SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Setting the scene, we were in a great spot. We had a bury a baby earlier this year, my father died of cancer, my wife had multiple surgeries from complications from the baby, ringing up thousands in medical debt. Through it all we found strength, and pulled together. It's been a rough year, and we have needed eachother more than ever. Saturday night, she dropped an absolute bomb on me.

May of 2023 she was offered a givernment job working with the Army. She is an LMFT (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist). Her job was to get to know the high ranking guys on the Army base, evaluate them, and suggest possible changes in there command styles. She observed the basic training side of post, the MP station, and the Fire Department.

I was very uneasy with this, and told her to not take this job. I have been in the military, have been a cop, and am now a paramedic. I know how these things work out. I know how these guys are. I was ADADMENT on her not taking this job. She turned it down, then ended up taking it after a second offer. She started and loved it. She had police and fire chiefs mesmerized. The higher ranking officers were always hitting on her, offering her trips ect. I hated every second. It started arguments all of the time. I told her none of these guys cared about how smart she was, they just wanted to get her into bed. She attended military balls, went a multiple lunches with different guys. I was ALWAYS worried.

She started going to the assistant police chief's house (who is about 60 years old). One night she stayed until after 2am. I came unrailed and went to his house, to which my wife met with incredible defensiveness, calling me insecure for worrying about a man that much older than us (we are early 30s). By all accounts by some friends I have on the police department out there, they told me not to worry, that he is an old man who basically holds people hostage with his war stories all night, and that he was harmless. I guess she kept going back until he talked her into bed one night. She tells me she was immediately stupidly embarrassed and ashamed.

From my point of view, she worked on base, then one day came home and said she didn't want to work there anymore. She then disclosed to me that she was pregnant. We were not having much sex, but enough to make it borderline believable. When she told me, my response was "who's is it"? She took incredible offense, and it started a huge fight. She told me that she felt unsafe and didn't feel protected working around all the men out there. A few days later she was cleared to work from home, and she never returned to work on post.

Apparently when she found out she was pregnant, she called this other guy first, who told her he had a vasectomy, but stated maybe it had grown back after many years. He told her he wanted her on an out of state flight and he would pay to take care of it. She told him she was keeping the baby, which prompted him to go get his vasectomy checked. He then showed her test results stating he was still fixed, and that it had to be her husband's baby.

Here is the kicker... I have a vasectomy too... our doctor said it was very believable mine had healed itself, due to me having a really bad lower body injury months after mine. The inflammatory response would be enough to heal the fresh vasectomy. We have never had issues with infidelity. Outside of me hating her job, I had no other reason to think this wasn't a plausible possibility.

Fast forward, baby comes early and he is still born (March 24'), on the same day my dad dies. We bury him, and start the double healing process. My wife then starts getting cosmetic surgeries, saying she can't stand the look of her body, knowing she should have a baby right now but doesn't. It maked sense, but I saw these surgeries almost like self harm. She went and got them, put us $20k in debt over them.

She eventually quits her government job all together in September. She was still working from home.

Two Saturdays ago, she sits down and tells me about this whole deal. I also find out half the people in my life have known about this the entire time. I find out we don't know who the father of the baby is. I find out this is why we went into crippling debt. I find out she called this guy one more time over the summer, and guilt tripped him into getting her ex husband a new job (yes, her ex husband worked as a cop on post) so he would have to work further away from where we live (her ex husband is a pain). I also find out the shady mechanic she has been taking our cars too, was this old man's friend. My vehicle still doesn't work $4K later.

Apparently close friends have been encouraging her to tell me. Her ex husband even knew, and he has been telling her to tell me. Her dad got involved when he found all this out, and basically made sure this guy would never contact her again (my wife's dad is this guys boss, the complexity continues).

She has been remorseful. She has been apologetic. She has taken steps to try and assure me this will never happen again...

I am so overwhelmed by all this. I love my wife. She is so attractive. We have kids together. We have been married for 7 years, together for 9. We have had an AMAZING LIFE TOGETHER. I'm crushed by the affair, but even more crushed by year of trying to cover it up. On top of this, the emotional stress has unleashed pandoras box in my head. Every dead baby, shooting, beheading, bad call I've ever run, has risen to the surface of my head. I am an absolute wreck right now. I have a therapist, but it doesn't seem to be helping much. Not sure what to do or where to go from here...

First of all, I'm very sorry for your many losses.

Second, did your W violate LMFT ethics? IMO, it sure looks like she did. If so, she needs to report herself to her professional organization and to the state licensing board and accept the consequences. (My W went through that process.) In any case, you describe someone who needs to do a lot of work on herself. What is she doing to heal?

Third, your description of yourself is pretty normal. It's normal to be overwhelmed. It's normal to surface memories of every bad decision one has ever made. It's normal for d-day to trigger memories of every trauma you've ever experienced.

That doesn't mean it's easy to heal. It's not. Healing takes work, and it's not pleasant. The payoff is worth the effort. Because it's hard work, it takes time. Maybe you therapist is good, maybe not, but results come pretty slowly at first.

What is/are your goal(s) for therapy? Have you told your therapist about your goal(s)? My reco is to discuss your goals with your therapist and find out if your goals fit what the therapist offers.

What helped me was creating an 'observer' ego state. I let my thoughts and feelings flow without trying to govern them, and I watched. I believed they'd eventually get aligned on one resolution or another, and they did.

The thing is: love is not enough. No matter how much I loved my W, I did not see myself staying unless she changed from betrayer to good partner, and that was up to her. I could not change her; she had to change herself. You can't change your W; she has to change herself.

I used therapy sessions for feeling my feelings and getting my thoughts straight. I was overwhelmed with thoughts that sped me from one state to another with no apparent pattern and lots and lots of contradictions - love/hate, stay/go, she was/wasn't doing enough, I could/couldn't accept her A....

A few recommendations:

1) make healing you goal. Give up trying to control the outcome. Separate what you want from what you do - R takes 2, so if you're the only one who wants R, R is likely to beimpossible.

2) Think about your requirements for R. Make them observable and measurable, too, if possible. See if your W will sign on to meet your reqs. If she will, R can start; if she won't, R is a no go.

3) Read widely on SI. Read JFO, General, Reconciliation, Divorce/Separation.

4) Read NOT "Just Friends".

5) Have faith in yourself to heal.

I've gotta run. I may be back to add to this, but I expect others will come around to say what I haven't thought of saying.

*****

I'm back....

Well, I knew on d-day that my W wouldn't cheat again, because she closed her practice and has only a small circle of friends. Also, I wanted R from the start.

I had always been very happily M; so had my W. I was unhappy in myself until about 5 years before the A. My W, too, was unhappy in herself; that's what enabled her A. But R meant, to me, that we would build a better M than we had before the A. The pre-A M wasn't good enough. IOW, I urge you to set high goals and leave if you don't see yourselves reaching them. I lean towards maximizing joy.

What made me commit to R was that I saw and heard my W say that she was fed up with herself, and she decided to change. We talked about the direction she wanted to go in, and I wanted to go in the same direction, so ... R.

*****

My reco is to go for what you really want. Open yourself up to that. You'll probably want to R, D, or gather more info.

If you want to D, hire an attorney.

If you want R and your WS is a good candidate for R (that is, if she will meet your requirements or negotiate different requirements that meet your approval), start R, knowing that you can quit if your WS stops doing the work.

If you want more info, figure out what info you need and how to get it. Alas, often the info you need is obtainable only by waiting to see what happens.

Remember this, however:

1) BS heals BS. WS can provide support (or obstacles), but WS can't heal BS.

2) wS heals WS. BS can provide support (or obstacles), but BS can't heal WS.

3) Together, if you both choose to, you build a new M.

*****

The work of healing:

IMO, your work is to process the anger, grief, fear, and shame out of your body to as great an extent as possible. For me, that meant raging, crying, accepting the fear, and fighting the shame that come with being betrayed. My W's work was and continues to be doing what she needs to do to be a good partner - which means conquering the impulses not to be a good partner. (I do, of course.)

Each of us need to resolve feelings as they come up, share what we want and are willing to give, resolve conflicts and issues.

*****

I hope never to forget my W's A, but at this point (almost 14 years out), triggers and memories are mild to annoying. Our M is good. We're happy with each other (though still not 100% happy with ourselves ), still ** TMI ** .)

IOW, being betrayed will always be part of your story, but it becomes a smaller part of your story as time progresses, if you heal. You don't have to R, but it's part of your story even if you D.

*****

I think you've chosen good immediate goals. Take the time you need to resolve this - you've probably got 50+ years ahead of you. You've probably got another 2-3 months of shock to get through, and people don't make their best choices when in shock.

And keep in mind that as awful as you feel now, it's temporary. You can survive this and thrive.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:58 PM, Monday, November 4th]

I don't think I have ever read something as terrible as this. I am at a loss for words. The lengths she went to to conceal all ofthis are mind-blowing.

Her taking the job is one thing but I fail to understand why she felt it necessary to attend functions with her patients. There is no reason for her to see them outside of her regular hours barring any emergencies. Going to lunches and Military balls? There is absolutely no call or justification for that. Everything is crystal clear in hindsight of course.

I have to ask, do you feel you are 100% capable of performing your job right now? This is by no means a slight against you but with everything you have just learned I would expect you to have an incredibly hard time putting that aside and focusing on a call.

It will take a while for a good therapist to help you process this and start to move forward and this is not something that you can rush. Your mind will heal at the rate it heals, there is no magic potion or therapist that can make this happen quickly and this is totally normal. Family and friends can be a great source of support if you are close to them.

It will take you months before you feel like your feet are back on solid ground and again this is totally normal. Learning of a betrayal or multiple betrayals is incredibly traumatic on the mind and there can be a litany of physical problems that go along with it.

Your primary focus right now should be on you and your children. Your wife has an incredible amount of work to do on herself, by herself. You cannot fix her and she cannot fix you. A couples therapist right now in my opinion would not help. The two of you have a lot of individual work that needs to be accomplished before again in my opinion the two of you are in a place where a couples therapist can help

Get the therapist time to help you but if you feel this therapist is not a good match find another one and if that one doesn't work find another one, until you find a therapist that you feel connected to

Everyone here is here to help and support you however possible. There are a lot of great resources on this site and a lot of members that have far more experience with this than I do

I am thankful I stumbled upon this site after learning about what my wife did and the members here have given me a lot of great advice over the months

To add a little clarity, she was not working in the capacity as an LMFT. The government hired her knowing she could possibly cause change with her therapy experience, but officially she had no clients, just "co-workers" she observed. It was a shady government GS11 spot that was created to dangle attractive therapist in front of mil guys in hope to create some cultural change from the top down in my opinion.

Hi there, Rad.

I am sorry to hear your story but I am glad that you found us. I think the most unfair part of the whole infidelity business is the fact that now we have trauma we did not ask for or earn, but we have to do hard work to recover from. I really stayed in the anger phase because I just really had a hard time getting past the injustice of it all. I filled my end of the bargain!! Why tf do I have to do all this work?! I remembered there were other times when I experienced trauma that I didn't ask for or deserve and decided, well I suppose this is kind of like this (except for the small detail that it was completely preventable if the person who said they loved us would have acted like they did). I think I knew I was mostly healed when I internalized that all of this had nothing to do with me. It was his need for validation. His need for escapism. I am a damn good person and wife and his actions had no reflection whatsoever on me.

What you are feeling is completely normal. I mean, you have learned that the reality that you thought you understood and the wife you thought you had is a complete lie, it takes a little bit to reconcile those realities. Then, you will start thinking of past events, with this new truth overlay, and things will start to make more sense. You will have epiphanies and, if you are anything like me, you will get really really pissed off.

I remember my xwh being so freaking cruel to me during a pregnancy loss, picking fights so he could leave. I was bending myself into a pretzel, trying to fix what he was mad at me about. Now I know he just creating pretense to go see his mistress. I had to pass the miscarriage by myself in my house and he couldn't drum up enough decency to help me. The thing is, I couldn't really even realize this while we were in the same house together. He would be in my ear, manipulating me and it was only after he left that I started flooding with realizations and epiphanies. I realized he had a broken character and that the cheating was only ONE way it manifested. I realized that my children and I deserved so much better.

It is hard to imagine your future, because you have known what it would look like for years. Now, it isn't clear and that is scary. I understand the comfort in staying in what you already know. I stayed in my comfortable prison for 6 years, 10 years if you count before I knew about the infidelity. Your life can still be amazing and beautiful and fulfilling even if it isn't what you had been imagining up until now.

Keep posting here. Those epiphanies are a real bitch, but we get it here. We have walked that road. You may be tempted to show your ww this site, because the validation feels good and you will want her to see how many people agree that she is a faithless cow, but DON'T. We can give you advice but it is useless if she reads it too. Cheaters only have a couple of tricks up their sleeves that you can predict with crazy accuracy what they will do. It almost feels like clairvoyance, but it is not, cheaters are just not original or as smart as they think they are.

Again, I am so sorry for what you are going through. If you cannot eat, I suggest Atkins shakes. I like the dark chocolate and the chocolate coconut one. They have protein and you can just take teeny tiny small sips and get sustenance. Drink water. Its awful, but without it you will feel like shit and you can't think when you feel like shit. And, if you are having trouble sleeping, there is no shame in the medication game. I personally like cannabis, but you can get sleep aids that you can use temporarily.

[This message edited by BigMammaJamma at 6:20 PM, Monday, November 4th]

You have to look at your own personality. If you are unable to put this aside at some point in the future, be honest with yourself. If you think sometime in the future, you can move on then work on that.

I know myself well enough to know that when there are things that I cannot control, and will probably never control, I somehow put it in a box in the back of my mind and it stays there, and I never open that box. When my husband cheated we were young, and very young parents, I was told but I had no resources. Both parents were ill so I stuck that information in a box and it stayed in the back of my mind until I had a job, and was capable of looking after myself. At that point, I confronted him and it blindsided him to the point that he admitted it. I never asked who, I never ask how many, I never ask anything else. By then we had both grown up, he had stopped traveling, and we bought a business together. I’ve pretty much known where he was since then and still do.

The thing is, your ideas and love will change. My love for my husband was "you are the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me kind" of love and that’s gone. I do truly love him, he’s been a good husband and provider, a great dad , but I know that he cheated. It was many years ago, but I still know he did it. It does alter your perceptions of people when you know things about them that are disappointing. I have a good friend who as far as I knew was an honest person, but I saw her do something one day that I’ve still worried about. A group of us ate at a restaurant and she fell in love with a bowl that was being served and so she took it home with her. I assume people steal from restaurants all the time, but I don’t, and it really bothered me that she did.

I’m guessing that your wife had some affection for the man. It’s my understanding that men can, generally speaking, have sex without affection, but women have a hard time with that. That’s too generalizing I know, but I do feel like, based on what you said, she has had an affair of some sort.

You work in a macho field and you have always worked in some so you knew what she was getting into and tried your best to stop it. I don’t think she had a clue, and now she does. I think you need to see a therapist and see what you can, and cannot accept, and make sure your ws understands that she does the work to put this marriage back together if that’s what you want. You did as much as you could by begging her to please not take the job and she did it anyway, and y’all have paid the price for that. it sounds like she owns it so that’s good but is still up to her to put your marriage back together unless you don’t want it.

Please look after your health. This is so stressful that it really does a number on you physically and your job is already stressful every day. And by the way, thank you so very much for what you do. I’ve had to call EMTs twice because my husband fell and hurt himself pretty badly both times . I had a neighbor who got on a first name basis with the EMTs for her husband. You guys are wonderful.

Also, according to our therapist (who sees us both individually), he states he has seen this coming from her for years. He also told me he has seen a tremendous amount of growth from her in the last few months, and with work, doesn't see it happening again. Obviously I don't believe that.

My goals right now are just to function. To not become a liability at work. To figure out heads from tails. Trying to not do something stupid that will put me in jail. I'm just drowning in emotion.

She tells me she wants to go through this process with me. That if I need to scream, break things, call her names, leave for a while, take her phone, make her quit her job, where a tracker or whatever else, she is willing to do/live with. Somehow that just doesn't seem to be enough. She is adamant on that she doesn't want a divorce. I found of from her dad she has had suicidal ideations since this started, and that she wanted to die and let me find out after her death.

What the hell am I supposed to do with all that?

Edit:
I reread and I am wondering if I read it wrong. She wanted you to find about the infidelity once she died? Still pretty fucked up....

She wanted to kill herself and let you find her body? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

She has bigger fish to fry. It sounds like she wanted to punish you with the ultimate punishment, but why? Why do you deserve that? You need to realize right now that her mental health is not on you. She needs to get that sorted out.

You can't even begin to work on your marriage when she is in that headspace. Somehow she has become a victim of her own choices, so that means you (the actual victim of her choices) and your needs have to take a back seat ONCE AGAIN.

[This message edited by BigMammaJamma at 6:36 PM, Monday, November 4th]

If you aren't seeing a therapist that specializes in trauma you should be. EMDR and other types of therapies work specifically on trauma and from what I hear, have better results that talk therapy. Maybe your current therapist can refer you to someone for EMDR.

Infidelity is traumatic. Your job is traumatic. You need precision help. I hope you get it.

Until you are on your feet your marriage and what you want from it will likely remain unclear. Please get yourself support and help.

What did your therapist see that made him recognize she would cheat?! That is a weird thing to know. He has to keep your secrets and hers. Maybe a new IC for you.

Right now your body has had an electric shock. It is going to take months to settle down. But! You will always know she cheated. That is the stark reality of everyone on this site. You need an outlet. Running, hiking, exercise, golf and being outside are some options for you. Please don’t sit alone in agony. Getting physically busy helps get good hormones flowing.

Btw, even though I write about my h cheating I have no left over angst. I stay on here in hopes I can help because we have a good life. You can too, regardless of what you choose. Do not let anyone tell you what to do. We can make suggestions but you have to live with whatever decision you make. Stay on here because this place is remarkable for helping bs find their way out of infidelity one way or another.

UGH - I have little to add from Sisoon's excellent advice except to - breathe. Let yourself feel all the emotions you are having - pushing them away will not help. Unfortunately in the beginning stages it is almost like you are holding on for deal life to your sanity at times. You are really in a more "normal" place than you think. While this does little to make you feel better right now, please take what solace you can in knowing that feeling the way you do is resoundingly normal.

[This message edited by ThisIsSoLonely at 7:57 PM, Thursday, November 14th]

Also, according to our therapist (who sees us both individually), he states he has seen this coming from her for years. He also told me he has seen a tremendous amount of growth from her in the last few months, and with work, doesn't see it happening again. Obviously I don't believe that

What?! I find it odd that a therapist would disclose that type of information to you and I find it worrisome that he would make a prediction that he doesn't see it happening again. Making a prediction like that is a bad idea IMO. This would honestly make me think twice about this therapist

I’m a Paramedic also and was a cop in the military. For the last 39 years, I’ve worked in a major city, with one of the busiest EMS systems in the US, and I know exactly what you mean by how this experience exacerbates preexisting PTSD. I would have to say that the trauma of infidelity has overshadowed any of the horrors I’ve experienced in the field. It’s an extremely intimate trauma, that you can’t shield yourself from with your usual battery of defenses and counter measures.

With that said, I have to tell you that you’ve come to the right place. The posters here are very experienced, talented and insightful. This place became an extremely important aspect of my healing journey.

Your story, the evolution of your WS’s affair, is very complex. There will, no doubt, be a lot of follow-up questions.

Immediately after D-Day (Day of Discovery), you will be in a state of relative shock and confusion. You’ll go back and forth between wanting to run from, and wanting to fight for, your marriage. Your adrenals will be on overdrive. I would spend this time and energy gathering facts, assessing damage, and getting your arms around the scope of the betrayal with the help of a timeline from her that details the genesis and evolution of the affair.

After your damage assessment, I would then go into damage containment and control. If you read in the Healing Library, there’s guidance on developing a methodical-tactical approach. I know this sounds militaristic and algorithmic, but as a paramedic you’ll understand that when you’re in the middle of a crisis, when you’re under duress, as you are right now, this approach will keep you on the rails, moving forward, methodically, orderly, progressively, like an ACLS Megacode.

And then, as the dust begins to settle, and you begin to recompose yourself somewhat, thinking more clearly, you can begin to contemplate your definitive path out of infidelity whether it’s R or D.

It’s sounds like you’re already well underway with good cooperation from your WS. This is encouraging, but doesn’t necessarily mean that she is reconciliation material, that she is truly remorseful. Only time and actions, consistent actions over time will help make that determination.

It won’t be you saving the marriage, medic, it will be your WS who must do the heavy lifting. She’s got to fix herself and help you fix you, and then the marriage. That’s a huge undertaking for anyone let alone an already compromised wayward. You’re both going to be leaning on each other somewhat, dragging each other’s busted asses back behind the lines.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 6:22 AM, Tuesday, November 5th]

The ole "you're insecure" and "you have nothing to worry about", and then goes and disrespects you...

That's some high level betrayal there and we all know whose baby it was, despite the results and he even wanted to pay for her to unalive it, so he knew...

She's so sorry now huh, but when you were voicing your displeasure with her and the closeness with those guys, you were just a paranoid chump ent?...

This is a sickening betrayal on many levels and I really don't know how one can even be in the same room with someone like that...

Look how many people also knew and said nothing to you. I would give everyone a wide berth, including your wife, if I were you...

[This message edited by Byebyebirdie at 2:11 PM, Tuesday, November 5th]

@TheRadHatter

My God, what a traumatic experience for you. Just know that you were right all along in trying to protect her from exposure to these guys, but, once she was in the job. She drove in headfirst intentionally cheated on you, and hit it apparently, only from you. Shocking that her father ex-husband etc. all knew of the infidelity and you were left as the only guy not in the know. Clearly there was some trauma that made her pull away from the job and the AP. Maybe it was the pregnancy, maybe it was something else. It seems very likely that the AP fathered that child.

In trying to think of something supportive to say, I keep getting stuck on the fact that your support system knew of the affair and did not step forward and tell you about it. I appreciate that they encouraged her to do so in some cases, and your father-in-law actually took action to break the scene up. Still, her making you the unknowing rube who is being publicly cucked in front of everybody for months is hard to forgive. As long as you’re in the community, every time people sees the pair of you, they will think of this. Maybe, if you choose reconciliation, a relocation is in order. Many of us have chosen to stay (so far) with betraying wives, and it seems to me like the intention humiliation and disregard of the husband is an offense on power with the sex act itself. It’s an equal betrayal of the relationship in the marriage, I think. Hopefully, your therapist is up to this task. I certainly wouldn’t fault you if you broke this off and went and search of a more reliable woman. To go, or to stay, is a surprisingly difficult question. Most people would assume you’d leave immediately. In reality, it’s a harder decision than that

She tells me she wants to go through this process with me. That if I need to scream, break things, call her names, leave for a while, take her phone, make her quit her job, where a tracker or whatever else, she is willing to do/live with. Somehow that just doesn't seem to be enough. She is adamant on that she doesn't want a divorce. I found of from her dad she has had suicidal ideations since this started, and that she wanted to die and let me find out after her death.

What the hell am I supposed to do with all that?

Ive read similar expressions from betrayers over and over again. Usually when the guilt comes to be felt accutely. This is no garuntee of a turn around. She has made a massive mess of her life and it threatens to take you down with it. Its a whirlpool of sludge.

If you were my personal friend telling me this story, Id advise seperation and divorce. No question. Full disclosure, I stayed in large part for the kids and it was abject misery for a decade before it ended.

Question for you, I know she gave you a litany of all the things she'd do and didnt want a divorce but have you asked her if she'd be willing to give you favorable terms in a divorce if thats what you needed?

ETA: Given the circumstances, she has abdicated all rights to dictate anything, including and especially whether you will chose to divorce her. This is a point that Id encourage you to make absolutely clear to her. She made her choices unilaterally. You have the right to do the same.

On that note, have you seen an attorney to explore your rights? If not, please do so.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 9:15 PM, Tuesday, November 5th]

I'm so sorry that you're in this situation.

Sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place.

From what you've said, if you stay, you'll never be able to trust your ww again. Too many affairs. You'll be waiting for the next one to happen.

If you decide to divorce, there's a chance she could hurt herself.

I wish I could give you some advice on how to handle this, but after all the things I've done wrong in handling my ww's affair, it wouldn't help.

I wish you luck.

I think it's emotionally manipulative of her to throw the threat of suicide at you as a way to prevent divorce. She made her own choices, and she has to face the consequences. If she tries to be a coward and take the easy way out of it, it's not your fault.

Some more from me....

My heart goes out to your W if she's really thinking of suicide. Neither you nor her father are equipped to treat her. If she threatens suicide in your hearing, have her call the suicide hotline - 800-273-TALK (8255). Dialing 988 may also work. If she won't call the hotline, I urge you to call 911. Make the same recos to her father. If she's manipulating, one experience with 911/988 may stop her; if she's not, she'll probably get help.

I know you'll feel beyond awful if she kills herself, but it's her choice. You are not responsible. You are simply not responsible for her actions, except possibly financially. That's tragic but true.

*****

Focus on yourself first, just like you need to put your own oxygen mask on first in an airplane. Figure out what you want - you'll have an easier time doing what you want to be doing than doing what you don't want to be doing. If you decide to stay for some reason other than wanting to be with your WS until death do you part, make peace with yourself for making that choice. There's no ideal solution.

Repeat: There's no ideal solution. I'm happily M. My W & I love and desire each other. Her A and the terrible few years after it are a small part of our story - but I wish it wasn't.

On SI you'll hear from members who R'ed, D'ed, are gathering more ifo, stayed for finances, stayed for kids, stayed for _____ (fill in the blank). You'll read statements from people who have D'ed and gotten back together. You'll hear from people who are happy with their choices and people who are unhappy with them.

Some people will share their experience as universal and offer it as a guide for what they think you should do. Some will share their experience as specific to them and aim to help you figure out what you want. IMO, you can choose a path from strength (seeing the path as a way to a good life) or weakness (choosing a path from unwillingness to look inside deeply enough).

All other things being equal, a BS can lead a good life in many ways. IMO, your task is to figure out and choose a path that will give you a good life.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 6:37 PM, Wednesday, November 6th]

TRH,

Did you have the baby DNA tested?