SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For ws who were mean to their spouse and nice to AP

Why?? My Wh is cruel to me but was very supportive

Of AP. AP worked with him and had lots of self esteem issues and he’d build her up. (I need your help, what would I do without you sort of stuff)

I’d love to hear encouraging words from him. All I get is you have been a SAHM for 15 years, must feel great to know your friends in grad school are professors and have PhDs and you are basically driving the kids everywhere and sitting on your fat ass all day.

*edited to remain on topic*

Thanks for the kind heads up admins!

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 6:33 PM, September 17th (Thursday)]

NotMyFirstRodeo, you have a pm.

If you are a WS who wants/wanted R, whether you got it or not, I assume that R makes logical sense to you, and that you believe R should make logical sense to your BS.

What is the reason or reasons that R should make logical sense to your BS?

In other words, what should your BS be thinking?

I'm looking for reasons other than "Because I'm a changed person."

Something more along the lines of "My BS knows ___________ is true, therefore R should make logical sense to my BS."

Or, "The fact is, ___________ is true, therefore R should make logical sense to my BS."

Cheatstroke

I’ve thought a lot about this topic and to be brutally honest, IMO the only thing a BS should be thinking is “How do I excise this cancer from my life.” A WS has no reason or expectation to think a BS should R.

If you are a WS who wants/wanted R, whether you got it or not, I assume that R makes logical sense to you, and that you believe R should make logical sense to your BS.

What is the reason or reasons that R should make logical sense to your BS?

In other words, what should your BS be thinking?

I'm looking for reasons other than "Because I'm a changed person."

Something more along the lines of "My BS knows ___________ is true, therefore R should make logical sense to my BS."

Or, "The fact is, ___________ is true, therefore R should make logical sense to my BS."

I don't think I ever really thought what my BS "should" be thinking. Even in my foggiest time I believed my BS had every right to decide to divorce me. For a long time it was something I was expecting, and even though I think we are well on our way in R, I am acutely aware that he could still change his mind at any time.

I think this question kind of runs on the premise that maybe we as WS thought we could just get away with it. And, I do think we think that...by our spouse not finding out. Because we are so brilliantly clever (sarcasm). But, we hide the cheating for a reason, right? And that reason is because we would no longer be in control of the outcome.

I would advise any new WS to try and still let go of the outcome. The only control a WS has in the situation is what their actions are moving forward.

I would also advise any new BS to also let go of the outcome. Focus only on what they need, and not to put too much stock in a WS who just recently finished betraying you.

I think the most successful R happens because both people know that they have all options available, and all options are viable. Decisions made out of fear or desperation will never have a solid rock to build from.

So, if I had to say what should my BS have been thinking? Exactly whatever he was at the time. He detached from me, he later asked me for a divorce and we worked through the details. All options were on the table. If the BS then chooses the gift of trying to R - that is not something the WS can will or control, it's GRACE. Grace to me in this scenario is defined as something that is given freely but not deserved.

We both had to get very clear on what it was we wanted moving forward. I don't think we could base that on anything that year after the affair.

How long from Dday would you safe you were really a safe partner?

How long from Dday would you safe you were really a safe partner?

This is an interesting question.

It depends on what you consider safe. Not cheating, and not considering cheating? Pretty quickly.

Fully Healed? I will let you know when I believe I am fully there. But, I do feel far more whole than I have ever felt in my life now.

So, I guess if you are looking somewhere in between - I would maybe arbitrarily say about a year out, but I don't really *know* the answer. At a year out I was:

-Not trying to control the outcome

-Well enough and healed enough to help my husband more significantly

-Had been to counseling for 14 months (I started 2 months before confessing)

-Fully transparent and honest

-Fully accountable for my actions

-Fully understood my whys and hows and was working on correcting some of my patterns

-Remorseful

It's a hard subject to grapple with, many think that once you have done it it can easily be done again. I don't know, for me, I would not want to go against my integrity or all I have worked for and I do not feel I would ever want to knowingly hurt anyone else to the extent it did. I do not think I really factored that in ahead, I minimized it. I would never be able to claim that again for sure.

In some ways asking a WS if they are safe seems like a bit of a loaded question. I think of myself as vigilant.

Questions for WS.

Though I realize every affair is different it seems mostly all BS go through the same levels of trauma, healing and possibly reconciliation or sadly divorce. Though I chose reconciliation in my marriage I cannot get past the fact that someone I trusted possibly with my life said horrible things about me to their affair partner to convince them and themselves that I was this horrible person. When he was doing this I was in such a low place with my life and instead of being my support he was acting selfish with his own needs. It hurts so much that he painted that picture of me. I question all WS that reads this, is that how you truly see your BS When you are about to cheat or during? Are we truly this horrible, cold hearted non-giving monster that you are describing to your AP’s? If you have been exposed and trying to reconcile with your BS do you still see them in that negative picture you painted or do you wake up from that delusion you were living in?

I ask myself repeatedly if I made a mistake because at my roughest time he wasn't there for me. What is to stop him from doing it again? Even though he says he wont, that he is in our marriage 100%. Why should I believe him? Why should your BS believe you? Would you stand strong in your relationship even though you may hit another slump that made it easier for you to betray your spouse? Did you stay out of guilt, loyalty or because you truly love your partner?

My story is in my profile.

bluephoenix,

Why should I believe him? Why should your BS believe you? Would you stand strong in your relationship even though you may hit another slump that made it easier for you to betray your spouse?

You probably can't and/or shouldn't believe him, at least not in the beginning.

Your WS really needs to do the hard work to fix himself first. He needs to dig deep to understand why he cheated. That can take some time. For me it took better part of a year.

Then your WS needs to work on making those changes second nature. For me it was learning how to communicate with my BW - about everything. I too often clammed up and bottled stuff in and ruminated and let a monster of bad thoughts build up inside me. I also needed to set better boundaries - even telling my mom that I can't just drop everything to attend to her wilting daisies (yes I did that once).

At the same time you both need to work on your M - learn how to deal with things together, learn how to listen and how to talk. My BW also calls me out on anything she feels I am not being open about - she applies the 'broken window theory' of preventing small stuff now prevents large stuff from happening.

It took time to demonstrate to my BW that I was all in on changing and committing to us. So yeah, I am in the camp that actions speak louder than words. Would I go wayward again if we hit another 'rough patch'? No - given all the work I have been doing.

It takes time and a lot of commitment on both parties to make R work.

Bluepheonix:

I question all WS that reads this, is that how you truly see your BS When you are about to cheat or during? Are we truly this horrible, cold hearted non-giving monster that you are describing to your AP’s

I didn't see my husband as a monster. I saw him as a respectable person and good father. I also saw him as falling in love with a friend of mine and cold, critical uncaring and rejecting of me. I also saw that he gaslighted me about our finances and made me feel like a fraud for participating in lying to his parents to obtain money. I also saw him as taking no accountability or having any humility when it came to working on our issues over the years. Because I was the mentally ill, unstable ADD partner, he rejected any of my input into the state of the marriage and how I felt about how he was treating me. I saw the marriage as hopeless and, while he was falling in love with my friend, too painful to bear.

Monster, no, he wasn't. Our marriage had many issues and I cheated out of that as a way to escape, build up my self esteem and brace myself to divorce. I wasn't thinking about him at all. I was thinking only about myself and my own survival. It is the most selfish and avoidant and destructive thing I have ever done in my life.

So yeah, we had issues in our marriage. He wasn't a monster (and I didn't really see him as such?)

Not sure if that's where your spouse was at the time of the affair, but that's where my headspace was.

What I didn't want to look at during the affair though was my own contributions to his distancing, his criticality and his need to self soothe through the acquisition of material objects. I didn't want to look at the poor coping skills and lashing out I did when depressed post partum and the aggression and defensiveness I had toward him when he would bring up a concern. I didn't want to look at my desperation for approval and external validation. I didn't want to see the co-dependent behaviors this lead me into in our marriage. I didn't want to see how this lead to him being so deprived of emotional intimacy that he would spend and spend to fill the void, eventually falling for my friend as "and ideal woman" escape to get out of the emotional desert I contributed to making in our marriage.

So, instead of fixing this i cheated.

I have a few questions for the WS.

How extensive was any change in your day-to-day routine during and after your A, relative to your pre-A routine? Of course there will be some significant changes, but I would hope you could relay some specifics.

Another one. What exactly made you decide to remain with BS? At what moment did the "fog" fade, and what was the catalyst?

have a few questions for the WS.

How extensive was any change in your day-to-day routine during and after your A, relative to your pre-A routine? Of course there will be some significant changes, but I would hope you could relay some specifics.

Oh a lot. H and I were not spending a lot of time together because he was opening a business, and I was helping him with it but had separate tasks from his. I could not concentrate on anything, my day revolved around texting the AP. I tended to basic responsibilities only.

Another one. What exactly made you decide to remain with BS? At what moment did the "fog" fade, and what was the catalyst?

We had been married, happily, for decades. We had children together. I had some hope we might be able to "find our way back" prior to DDAY. When the affair ended, I put myself in IC and I confessed two months later. I knew we could not survive if I kept this a secret. I also knew he might divorce me if I told him but the damage was already done so there would be no other way for us to work through it.

I would say that the reasons people stay on both sides are similiar and that they evolve. I think often both parties think in terms of more practical reasoning at first - kids, finances, etc..but for us as I did more work and our connection was restored in the end I would say we both stayed because ultimately we really love each other, we enjoy each other's companionship, we are compatible. They are similiar reasons as to why we got married in the first place. But, the reasons in the beginning for both of us were very basic - our kids, afraid of change, afraid not to give it a chance and regret it, etc.

When did you realize that you had rewritten history and developed a warped perception of the relationship and your BS? Was it gradual or sudden? What did you realize you were wrong about and how did it change? What about realizing your own contribution to the problems in the relationship both before A and during, particularly the problems you used to justify the A? Did you find, once you realized, that you being in the A was actually causing some of those problems or at the very least making them worse? Did you treat your BS unfairly during the A? Were you ever able to see specific ways and address them with your BS?

I know these are a lot of questions but they’re all related as you can see. And you don’t have to answer them one by one. I trust you know what I’m getting at, just say whatever you think I need to know. :-)

[This message edited by AintGonnaLose at 11:12 PM, September 19th (Saturday)]

WS, what have you done if your AP is harassing your BS? How do you handle it if they live in another state and you try to block them on everything social and communications? Does your BS get involved? Do you send them a communication telling them to stop harassing and then a cease and desist? Do they try to play a victim in everything when they knew you were married or involved all along?

I am a BS getting harassed by an AP that is 800 miles away but has sent messages to friends and family about my husbands PA.

bluephoenix,

My AP went all nuclear on my BW and was sending her emails to work, etc. Basically the AP was trying to blow things up as much as she could on a demented line of thinking that I would then return to my AP, even though I broke things off before D-Day.

I also was receiving texts and emails from various accounts and numbers.

Then the stalking started with drive-bys of our new house. And then letters in the mail.

First of all, both my BW and I dealt with it together. We did not engage. At first it was a direct no contact letter, followed by continued blocking and then a visit to the local police station to express our concern with the drivebys, and finally a letter from a lawyer basically advising that future communications will be deemed harassment and will be dealt with not only by the police but through the courts.

Things settled down.

You would do well to send a cease and desist letter - via registered mail or similar.

aintgonnalose,

When did you realize that you had rewritten history and developed a warped perception of the relationship and your BS? Was it gradual or sudden?

I started a couple years before my A. My M was not good at the time - lots of stress with disabled kids, several family members died, etc. My BW was getting distant and detached and spending more time with her mom (my BW was depressed and on anti-depressants) and I was also putting all my time into helping others and generally being miserable at home (I was depressed but refused to admit it). Did we talk about things? No, that was mistake number 1. I just let stuff build up and convinced myself that my BW did not love me or care about me, and from there I kept just framing the worst possible scenarios in my head.

What did you realize you were wrong about and how did it change? What about realizing your own contribution to the problems in the relationship both before A and during, particularly the problems you used to justify the A?

About 6 months into my 12 month A I realized I was not right. I started to see how fucked up it all was. I started to see how unfair I was to my BW. I tried a few really weak attempts at trying to talk, and I even started some IC. All the while though I was still to chickenshit to actually open up and talk to my BW (you're probably starting to see a pattern here)

Did you find, once you realized, that you being in the A was actually causing some of those problems or at the very least making them worse? Did you treat your BS unfairly during the A?

I did a great job of treating my BW badly by being miserable at home so she was glad to have me out from underfoot as much as possible. Everything my BW did, I was able to find fault with in my head. So yeah that there is the the demon seed that grew.

Were you ever able to see specific ways and address them with your BS?

Here's the thing - after D-Day the greatest gift my BW gave me was showing me what love is and giving me the chance to really learn how to communicate and talk. My BW accepted her faults in our M and strove to fix that (oh, and she did not take any fault for my A - she made a point of letting me know that was on me), while also standing beside me to help me fix myself.

It really boiled down to communicating - about everything. This morning I vented to my BW about how pissed I feel about our youngest son and how he is out all the time. She let me vent. She let me know my feelings were valid, and we also talked about how stupid we were at that age. I had no intent of bringing this up with my son - but it felt good to vent to my BW about it.

No one is perfect. But we can keep working on things. Make the effort together.

AintGonnaLose,

When did you realize that you had rewritten history and developed a warped perception of the relationship and your BS?

As I came to understand the warped thinking that I had in general, which stems from FOO learning, I realized that I misunderstood and had a warped understanding of my husband from literally the moment we started dating. When we decided to date "officially" he took my face in his hands, said "I love you!" and kissed me. Now that I understand him and know him, and know myself, I know that he was being genuine and sincere and honestly was in love with me. But at the time there was part of me that believed he was being manipulative and wanted something from me (probably sex) and was being over-the-top in order to get it. Now that I think about it, my warped understanding of him began not the moment we started dating but actually before I met him, because I had a warped understanding of everyone and everything. It just carried on when I met him. I was able to find evidence for what I expected him to know, think, do and believe.

What does FOO mean again?

Family of Origin (issues)