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Part of my reason to leaning more to want to leave is because I feel like now my needs aren’t being met in terms of connection, affection and intimacy. Such as he doesn’t show a huge amount of emotion without first being shown it by me and unfortunately I’m not in a good headspace and keep him at arms length (I.e he tried to hold my hand but I felt uncomfortable and then because he feels like I rejected him he hadn’t tried again)

Likewise he doesn’t always give me hugs (sometimes rarely he will first) and he will hug back if I do first but he mostly only shows more affection if I initiate it first.

I’m sick of being the one responsible for the connection and affection levels in this relationship - surely more should come from him.

My question is am I asking too much from him by expecting him to continue showing me affection despite me pushing him away, or is this a case of what do you expect.. if you’re not showing him affection why would he show you any…but obviously he’s got a lot of making up to do surely?

Also I haven’t been able to tell him I love him since d day and so he hasn’t said it to me (because he doesn’t think it’s nice to say love you to someone when they don’t say it back). Is this unreasonable for me to expect he still says it to me when I don’t?

Wondering if this is doomed and I’m delaying the inevitable, or if it’s me holding us back from being able to give R an actual chance by not opening myself up to him anymore.

Thank you all - as always!!

[This message edited by LittleRedRobin23 at 1:11 PM, Thursday, June 27th]

You don’t need anyone’s permission to ask for what you want in a relationship.

He cheated on you for four years. He should be moving heaven and earth to show you that he has potential to be worthy of your love and affection. He isn’t at all. I challenge you, ask yourself why?

It is always an interesting question, I’ve asked myself many times as well. I’ve never seen my WW treat anyone like the horrible way she treated me. And then I realized, it was because she knew she could and that I would still be there the next day.

You think your cheating partner might be feeling the same way? He had a four year affair, now he’s sorry he got caught, but he has flipped it as to where you are wondering if you’re asking too much. You are asking for the bare minimum. Doesn’t matter if you keep pushing him away. He wants this, he will deal with the small price and small amount of pain of rejection, especially considering how much more he brought to you.

You are too kind and empathetic towards someone who is taking major advantage of it. He is still taking you a ride.

Don’t waste anymore time on hoping he will change. Change is hard and requires selflessness and courage. He hasn’t shown you at all he even knows what that means.

You are wasting your time with him. You definitely don’t need him anymore.

You should be expecting more. I mean really what does he expect after having a 4 year affair that you are going to jump for joy? If he isn't moving mountains to be with you I would end it. He should expect you to take your time to heal while he puts in the work. If he's anything like my ex he will use your lack of affection against you as mine did. My xWS said I kept pushing him away. That's because he didn't make me feel safe enough to let my guard down and I don't think yours is either.

My question to you is have you talked to him about what your needs are? I can see him being hesitant to say, try to hold your hand, after you made it clear you aren't comfortable with it. If he kept trying and it annoyed you, people here would say he's not respecting your boundaries. So is he trying to respect a boundary or is he playing tit for tat?

I think you need to have a conversation where you tell him what you need in super clear terms. For now that might mean you need to see him in pursuit of you even if you can't reciprocate right now. You need the reassurance of a hug or an attempted hand hold or words of affirmation whether you initiate or not. You are wounded and he needs to tend to that wound selflessly.

Or you have talked to him and you're certain he is just not willing to bother unless something is in it for him. If that's the case, yeah, I can see how you'd be reaching the end here.

I agree with the others, that you do need to communicate. When my husband would do that (pull away from affection) I assumed he was asking me to leave him alone. I feared not respecting that. But we did have a talk one day and I realized that he felt different ways at different times and he still needed me to do it.

If I am being blunt we had this more over sex. He would say initiate more but turn me down most of the time, I didn’t get it. We learned to talk more- he would say "today I just need some space." And I learned it wasn’t a permanent all the time feeling. And if he had given me the cold shoulder all day or shown anger most of the day he learned maybe it wasn’t fair to expect me to initiate that night. Sometimes I still did, but sometimes I felt emotionally drained, even if it was of my own making.

Wanting him to say I love you, I totally get it. But let me ask you, how do you think you will feel when he says it? Does it mean much to you right now? The reason I ask is because sometimes we do miss normalcy, but I think most new ws need to think about what love is and back up the words. If you think it will comfort you, that’s one thing but I found that to be prickly at best the first year. Most of the time I heard "no you don’t" in return and it got to where it felt detrimental to say it.

I totally get that a ws needs to lead but it is confusing because I really did want to give him what he needed but I just couldn’t guess all the time what that was. It seemed like giving him space was what he wanted.

When he asked for a divorce in month ten as a result of some of this, I made some big declarations to him. I finally said look, I will do whatever it is you want. I want to be respectful of whatever that is. But from my standpoint, this is the last thing I would want." And I told him all that was in my heart. That took the people here telling me to do it because I was going to go down without any fight. Not because it was what I wanted but I could understand how he wouldn’t want to be married to me anymore.

It was during that conversation he told me he needed me to be consistent even if he couldn’t be. So from then on I did that.

We live in a "if he wanted to he would" kind of world. And I agree that to be true, but it’s more "tell him what you want and if he wants you he will". And if he still can’t do it, then you have a problem. WS are not mind readers any more than anyone else.

But once you have explained it to him, his devotion to your needs should be unmistakeable, consistent, and authentic.

Little Red Robin.

I am right where you are.

Some nights I want to lay in bed and cuddle all night and have sex till the sun comes up (tmi).

Those happen more often than not. We talk about the future our dreams and our kids.

Last night I was polar opposite(this happens a lot too) . I lost my shit because I work from home , I take care of FOUR KIDS all while 911 dispatching (basically.) my kids are 2,3, 7(special needs) and 10. I went off because not only am I mentally not doing well I’m saving us thousands in babysitting. He apologized. Let me go to bed. , cleaned the house and put the kids to bed so I could go read a book. Of course bedoe that he was trying to do the things his counselor asked him to do to heal but in this case I come first.

He came to bed as I was falling asleep and asked me if he could hold me and I told him no. He said he understood and instead held my hand at a distance and we fell asleep. He woke up this morning and apologized and thanked me for letting him hold my hand.

He said he would fight until he died to get me to where I had only good days and we were at a great place. I message him all day asking him if he loves me, what he regrets , we stay up all night talking about what he loves about me and what he hates about what he did.

With that being said he isn’t perfect.

When I push him too far (like any human) he breaks down and cries or just falls apart. Big but.

He has never expects a kiss, a thank you, an apology , Sex, kisses, etc. he is thankful for what I give him and if it’s nothing other than me being here; then he’s happy. One minute I go from wanting to be madly in love with him to the next minute, wanting to rip his throat out. Either way he loves me the same. if I’m being honest when I wanna rip his throat out, he actually loves me more. He gives me my space he apologizes more.
Some days I say, just looking at you makes me want to get sick and he will ask me if he needs to leave, put a shirt on etc.

He encourages me to go to the gym. Go to dinner or read a book.

I am not by any means saying that my marriage is perfect because honestly, he had an affair with a trashy girl and did cocaine in the woods so I’m no better than anybody and he’s no better than any wayward spouse but he’s trying.

I think anything less that he did I wouldn’t accept. I can admit when I’m being difficult. I can ask him if I’m being too much and if he says I am then I get it because I annoy the shit out of myself. But he always tells me I’m not and he will give me reassurance until the day that he dies and give me whatever I need.

With that being said, I don’t think that you’re asking for too much. He should be bending over backwards to do absolutely everything that he can to make you feel safe to make you feel loved and you even being around him should be a gift.

I do agree with others with you should be more honest with him when I’m having a moment or I’m a spiraling. I will tell my husband something triggered me or I’m just having a really bad day. I need you to love me. I need you to lay with me. I don’t just pull away and not tell him. I hate to be gender specific, but men sometimes don’t understand what we need without us verbalize and what we need.

I hope that makes sense. I’m outside swinging all of my kids

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 9:42 PM, Thursday, June 27th]

Maybe just be directive occasionally. Tell him, "hug me" rather than "I need a hug" or "Hugs are nice". Tell him "I don’t want to hold hands right now" rather than saying it with your body language. Other times tell him, "Here, hold my hand."

Make explicit and direct verbally what you are trying to say via body language that isn’t getting picked up. His tuner is set to a different frequency maybe?

My question is am I asking too much from him by expecting him...

Which is it? Are you asking him to do the things you've mentioned to us or are you expecting him to do these things. There's a big difference.

I think you'll find that expressing your terms and conditions for reconciliation as authentically as possible will remove any doubts for him regarding what you hope to see happen.

What he chooses to do with that information will tell you what you need to know. Of course, some WS learn quicker than others. Some will have more courage than others. Some, unfortunately, never seem to care.

I’m sick of being the one responsible for the connection and affection levels in this relationship...

Then stop.

Humans instinctively establish relationship dynamics based upon many various factors (whether family or friends, business associates or neighbors, etc.). We teach others how to treat us based upon the examples we set and the boundaries we draw. They do the same. Once any such dynamics are established, they are difficult enough to adjust in "normal" life, and even more so while surviving infidelity.

Still, the surest way to change a dynamic is to change your role in it.

Here's the thing. The bulk of the work of reconciliation falls upon the wayward spouse. Part of that, of course, is owning and fixing his/her shit. Part of it involves empathy, trying very hard to emiliorate the damage.

Unfortunately, most WS don't have the knowledge or tools to do so any more than most BS have the knowledge or tools to survive infidelity.

Be direct. Be authentic. It's hard... very hard... to be that vulnerable with someone who betrayed you. However, it's the surest way to assess whether or not your WS is a good candidate for reconciliation.

I don't think you are expecting too much. But like hikingout said, even WS's aren't mind readers either. In my situation, I have spelled out to my WW that I want/need a stronger emotional connection with her. I have told her that I don't see a future with her if she doesn't get into IC to work on her. I need to see that work from her to feel safe moving forward. She's rarely empathetic towards me when I'm feeling down, and because of that I don't feel the emotional connection I'd like. I recently learned/admitted to my IC that I am responsible for meeting my own emotional needs. If my WW wont/can't meet them, I will fulfill them on my own. I won't cheat on her, I get most of my emotional needs met by close friends, but I'd be lying if I said I don't yern for that connection with a significant other. I'm in a state where I could possibly be woo'd by the right woman. Again though, I'd never cheat. I would however, choose to end recovery, divorce, and move on in life to something more fulfilling. I hope this makes sense.

He doesn't want your relationship as much as you do.

It may be awkward to reconnect following D-day. For both spouses. There are feelings of shame, regret, insecurities, second guessings, fears, trust issues, more hurt feelings, and moments of quiet and peace, many adjustments etc.

It's important to let the other know what you want, and the best way is to keep it simple and be direct. No long stories.
Sometimes this works well, other times not. Sometimes we are at our best, other times heck no.

Every couple works towards "something" during R. That "something" is so different for every person. So as we are not mind readers, explaining, asking, showing, telling, revealing, etc. are ways we can minimize misunderstandings.

IMHO, R boils down to "do we want to do our best to navigate, adjust expectations and gently talk it out during R ?"
Despite the infidelity consequences.

Hi all

Just wanted to thank you for providing such honest feedback on my thread!!

It’s clear that I’m receiving the bare minimum and yet I’m accepting it but I’m also giving the bare minimum so neither of us are trying which is very sad. I feel like we’re circling a drain but I part of me is clearly holding on to something.

I definitely acknowledge that our communication has fallen off a cliff since the initial d-day revelations and we were very open for a couple of months but it’s like we both have our head in the sand!

I need to put my big girl knickers on and actually have an honest conversation about how I feel and see how he feels.

Even if he starts putting the effort in, it might be too little too late for me now anyway with so much hurt and love lost. I’m sure I will keep you posted! 🤣

Thank you again.