SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You all experienced Infidelity, so was your relationship fake?

No of course not, and neither is yours. But I will tell you that my perception of what my relationship was was definitely not what it really was. I only saw that clearly after the cheating.

Just my 0.02 here. You want someone to tell you "Yes of course you can reconcile and everything will be hunky dory again it will be like the infidelity never happened."

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. You will NEVER not bear the scars of this. My dday1 was almost 4 years ago. I am mostly healed I think, I don't dwell on it like I did in the early days, I am mostly happy and in a good place. None of that means I still don't have hurt from it.

So is reconciliation possible? Sure - anything is possible. There are any number of members here who have successfully reconciled with their ws's. But if you read them, the one thing those stories allllll have in common is that they had ws's who were willing to crawl belly first over broken glass to make things right. For some of them it took a minute to get to that point, but that's the common denominator - that drive on the part of the ws.

For me, I wanted R so bad too. I think that's a pretty normal reaction for bs's. But as time went on, I realized that (for me) R didn't stand for Reconciliation, R stood for Reality. I wanted my comfortable known reality back, and unfortunately once the infidelity bell is rung there is no unringing it ever again. In those early days I was determined to 'cheatproof' my marriage - I would do all the things and be all the things and make him happy again so he wouldn't pick 'her' over me. Also a very normal reaction. But here's the thing - him choosing to cheat had not one diddly darn thing to do with me. It wasn't because I did or didn't do something, did or didn't say something, nope nope nope. His cheating was always and solely about HIM and his brokenness. I was collateral damage in his war with himself. Sucks to be relegated to that, but it's true.

Speaking from my own experience, I spent a lot of time in the first months after dday telling myself that he was R material when he very patently was not. SI helped a lot - because the other members here had no emotional investment in my wh, they had clearer filters around his behavior than I could at the time. Did some of what they say hurt? Yep. Did I feel judged? Yep. Did some of it piss me right off? Yep yep yep. But you know what? All these months and years out, they were right. They saw him clearer in those early days than I did. Saw me clearer too.

So with all that said I will close with this. Just from what little you shared, I certainly don't see that do-anything drive from your ws. I don't see that, at this moment, he is good R material. I see you falling into the ol pick-me two step (just like I did), and I know from personal experience that it will eventually take it's toll on you. I hope that he proves me wrong and that you are able to R, but if he can't do that, I hope that you get out of it and find your peace.

OP-

There are members here who have reconciled with their cheating H/Ws. This site was started by one of them, so there are people who have been able to reconcile with a cheating spouse. That does not mean that you are going to be able to do the same, and that is what some of the BS here are trying to warn you about.

This site, and space has people who have both reconciled and those that have walked away. What the people on this forum provide is a collective wisdom about what happens when someone cheats and how best to respond to that cheating so that you are not longer being cheated on actively, and to put a stop to this vile act. Its the collective wisdom, especially from those that have been here long enough that is so valuable to new members like you. So when you get the same repeated advice, I urge you to really think if you came here for advice, but seem to only want to listen to a certain set of advice that doesn't challenge your thinking.

Your cheating husband and situation is NOT unique. Everyone thinks they have a unique situation, but I'm here to tell you that others have had husbands go to jail, are ex felons, or active felons. YOu're not unique in that way. You saying that these women are after his money, and they don't even know the real him is just giving him an excuse. You don't need to be on here on this site for advice, you are an adult and can choose to live the life you want. But if you want to be challenged to look at the real truth, and to get out of infidelity like this site was meant to be, than you owe it to yourself and the collective wisdom here to at least see if what we are sharing is true. Cheating is not a unique thing, people usually follow on the same script when they cheat. People also follow a very similar script when they are a remorseful spouse who can provide for a safe reconciliation. If everyone here just told you want you wanted to hear, rather than from our experience, then why are you here?

I won't make a comment about your WH, bc i think enough has been said about him. But you, I would suggest IC work. Why are you waiting around 7 yrs for a felon. Why are you giving him so many chances that when he gets out of jail, he immediately cheats on you? You were hoping that finally, when he gets released that youll be one happy family, finally. But that didn't happen, and he immediately cheats on you, but instead of blaming him, you go and blame the other women. What makes you keep going back for more of this? I think you should find that out, b/c whether its with this dude or the next, YOU deserve more and better treatment after all that you've given up already.

EllieKMAS; No of course not, and neither is yours.... exactly my point this is a comment from another member. sorry but I am into helping people but at the same time not dragging down people because they are miserable. That being said I have been dealing with the fall of my marriage for a while no; of course I know nothing will go back to the way it was before...

HalfTime2017 : oh I did come here for advice but not to be judged. To have a member tellme my marriage is fake it a complete disrespect. If you can respect a comment like that; then that's you, but I will not be quiet. When I say its different I f of course do not mean the cheating... that's all the same pain. I am referring to assimilation back into society. Why are you waiting around 7 yrs for a felon... a question in regards to this shows judgement. Now if you ask why I waited for a man who I loved I can answer that. But to pick apart someones relationship and attack them because they shared a story on another thread is wrong. Sorry, but I will not be quiet in that aspect. To pass a comment that it was all for commissary is judgement. Funny thing is I never got down like that. I can see why some people just read here, because honestly misery loves company. I was hoping to find someone who is in the same boat as me who has been dealing with cheating for some time, but Instead when I say that I get judged because according to another member my marriage is fake... that's for the input.

If everyone here just told you want you wanted to hear, rather than from our experience, then why are you here? Again not asking for that. But when someone says they are not leaving and someone constantly is harping on they should and telling them their marriage is fake, that can spark arguments.,... if everyone here cannot see that, then I will not comment anymore. I do not need anymore negativity in my life. I am looking for a safe place to speak and see how people reconciled and how they no longer worry about cheating. thanks!

Dear OP,

you're hurting and in pain... I'm so sorry for you...

see how people reconciled and how they no longer worry about cheating.

HellFire did answer your question yesterday in her post summarizing the steps YOUR WS must take. Please read her post and hopefully it will sink and correlate with you.

As for "fake", "not real" Marriage: this is what YOU want to hear from people here. What is referred to is the True union between 2 people because you obviously read the description of Real Marriage/True Union. What is it based on? You seem to have your own criteria.

For me, for example, it means Honesty, Trust, Respect, Commitment, Care, Love, Sacrifice, Courage, Strength, Healthy mental and emotional state, Responsibility, Maturity, Morals, Awareness, grow together and learn from each other, etc. This is how I was able to R with my husband, and how WE R'ed. We now have the same Vision for all of the above. And not just thru words, but ACTIONS. I didn't force my H to change. It is just impossible. He realized for himself that he must change and grow, stop being the infant-man only concerned about his wants, that Real life is way more exciting and brings lots of satisfaction compared to the little world of fantasy. He understood that I would walk away and not play his game after I gave him the list of his character traits and qualities that finally came to the surface and said NO!. He realized that I won't be fighting for him as did OW's, and he had the audacity to tell me this crappy statement - BECAUSE it was nothing to fight for. And my husband is not even ex-convict. But the labeling really does not matter, because WS's are NOT unique. They use the same playbook, possess the same basic qualities, no matter their walks of life: rich, poor, somewhere in the middle, smart, stupid, intelligent, high-school or graduate degree, etc.

Gently, if you had all of the above, you would not be on this forum and would never be in the state of Destroyed and/or Broken. Who Destroyed you and WHO Broke you?

Why are you where you are?

ETA: after reading your response to your other thread re your therapist's WOW... I suggest that you mentally step aside and critically re-read your writings and responses. Seems like due to your WH's mad reaction when you try to have a conversation with him, you throw all your frustration and your unhappiness onto this forum blaming people who try to help you. Something is very wrong here... You're obviously welcome to vent, however, venting is quite different.

Good Luck!

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 11:15 PM, Friday, November 4th]

This website is named "Surviving Infidelity." Within this website are several different forums where people can post and respond and ask questions, etc. Each one has a clear description of its purpose. You've been posting in the "Just Found Out" forum which is where people first land where they find out about the cheating. At this point, most of them are trying to stop the pain and figure out what to do next. In most cases, they can't make a good decision about their marriage until they get out of infidelity and until the trauma is less unsettling.

There are several other forums for you to consider and perhaps there's a thread in "I Can Relate" that would be the kind of place you're looking for to have conversations with people in a situation similar to yours. "Reconciliation" and "General" might also have more of what you're looking for. And of course, we have a few forums just for fun and other non-infidelity related topics. Many of the people here have formed very close bonds and hang out together often. We feel peace with each other.

The main page also has "the healing forum" that has links to a wide variety of helpful links.

Gently, I must tell you that I doubt you will find a fellow traveler in the Just Found Out forum who has made a similar decision but you aren't the quitting kind so I encourage you to try posting in the forums mentioned above.

The other thing I wanted to sort of explain is our usual approach which is to help guide the person to get out of infidelity. I don't see where everyone is telling you to leave him and get a divorce; leaving someone doesn't have to lead to divorce. Living separately would allow each of you to work on your own issues, stop the pain, learn ways to cope, find out how you feel when you aren't together all the time, etc. I went back and read most of the posts and I truly don't see many people telling you to leave him as in leave him for good. But I do agree that you have been traumatized and it will be next to impossible for you to make the best decision for yourself while you're still being intimate with him, both in bed and with the little things that make up our daily lives when we're intertwined with another person. Leaving him would also tell him plain as day that him cheating on you will have consequences. You can disagree with me about this but I don't think he's gotten that message yet. And I don't believe you're out of infidelity yet because I think the next time he has an opportunity, he'll likely take advantage of it.

As for someone telling you you had a fake marriage, I cant find a post that says that. I did see one that said your marriage isn't real. Is that the one you're referring to? Because quite frankly, I agree with that premise because, regardless of his reason, your WH doesn't consider himself married. Marriage has fidelity as one of its main ingredients and from what you've explained, he doesn't really want to be monogamous. So no, I don't believe it's a real marriage with all the normal covenants of what most of us believe a real marriage to be. Naturally, you are free to disagree but I just wanted to explain what I think the poster meant vs. how you interpreted it. And you are also free to accept being in an open marriage if you want to. But some of us might get on you about why you're accepting that life in the hopes that you examine your motives and reasons and are doing it freely and not out of fear.

So I do hope you'll hang around, read some of the thousands of stories on the many thousands of pages on this website and even continue to go back and forth, knocking ideas around, agreeing when you agree and disagreeing when you don't. But I do hope you will come to understand that no one, not one person here, wants to bully you or push you to do something you don't want to do. But we will toss things at you and sometimes some of us toss better than others - always remember the written word is never as eloquent or clear as one spoken in person. Also remember that the members here are from all over the globe, from all walks of life, rich, poor, smart, not so smart, fat, skinny, etc. And to me, that fact is what makes this website so very, very special and I hope you'll come to love it as much as so many of us do.

Best of luck to you.

[This message edited by josiep at 11:07 PM, Friday, November 4th]

TruthIsPower: You and I come from different walks of life it is clear. You may consider your marriage as not real, but mine is. Now yes we have issues that we have to fix, but it does not mean its not real. As for the ex-convict comment; not sure where you think having a record matters about cheating.. again never stated that. I have stated about re-entry which is a stressor and not having life experiences. The act of cheating is wrong and he's not an idiot,, he knows right from wrong. to call someone an ex-convict is actually highly offensive, or to even call them a felon. Sorry but unless they are a POS (Piece of sh*t... rapist, sexual crimes against a child) we don't associate with those word... again different walks of life clearly.

Thanks for your backstory; glad you R. As we are working on it now.

"you throw all your frustration and your unhappiness onto this forum blaming people who try to help you" again no... I just don't appreciate your choice of words, you may have a fake marriage but I don't. Also when someone says they are not leaving to keep going back to the same thing is not advice. I am not the only one who sees these comments as destructive. My therapist also agrees... that being said different walks of life. I will speak to other members who actually have advice and do not judge. thanks

josiep: thank you for your kind words, however you have not seen the comments because they are on another thread. I was at first calm until a specific two individuals kept going back and forth with me on leave and how he will do it again. then I did not have a real marriage. Sorry but I do not appreciate those words whether written or verbal spoken. It does not seem like the type of advice or support that should be given. I have also consulted my therapist on these comments and read them... her words.. misery loves company... ignore them. Its not what you want so why press the issue. And your marriage is real maybe theirs was not. Of course we had an extended conversation about these comments and she understood where I was coming from and said if I keep getting negative responses to just stop posting. She also considered it a form of bullying. In my eyes, I do have a real marriage, one that just has issues. My husband does not constantly chase women... if that's how my things came off. it was 2 occasions; not fully ongoing affairs where I can say he had a double life... but I will agree to disagree and that's fine especially since your post is respectful. I appreciate you explaining some of the site as I am new so I have just been trying to figure it out. I will continue to read but may just stop sharing my situation since it seems there are members here who are disrespectful... again everyone should not sugarcoat things, but respect cultures and when someone says they have decided against something respect their decision instead of trying to tear someone down.

Everyone, there are a few new members who are hurting,and actually want our support and advice..who aren't spending their time here arguing,and insulting fellow members,and this site. I will bump up their threads,so we can help them.

BrokenAngel, I did read every single post in every thread you’ve posted. I know you’re hurting right now but it might soften your heart if you realize most of us who take the time to respond have also taken the time to read as much as we can by and about the poster.

We already went over why some of us are of the opinion that your marriage isn’t real but that’s a different thing entirely from believing it’s fake. We’ll never get 100% consensus on what makes a marriage real because we all have our own standards of what constitutes a real marriage. In my case, monogamy is a must and there’s no negotiating that. But there are people who don’t have the same belief so it’s really just a matter of opinion. I maintain that no one was trying to insult you and no one said it was a fake marriage where, for example, 2 people get married to get health insurance or a green card or to hide money from the IRS, a marriage not founded on love and not for the purpose of love or intending to spend the rest of their lives together.

Anyway, I again suggest you check out the other forums because your fellow posters in the Just Found Out forum are Betrayed partners who have not yet decided whether to reconcile or separate. You can really get a feel for things around here by looking back in some of the forums for the threads that got thousands of comments. We sometimes have a Betrayed partner who posts every single day for months and once the paralyzing pain of the betrayal begins to be less paralyzing (a wordster I am not), they move on to the General, Divorce or Reconciliation forum.

I don’t often even read in this forum because it’s still very difficult for me and I have to be in the right mood to come here. Some posters never read in this forum because they can’t handle it. Each forum has its own purpose and its own flavor and sometimes, its own set of dedicated posters.

If you look at the info on our individual posts, it shows when we joined Surviving Infidelity. I still feel like a newbie but I’m probably one of the old timers by now although there are many who have been here for as long as this website has existed. We are a very opinionated group, we’re all caring people and we’re all willing to help when and where we can.. And for the most part, few of us ever completely leave because it just becomes part of us. When I first came, I remember someone telling me "Welcome to the Club you never wanted to join but will never want to leave because where else can you get 50,000 new friends this quick?" Our numbers continue to grow and quite frankly, I think you’d be doing yourself a disservice by leaving. Surely out of 80,000 members you’ll find a few you can truly talk to.

Here’s another thought for you: Never in the history of mankind has anyone found a place where 100% of the people agreed with them or gave them the same exact opinion. As the poster, we leave it to you to be discerning and let the comments that resonate with you help guide you and put the others in the back of your mind for possible future consideration. Believe me, you can scold us all day long but every single one of us has walked through fire and it won't change what any of us believes. Nor will it change what we're brave enough and kind enough to share on an anonymous forum where we just want to help others who have suffered a trauma as awful as the betrayal of infidelity. To be clear, none of us makes any money from any of this, we give freely and with open hearts. Even if you decide you don't like us, I do hope you'll keep that in the back of your mind and know that you can come back any time and we'll be here for you. Anytime.

So I will leave you to your mission and wish you well. I do find it ironic that you're threatening to leave us because you don't like the opinions of a few and yet you refuse to entertain the notion of leaving the man who has exposed you to disease, financial ruin and told you straight out that he might cheat again.

We’re not saying leaving is your only choice but we are saying you must keep it on the table and consider all your options and their consequences. Are you prepared if it does happen again? Do you know your legal rights and what would likely happen to custody of your children? Around here we have a saying that Knowledge is Power. Well, I guess it’s a saying in other places, too but I digress. The point is, we always encourage a Betrayed person to learn all their options so they’re prepared in case they need to make a decision during an emotionally wrenching moment. We all hope it won’t happen to you but we all wish we’d been prepared when it happened to us so we might harp on it. So please stick around and please read in the other forums. There’s so much to learn and to ponder and sometimes some of us get into philosophical discussions (my personal favorite) and there are some very, very talented writers among us as well as the artistic type, the analytical type (bummer, that’s me but in the end, it served me well so I should be grateful but I wish I was more artistic and a better writer) etc. and every type imaginable. And there are many people here who have made lifetime friendships with other posters. There are even in-person get togethers now and then. They sometimes share pictures and you can just sense the joy and friendship they felt. I so wish I could attend one of them. We even have a Christmas card exchange (we remain anonymous and it’s totally voluntary).

In closing, please don’t refer to other posters as miserable losers or other disparaging language. If you don’t like someone’s opinion, consider that they might have been having a bad day or chose the wrong words to express what they’re saying or whatever and scroll on by. Or, of course, you might consider the option that they are correct and if you disagree, perhaps you could make a case for why.. Because, in addition to our other wonderful group qualities, we’re an open-minded lot and quite willing to entertain the idea that we’ve got it wrong.

Everyone, there are a few new members who are hurting,and actually want our support and advice..who aren't spending their time here arguing,and insulting fellow members,and this site. I will bump up their threads,so we can help them.

And HellFire is absolutely correct and I probably shouldn't have given this so much attention. My codependent leanings are obviously still strong and I let the need to defend our honor (as I perceived it) override my good sense.

To each their own. I am not the only one who perceives these comments as miserable. Once someone says something, it should be respected and not continued. I will continue to defend my point; marriage is a union, sometimes things occur that hurt the other person but it does not mean your marriage is fake. This is my opinion and to tell someone their marriage is not real is offensive, not sure how you do not see this. If everyone else would like to consider their marriage not real that is fine, but according to my standards it is real and it does not mean that I want an open marriage. I will continue to call it what it is. My therapist has even validated my views, so again to each their own. I wish to no longer discuss this topic as it is pointless when you are feeling judged. I will leave you with this... any man or women who has cheated has put their spouse in a situation where they could of contacted a disease.... sad but true. So maybe you guys should of all left... instead of harping on the new people to the site and telling them to just leave. Anyone could also go to jail or prison at one point in their life. no one knows why someone is in jail/prison or has been so to label them is wrong... Again different walks of life. I will not sit here and be quiet, if the advice is good I will take it. But if I feel judged then I will speak up; I do not believe in bullying, This is my point of view, just like you have your own....

I am done posting in here and will let everyone else have the last word of how they keep calling my husband a "felon/ Convict" (judgement) or that I do not have a real marriage (judgement). Or that I let his commissary roll (judgement especially when no one know what they are talking about; using the word commissary also shows you do not know about that walk of life.) . I will call it as I see it, if I feel attacked. This does not look like a safe place to share information so I will not be..as it screams judgement. And I will ignore your sense. Have a blessed day!

Dear OP,

there are two definitions of the word "real"

1. actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed.

"Julius Caesar was a real person"

2. (of a substance or thing) not imitation or artificial; genuine.

"the earring was presumably real gold"

You keep hearing definition #1. Sure, you have whatever document you have to prove that you're legally married to the other person.

Many people on this site are thriving (if it's possible, thru the process of reconciling with their WS) to achieve #2 or at least something close. However, there are certain conditions to R, and involvement of remorseful spouse who genuinely/authentically wants to do the heavy lifting to work on themselves. Actually, it is the work needed from both sides, of course. Bettering yourself and personal growth.

ETA: Look, you find the words offensive. But... for one reason or another, you don't find your real WH's behavior really offensive and abusive.

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 5:23 PM, Saturday, November 5th]

Lots of therapists recommend this site. So there's that.

Felon is an accurate term to describe someone convicted of a felony. My siblings are both felons. Many years ago,but it's what they both use when describing their past.

I know about commissary..see comment above.

I freaking apologized about the commissary comment..you want to keep harping on it.

Jfc. We are not the enemy. Work that out with your husband.

There's nothing more that can be said to you.

Be blessed.

I've read and re-read all of the posts and can't see that anyone called your marriage fake.

I do, however, find it very interesting that YOU seem so compelled to keep harping on it and insist that it was said.

Here's why.

Early on I remember being sooooooo pissed at some poster's responses to things I wrote about. How dare they say that! They don't know anything about MY marriage! They don't know my husband! Where the hell do they get off saying [fill in the blank]?!?

I think that kind of anger is very normal in those early days. Further I think it's easier in a lot of ways to direct that anger at strangers on the Internet, or ap's, or that bozo in front of you that's been driving with his blinker on for the last 6.3 miles. Because that anger has to go somewhere and (at least for me) it's scary to put it where it should go, which is straight on the ws. Because what if you get 'too' angry and they leave? What if you get too angry and they pick the ap? It's safe to rage at strangers on the interwebs because you have no emotional investment with them.

Looking back now with the benefit of hindsight, I can say that the vast majority of those comments that got under my skin and enraged me did so because they were poking right at the party of my subconscious that was thinking the same thing. It should have been comforting to know that others got it, but some days it just pissed me off. That anger was a defense mechanism for me to be able to avoid scary and discomforting thoughts. Maybe just spend some time with yourself and really look at WHY things are pissing you off so much. Could be very illuminating for you.

Edited for spelling.

[This message edited by EllieKMAS at 12:05 AM, Sunday, November 6th]