treatment after her own recent suicide attempt?

Blue-

Yes, she has actually which surprised me as well. I expected her to sweep it under the rug, but she admitted how awful it was, and that it was horrible of her to blame me. She hasn’t done or said anything like that since, and she is continuing to see her IC and work on herself.

She’s even taken responsibility for what happened to our son. I don’t blame her for APs actions, but I do hold her responsible for bringing that monster into our lives and for being so stupidly blind to his character, and for not considering that our son was acting out the way he was because of AP. That’s still a hard thing for me. I was just a little older than my son when I was assaulted, and he was acting out in many of the same ways I did. He was acting out a lot during the A, I unfortunately was so messed up that I didn’t really see it nor did I really know about the A, but obviously she did. That hurts a lot, and she admitted how selfish and in her own words how pathetic she was that she couldn’t see how bad he was hurting.

Hi HINHF & MLC,

I hear you, went through the same feelings over the last 3 months and it is the strangest feeling, particularly the indifference towards my fWW, taking no pleasure from life and the hopelessness as you transition to your current state, you are not alone. I'm 21 months from DD and I recognised the meh! I was in and told my fWW that I was in that phase and it was something that others go through and I would too.

Lots of golden tips on the site, which I have used to help me move forward. imho you have to go through this phase and out the other side and decide who you are, who you want to be with and what life you want to live. Others have recommended "The Power of Now" by E Tolle and that has been insightful and helped change my perceptions on how I think about me and my life. I think it has some great concepts and it takes time to absorb them, if you chose the book, stick with it.

This week I've climbed off of the POLF, I've been focusing on me and my recovery, I've been using hypnotherapy to recover from IBS and PTSD, and about 30 years of stress of being too hard on me, failing to recognise I am a gentle human being and that I am not my thoughts, I am both enough, and worthy. It's been liberating for me and I can see and feel changes. Particularly serotonin and dopamine being released from the gut, giving me "the feels" as my D says, I haven't felt that in years, even after running for hours.

Exercise, walking, nature, diet all bring benefits. I recommend listening to podcasts, such a treasure trove of wisdom, facts and inspiration. Summer has finally arrived so I am enjoying being outside. It's the little things I find and collectively they have helped me move forward, find joy wherever you can. Be kind to yourself.

This too shall pass,

Be well
Salty

Misery,

Flat is a great way to describe the feelings, or really lack there of.

I used to feel so proud, and even after 20
Years my WW had a special place in my heart. I’m not even really upset about her hurting me. I just don’t feel the same because she betrayed the ultimate bond.

I’m curious about what you meant by the title. Do you mean you feel this is a consequence for your wife?

What concerns me is I don’t care. I’m finding myself caring less and less. And I’m seeing my W as someone different. It’s like she lowered her value. I can tolerate a lot, but disloyal….

Things are good between us for the most part, I don’t trust her but I also don’t care. She isn’t doing anything wrong and is trying her hardest to fix things. It’s just probably never going to be good enough.

Are you thinking about changing course? Or are you looking to be heard? Indifference sounds really shitty, I don’t think I ever got there while in relationship with her.

Sorry, friend.

Ink,

The title is more of warning. In the immediate aftermath of DDAY2 and the first year plus of actually trying to rebuild, it seemed like we could be a success story. Now, two years later, I just don’t know how I feel. I have worked hard on myself, but I don’t feel the same about her anymore.

As a warning, I feel a lot of WS just think if they do everything right post A the marriage will improve or even the fabled "be better than before". For sure I know there are a lot of people here who say that, but I wonder how many more end up here where I am. My WW, though I guess she probably could be described as FWW now, but I haven’t gotten to that yet, is doing everything right, but it will never wash the stain off.

Like lady MacBeth, she can wash her hands forever but they will never be clean.

At least to me. That is what I’m worried about right now.

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 3:47 PM, Thursday, June 20th]

I used to feel so proud…

To rephrase, I was (am?) using my spousal choice and the fact that she chose me to boost my ego, my sense of Self, and it proved to be a two-edged sword. From highest high to lowest low.

I could have written your exact post years ago.

To your wife's credit--if that's the right word--no one can do anything that leads to another's suicide. Suicidal ideations are a symptom of a much deeper personality disorder, often undiagnosed until it's too late. Healthy minds just don't seriously consider suicide. Sure, everyone has passing thoughts, but to actually act on it is purely the choice of an ill mind.
The divorce and your wife's role in it certainly created conditions that contributed to obviously an unwell person tragically taking her life, but it did not lead directly there. Perhaps a distinction without much difference, of course, but it's an important one.
Not to be glib, because every suicide is a 100% avoidable tragedy, but she shouldn't "blame" herself for the POSAP's BS death. Rather, hopefully she's seriously taking stock of the horrible choices she's made that led to so much devastation. That is on her.
I'm sorry you're feeling flat. Like most emotional states, it will pass in time. You will come out of this stronger and your legacy among your kids will be that of someone who endured incredible pain to take care of them.
Stay strong.

Topped off with the death of APs ex. She wasn’t a bad person, despite what lies AP said about her, and she certainly didn’t deserve to be treated with an affair. Coward that he is, he should have D her or whatever. I actually admired her for committing to Divorce once she found out.

I found out, from my WW that the during the start of the A, there was a straw the broke their marriage. she called AP while he was with my WW, (I was still out of the country), and he put her on speaker phone. His ex said basically she wanted to try and make it work, and AP hesitated and stammered. His ex asked where he was and said "you’re with that woman aren’t you?" She filed the very next day.

My WW actually called me the same day and went on this whole charade about how crazy his ex was and that his ex was suspicious of her and AP and how ridiculous is that? So be on the lookout she may contact you, it’s nothing she’s just paranoid. If she does don’t believe her about me and AP.

A lot to unpack with this, especially now that ex is dead, and from what I can gather it does have something to do with AP.

I haven’t checked, but apparently AP is also making a big public show of his grief, and I really want to pop that bubble as publicly as I can. Will be probably one of the few ways I will ever get any sort of revenge

I'm glad your wife is getting help and that's she finally starting to take some accountability for her actions, at least based on what she's saying now.

Unfortunately, it's apparent that the damage that she's done-- above and beyond even the affair itself-- was so extensive that there's no foundation from which to rebuild your marriage. She didn't just burn the house down; she obliterated the foundation beneath it and salted the earth for good measure.

Can you maintain peace and sanity while remaining married to her, at least until the kids are grown?

I hate feeling (not feeling) like this. Not just because it impacts how I feel about my H and our M but also because it has significantly changed my personality. I feel like I've lost a piece of myself I will never get back whether I R or D. That basically happy person I was even with a shitload of trauma in my past, is gone. I miss her the most I think. More than I miss the H and M I thought I had. I used to be such a passionate person with lots of feelings and now I am just tried and fed up and flat. And bitter.

It is an awful feeling. I felt that way for many years. Until I left. Now I have a new and improved version of the person I was before the A. Infidelity is so traumatic, not everyone gets true R and that is ok. Infidelity breaks a M that is what it is designed to do. This is why you see so many M's fall apart after the 5 year mark even with a remorseful spouse.

House-

No, that’s not at all what I meant by feeling so proud. I was proud of how much difficulty our M and relationship had and how much I loved her still. That I could do my job and know that she was doing hers (and being faithful was significant to that). A lot of our marriage I was deployed doing dangerous things, and knowing that I had her and that safety to come home too was special. A lot of my friends marriages were destroyed by the military life, cheating and cheated on main causes. It was something reassuring that I knew my WW was as loyal to me as I was to her despite the chaos around us.

My W/Marriage never gave me an ego boost.

Now I can’t even have that special feeling anymore.

1994,

I don’t know if WW blames herself or not for the death. I actually haven’t talked to her about it, I’m not really interested nor do i think I have the ability to hear her if she does. I blame her for their divorce, and I’m flabbergasted that she could watch the divorce, support his dumb ass through it and never even think that this might be me in the very near future. Plus how much she told me about how what a great guy he was and how awful his ex was.

No, I don’t have the space to deal with her having any guilt or feelings about it. WW earned it, she has to deal with that on her own.

Blue,

Yeah, as time passes I agree more and more with you, especially with the destruction of our foundation, salting the earth is a good metaphor for what happened post dday1.

The way things are at this moment I am content. I am seeing real change in her and she is trying hard to not only fix things between us, she’s really trying to fix her selfishness and how she is with the kids as well.

I don’t know if it will last, for now though things are good enough. I don’t hate her, we can have fun and joke, I can say she looks beautiful to her face and mean it, and I can appreciate the small things she does for me just as a Wife should. Maybe in time it will come back. Maybe not. I’m not going to force it, and there will come a time where I know something will have to change.

She and the kids are going to be out of town in a bit to be with her family, I’m going to assess my situation when I’m alone and see how I feel.

Circumstances surrounding suicide certainly may influence a suicidal person. But no amount of love or good can necessarily prevent suicide either. She isn't responsible for someone else's choices here.

I have very close experience with suicide myself, and there is just nothing you can do differently to stop or change someone else's decision on this matter.

To clarify, I don’t blame WW for exs death. I honestly have no clue if the D affected the ex any which way. She certainly left and filed quickly and from what I can tell never looked back. I was actually rooting for her, she seemed to be really strong.

My mixed feelings are my very deep anger towards her not tying me in at all, and that I was stupid for letting AP stay at my house. I don’t believe it would have prevented the affair, but had I known or suspected or something maybe it could have prevented my kids from being exposed to him.

I’ll never know, and it’s pointless to dwell on it, it causes a lot of conflicting emotions now that I know what happened to her in the end

I’ll never know, and it’s pointless to dwell on it, it causes a lot of conflicting emotions now that I know what happened to her in the end

That seems natural and healthy. I liked what hikingout said on my thread that we don’t heal just to not feel pain, but we heal so that we can feel a wide range of emotions, really experience life fully again. This sounds like a very appropriate response to this difficult life event.