SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Part of why I keep digging at AP is because I see a lot of the same traits from the turd who is significantly responsible for almost destroying everything I built, and the way to keep talking about him reflects almost verbatim what my WW would say about her AP both during and in the immediate aftermath of dday2. Again, each time she said something positive about AP it was like having what eas left of my heart ripped out. Even when she didn’t express it, when I would catch her crying over AP, all I wanted to do was throw up in disgust and kick her out.

I just wanted to underline this, I don’t have any actual response other than listen to what he is saying.

Someone who helped you destroy your husband is now the least of your concerns, or should be the least of concerns.

I was where you are and you are minimizing a lot because of your audience. Your story is changing faster than the speed of light.

Look, I get that too. I have been there on this forum. You were probably not expecting the responses and feel enough shame on your own. I get all that. I have been there done that and gotten the T-shirt.

You have an addiction to him and every break in NC makes it worse. It’s like if you were trying to stop smoking or drinking. Oh, I just need one cigarette or one drink to get me through the day. Before you know it you are back to getting drunk or smoking a pack a day.

I heard you use the word remorseful. I don’t think that’s accurate. I think you feel dead inside. I think you are in so much pain that it’s difficult to take on the pain of others. I don’t think I hit remorse until maybe 6 or 7 months in, and then it grew and grew. But before that, it was hard to look fully at the damage of what I did because I was swimming in shame and withdrawal from the affair feelings. Notice that I didn’t say withdrawal from the affair partner. I would have described it differently back when I was sitting where you are. But today and for 6+ years I can honestly say that’s what the addiction was to, that was what drove the whole thing the needing to feel something.

I am not calling you a monster with what I am saying. I think you are getting a good education here from these BS folks. It will help you to help your husband, I have no doubt. But I know you are sitting there in a void.

So here is my new ws pep talk:

-Find a way to get those happy chemicals going in your brain from something other than the AP. Evlxercise helped me a lot with the withdrawal because it gave endorphins. Sex can help too, not sure if you guys are hysterical bonding? Eating well, getting enough rest.

-This is a physical withdrawal, you can’t mitigate it with your mind. But work on your self talk. Are you saying things to yourself that you would say to your best friend? Is it kind?

-spend time in nature or reengage with hobbies. Cleaning and organizing helped me with the anxiety and also when you complete tasks it brings happy chemicals to the brain.

- gratitude practice. That is a huge one. Think about 2 or three things a day you are thankful for and really spend a a few minutes appreciating them. This sounds kind of stupid, but studies show it helps rewire your brain, produces the happy chemicals and even changes blood characteristics. When you think about good intentionally, more good will come.

I used to say this to every new ws. And people probably don’t get it but in many ways this heals the withdrawal and helps you focus more on healthier things that make you happy. In the end what this individual journey is about is finding a way to love yourself and it will make you whole. The void will go.

From that, you will be able to have healthy relationships because you will do it from a place that they enhance your life, not become your life. And that’s how you overcome the love addiction, need for chaos, etc.

it’s a long arduous path- it will require you to embrace your integrity by taking accountability and living authentically (in one life rather than two) It will mean honoring contracts you have made with yourself, and by that way the same will go for the contracts you have made with others. You know why? It feels a lot fucking better to do the right thing than the wrong thing. And the more you do that the more you will walk yourself right into the pocket of well being.

Let’s start now, block him and go NC. If you want to notify him that’s what you are doing, then sit down with your husband and write it together. Then send it and block. Make yourself proud.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:31 AM, Wednesday, June 12th]

I really don't want to talk to him or see him but I don't want to block him, either. I did see him driving home the other day and I thought what was I thinking? Blocking him seems so cruel and i totally get that not blocking him is cruel to my husband. I guess you're right about me having reservations about my marriage. I thought I could do this. It's not even that I want to be with ap.

It's not even that I want to be with ap.

Then what is it?

And please don’t tell me something that isn’t true.

You’re lying to yourself. You’re still having an affair with AP.

Blocking him is the best damn thing you can do. The fact that you won’t means you are still in an affair, and while you may not want to be with him forever, you certainly want to keep the affair going.

You want your cake and eat it too.

You’re still lying to your husband. You must have a secret app or form of communication with him, even if not you’re lying by omission.

Thank you, hikingout ❤️

You’re lying to yourself. You’re still having an affair with AP.

Blocking him is the best damn thing you can do. The fact that you won’t means you are still in an affair, and while you may not want to be with him forever, you certainly want to keep the affair going.

You want your cake and eat it too.

You’re still lying to your husband. You must have a secret app or form of communication with him, even if not you’re lying by omission.

I agree

I agree

Gently, kindly, respectfully, that is not enough. Actions are all that matter here.

Listen to hikingout. Just follow her voice right now while you are in this dark place. She’s been there, she’s come out, she’s helped others do the same. Let go of the filth and take the steps she recommends. You are lucky to have her, don’t waste it.

I want to remind you of one of the very first things you said when you began posting here.

"I will do anything to help my BH heal".

If that is true and you actually mean it, you have two options.

Block AP and never speak with him again and work on your marriage. You don’t block him, then you are continuing to lie and hurt your BH who actually wants to R with you.

Other option is D and let your BH heal without you hurting him anymore.

It really is that black and white.

Ellie,

I won’t pile on to what HNHF but I would like to say what he said a bit differently.

This woman that I know you want to become? The one who loves herself? And as a result has love overflowing on her family? She does the right thing for herself.

If the right thing for yourself is to leave this miserable marriage you describe, then that’s what you need to do. Because what is ahead of you requires you to be all in. Otherwise you are going to continue the cycle of hurting him.l and adding to your void and shame.

No matter what you choose about your marriage, I hope you work in healing yourself. You will repeat these patterns in relationships until you do. Think about where you would like to be a year from now, 5 years from now, even 10 years. You want to be happy right? You hope to be in love with someone. You hope your kids are doing well and life is going to get a little easier.

Start it now, today. Think about what that future self you just pictured would decide for you.

I believe you that you don’t want to leave for the AP. You know why? Because you haven’t. He is single and wants you. The only reason you haven’t gone is because part of you knows that’s not what you want. I don’t know if you want to leave your husband or not, and I don’t think you know either. It’s obvious that you need him at least financially, but I don’t think it’s just that unless the other man doesn’t make enough to support you.

So here is the question, you say your husband has been in therapy for a year. About the same amount of time you have been involved with this other man. And that you are sad you will have to spend time working on the affair instead of the marriage. Are you saying you haven’t observed positive changes in him since he started therapy? Or do you think that’s the part that is pulling you back. Real talk here.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:33 AM, Wednesday, June 12th]

So here is the question, you say your husband has been in therapy for a year. About the same amount of time you have been involved with this other man. And that you are sad you will have to spend time working on the affair instead of the marriage. Are you saying you haven’t observed positive changes in him since he started therapy? Or do you think that’s the part that is pulling you back. Real talk here.

I have definitely seen a change. He is helping more around the house and not yelling at the kids as much. He did have a transgression when we're away one wknd, which involved physically harming our 11 year old son and I was very upset and ready to say I'm done but other than that, he is definitely trying and the overall tension in the house has lessened. 20 years is an investment and it's hard to walk away from that. He loves me so much I feel like I have to try to get back to loving him as much as he does, as much as I used to. Despite what I did he still wants me, horrible person and all, and that's a gift I don't want to throw away. I think we both need to sit with this for awhile to really see if staying together is the right choice. Already, I can see the communication is better and the relationship is softer. The one area I'm most concerned about is the sexual attraction. He is being affectionate and it feels weird to me. If I can't get that back we're not going to get very far. This was happening years before ap so ik it's not that. It would be so much easier if I could just be intimate with him. I've thought about forcing it but I don't think I'm in the head space for that rn.

Then what is it?

And please don’t tell me something that isn’t true.

I'm afraid. I am utterly terrified of being on my own, scraping by, living in some tiny apt only seeing my kids half the time, never finding love again. I'm reluctant to leave my bubble and the family unit. My husband teaches in my kids' school and we are the "lovely family with polite children" who everyone loves. Ik that's all a façade bc behind the scenes I'm a homewrecker, my middle child has regulation issues, and their father verbally abuses them (and is physical with the middle one) but it's an image I want to hold on to.

Well, I hear you and I am all about consent.

I am not trying to force you to feel something you do not, I get it that the two of you haven’t done that in years. I can’t imagine that. We had hysterical bonding.

I am just going to say that seeing you kissing another man, and knowing you had an affair, that’s going to be a big blow to him to know you did want sex but not with him. I do not think it should be inauthentic, but that is something that needs worked on.

It’s hard, because I would not really be attracted to my husband if he was physical with our kids. I don’t exactly know what kind of thing you are talking about. Like this kid is how old and like are we taking leaving marks?

Because if it weren’t for that I would encourage you to focus more on his good qualities, include him in your gratitude practice. Treat the withdrawal total Nc with ap. Go on some dates, or start a hobby together. Anything that would foster a connection that could be bridged into an intimate relationship.

Does he not complain about not having a sexual relationship? It’s confusing, I am pretty sure my husband would ask me for a divorce if there wasn’t a health issue involved.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:55 AM, Wednesday, June 12th]

Does he not complain about not having a sexual relationship? It’s confusing, I am pretty sure my husband would ask me for a divorce if there wasn’t a health issue involved.

He hasn't. He just gives me space. We had like zero physical contact just the occasional peck on the cheek before he left for work. I was just so turned off and honestly couldn't stand him. I have been working through that in therapy and know that has to contribute to his bad moods. He is a moody person, though, even in the beginning when I was a very doting spouse, but his moods affect me, too, so I want to take my part in the responsibility. My ap said the same as you. He couldn't understand why my husband wasn't addressing the no sex more urgently. I'm sure, as a man, he felt like that was a rejection he couldn't bear. I kind of thought maybe my husband didn't care that much about it but we have had a convo about it since and he has said how sexy I am and he wants to have sex with me all the time. That made me feel very say bc idk if I can give him that. I feel awkward with him in that way.

It’s hard, because I would not really be attracted to my husband if he was physical with our kids. I don’t exactly know what kind of thing you are talking about. Like this kid is how old and like are we taking leaving marks?

He just turned 11. He has been difficult for years and the ynmiv between him and his father is strained. Dad is quick to anger and yells at him a lot. And not just demands like "put your clothes away" but language like, "are you stupid?", which steals my heart. The other 2 are well behaved so he feels like he's singled out (which he absolutely is). He just started therapy. The boys (older brother is 13) were verbally fighting on the couch. When this happens I try to let them work it out but I guess 11 yo was making 13 yo cry and dad couldn't take it anymore and grabbed him and threw him on the couch. 11 came running to me crying abd had finger marks on his upper arm. I wasn't quite sure what to make of it I was very angry and confused and alarmed but I didn't want to make a big deal out of it to further cause him to be scared so I went and got him an ice pack that he said he wanted and I sat with him for a little bit. But now I feel like I normalized that behavior and now he doesn't look at me as his protector he looks as me at me as someone who is condoning that kind of behavior. I remember being slapped exactly one time by my mom when I was probably around 7 or 8 because I was talking back but she was so shocked that she did it and it never ever happened again and I was never ever afraid of her. In this situation it has happened more than once and there is no remorse. I talked to him later on and he said why it needed to be done and I told him that our child said it has happened before and he said yes that's true and at that time I just said I don't know what to do right now I am just so confused why you think that is okay, especially as a teacher who works with that exact age group. Of course some people will say oh you should call CPS or whatever and I'm thinking, look, I'm not going to be doing that. I'm not going to ruin my husband's career and leave us all floundering because of this but it does need to be addressed, it is very serious and I am curious if he brings it up in therapy. I'm going to ask him that he should do that and get some guidance from his therapist. My therapist told me to bring it up to our marriage counselor but that is just too much for me to think about right now.

I am not trying to force you to feel something you do not, I get it that the two of you haven’t done that in years. I can’t imagine that. We had hysterical bonding.

There is none of that. He is still giving me space and going at my pace. Ik he would love for me to having sex with him. At least he would be getting something out of this whole awful thing. Soon after this happened we talked about that and he said "I can't keep going like this without any type of intimacy" and I said well what if I never feel it again for you would you be open to having sex outside the marriage? And he said "Yes. Not that that's what I want because I want the emotional connection too..." I think that sort of is the whole problem in a nutshell. He just wants be married to me no matter what. I do think sometimes the affair was my cry for help to get out of this situation that I cannot get myself out of and it backfired bc here we are almost like nothing happened. Classic codependent relationship. This is why marriage counseling (I think) is the right move because even though I did this horrible thing we really just need to get healthy for ourselves and then figure out if it's healthy to stay together or separate.

I heard you use the word remorseful. I don’t think that’s accurate. I think you feel dead inside. I think you are in so much pain that it’s difficult to take on the pain of others. I don’t think I hit remorse until maybe 6 or 7 months in, and then it grew and grew. But before that, it was hard to look fully at the damage of what I did because I was swimming in shame and withdrawal from the affair feelings. Notice that I didn’t say withdrawal from the affair partner. I would have described it differently back when I was sitting where you are. But today and for 6+ years I can honestly say that’s what the addiction was to, that was what drove the whole thing the needing to feel something.

I am definitely remorseful. I even looked it up to make sure I understood the entire definition and yes I'm absolutely sorry for what I did and I am so sympathetic to my husband and what he must be going through. I'm so thankful that he is willing to work through this with me and not make a scene and not make it uncomfortable for the kids as well. I'm sure the feelings will become more intense as time goes on like you said it's compounded by a lot of different things because you're also going through your own hell that really has nothing to do with your husband. I would say for sure it was an addiction while we were in it and we both expressed that same sentiment that it was like a drug being with each other and we understood that this is so intense that it probably wouldn't really work in real life bc it can't be sustained. I mean we had a lot of conversations about how a lot of this was just fantasy stuff and we understood that. Not seeing him and not talking to him has definitely lessened those feelings. I'm not saying they won't keep coming up here and there they definitely have and I'm sure they will but it makes it easier with him out of the picture for sure. The thing that I think about sometimes is how we really ruined something that might have been able to be something had we had the self-control. I think though, it never would have really felt right to me because he was a friend for so long and we live in a very small community and this is someone my husband would be seeing frequently and I care so much for my husband and his feelings that even though I did this horrible thing to him already I can't imagine leaving him for this person because that would just be the nail in the coffin and also I care about what he thinks of me, his opinion of me matters. And I just don't want to be that person who leaves their husband for their AP. I don't want my husband to not want to see me because he is so disgusted when he drops off the kids for my time. That would kill me. So I will most likely be here with him until it doesn't make sense anymore or he ends it or I just get through trying not to dwell on what I want vs what I have. Or maybe we get it all figured out and have the best decades ahead. I'd love that!

I’m not going to write a lot because you are still having an affair, and it is pointless to talk any logic with you.

Until you block AP, you’re cheating on your BH still and if you don’t block AP you will go back to him.

What you are is every BS’s worst nightmare. You say all of the right things, hell you may actually mean and believe them, but you’re still lying and selfish, and worst of all cheating still. And in the most insidious way. All of your words are meaningless because you have yet to back them up with any actions.

Intentions are pointless unless backed by actions.

Your post is a good lesson for any BS on why they shouldn’t even attempt R.

Your BH, though he shouldn’t at all, still has given you trust when he asked if you were done with the affair. You never intended to be a cheater, well your actions prove otherwise.

[This message edited by HellIsNotHalfFull at 2:55 PM, Wednesday, June 12th]

Your post is a good lesson for any BS on why they shouldn’t even attempt R.

Your BH, though he shouldn’t at all, still has given you trust when he asked if you were done with the affair. You never intended to be a cheater, well your actions prove otherwise.

Are you not reconciling with your spouse?

I did never intend to do this. I never even understood HOW someone could feel like doing this until it happened to me. Hell, I never even understood how couples divorce! He doesn't trust me. He is worried I'll go back. I would never but I understand that not blocking ap is keeping the communication open even if I never contact him again. We have yet to have a conversation about what happened. I think once that happens it might look a lot different around here. The things that my husband insisted on the day he found out was I had to sleep in our bed and no phones upstairs. I was in contact with ap (and husband knew) later on bc we had to figure out what to tell the kids and my husband wanted no part in that. I guess that's why I didn't think to block him. I see now how hurtful that is. Thank you.

Ellie,

You appear to be misinformed about how sexual desire works in a long-term relationship. I recommend you read Come Together: The Science (and Art!) of creating lasting Sexual Connections by Emily Nagoski. She has another good book Come as You Are: The Surprising Science that Will Transform Your Sex Life which I also recommend.

Among the many things she writes about is the difference between spontaneous desire and responsive desire. Spontaneous desire is the out-of-the-blue desire for sex, while responsive desire is when desire only emerges in a highly erotic context.

Many women and some men only experience responsive desire in a long-term relationship and so waiting until you FEEL sexual desire before you have sexual intimacy means you will probably be waiting forever.

Another thing she writes about is doing away with the focus on sexual desire and changing the focus to sexual pleasure. In a long-term relationship sexual desire can come and go, so the focus in a long-term relationship should be on giving and receiving sexual pleasure.

She has lots of other good information so I hope you will read them.

In my opinion, denying your husband sexual intimacy for so long is selfish and cruel. If you are not willing to work at it and are just passively waiting around until you feel some sexual desire I am not hopeful for your marriage.

Your curiosity and willingness to engage with this group, though, shows that you are willing to learn. I think you are capable of making changes to become a better wife, mother and person.

[This message edited by icytoes at 4:23 PM, Wednesday, June 12th]

Maybe you have to stop looking at the marriage as being stuck. There is freedom to choose.

Right now you are choosing your marriage for reasons a lot of bs and ws do- kids, finances, social acceptability.

You don’t love your husband. This is not a testament against you, but this is where you are at. My best advice to you is to start there. Work on your definition of love. It’s action. It’s effort. It’s intentional.

I had lost my "in love" feelings for my husband. I loved him, he was my family. But the romantic love in the way I experienced it was gone.

And some of it was my unexpressed expectations. Some of it was learning to approach him with my needs. Some of it was just not spending quality time together and being exhausted by our life. A lot of it was putting my time and energy into someone else (which still feels like you minimize this aspect but you have been thinking about AP for a year)

I know that you may not verbally abuse the children and you are concerned for their well being. I wouldn’t like my husband to ever talk or treat my children this way. But, you must look at what you were willing to do: you exposed them to you affair partner, you have threatened their security of having a family together and you likely have dropped the ball on some things being swept up in an affair. They aren’t getting a mother who is present because your mind is a full web of chaos.

I am not telling you that to shame you but it may help you to see that there are things you can do here to be a better parent, including modeling the type of relationship they should have or accept when they are older. This may help you approach the problem your husband is having with both compassion and consequences. It’s a boundary you need to think about how to set. “This is my biggest complaint, I need you to work on this because I can’t reasonably stay in a situation where the kid is being abused or shamed for his issues. Let’s work on some alternate responses”

Just some thoughts that helped me shape my thinking towards my husband with less judgement. Having a special needs child can be very challenging and I hope he is working on those skills.

Part of falling back in love with him was I had to learn to be different too. I had to learn to work through things and communicate, to express my expectations and be intentional about creating time we can spend together. We did a lot of hiking and talking, but I also get that having young kids at home can get in the way.

If you both want things to be different then they can be with some work.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:41 PM, Wednesday, June 12th]

Yes I am R. If I find out my wife lied to me and didn’t block AP or has contacted him ever since dday2, I will leave and never talk to her again. I won’t even confront her, I will be gone the next day. I already have my exit plan laid out, even now two years later. And I mean, that if I find out even if it was two days after dday2, even after two years of R I will still leave. That is how serious this is.

Same as HNHF, that would be instant divorce as would be catching the other in a lie.