SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all. I will try to make this as concise as possible, please forgive me. I have been married for nearly 18 years.
We were young, him just 20, me 24. I had two kids 4 and 8 months old, birth father absent to present day. We married after seven months, rarely apart except for work. He went to another city for a big job interview, the first night away 3 months into the marriage and he cheated for the first time- with a girl he met in the hotel pool, has admitted he was screwing her in less than 30 minutes upon meeting. That was number one. Physically he admits to physical sex with one other women, several chatty flirty relations, one emotional affair that was sexual over video and only not in person because they couldn't meet. He would vilify me to the women he pursued, told them horrible things about me. He never admitted to anything on his own accord, he never felt so guilty or ashamed that he stopped any of these indiscretions on his own. I always found out, suspected, and ultimately he would tell me only so much of the truth, id cry, make up... The last issue, a woman he flirted with, and led to believe our marriage was on the rocks, was seven years ago. He claimed no sex, just spent time with her on breaks and had lunches, they worked a shift that didn't end until 11pm in an empty office building, a team of three. He has claimed he had no sexual interest all this time, just liked the attention. She casually messaged him once claiming she was broke down and needed his help, he declined but I wondered why shed reach out to him and not her own friends etc. he was really mean to me then, that's how I knew something was up anyway. I snooped, found they played little phone games together and he erased messages as they had an empty chat log...He ended up quitting the job. That was seven years ago.
He has a job and he travels a lot, I don't have any real suspicions he has done anything, weird little things I cant exactly remember outside of a feeling, or I was sure were innocent. I stopped snooping four years ago, I feel like if he is still doing this it will eventually come out. I try not to worry.
He is out of town now. This travel could have been avoided. I asked him not to go due to several factors not related to cheating. One is money, he goes out of pocket and employer reimburses but things are tight right now. This is a team building event, and he attended one last year as well. So, we tiffed on that a bit, because money and other obligations, but I conceded its his job and travel is part of it. Last week we were talking, I just met one of his coworkers a few months ago and am familiar with a few more of the guys he speaks well of and that he seems to get on fine with. I asked which of them were attending and he stated listing off names, some I hadn't hard before which isn't odd. They hire and fire a lot! As he is standing there sipping his drink naming names he utters the name of a woman, and midsentence stammers that it splits her two syllable name into four, two being uh...I cant explain that right but I hope you understand. I "think" his face flushed. It set off bells, knots formed in my stomach. I have heard her name before, he said she was cool, they have all had drinks. Last time he mentioned her was a year ago, she been at a company party in another state with him and everyone else. We had a huge fight after that trip, because he got very drunk and didn't call for several hours. I had tried to sound casual but couldn't, he tried to reassure me which made it worse. I snapped at him, we argued on the phone the rest of the night. When he came home it continued, I took him down the memory lane of all of his wrongs, asked for clarity on things and he swore I knew all. Anyway, after he stammered out her name I asked why he seemed nervous, he said he wasn't, he forgot she was going. I asked why he hadn't mentioned her in so long if their so work involved they need to team build regularly, he didn't really answer. We ended up in a huge argument, I pushed on things he had long denied or played down. I dont really know why. I was enraged. He ended up conceding a few very hurtful things I needed him to admit long ago. They are all so fresh now, like they just happened. It feels stupid, I feel stupid. He swears nothing is up, straight path since the last whatever you call it seven years ago. This chicks names he stammered was nothing, he just got tongue tied. Our life is pretty good, we have one child out of the home on their own, one close, one growing close. I can see areas he has changed in, grown in. I am doing well, went back to college and I'm even in an honors program! He called awhile ago, they are all gathering for dinner and drinks, as usual when he travels he tells me his battery is low. For some reason, this or that, his phone didn't, won't, can't charge properly. This doesn't really happen at home. Sometimes his phone is dead for 2-4 hours when he is away from home. He always says its nothing. I cant help but feel like I would have made damn sure to charge my phone and stay in close contact with him in reversed roles. Am I as stupid as I feel?

I don’t think you’re stupid, and there’s no way to be sure what he’s up to, but man that is a LOT of red flags coming from someone who you know to be a serial cheater who’s never really taken responsibility for his actions.

Others here probably have more advice about where to go from here, but I wouldn’t believe anything he says. At this point it’s not so much about him admitting or denying or proving or disproving anything about the current situation. It’s about the fact that he’s never been trustworthy, from the beginning of your marriage until now.

Read that back again, pretending that your friend is telling you this story. What would you tell them?

Cheaters lie and then lie some more. Watch his actions and not his words.

There are some posts in the JFO (Just Found Out) forum that you may wish to read. There are some with bull's eye icons that are very helpful. Be sure to read the ones about recovering before deciding to reconcile.

He's a serial cheater and they rarely change their behavior to be a safe partner. It's so difficult.

I'd bet my next paycheck that he has something going on with the stutter woman. His "phone not charging" is BS; I bet he turns it off so that you can't interrupt him when he's acting out. My H said that he did that. Or he'd "leave it in the car".

You're not stupid. Take a look at my tagline below. "Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven." Change is scary. You've been treated like crap by this man from the beginning, when you were very young and vulnerable with two small children. It's what you know how to handle. You just have to decide if you want to stay on this path with him or if it's time to start thinking about and preparing to choose a different one.

I second leafield's recommendation to do some reading in the JFO forum.

I just wanted to say thank you. He called a few more times last night, and sent some pictures. I have lost the ability to sense for myself, it is just a numb feeling where intuition used to be and a quiet rage. We were both so young, we likely should not have married when we did. He comes from so much dysfunction, as do I. His parents and him rarely speak, his father abandoned their whole family when he was but 16, a womanizer himself. I am 43 years old, I am just too old for all of this. Thanks again. I will be lurking around, tying to figure myself out. I appreciate each of you, it was a long night.

Slightly off/on topic.... life 360 is an app we have as a family and one of the other benefits other than knowing your location all the time is tht it shows you how much battery you have left etc.

My phone is a nightmare as I charge it every night and then use it to play spotify in the car so the battery drains super fast. It's an old beat up note 9 (daughter reliably informed me it was made in 2017) so it runs down to a stupid level by mid morning at times.

It could be all innocent but at least with 360 you could tell, just have to find a way of getting him to install it.....but it is good!!

Thank you for the suggestion, Tinytim. I'm likely to simply word vomit here, I apologize.
He probably would, but I just feel that if he wanted to get around it he could. We used to share location, years ago after the last incident. It would ping him in crazy places, once near the woman's address and once at a hotel he swore he was never at-He claimed it was just a glitchy app. I gave up snooping at all. I have to trust him to stay, don't I? Even if I don't? I am not watching that fools icon bounce around a map, I am not in his emails or messages. My detective days are over, I literally can't summon the will to snoop. He says this is as dangerous to our marriage as his cheating, and he says he fears I will one day assume something and leave him. My mother once suggested I not allow him to go out with coworkers, demand he find another job with less travel- but I will not leash that full grown man. Move freely, sir. Nobody has to check me on what to do or not do as a wife and adult woman. There is this part of me that I am growing to suspect is lying in wait for the next time. After the trickle of truthful expression he has pulled I'm exhausted. This last argument was very bad, maybe one of the worst ever. I wanted to hit him, I did not. He said that he would kill himself if I ever leave and that he is never going to hurt me like he did again. He apologized for withholding, citing fear and shame.
I feel like he has been asking me to forgive him for things he never admitted. He knew every time he asked "what's wrong", what was wrong. I was analyzing stories and the math did not math-he chose to hold my hand and promise he had been truthful. He wants me to find security in shadows, he wants me to remain open when feeling worried but HES BEEN LYING THE WHOLE TIME. Years of me playing his therapist, and mine, for him to lie through it all. He recently said he isn't sure what all he lied about as far as details, but that I do now know all major events. I can't decide if I believe him or not. I cant decide why it matters so much to me.I knew he was lying when I allowed myself to be sold the lie because I did not want to leave our marriage. I feel mad he didn't uphold his lie better at this point. Am I mad he told the truth, now. What in the hell is wrong with me. I feel like I stuffed something last year, tried to ignore feelings I had and this new junk with his inability to say this girls name to my face just opened up a bag full of old bones. I apologize for my rant, I just cant shut up.

I feel like he has been asking me to forgive him for things he never admitted. He knew every time he asked "what's wrong", what was wrong. I was analyzing stories and the math did not math-he chose to hold my hand and promise he had been truthful. He wants me to find security in shadows, he wants me to remain open when feeling worried but HES BEEN LYING THE WHOLE TIME.

WHOA. Girl, keep ranting. You need to get this out, and I hope you read what you wrote over and over again. There's a lot of good information and good insight in your rant. Read it again. The whole thing.

He said that he would kill himself if I ever leave and that he is never going to hurt me like he did again.

NOPE. NOPE NOPE NOPE. That's straight up manipulation. He mindf*cked you for a long, long time, and he's still mindf*cking you.

He says [snooping] is as dangerous to our marriage as his cheating, and he says he fears I will one day assume something and leave him.

No sir. NO SIR. You don't get to lie and cheat and manipulate and then cry that the person you're still manipulating is as dangerous as you for assuming that you're still doing shady things. GTFO.

Hi Sacredsoul, thanks for that. I just cried hard for 15 minutes, and it just stopped. Like, suddenly I didn't need to cry anymore. I think I had been resisting the urge. I cant talk about these things with my family, to be frank both of my sisters are in similar relationships. We sometimes lowkey mention how awfully similar they are in awful ways. I am raising a daughter, because I am made of steel she rarely has no idea there is any problem. She loves her daddy. Our oldest knows more than he should, but not even most of it-I hadnt learned how to fake okay so well back then... but I was able to help him see that his dads cheating on me was not his dad cheating on him by extension. They have a great relationship. Our other son is also blissfully unaware of the absolute hell I live occasionally. I love this man, can accept he lied so much he didn't know what all he lied about-yet some of it was deliberate. he kept it close to his heart to spare himself full consequence. And me, well I suffered. I had to learn to not cringe when he touched me sexually, as it started that movie reel I saw here others understand...I thought id suffocate as he kissed my body as I could only imagine where his mouth had been. How his hand bends over my backside and he grins, I wonder if the same light of excitement shone from his eyes for any of his others. I know it did. That held me hostage for years. I have dealt with this the best way I know how, and I am afraid I am not equipped to deal with it again-real or imagined. I have no plans, no ideas of what may come. Is general ranting permitted here, on days I cant choke it all down can I just post here even if I don't have any new event or juicy development. if its just my rapidly evolving anger and lack of trust in this man, and my absolute heartbreak. I have learned about "painshopping" on here, and I wonder is that what I am doing now? He couldnt say her name, spent the next few days speaking of how aggravating or annoying she is...Right now, I cant breathe deep because I guess I know but I do not know what it is that I know- again. I did not suspect anything before the stammer of a stupid name! What if he did misspeak, what if he didn't. Its a real life game of guess who or what and I don't want to play today.

I think you need to keep ranting just to see what comes out of you. My guess is that you've been suppressing and denying for quite a while. Ranting is allowed on SI, though your post may get moved to the General forum depending on what comes up. Don't worry about that. You won't be in trouble if it does happen.

You're not pain shopping. You've got old hurts, but you're very much dealing with new wounds with an active wayward spouse. Even if he's not messing with this new person, he's still behaving in a manipulative wayward manner. Also, I'm rolling my eyes at him now saying that she's annoying. It's probably meant to throw you off the scent. Anyway - I liken pain shopping to picking at a scab or sticking your tongue in the hole where a tooth used to be. It's when you get an emotional fix - a jolt - from seeking out things that you know will hurt you, like looking at the AP's social media.

You don't have to know what to do today, or pick a direction today. Just listen to your gut. And get a journal and start getting stuff out, or barf it up here.

At my H's company party, my gut pinged when he and a coworker horsed around. Ten months later he was telling me that he loved her and was leaving me for her. Listen to your gut.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 9:17 PM, Tuesday, September 17th]