SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Help me please.

So when I first found out I went on a mission that collect everything I could get my hands on. I took screen shots of web pages. One webpage said something about why redheads are better in bed or something like that.

It wasn’t that he looked it up but that it was written a month after we decided to try again. It proves to me, that although there was NC he looked this up.

My husband said to me that he didn’t remember looking it up but that he thinks whatever he did the first few months after discovery was still him being in a warped mind. He feels like the Affair was all such BULL crap that he was probably trying to justify why he had blown up his life for this. He didn’t think I was going to stay and he was afraid… but he insists the bottom line was that those first months the dismantling was happening and he doesn’t know if his right mind was in charge.

Can you deal to how you were feeling afterwards? Did you believe stuff then that you know weren’t true?

I've heard from some WS that they lost their feelings like flipping a switch on D-Day. That wasn't me. Don't get me wrong, I could see that OM and I would have been a toxic long term mismatch that would have brought out the worst in both of us. I 100% knew that we had to end. However, our friendship and the things that attracted me to him in the first place were still there. If my BH had suddenly discovered us and demanded I send a curt email informing OM that he was dead to me, I don't think I would have done it. I believe I would have gone NC, but with a much kinder and more emotional goodbye than most BS would tolerate. And while I don't doubt there are WS out there who can throw the AP under the bus without a backward glance, I suspect that many sudden NC emails are followed up with surreptitious apologies to the AP for the way it all went down.

Of course, there's no good answer here. I understand and validate any BS who says the AP knew what they were doing and earned every second of the pain of abandonment. As a mad hatter, I would be upset if my husband was still harboring feelings for someone who had proved themselves to be my sworn enemy. However, I would also be disturbed to learn that he could profess love for someone one day and then toss them to the curb like garbage the next. Between the two, I'd rather believe he made a painful decision to cut them off because I deserved it and because he loved me more, not because he's perfectly fine with using people and discarding them.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:02 PM, Monday, April 17th]

And while I don't doubt there are WS out there who can throw the AP under the bus without a backward glance, I suspect that many sudden NC emails are followed up with surreptitious apologies to the AP for the way it all went down.

I would love the thoughts of any of our other WS. Did you send a secret apology after D-Day?

I would love the thoughts of any of our other WS. Did you send a secret apology after D-Day?

I did not. I finally amputated the A hard and clean after weeks of dicking around, coming up with excuse after excuse to maintain contact while simultaneously trying to work on myself in IC. The pressure of the insanity was finally too much and I didn't want to live like a lunatic anymore. AP outed me with an "anonymous" letter to my BW a week or so later.

I have not had any contact with her since and it will be 4 years on May 12.

[This message edited by SkipThumelue at 3:05 PM, Wednesday, April 19th]

Thanks again. I hope I am not asking too many questions. It’s just that I find it helpful to hear waywards’ thought process and experiences. It helps me to make sense of what has happened.
You say you won’t and couldn’t ever cheat again. Why is that, especially the "couldn’t" part. "Won’t" implies will power but couldn’t implies something deeper. Thank you

I think I can shed a little of my experience on this one. My behavior patterns are different. My hobbies are different. As a Madhatter, I've been on both sides of it, and while I would never recommend it to anyone, still the same it had an impact on me in a positive way as a WH. I have an understanding of the devastation and hurt caused by cheating because I've had to live through being cheated on, but I also live that dual life of having been the cheater.

The biggest thing that came out of my recovery is my new boundaries around the opposite sex. As life tends to do, when I started my journey here on SI in late 2019, the department I managed at work was all male. Fast forward to the middle of 2020, I got a promotion and someone in my group retired, but suddenly a team of majority women report to me. I had a sit down meeting with each of the individually and I came out and told them a little bit about what I and my wife were going through and with that, please understand that there are going to be very clear boundaries. Being upfront and honest about who I am, what I was dealing with and having explicit boundaries made our working relationships more productive, because I'm going to be the boss who walks away if the gals start having girl talk but it is nothing personal or that I'm offended, but it is because the right thing for me to do on multiple levels.

All of this helped me to live a more authentic life, to the point where, recently one of the women in my group came right out and said to me that she had her breast implants removed and she was almost incredulous that I hadn't noticed. Honest to goodness, I only knew that she had stepped away for a surgery in January (because she had taken time off) and that she told me the surgery went well when I reached out that day. She didn't owe me the details of her surgery, for all I knew she was having gallbladder surgery, so I sent her a get well text on the day of the surgery because anytime someone I am close to is going under the knife, I worry about them. This revelation though completely threw me back on my heels. I told her that was something I appreciate her feeling comfortable enough to share but I would've preferred we don't talk about that. I texted my wife that we need to talk about it when we got home, and that night I told her the story. My wife knows her and didn't see it as big of a deal as I did, but she was glad that I brought it to her and told her...we addressed the topic together.

None of what I just described in the previous paragraph was something that I was capable of 5 years ago. I'm not proud to admit that, but I have to admit that to myself because it is the truth. I had loose boundaries with all women and I was far too flirty, but so much of that is my natural personality. I've done a lot of work on myself in IC and through reading and reading and reading up on how to improve and change my behaviors. Today, I'm not that man I was in Feb 2020 when I learned that I was a MH. I'm not going to cheat because I've addressed the wayward thinking and behaviors that got me to that point. There was a time in 2019 that I thought I could just white-knuckle my way through the rest of my marriage, as-in, I could use my willpower to avoid cheating, but the reality is that it starts with having boundaries and enforcing them. If I enforce my rock-solid boundaries, I never even end up in a scenario remotely close to an affair.

My question is as a bw to ws how do you feel about being questioned about the affair? Also should I believe my wh that it pains him to see the pain he caused me?

My question is as a bw to ws how do you feel about being questioned about the affair?

In the beginning, it was excruciating. I didn't want to face myself and what I had done. I didn't want to tear down my internal beliefs that I could fix everything, or that it happened in a bubble isolated from my real life, or that I was somehow a victim of circumstance. I also hated to see my BH in pain. My A was selfish, careless, and cowardly, but it wasn't intentionally cruel. It took a while to see that my lies were cruelty disguised as kindness, while honesty was kindness that felt like cruelty.

Also should I believe my wh that it pains him to see the pain he caused me?

Unfortunately, I can't answer this. I can tell you that it's possible, but I can't read his mind.

Do you still believe the things you told yourself during your A? That your wife didn't care about you? How did you work thru those justifications that you created and find the truth?

Do you still believe the things you told yourself during your A? That your wife didn't care about you? How did you work thru those justifications that you created and find the truth?

Everything I told myself was an insane pile of crap. All of it was just rationalization to cheat.

IC and, you know, ACTUALLY TALKING TO MY WIFE, helped me cut through all the bullshit. I had made up such a fantasy world that was so far from reality that I cringe just thinking about it now.

A small example: I remember yelling at her during a fight long before DD, "It doesn't matter what I want! You'll just do what you want anyway!"

Total projection on my part. She had actually done what I asked her to do. While I could give two figs less about anything she wanted.

This is a fear of mine and I’m afraid to ask.

Did you give the AP the impression when you ended things that the reason had more to do with your kids and family and not wanting to harm them versus choosing your wife again and that you were still willing to make your marriage work?

I hate the thought that the AP might still feel like she still has his heart but he’s staying out of obligation. Even if you know it’s a lie did you leave your AP with that gift?

Howcthappen

Did you give the AP the impression when you ended things that the reason had more to do with your kids and family and not wanting to harm them versus choosing your wife again and that you were still willing to make your marriage work?

In my case I broke things off with AP before she went off on my BW.

I told all the usual lies to AP about leaving my wife, but I never considered that. It was all to keep the ego kibbles going. Lies and more lies all around. In the end I said I was done and staying with my wife, and never planned to leave.

The AP will spin the story in their own mind. Mine thought she was entitled and if she could blow things up between my wife and I then I would go back to AP. The problem is after my lying to her for months what else could I expect.

Fact is, I never cared about AP. I used her. Sure, she used me too, but I used her for my own ends. Did she finally wake up to that later? I sure hope she did, but given that she stalked me and my wife for nearly a year or so after....who knows.

Why should you care about what AP thinks? Seriously. She did not care a whit about you. That your WH lied to her is a given.

Why not jointly work on a no contact letter - spell out the situation and send it to her through snail mail, or just put it in an envelope and throw it in your drawer???

This is a great opportunity to open dialogue between you and WH about this topic. It needs to be addressed.

BTW - a month after D-Day your WH looking something up on internet - well I can understand how that can be an issue for you, but how has he been since with everything. Look, growth takes time. Is he committed today?
(Getting our heads all the way up our ass takes time. It also takes a bit of time and lube to get it all the way back out. I took me years of growth after D-Day to really become a better man and husband. And thankfully my BW also worked on growing with me and committed to working on fixing our M together).

[This message edited by MrCleanSlate at 9:36 PM, Wednesday, May 3rd]

Did you give the AP the impression when you ended things that the reason had more to do with your kids and family and not wanting to harm them versus choosing your wife again and that you were still willing to make your marriage work?

I hate the thought that the AP might still feel like she still has his heart but he’s staying out of obligation. Even if you know it’s a lie did you leave your AP with that gift?

Ironically, I don't think I ever lied to the OM about anything. I saw no need to lie. I knew the A was temporary and told him so, and he said that was what he wanted, too. I either pointedly ignored or stepped down hard on hints about a legitimate relationship or future together.

Did you give the AP the impression when you ended things that the reason had more to do with your kids and family and not wanting to harm them versus choosing your wife again and that you were still willing to make your marriage work?

No. AP and I had always agreed that the A was not about us leaving our spouses and getting together. This, despite the intensity of the physical aspect and the L word being thrown around. AP knew it was ending because I would not leave my W. As for making the M work, its depending on how you define 'work'. Mainly we rugswept it all but it's a crippled thing.

That's an interesting comment SirRobin. I think the ONLY person my wife never lied to (including herself) was her AP!

Did you give the AP the impression when you ended things that the reason had more to do with your kids and family and not wanting to harm them versus choosing your wife again and that you were still willing to make your marriage work?

I hate the thought that the AP might still feel like she still has his heart but he’s staying out of obligation. Even if you know it’s a lie did you leave your AP with that gift?

No I did not. I was beyond done and told EAP so. I left no doubt that I was choosing my BW and that was the last contact I have ever had with her. She sent her revenge letter to BW a week later, but it was never acknowledged with further contact by either of us.

Has anyone disclosed the vast majority of the truth but withheld little bits of the story that you just can’t bring yourself to disclose?

Has anyone disclosed the vast majority of the truth but withheld little bits of the story that you just can’t bring yourself to disclose?

I did. I'm not doing it anymore, but I did for decades.

Has anyone disclosed the vast majority of the truth but withheld little bits of the story that you just can’t bring yourself to disclose?

Yes. Many. Take-to-the-grave carve-outs. However it's been over a decade since I acted out in any way. And still with W thanks to a brisk application of the rug-sweep. Optimal? Hardly. But it's what we have.

Do any WS's exist in a place where they feel their BS's hold deep-seated resentment for them while the BS white knuckles it and remains M for purely logistics and family reasons? If so, have you ever attempted to proactively and verbally address the pink elephant in the room and how'd that play out?

Similarly, do you have any fear that your BS one day encounters someone who they'll abandon you for given that resentment?

Is there a point in which you gave up trying to make yourself better and safer as a spouse because you felt hopeless? If so, how long did that take to become your M.O.?

Do you feel it's more a case of your spouse being unreasonable or of one where you created an untenable scenario where the consequences are commensurate with the betrayal?

In hindsight, do you genuinely feel you did everything you could to R?

Because of my WH's age during the time of his 1st A, I had a question regarding the impact of first love/limerance experiences of WS.

From what I've read, the effects of experiencing love for the first time, especially in the teens or early 20s, leaves strong hormonal and memory imprints. It's mentioned that these imprints become blueprints for how you approach future relationships, because brains are still developing during this period, and these experiences become the foundation (brain wiring) due to firsts being the most impactful. You learn how you want to be treated by another person. It's mentioned that this represents the first time you allowed someone else to significantly influence you and your life.

Was your BS your first love or does your BS remind you of your first love? If so, did that factor into your motivation to want to try R?

Were you reminded of your first love in the AP(s) you chose? Did this show an addiction to old relationship dynamics that were replaying themselves, that you had to work through in IC to understand yourself better, to be a better person and partner? Did your IC work delve deeper into your first love experiences' impact on you?

Thank you for reading these questions and considering answering them. Thank you in advance for any answers you might give.