SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’ve had a short break from this platform as I found myself falling down the rabbit hole of everyone else’s stories and trauma and didn’t feel like it helped me understand my own thoughts.

However I’m back for your expert and always insightful comments/advice as I’m, and have been the for the last year, desperately struggling and still don’t know my own mind. Why is this so hard? It should be an easy decision - get out of the relationship where you were fucked over and embrace the people who are loyal and honest.

When I write out my story I think girl what are you still doing with someone who could do that but I’m struggling to communicate how I feel to my partner and I’m very aware that I’m stunting my growth by avoiding these conversations and leaving us in limbo. I just don’t know how to get out of this headspace.

I know I need to talk to him. I don’t know what I’m scared of, maybe his reaction and upsetting him as he thinks we’re all rosy (which honestly I don’t know how he can think that, when there’s no intimacy or connection so he’s just obvious) also scared to blow up my life again the initial blow from him was softened massively by him wanting back in and I think I just didn’t want anything to be true. Scared to make the wrong decision if he’s the one for me (but how can he when he betrayed me for 4 years, unprotected, didn’t know what he wanted during that time or too weak to get out of the situation, hasn’t proposed during our relationship because "would you have wanted me to propose while I was cheating on you")

I feel bad for him that’s he’s ruined his life by what he’s done but I know I’m not responsible for his actions and the consequences of.

I’m not sure reconciliation is worth it, surely no man or woman is worth the pain they put us through after betrayal, but I don’t know how to get out. I’m scared that it could be worth it but I’m not giving it a proper chance so I’m afraid I’m self sabotaging what could be a good second chance relationship.

Perhaps having a break will help give me the clarity I need.

why am I so incompetent at having difficult conversations. The longer it goes unsaid the more awkward it feels.

Should I just send him a text to piss off and move out the house? 🤣🤣

Sorry I’m here with the same old shit again but I’m in such a bad headspace lately and this feels like a safe place to come.

It's very scary to leave and have a major change to your life. I did exactly that after having been with xWS for 25 years/19 married. You definitely need to have the conversations with him or you are just rug sweeping as we call it here and R will not be possible.

I think taking a break from each other is a great idea maybe this will help you figure out what it is you really want.

Leaving a cheater is always a good idea and it's not sabotaging anything. No WS deserves a second chance. That is a gift the BS gives and the WS really needs to be worthy of it. A 4 year affair is no drop in the bucket, that is a major betrayal leading a total double life. I couldn't forgive my xWS LTAs nor the False R he put me through. I just couldn't come back from it no matter how hard I wanted my kids to have an intact family.

I think it's normal to not know what you want and also to struggle post A. I did it for far too many years, the limbo state.

Take a break and give yourself a timeline. IMO starting over is always better unless you believe your WS is redeemable and you will be able to accept the A and all that comes with it. It may be a dealbreaker for you and that's ok.

Now that I am on the other side I can't believe why I struggled for so long to pull the plug on my M. It is so much better being out of it. The way I feel about myself and life is better in spades. Now I am with a partner I can trust, that I have no resentment towards. Someone I can experience intimacy with and no triggers. I no longer had that with my xWS. He repulsed me and I no longer loved him. I had a boatload of resentment for my xWS. I too waffled worried that I was throwing something away. My M and my xWS was an anchor and when I released it was when I started to thrive.

I'm torn between saying nothing or saying something you don't want to hear. Those are my only two options unfortunately, so I'll try to be gentle.

he thinks we’re all rosy (which honestly I don’t know how he can think that, when there’s no intimacy or connection so he’s just obvious)

This is not a good sign at all for a successful reconciliation. He clearly doesn't need your R to be "good" or he'd be confronting this and doing more to fix it. It also shows he's avoidant of problems which is common with cheaters, but it simply must change for him to become safe. Why would it change if neither of you are confronting the elephant in the room?

All of that being said...

I’m scared that it could be worth it but I’m not giving it a proper chance

This is wishful thinking on your part. He's not doing anything healthy or different. You've given it a chance.

hasn’t proposed during our relationship

Still hasn't.

It should be an easy decision - get out of the relationship where you were fucked over and embrace the people who are loyal and honest.

See, you know exactly what should happen.

When I write out my story I think girl what are you still doing with someone who could do that

Your gut is really talking to you. Listen.

Scared to make the wrong decision if he’s the one for me

A guy that doesn't communicate, commit, or stay loyal is not "the one" for anyone.

but how can he when he betrayed me for 4 years, unprotected, didn’t know what he wanted during that time or too weak to get out of the situation

Exactly. You know. You are actually very clear on how you want to be, should be, and DESERVE to be treated.

Should I just send him a text to piss off and move out the house?

This is precisely what you should do. No joke.

Are you in IC? Professionals can be excellent help in building us up to do what needs to be done. Good luck to you. Listen to your gut.

Eta: to be very clear, there is nothing here to suggest that he needs directions or a talking to. For example, he knows you want to be married yet you are not. He does not need guidance or correction regarding this relationship. He needs leaving. He needs to be left. You should not invest one more minute. You've been very clear. It is not your job to try to mold this muddy mess into a lovely piece of pottery. No. It's YOUR JOB to leave this guy and go find yourself some beauty. You deserve it.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:04 PM, Monday, July 22nd]

I say this as someone doing well in R. My WW jerked me around with TT and false R. I found SI and got right in, I went hard 180 and decided I was headed to D. I was done being jerked around and no longer trusted her. I was like a light bulb moment for her, she begged for another chance, but I couldn't believe anything she said. I sat on the idea of R for a few chilly weeks of not speaking to her. During that time she got into IC, deleted her Snapchat, and all the other bull shit she had on her phone to carry out A's.

My W came to her senses and I offered R for a second time and made it extremely clear that I will have questions, I will be an emotional roller coaster, I need a complete written timeline, and to buckle up because we are digging deep into this pile of shit. She agreed to all of it and has been solid for almost 5 years.

I would suggest holding his feet to the fire and see how he responds. Do not hold your tongue on any of it, he did this to you he needs to be willing to get down in that pit with you and help you out of it. He does not think things are rosey, he is being a coward, he's ignoring the elephant in the room. You need to turn this around on him and take the drivers seat, if he doesn't appreciate the gift of R then you have your answer.

I've read some of your other posts, but I can't recall exactly what he is DOING to fix this. Is he in IC? Does he share things that he is learning in IC, ideas that are changing in his mind? Which books has be been reading? Is he working on his Whys and getting to the root of why and how he was able to compartmentalize this other life and lie over and over and over again?

What is he showing you that says he is a worthwhile risk after a whole year in recovery? It is his actions that should be pulling you into R (because you can see the effort, the determination, the change, the growth).

Have you read about sunk cost fallacy? I fear your 12 years already invested and the fact that you are 30 is what is making you stay. You are thinking, "But we've been together so long!" Based on what I've seen here, staying due to the sunk cost belief in your R will not end well. He must change, he must be showing you he is worth investing in. But he isn't doing that, and you are not in control of getting him to do that. You overlook the truth of him and the situation at your own peril.

Thanks for your comments on my mess of a situation. I appreciate your honesty as always!

Crazy blindsided - love that you are thriving now!! Also I read how are you meant to heal in the same environment that hurt you. I feel like I know leaving will be better for me in the long run, he’s proven he’s not a safe partner yet my history with him is overriding it and I think he is safe! Thanks for validating me though - it is so hard.

Owning it now - wow I need that reality check! Thank you. He is definitely not doing the work people on SI have suggested that cheating partners should be doing. I don’t think he’s even googled how infidelity affects a partner to be honest and I think the last few months I’ve not been open to him about how I feel. The things he is doing is wanting to go to the movies together and walk the dog together but really that’s it - he always talks about oh we should do this but then never actually plans to do it - more like a passing comment. Wishful thinking is absolutely correct, I’m still in denial over the reality of his actions.

Tanner - I’m pleased R has worked out for you so far! I think we are both refusing to talk about the elephant in the room which is just making things a lot harder.

How do people have difficult conversations without getting tongue tied or being overly emotional or feeling intimidated by their own emotions? (I hate any form of confrontation and I start to feel like I’m a child again like I’ll be told off which makes me trip over my words even more).

How do people have difficult conversations without getting tongue tied or being overly emotional or feeling intimidated by their own emotions?

Write down the main points you want to make and what you want to say. This will help with the tongue tied problems. For getting overly emotional, that's ok. You can cry, take some deep breaths and keep going through what you've written down.

Feelings are not facts. It's ok to have your feelings. Sometimes it can be overwhelming, but then you may want to slow down, take a breath and realize that you can get through this.

Has he even read How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair by Linda MacDonald? If he isn't doing the work to be a safe partner, then more than likely he'll repeat the behavior. Do you want to find out in 2 more years that he's had another A?

I get you, though. It took me about a year to realize my XWH wasn't doing the work and for my heart to get in line with my head.

Instead of thinking that you're self-sabotaging, maybe think of it as you're getting out of the pit of hellish pain to realize that you need more from the relationship.

I think a lot really depends upon what binds you together. That's different for all of us, it's not just one thing, in most cases anyway. Having children makes all these decisions much harder, being together for a long time, also makes things harder.

A four year betrayal, I don't know how you get through that. Four days, four weeks, four months, four years it's all just extremely mind twisting.

why am I so incompetent at having difficult conversations. The longer it goes unsaid the more awkward it feels.

Agree, that's why it's important to have those discussions frequently without much delay.

The problem is many people don't want to have these discussions, particularly some FWS just want to act like everything is hunky-dory, and just like during their affair, they compartmentalize the past, in a sense it appears like they are acting like it never happened.

I would say that you are exactly where you should be at this point, this close to D-Day. That first couple of years is just Hell.

Leafields - yes I need to write some pointers and get clear on what message I’m trying to tell him. It’s so hard I keep feeling love toward him then feeling like I need to get out and I deserve better.
He has not read any books or done any book - I think I’m having the same realisation you had. But potentially as we’ve not spoken properly he doesn't know what work he needs to do? I told him before what I want from a relationship but we’ve slipped back into what is unhealthy.

Standing here - I think it’s our time spent together and history is what’s holding us together and also what I had thought we would be as well (which did not include this betrayal!) also I do still have love for him but I don’t know if that’s familiar love or romantic love anymore. Perhaps too much damage done.

Why am I even considering staying together after what he did - is this normal?? I always said a ONS I could forgive but an affair no. Yet here I am still in limbo after a year of a horrifically long affair.

Really grateful to all of your comments, I re read them all over and over for a dose of reality and to start thinking logically! Thank you.

Scared to make the wrong decision if he’s the one for me

I think you mean if he is the only one for you.

He’s not. That is a statistical impossibility, with a few hundred million men within range. There are better people out there passing you by daily.

How do people have difficult conversations without getting tongue tied or being overly emotional or feeling intimidated by their own emotions?

Send him a postcard that says, "Goodbye" from your new place, with no return address. You don’t even owe him that, but you have a good heart.

Your gut isn’t sabotaging, your gut is whispering truths.

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 2:38 PM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

In my humble opinion it is so hard because you are still trying to control the outcome - by doing nothing. Seems counterintuitive doesn't it? But it's not. So many of us on here have done the same thing.

By doing nothing you "feel" like you have options - and that you have some semblance of control over those options somehow by holding onto all of them, perceived or real. Once you commit to saying or doing something - to taking action - you don't know what the outcome will be. You don't know what your WS will do with whatever you say or do. This is so as we all know you cannot control how someone reacts to something we do. So you feel like there is "no going back" once you've chosen so you chose to do nothing. It's a big reason why betrayed go along with rug sweeping IMO - maintaining the status quo, even if the status quo is a big heaping pile of excrement.

You are scared. But scared of what? Losing your WS as he/she is today? Do you really want that? Someone you can't trust. Someone who is not "owing it"? Someone who continues to not really get it? Speaking from an experience FUELED by the thought of "losing" my WS by deciding to leave him - by deciding not to get out of infidelity one way or the other kept me in a self-imposed limbo for a long time. It was NOT good for me mentally or physically. It was exhausting being the relationship police. It was exhausting wondering when the next shoe would drop. It was demoralizing worrying about upsetting HIM with my own concerns and my own pain. I recall wondering to myself "Why am I helping HIM right now when I am the one who needs help?"

And the thing is - he knew it and did it anyway. He played into my fears to keep me in check. All that time I thought I was in control when it really was just another power play of his. He did the bare minimum to keep me in line, and continued avoiding himself - his issues - which were the real problem. He was a shitty person all around, wanting me to rug sweep or "suffer the consequences" of his stonewalling, gaslighting, and manipulations.

You can't live that way forever and not suffer long term damage. You simply can't.

Are these decisions scary? Hell yes. But not nearly as scary as they seem. When you decide to make a decision to stick up for yourself either your WS will see you in a different light and decide like mine did that I was no longer interested in playing his game and that he needed to change or this was going to be his future over and over and over again with or without me or your WS will run away, make excuses, continue to try to manipulate you. But you know what? When you decide you are no longer interested in being manipulated you WILL feel better - and for most of us exercising our control does bring some peace, and in turn, some relief from the misery of infidelity.

There is one outcome you CAN control - and that is getting out of infidelity. Putting your foot down with your WS and saying "it's all up to you now - I'm done with you as you are today" IS control and you WILL feel better. You can't control what your WS will decide to do - but you can control what you do with you. It's a lot easier than it seems.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 3:12 PM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

How do people have difficult conversations without getting tongue tied or being overly emotional or feeling intimidated by their own emotions?

The nature of difficult conversations include strong feelings, including fear, not being able to find the words when you want them, etc., etc., etc. If your feelings were low-intensity, the conversations might not be difficult. IDK ... my W has been a mess many times over the last (almost) 6 decades. I haven't always given her the support she wanted, but I've always accepted her. I've been a mess many times over the same period. She hasn't always given me the support I wanted, but she's always accepted me.

IMO, acceptance is a crucial part of love. If you're not getting and giving acceptance in a relationship that's supposed to be fill of love, I'm pretty sure the relationship isn't working well.

(I hate any form of confrontation and I start to feel like I’m a child again like I’ll be told off which makes me trip over my words even more).

I think your life will become much better if you accept that life throws issue after issue at all of us, and the only way to resolve them is to confront. In a relationship, if you and the other person(s) in the relationship don't work together to resolve the issues, why stay in the relationship?

why am I so incompetent at having difficult conversations

Lack of experience, probably. Learn by doing. But W & I still need to psych ourselves up to have difficult conversations, even though we know we accept each other as we are, so maybe it's just the way life works.

*****

LRR23,

You're having a difficult time because navigating recovery from being betrayed is a tremendously difficult undertaking, so be kind to yourself. And have faith in yourself to heal.

The only possible self-sabotage is that you may not be acting in your best interests - but it often takes time to comprehend that, and it takes some more time to change.

R takes 2. You can't do it on your own, and you can't make your WS do the work he needs to do to change from cheater to good partner.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:54 PM, Tuesday, July 23rd]

I wrote my first comment misunderstanding that you were married. I stand by what I said about taking control of this and getting in the drivers seat.
With the knowledge that you aren’t married I will say he has failed the vetting period, he is not your soul mate or one and only, he removed himself from that position.
As well as R is going for me I will never believe my W is my soulmate, we are very good together, but she gave that up. If there are soulmates, I never found mine. If you believe in such things you still have time to go find him.

House of Plane - send him a postcard that says goodbye 🤣 this made me laugh! It’s so odd how now I feel like I’m disrespecting him for protecting my peace as much as I’d love to do this, I’d feel too rude. Clearly have deep set people pleasing wounds ! Thank you though and you’re so right I know there’s more men out there that wouldn’t sabotage a good thing… I’m still in the hopium stage or romanticising what we had and what we planned for our lives together so I thought he was the one and that pull is very difficult to severe (I’m finding).

This is so Lonely - this was really interesting advice and definitely hit home as you’re absolutely right by doing nothing I’m trying to control the outcome in that I have options - it’s funny actually I keep having dreams where he leaves me anyway (even though in real life he’s been very derogatory about the OW and says he’s so much happier out of that situation) but then today actually walking the dog we were talking about a friend staying in a job she doesn’t like and I said well she must like it more than she doesn’t and he said yea if was that bad she’d leave and my head went straight to comments about his affair where he said he felt trapped in it but stayed doing what he did for 4 years so even by his own logic from today he couldn’t have hated it that much by continuing it. No one does anything they don’t want to do!

You’re absolutely right, it is exhausting being the relationship police! Despite my pain I’m always worried now about upsetting him with the truth of my feelings that I’ve been internalising and feeling like I’ve wasted more time and his time. Also feels draining as I feel like I’m the only one thinking about the health of this relationship (although neither of us are really talking about it so I don’t know for sure but that’s how it feels).

Maybe I’ll say that I’m with him as he is and as this relationship is today and he’ll pull his finger out to work on us being a better couple, or it might just be too little too late for us anyway.

Sissoon - absolutely agree you have to accept your partner and they you, warts. I know I’m not perfect and prior to what happened I accepted him fully as he was with his imperfections. But I’m struggling to appreciate that acceptance extends toward significant betrayal - I’m struggling to understand why I even am considering more time with him after what he’s shown he’s capable of. I keep seeing the quote ‘when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time’ - I keep going back to people can change so maybe he has changed and doesn’t want to do that again, but the damage is already done so I’m not sure how this can be repaired - is it just that time heals and more communication and more plans/trips together etc and we’ll be better than ever?

Tanner - no we’re not married - been together 12 years, have a house and a dog. I thought he was my soul mate I said the day I met wow he’s my family. I feel like my future has been taken away because I want children and a loving supportive partner but now I’m 30 I’m running out of time to find either now - most men my age want someone in their 20’s. I’ve never felt so old and like a grandma already I’m so depressed so maybe the best realistic option is about telling him what improvements need to be made and if he puts the work in then great we can start again and have the family, but if he doesn’t then I can’t keep limping along as we have been.

Life certainly frigging humbles you doesn’t it!!! Just want a crystal ball - I guess what I’m most scared of is making the wrong decision by staying if he’s not the right one for me and is limiting my life, or by leaving and it turns out we could have had the happy ever after I dream of.

I fear I wasn't clear enough.

IMO, I wanted to be with someone whose faults I could accept. I also wanted to be with someone who accepts my faults. The burden is on both partners (or all partners in a poly relationship). You seem to be making demands on yourself to somehow give your partner a pass. That's not both of you giving and taking. It's you giving, him taking. You deserve better than that.

I read you to say, in a small voice, that you want out. I read you to say, in a much louder voice, that you want to martyr yourself. I understand being pulled in multiple directions. The way out of the dilemma is to focus on yourself, your strengths, weaknesses, wants, don't-wants, etc.

Focus on you. What do you want to change about yourself and your situation? Distinguish between the changes you can make on your own (or with help) and the areas of change that you influence, and the areas which are ourside your control.

You control yourself. You can make changes in yourself.

You do not control your partner. You can ask him to change, but you can't make him change.

You influence your relationship. You can resolve issues with a willing partner; you can't resolve issues unless your partner works with you to resolve them. You describe a sitch in which you don't have a willing partner.

*****

DO NOT marry him at this time. He's just come off a 4 year A, and he's does not seem to be making changes in himself. He's not a good candidate for M at this point. If he changes from passive cheater to active good partner, you might have a good M in the future, but right now, I urge you to reject any proposal of M, and I urge you to stop hoping for one.

Become an unmarried mom if you want and if you can support yourself and kid well enough, but do not get married to your partner until he changes in ways that you like and need. He looks like he's simply not reliable at this point.

my head went straight to comments about his affair where he said he felt trapped in it but stayed doing what he did for 4 years

My WH also said he felt trapped and his phone does establish that he broke it off with AP several times over a 2.5 year period only to go back time and time again (not including when I caught him - he ended it multiple times with her prior to d-day1 or d-day2 on his own and without my knowledge). Why? Because he wanted to on some level. Did she beg, plead, cry, send him love letters and sexual messages when he ended it? Yes. But again, while his decision to return to the A may not have been 100% full on desire to return - she convinced him, and at least in my WH's situation there is NO convincing him of something he has zero interest in doing. I'm guessing he went back from some combination of guilt for leaving her, the ego boost she clearly gave him with all her begging and pleading, and his own desire.

So I suspect that while your WP may have felt trapped - it was a trap he could have gotten out of had he really wanted to.

I am routinely amazed at the accumulated wisdom on this site. Please go back and read all the responses. The old timers keep trying to get new bs in the midst of this agony to look for that tiny ray of light that you need to see clearly where you are headed. So much terror, agony, despair, they become overwhelming. What you can use this site, and all these very smart people, for is seeing a path, one towards divorce and one towards reconciliation. You need to look for that common sense that you live your life by.

I think everyone would like to shrink down all of the suggestions to something small enough that you can actually print out and put in your pocket to pull out when you need it. The one thing that I can tell anyone in any relationship, but most especially marriage, is if the relationship makes you uncomfortable all the time you don’t need it. If that is how you have to get up and live your life every day you don’t need that marriage. It’s the hardest thing in the world to accept that no matter what you have done nothing has changed that horrible feeling in the belly. That things are going to fall apart if you let go, even for one second. It’s a horrible way to live. So, how did you live before the discovery of the affair? If you had a good solid feeling about your husband, you enjoyed his company, maybe. If he enjoyed yours then r is possible. If it was always you hanging by your fingernails then I’d say so long.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 7:24 PM, Thursday, July 25th]

Thank you! There are absolutely lots of wise souls on this platform. I really appreciate everyone’s two pennies worth on my topic. It’s seems like it should be easy but when you’re living with your partner betraying you, very different kettle of fish.

We had a good relationship before his affair, but we’ve had 4 years of plodding/limping along while he was with the OW (unknowingly to me).

So it’s now whether we can rebuild a new relationship (which we’ve had a year since d day to do but it doesn’t feel like the type of relationship that would be worth the heartache betrayal has cost me). It’s very hard understanding my own mind right now and what I want. Never not wanted to be with him and now I’m questioning everything.

Before my W's A, as I read about As in novels or saw them depicted on screen, I thought recovery was a logical process. My W & I had discussed this early in our M, and we decided that we'd be open to R, if we both wanted it.

Well, that happened, and it happened pretty fast for us. But it happened within the context of trauma an feelings that I just never expected. I do not have the words to describe the intensity and volatility of those feelings. 'Intense' and 'volatile' don't begin to describe them.

And 3.5-4 years later, they were in my past. They still are. We had more work to do to R, and my W(S) had more work to do to heal, but I was mainly healed, with just mop up to do when I got triggered badly. Your timeline may be a lot different, but probably not by much. Even if your TL varies a lot, as long as you keep getting better, you'll probably be satisfied.

Your insights (from your OP in this thread) are right on. He is responsible for his actions. He cheated because of issues within himself, not because of any lack in you. You do have to choose between going and staying, but that's a giant decision. Taking the time you need is the right thing to do IMO. Alas, it always takes longer than one thinks it should take.