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I have noticed something as time goes on and what I couldn't put a finger on in the past has come so easily to me now, when I block everyone else out and just listen to my inner thoughts, it is crazy.

I have had a bad bad bad day. Work was rough, I am searching for a counselor for our 11 year old daughter , I had issues with the special needs crew at my daughters school, and I am just down right exhausted from 10 hour days and working with the kiddos.
My H tried to call me several times throughout the day and I just couldn't bring myself to answer the phone, I had no desire to talk to him or to tell him about the struggles I have had.
I politely told him I was having a bad day and I would prefer to just be in my thoughts and the old me would have LOVED to vent, to make a big deal and to I used to love to get comfort but the new me is afraid.
I am almost afraid to show him the side of me that is struggling, I hate when he sees me at my worst and at first I couldn't figure out why.. then it hit me.

He only saw her good side (if there even was one). He saw the fake side of her, the side that had no issues , no drama, all fun and games , she was his escape and here I am drowning in laundry, skipping showers because I am exhausted, looking for counselors for our daughter because I know that this past year has affected her. I am being a messy human (as expected) and I don't want him to be around for it. I don't feel yet that he is a partner to me, I feel like he is still the tornado that ruined our home.
When I explained this to him exactly like I did here he told me he wanted to know every side of me, the good the bad and the in between but he understood my logic and he would wait for me. I didn't respond to that much, I just told him "thanks for understanding".

I don't even trust him to hear about the struggles in our OWN family... the amount of stuff the affair steals from your soul is heartbreaking.
Don't get me wrong, we are choosing our daughters counselor together, not only from his A but from other issues she has had before the A, being a tween is hard these days and with three other kids I want her to have a HEALTHY escape.

Anyways, I am just here to vent, to say that I don't even find it necessary to include him in my struggles and it hurts to the core.
I enjoy my dinner with the kids alone, I prefer to struggle on my own, I prefer to watch tv without him , I just prefer to be alone because the trust in him not only as my H but as a decent human being is gone, some days I just feel ick.

I know that therapy will help and the dive I am making into this church group will help even more with the codependency but I blame him for a lot of things right now , our daughters issues being one. I take ownership for my behaviors after dday and he takes his but I am not at a forgiving point for how he flipped our world upside down and shook these kiddos with it. I know he struggles to forgive himself too. I listened to a podcast on forgiveness and it moved me to tears, and I thought maybe today will be the day I forgive him or even her for that matter, nope. Not even close, damn me and my grudge holding self.

Self reflection and processing my own thoughts have became easier these days, like I am able to tell him more clearly how I feel but the feelings are usually not good.

I know I am still early but it is like two battles going on inside me, one telling me to let him in and one telling me not to trust him.

I would LOVE to find just a bit of peace in my mind but I don't see it coming anytime soon, sleep is back to being awful too so I am sure that doesn't help. I keep throwing myself into work and overtime because when I do that I don't have to think about much with him ya know? I go to the gym and walk and run because it is therapeutic, who can sit still with these thoughts? I am literally running myself into the ground.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:13 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

User, thank you!

Please don’t underestimate the value that you can bring here. You and I are both on similar time frames and I appreciate any advice. You are correct. I know that I’m prolonging my healing and even my therapist told me that. I’ve gotten better with it. I will set at night with a candl lit and I will think about things and I will write and I will journal. I usually go from having a productive few days processing things to not being able to at all for a day or two , rinse repeat.

I am really happy that your husband finally realized what he had and the work that he is putting in. My H has consistently put the work in for the past 7 months and I realized he just can’t help me much right now. Unlike you , I don’t think I care much what he does anymore , if he comes home, if he even calls me and that’s the scary part. Maybe I’m hitting the phase where I’m almost detached from him. I don’t have many days where I can’t wait to see him. We have a weekend planned with our daughter and we are going to paint some doors in the house together. Not sure if I’m looking forward to it or dreading it more lol.

You are also right being vulnerable with him was never easy to begin with tack on the affair and it’s a million times worse now.

Looking back, I can say that I should’ve showed him more of a vulnerable side. I was always hard and uptight and I see my issues in the marriage and I’ve gotten way more vulnerable than what I used too but then I get that vulnerability hangover. Ughhh. Life is hard.

ETA great advice user about the writing my feelings and then giving them to him, I think that is why I prefer texting him vs talking on the phone. I will forward him to vm then communicate by text how I feel, I prefer to write than communicating verbally.

[This message edited by Groot1988 at 12:51 AM, Wednesday, October 9th]

You do sound rather detached from him, Groot. I think you are going to have to honestly search your heart about whether you want to try to re-bond with him. It’s risky business, either way.

He wouldn’t let me go off the phone. He sat up in bed, still very much half asleep but not wanting me to go off the call upset. I said I didn’t want to talk about it and I apologised and he told me to stop apologising, that he knows I can’t just accept that he’ll follow the new boundaries we have. He started asking me about my day and we talked normally on the phone about other things for half an hour or so. He could barely keep his eyes open after a full day of travel and performing. If I hadn’t stayed on the phone, I probably would have been kicking myself all night about the whole situation. But I let him in and he did actually make me feel better.

Not sure if this counts as a thread jack, but I just wanted to comment that this little story really touched me and reminded me of the healing power of consideration and empathy. Thanks for sharing it, 4578.

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[This message edited by user4578 at 8:14 PM, Sunday, November 10th]

Hi Groot,

Sorry you have hade a bad couple of days. Many of the thoughts and feelings you describe are similar to where I am at although I am about 10 months ahead of you in timeline. I seem to be slipping deeper and deeper into what I suppose is the POLF and I am struggling with the same sentiments as you. I am withdrawing and checking out more and more, not sharing my struggles with him the last few months. I have also stopped checking his social media and phone. I'm not sure if it's just a type of exhaustion perhaps? Tired of feeling like I need to check so can 'keep him safe' (I know it doesn't work that way obviously) or if I just don't really care right now?

I hope you can slowly start to give yourself some room to let the feelings in, and not punish your body too much with keeping busy to keep your mind off things. Easier said than done, I know. Wishing you better days.

[This message edited by Miserylikescompany at 11:22 AM, Wednesday, October 9th]

I can empathize. These days I keep to myself things that I feel might make me look weak or vulnerable, both physically and mentally. I have a health issue going on, nothing major, that she doesn't know about. Should she? Yes, she's my wife but these days I just don't share that stuff.

There are times I would rather she not be in the house and it's just me and the kids and the dog.

We are only six months into our attempt at reconciliation so maybe this will change. Maybe she will make some progress with her IC.

In the bottom of my core, I believe my ultimate goal is to reconcile with him.
I feel it in my soul and when I look at him and our children I still love him.
We talk about it quite often now, how he is now the best father and husband I have seen him be ever, I guess you could throw person in there too.
He has grown tremendously since D day and I know that is the man I want to be with, I would prefer to set fire to the man he was before but unfortunately they are one in the same.

You do sound rather detached from him, Groot. I think you are going to have to honestly search your heart about whether you want to try to re-bond with him. It’s risky business, either way.

It is such a rollercoaster that some days I feel crazy. Right after posting this we watched a movie together but he did respect my wishes to not cuddle up and we sat on opposite sides of the couch but we still talked about the movie and it was enjoyable. We both went to bed and he asked if he could hold my hand and we fell asleep.

I apologized this morning for having a bad day, for being so distant and he told me it wasn't necessary and thanked me for watching the movie, he put his phone on our counter and went to take his morning shower. To this day he still doesn't take his phone in the bathroom with him and I have never had to remind him. It was always a trigger for me, probably like much of you have too. I always smile in the morning when I see that because it shows he cares enough about my feelings and our healing, something so small means so much.

You are right Ink, it is extremely risky business, I can not make him stay on this path, he has to want to. He has to become even stronger than he is now and WANT to be a better person and that isn't my decision, he has to want it forever. No matter what we are all human and he has a history of shitty coping mechanisms (I haven't seen any since the A) so I do see growth but I am still on high alert for those signs.

Misery

I hope you can slowly start to give yourself some room to let the feelings in, and not punish your body too much with keeping busy to keep your mind off things. Easier said than done, I know. Wishing you better days.

Thank you for this, you all are so correct in the sense that I need to slow down, I need to breathe, and I need to find a way to cope that doesn't exhaust me, as you all know drinking was my go to and that is gone so I am left kind of scrambling, I am assuming that already prolonged my healing as is so this stage may be here for a while longer than I want it to. I will never be proud of that stage of my life but I will give myself some grace and realize that the trauma was just too big for me and at least now I realize that drinking isn't the answer and neither is running from it either.

User

One thing I’m learning is to take it slowly, one day at a time. If writing things down helps, then he can understand you better and you can see how he responds to that. If that goes well then you could maybe move on to setting aside one night a week or something where you spend time together just the two of you (if that’s possible for you) and then the want to spend time with him might grow. If not, then it might be time to consider your options and what you really want.

YES. We do spend at least a day every few weeks together alone, whether it be on the couch, dinner , movie, or even counseling i guess for that matter. We both have made it a point to put each other first, I think I need to just breathe and let my guard down just a little because some days the walls feel like mountains, for some reason it is so hard for me to really see this man in front of me for who he is now. He is soft, he is patient, he is in touch with his emotions, he loves his kids, he is learning to love himself, and he is head over heels for me..
Some days I look at him and I see that and then other days I see a monster or I see her.

My end goal is to forgive him. I don't think I have to forgive him for the act so to speak or to forgive him for his actions but I can forgive him for being human. I think in my heart I can forgive him for not getting help for his addictions, being selfish to fill a void, and for following the same shitty behaviors as his father, because hey, I had some too.
That is how i try to reframe my forgiveness, I need to forgive somewhere for my own health, I need to start to heal and I know for a fact now, his A had NOTHING to do with me, it had everything to do with himself and his own pain.
In order for me to trust him again to be any part of my life I have to start forgiving myself too for not seeing things for what they were, for the codependency, for ignoring the signs, and for staying when he didn't deserve me in the past. All of those things I am working through, there are just so so so many layers.

OK, sorry for the book but my feelings are flooding at 7am

Don't mean to trhread jack but saw this from @WB1340 and thought I'd share a similar experience.

I have a health issue going on, nothing major, that she doesn't know about. Should she? Yes, she's my wife but these days I just don't share that stuff.

This exact sam thing happened last month for me. It wasn't serious luckily, but could very well have been. I found a lump in my breast, my mother has hade breast cancer. Any other time in or 20+ year history I would immediately have shared with him. Told him I found it, shared thoughts, shared bookings of doctor's appointments, possibly had him come along for support in case it had been cancerous etc. This time I kept the whole 3 week long ordeal with worries and appointments and scans to myself. Never said a word and probably would never have had he not noticed on our family's tracking app I had been in a specific part of town two days in a row and started asking about it since that's where the hospital is. I hadn't mentioned having any appointments? So I fessed up. He was hurt. Understandably. I would have been mad as hell had he done something similar. But I just did not feel like turning to him for support this time. He says he hopes I will change my mind with time, and can feel safe to come to him in the future. Who knows?

Do you feel like it's something you strive to overcome with time? to be able to once again share these things?

You are right Ink, it is extremely risky business, I can not make him stay on this path, he has to want to. He has to become even stronger than he is now and WANT to be a better person and that isn't my decision, he has to want it forever.

Yeah, that is true. AND, on top of that, your feelings for him could change. Enough damage could be done that you just don’t want to be married to him anymore. And I know that isn’t what you are saying right now, I hear your authentic professions of love. But this damage is so deep, and it could happen. So in order to R, he has to do what you describe AND your heart has to remain aligned to that. It’s not all in his control. In order to R, it has to be both of you.

Ink , I love when you respond to my threads because this resonated with me so much, I had to read it a few times to really grasp it

So in order to R, he has to do what you describe AND your heart has to remain aligned to that. It’s not all in his control. In order to R, it has to be both of you.

I take this as, he could be the role model H for the rest of his life , do all the things asked of him, genuinely want to be a good person but that doesn't matter to me at the end of the day if my heart isn't in it. If I already tell myself that he is damaged goods and there is no hope for me to ever love this new version of him, then it doesn't matter. I eventually will have to open myself back up again to the possibility of loving the new version of him.
I have told him many many times all I can do is try, I have always been hardwired to hold grudges and not to forgive. This part of me I want to change, not for him but for myself because I can see now the toxic person I was back in my 20s and I know people can change. That doesn't mean those people have to be my friend again or even forgive me but I can forgive myself.

I only can describe how I feel as this:

I am trying to fall in love with someone that has damaged me the most in my entire life.
I try not to get preachy on here due to the rules but I know we all can be made new, I just have to find it in me to open up my heart a bit. I think it can be done and i think little by little it is but it is going to be an uphill battle, patience is not something I am good at but I am getting better.

Thanks Ink, not sure if that is how you meant it but it helped.

Groot, I had to let go of the fairytale in my head. My H is a flawed person. So am I. We married too young. I think he hit reality long before I did and it made him question whether he wanted to be married. He never said it but his attachment to me was more tenuous than mine to him. I was still so in love with him. I flatly refused to look at the reality of my life. He never mistreated me physically but I look back now at the judgmental remarks THAT I PUT UP WITH. I was still learning to be an adult while having children. I ALWAYS wanted him happy. If he wasn’t I took on the burden of making him so. I did not have enough life experience to understand we had set up a marriage where I was definitely number two. The best thing I ever did for myself was going to work. I have been very good at it and have gotten many compliments. It slowly made me realize I have worth. I don’t need his approval although I do appreciate it.

I think where you are is allowing a new, and more realistic, definition of him to form. You will also need to make sure you know you have worth. The fact that you are a living, breathing human gives you that. Once you know you can stand on your own two feet emotionally and financially you will never allow another person make you feel small. Give yourself time.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 4:52 PM, Wednesday, October 9th]

I am trying to fall in love with someone that has damaged me the most in my entire life.

Personally I think this is maybe part of the struggle.

Cognitive dissonance is something all bs face. Holding two opposing beliefs at the same time is very confusing, painful, and makes you feel you are talking out of both sides of your face so to speak.

Let that go. You do not need to try to fall in love with him. This is partially induced as you are afraid of losing the relationship. Either by your hand or his. I think it’s very normal you are comparing the complicated nature of marriage with children with the (seeming) simplicity of an affair.

When he was in the affair, I guarantee he also experienced cognitive dissonance. You picture it more like the feelings of dating someone. In reality, it’s a lot of trying to force yourself in one direction or the other. It’s not magical, there are a lot of changes to body chemistry that makes it complicated.

And your body chemistry ALSO makes it more complicated. You are in fight or flight because of the trauma, your brain chemistry has changed as a result of that as well. You can’t will that to change over night.

There is a saying about when you stop struggling in water, you float. That is the same emotionally. Stop making yourself feel badly if you have a bad day, stop making yourself try and feel things. It will happen naturally. I don’t think it’s you don’t trust him to tell him about family struggles. I think it’s you feel deep things about those struggles and you are not yet ready to be vulnerable with him. Be okay with that. He seems to be.

I think this period of time requires you to give yourself permission to be authentic in the situation. Trust if he can’t handle it, he ain’t the one, sis. There is nothing abnormal about any of the feelings you are expressing here.

There is going to be a lot of hot and cold. Let go of the idea you have to look or be a certain way for this to work out. I think most people who reconcile do so after realizing there is far more elasticity to their relationship than they could have imagined. I do think you still love him as I have said before and you have said here. But the focus for now - love yourself. Do what you need. He has spent the last decade focused on himself and somehow you are still married. You can have some time for yourself and he can pick up the slack. This is what reconciliation requires. This is how he will build back trust, and when that gets more solid then the ground might be fertile enough for love to grow too. Forcing it before the ground is fertile is not going to reap any harvest.

You must be willing to lose the marriage to save it. And that’s fucking terrifying.but those of us who have done it have crossed that threshold. The marriage dies completely, the ws being a better version of themselves may allow for something new to be built where everything once stood. It takes time for things to clear before the rebuilding happens. Try and find a way to be comfortable in the uncertainty. If he stays solid, you may lean on him again later without forcing yourself. This shit takes years of things just progressively getting better.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:29 PM, Wednesday, October 9th]

Groot—

I try not to get preachy on here due to the rules but I know we all can be made new, I just have to find it in me to open up my heart a bit. I think it can be done and i think little by little it is but it is going to be an uphill battle, patience is not something I am good at but I am getting better.

It sounds to me like you’re still trying to get both feet back on the ground. I was upside down, sideways, and flat out depressed at the same point after dday — and once I did land on both feet, I was pretty sure love wasn’t going to be enough to save anything.

I think you may even be ahead of where I was, because you know you don’t need to be in a M, the next step is figuring out if you WANT the M. Then you’ll know if you have room to be vulnerable or room in your heart to let your WS back in.

Until you know what you want, it’s hard to formulate any kind of trust or a vision of a future with the person, even if they are doing their work to be a better, safer, partner.

No rush either.

One day I simply decided that I wanted the M, only if we could both get the relationship worthy of me and her.

I don’t know that R started in earnest for me until 24-25 months after dday.

Interesting that you noted your level of patience. I think I’ve been voted least patient human on this planet at least twice over the years!

Oldwounds.

Getting my feet on the ground is def what I am working on now and it is so hard.
I have my first church meeting tonight and I just found out yesterday that no only were the women in the group going to be there but their husbands will be too... it is like an addiction/temptation discussion meeting and I will be the only one without my H.
At first I wanted to run and go find a different group, going in there alone is scary, hell I even thought of trying to find a sitter so my H could go but I decided I chose to join this group for myself, not him.

SO here I go tonight all by myself , I never really have done anything for myself and i am excited, so I guess this is the way I start to find my footing.

I am glad I am not the only one that hears that, my patience level hasn't gotten better four kids later lol it has gotten worse but I am trying to slow down and just appreciate the small things , I have never been good at that.

Cooley

Once you know you can stand on your own two feet emotionally and financially you will never allow another person make you feel small. Give yourself time.

This will be such a victory once i can get there.

H/O.

There is a saying about when you stop struggling in water, you float. That is the same emotionally. Stop making yourself feel badly if you have a bad day, stop making yourself try and feel things. It will happen naturally. I don’t think it’s you don’t trust him to tell him about family struggles. I think it’s you feel deep things about those struggles and you are not yet ready to be vulnerable with him. Be okay with that. He seems to be.

Back to that patience thing... hahaha. I am working really really hard to just let things be how they are and just observe, I guess part of me just feels so dumb most days for sticking by him after what he did. Some days I feel lucky that he changed for himself and for us. Just depends on the hour I guess. You are right about the conflicting beliefs, on one hand he has came so far and on the other hand he potentially destroyed a lot of what I though our future could be. He is def ok with waiting and he said he would wait years because he knows that is most likely what it will take.... although we both know it wont be hard every day and we can squeeze some good days in there.

Oh definitely not saying it doesn’t suck or that it’s not hard to find your new normal. Or that you need to be more patient. Just saying be gentler with yourself.

My philosophy is this- awareness of what is causing certain things is half the battle a lot of the time. Being aware of a pattern or a motivation is usually the key to talking yourself out of something.

Merely, I am trying to talk you out of putting pressure on yourself. I suspect that like me you have been somewhat of a perfectionist most of your life. And I used to wear that like a badge of honor a lot of times.

But it also mean having high expectations of yourself. And with that comes self doubt and pressure. I hear it in nearly every one of your posts. So I keep coming at it in different ways. But maybe the best way can be more direct.

You are not responsible for the fate of your marriage or how he might feel. You are not responsible for deciding and staying put on that decision. You aren’t responsible for anything other than putting your arms around yourself and recognizing you re always doing the best you can. There is not manual, there is no perfect path. You do not have to force yourself to be nice or engaged and it’s going to be a long time before you can really fall back in love. Love requires trust. He has to work on that a long time yet.

I am not sure if that is helpful or not. But my words are really meant to help you be aware of the pressure I see you putting in yourself. The old normal is gone, it will be a while before you have a new normal. Just focus on the minute and the day you are on. I don’t think it’s him that is putting pressure on you. I think it’s your instinct to be pleasing. I fight that in myself a good deal so I see it in you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 7:30 PM, Wednesday, October 9th]

I take this as, he could be the role model H for the rest of his life , do all the things asked of him, genuinely want to be a good person but that doesn't matter to me at the end of the day if my heart isn't in it.

Yeah, I think we are on the same page. Said one more way, even if he is perfect in addressing his flaws that allowed this to happen in the first place AND moved the mountains to support you, you owe him nothing. R is not in his sole control. You have the option to walk away if that is what you want to do. There are some BS’s that feel an obligation to their WS to give R based off the WS’s efforts. I believe that is counter productive. I agree with others that you shouldn’t feel a pressure to force yourself to feel something for him, much less to fall in love with him. Part of letting go of the outcome is accepting your own desires. D should be a real option that you truly consider with deadly seriousness. If you haven’t done that, it’s hard for me to believe you are really choosing him positively and freely. And if you aren’t there yet, that is ok. It probably took me 18 months to be able to really face D, but I also had a childhood wound in that area that added to my desire to avoid D.

There are some BS’s that feel an obligation to their WS to give R based off the WS’s efforts. I believe that is counter productive. I agree with others that you shouldn’t feel a pressure to force yourself to feel something for him, much less to fall in love with him. Part of letting go of the outcome is accepting your own desires. D should be a real option that you truly consider with deadly seriousness.

Love this ^^^ as some of us just aren't built for R. I believe I am one of them. Even if my xWS had been remorseful and moved mountains, became an outstanding WS I was not one who was willing to work on the M after the A's. Something just broke in me and I wasn't the same again. In a way I was self sabotaging the M. I wanted my pound of flesh and it was unrelenting. This got worse and worse as the M went on and I was put through False R. Part of the reason I decided to D was that no one deserved to be in that situation anymore. My xWS wasn't changing... I wasn't changing and my kids sure as hell didn't need parents like that as relationship role models.

Sometimes I wonder if it is tied to my CSA in that I am unable to forgive or be around any kind of perpetrator that has inflicted trauma onto me. It's just a step too far for me. I hold grudges and they usually stick. I don't see that as a flaw it is just part of my make-up.